Spikes to support my speakers? What about my floor?

[danrhiggins]

I am about to receive a pair of speakers (Vienna Audio Mozarts) and I notice that they stand on very narrow legs (spikes) that would definitely get stuck in my soft American Cherry floor. What is the purpose of the spikes? Do I need them? Can I put something under them without undermining their purpose?

[krolfes]

Spikes are mainly used for carpet. They just go through the carpet and into the subfloor so that the speaker has a nice stable base. With your hardwood floors dont use the spikes since it is already a stable base. You should be able to remove the spikes and if not put something under the spikes so you dont hurt your floor.

[Florian]

I have a construction of a very good base, it takes some DIY and a pocket with around 200 bucks but it can almost completely absorb the full force of a 6.4ft tall speaker with a 80% radiating area!

If you PM me or mail me, i can send you the building plans and pictures of it.

-Flo

PS: For a sneak preview see my gallery, it works wonders on the sound. I have wooden floors and its a nono :-)

[NickWH]

You can use these to protect your wood floor from the spikes:

http://www.audiopoints.com/apcd2.html

[Woochifer]

With speakers, you generally don't want the cabinets to sit flat against the floor because they can transfer vibrations and resonances from the speaker into the floor. Spikes help to separate the speaker cabinet from the resonant floor surface, and provide stability with carpeted floors.

With my heavy surround speaker stands, I did not install the spikes because I also have wood floors. With those and my subwoofer, I simply used a set of rubber feet that you find at the hardware store. They are very stable and secure, with minimal contact area on the floor. So long as you get some kind of separation between the cabinet and the floor, you'll improve things quite a bit.

If you want to use the speaker spikes and protect wood floors from damage, there are a lot of products out there designed for this task. The simplest solution would entail placing coins underneath the spikes. But, with heavy speakers like those Viennas, the coins might not provide a stable enough surface (and if the speakers are heavy enough, the spikes can actually poke through a coin).

Sound Anchor makes these "conecoasters" which have a soft flat side that sits on the floor with a metal disc on top that has a predrilled notch to ensure that the spike does not move. Not sure how much they sell for, but knowing how Sound Anchor makes their stands, these conecoasters should be very durable and suitable to the task.

http://www.soundanchor.com/img195.gif
http://www.soundanchor.com/page20.html

A local audio store in my area machines their own metal disc floor protectors that they sell for about $4 each. Similar to the conecoasters, these metal discs have a notch on top that the spike sets into.

I believe that Audio Advisor and Parts Express sell something similar.

[Bernd]

The reason for using spikes are to stabilise the speaker and to prevent lateral movement. This is essential for dynamic impact and clarity; freedom for cabinets to oscillate even slightly allows the pressure waves generated by the drive units to react against the cabinet instead of portraying their message to the listener.

I would recommend to find the best performing position for your speakers (without the spikes installed), and then mark on the floor the spike positions and sink in flat cross head screws for the spikes to sit on. This will give you a rock solid foundation. And should you wish to move you can take the srews out and fill the tiny hole with a wood filler.
I did the same on my hardwood floor. I drilled through the wood and into the concrete below and sunk plugs and long cross head screws into it.
Those speakers will not move and will perform their best.

Peace

Bernd

[Woochifer]

The reason for using spikes are to stabilise the speaker and to prevent lateral movement. This is essential for dynamic impact and clarity; freedom for cabinets to oscillate even slightly allows the pressure waves generated by the drive units to react against the cabinet instead of portraying their message to the listener.

I would recommend to find the best performing position for your speakers (without the spikes installed), and then mark on the floor the spike positions and sink in flat cross head screws for the spikes to sit on. This will give you a rock solid foundation. And should you wish to move you can take the srews out and fill the tiny hole with a wood filler.
I did the same on my hardwood floor. I drilled through the wood and into the concrete below and sunk plugs and long cross head screws into it.
Those speakers will not move and will perform their best.

Peace

Bernd

Yikes! I would be VERY careful about poking any holes all the way through a wood floor! Wood floors are typically installed on top of a vapor barrier that prevents moisture from collecting underneath the floor. Breaching the barrier layer can cause the floor to expand and warp, and allow mildew to grow, especially if the floor sits on top of a crawl space.

A while ago, the cable TV installer drilled a hole through the floor when he should have installed a junction plate on the wall. Repairing that damage involved much more than just puttying the hole. The wood had to get pulled and reinstalled on both the floor and subfloor, with the moisture barrier reinstalled in that area.

[danrhiggins]

Thanks for all the input. Very helpful. Although I don't think I will be drilling holes in the floor! I will look for something to place under the spikes. Especially now that I understand their role.

[Bernd]

Wooch, was there any need for "Yikes!" to ram your point home? I am a sensitive soul and I get upset easily.
I have used sunken screws for years in different rooms all with treated hard wood floors and guess what-it never warped or grew fungus once. Also I've said that I set the Screws into the concrete (which should have the damp barrier included anyway) below the wooden floor. Never mentioned any crawl space. I live in a very damp country, my house stands on heavy clay (so no fast drainage) and my floors are perfectly flat, no movement, mold or anything else for that matter. It's a solid (not laminated board), pressure treated oak wood floor and that method I mentioned gives the best performance from your speakers. Why invest in something really good and then do a half hearted attempt to make it sound just acceptable.
The de-coupling from the floor is not the main issue (otherwise, why not suspend your speakers from the ceiling) presuming the speaker cabinet has been designed competently in the first place, i.e. accousticaly dead, and has not been used to artificially compliment cheap drive units or to create a "Company sound", it's a stabilising issue."If a speaker moves, even slightly, you compromise your investment." Danrhiggins posted two questions about spikes and I answered them both for him." It is of course up to him to decide what he wants to do with his investment.
As for using rubber that just dulls the sounds and kills dynamic impact stone dead. He has of course other options if he does not want or is unable to drill holes through the floor. One is Florians advice to build a box and fill it half with small stones and kiln dried sand toped with a slap of Granite or hardwood (the harder the better). Make small indentations in the Granite as resting place for your spikes or if you use the hardwood sink in cross heads into it and place your spikes into them.
Another option is to build the box as mentioned above and rest your speakers as an absolute minimum on Blue Tack. But you really need to start with RDC Cones and Cups or if you are feeling flush invest in Stillpoint Cones and Risers. It is of course mass that you're after, and nothing more heavy than your building. Ask yourself why many speaker manufacturers provide space in their products for mass loading with sand.
But please stay away from rubber or Tennis balls cut in half or other such quick fix solutions.
It takes effort to get the best out of your system and the more you put into it the more you get out.But as I always say each to their own. My experiences are certainly not gospel, just that - experiences.
Dan good luck with the Mozarts and I wish you many joyful musical hours.

Peace

Bernd

[Woochifer]

Wooch, was there any need for "Yikes!" to ram your point home? I am a sensitive soul and I get upset easily.

I would hope you've got a tongue solidly planted in the cheek when you say that. Believe me, "yikes" is a mild reaction compared to what my wife would say if I ever screwed holes into the floor to mount speakers! Sensitive soul? Upset easily? Mmmmkay!


I have used sunken screws for years in different rooms all with treated hard wood floors and guess what-it never warped or grew fungus once. Also I've said that I set the Screws into the concrete (which should have the damp barrier included anyway) below the wooden floor. Never mentioned any crawl space. I live in a very damp country, my house stands on heavy clay (so no fast drainage) and my floors are perfectly flat, no movement, mold or anything else for that matter. It's a solid (not laminated board), pressure treated oak wood floor and that method I mentioned gives the best performance from your speakers. Why invest in something really good and then do a half hearted attempt to make it sound just acceptable.

Well, I look at a hardwood floor as an investment as well. The wood floor in our house cost $10k+. After paying that much for flooring, last thing I would want are screw holes and putty fills anytime the speakers are moved or repositioned (and I've done that multiple times in the time I've had my current system). Our flooring contractor was the one who told us not to breach the vapor barrier by poking holes through the flooring. In his experience, even small holes can expand into major problems underneath (not that it matters to him, since he makes big money repairing damaged floors), and just filling them with putty is an inadequate prevention measure. After the cable TV installer drilled that hole in our floor, the cost of repairing the floor, barrier, and subfloor for that one drill hole totaled $300 (bill was promptly sent to the cable company for reimbursement). I only mentioned crawl spaces because a lot of us in the U.S. have them underneath our houses.


The de-coupling from the floor is not the main issue (otherwise, why not suspend your speakers from the ceiling) presuming the speaker cabinet has been designed competently in the first place, i.e. accousticaly dead, and has not been used to artificially compliment cheap drive units or to create a "Company sound", it's a stabilising issue."If a speaker moves, even slightly, you compromise your investment." Danrhiggins posted two questions about spikes and I answered them both for him." It is of course up to him to decide what he wants to do with his investment.

In my experience, the decoupling from the floor (or any reverberant surface) is the main issue, especially if we're talking about a floorstanding speaker. When boxy floorstanders were the norm, sitting them flat against a wood floor would create all kinds of reverberations and distortions. I used the old Mod Squad Tip Toes (the first isolating product specifically made for speakers) and they created a decent amount of separation from the floor, and the improvement in the sound quality was huge. But, friends of mine used low profile pedestals or created their own home made isolators out of coat hangers, rubber feet, and even cardboard tubes. Guess what, they also got big improvements in the sound quality. The common denominator was simply creating the separation from the floor or bookshelf.

I will agree that maximum stability is ideal for sound quality as well as more practical reasons such as keeping speakers from wobbling or tipping over. But, as far as sound quality improvement goes, a lot of the work is already done once you keep the speaker from maintaining a flat contact against the floor surface.


As for using rubber that just dulls the sounds and kills dynamic impact stone dead.

Have you ever tried using rubber feet and compared that with floor spikes? Saying that rubber feet "dulls the sound and kills dynamic impact stone dead" is quite a stretch IMO. When I got my Studio 20s, I temporarily placed them on a pair of spiked speaker stands until I could find a good pair of taller stands capable of supporting about 30 lbs. Once I got my tall stands, I chose to go with rubber feet to protect the floor partly because the spikes they came with were a pain to level out, and even more so because the stands each weigh 65 lbs. Aside from the huge improvement in the surround imaging that came from having the speakers elevated to 38" for music and 45" for movies, I did not notice any dulling effect or difference whatsoever in the dynamic impact. Far from "stone dead" killed anyway.


He has of course other options if he does not want or is unable to drill holes through the floor. One is Florians advice to build a box and fill it half with small stones and kiln dried sand toped with a slap of Granite or hardwood (the harder the better). Make small indentations in the Granite as resting place for your spikes or if you use the hardwood sink in cross heads into it and place your spikes into them.
Another option is to build the box as mentioned above and rest your speakers as an absolute minimum on Blue Tack. But you really need to start with RDC Cones and Cups or if you are feeling flush invest in Stillpoint Cones and Risers.

Or the poster can simply use a floor protecting product among the ones that have already been suggested.

His question was pretty simple -- should he use the spikes that come with his new speakers, and if he chooses to use the spikes, are there ways to protect a wood floor? Short answer: yes, use the spikes, and yes, there are ways to protect the floor. He's already said that he does not want to drill holes in his floor, which leaves the floor protector options.

[Bernd]

Oh yes, it's very firmly planted.You made some valid points, but I think we just have to agree to disagree on several. And that is good.
I have used rubber and many other isolating devices and my findings differ from yours. So I reckon we just hear things in a different way.
The good thing is that danrhiggins has now several points of advice so he can decide how far he want's to go. And I am sure that is part of the purpose of this forum.
Have a good sunday

Peace

Bernd:16:

[danrhiggins]

Well, this is one of those welcome occasions where the designer/supplier considered the concerns of their customers. When we opened the box/packaging for the speakers we not only found the spike platforms but also a small metal disk for each of the eight spikes. The disks are about the size of a penny with a small depression in the middle for the point of the spike. Black to match the spike platform. I simply attached a small round piece of felt (designed for protecting wood floors from furniture available at any hardware store) to the bottom of the disk and I was good to go. Just need to be careful when moving the speakers as the spikes are not permanently attached.

And by the way, the speakers sound and look great. Even match the floor!

Thanks again for all the advice.

[minye]

I just use 2 vinyl tiles. They cost less than $2 but work well.

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0335947093.1142375311@ @@@&BV_EngineID=ccdladdhfggejglcgelceffdfgidgim.0&CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=misc/searchResults.jsp&MID=9876&N=2984+5009&pos=n10