Recording and Pressing Quality

[Bernd]

Has anybody noticed the trend in declining recording and pressing quality. I reckon that at least 2 out of every 3 new releases I buy, suffer from that. Poor recording and really poor pressing quality. Warps, crackle even scratches, lack of dynamics and recording levels set, so we get distortion. What is happening?
Van Morrisons-Magic Time is a prime example. Good (not great) recording, but one of the worst pressings lacking complete quality controll. I am on my third copy (even layed out for the 180g pressing) and it's just insulting to offer something that poor for full price.
Things can only get better.

Bernd

[BRANDONH]

Has anybody noticed the trend in declining recording and pressing quality. I reckon that at least 2 out of every 3 new releases I buy, suffer from that. Poor recording and really poor pressing quality. Warps, crackle even scratches, lack of dynamics and recording levels set, so we get distortion. What is happening?
Van Morrisons-Magic Time is a prime example. Good (not great) recording, but one of the worst pressings lacking complete quality controll. I am on my third copy (even layed out for the 180g pressing) and it's just insulting to offer something that poor for full price.
Things can only get better.

Bernd
I have been having very good luck even my Picture discs have been good lately.
Now my Manson Lest We Forget 2 lp was poor in most every department warps, crackle all pretty much what you mentiond above.
Just got in the remastered The Guess Who American but have not played it yet I'll let you know how it sounds.
http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/4549/guesswho2it.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[JohnMichael]

I wish I had access to new vinyl. The audio dealer in my town that sold vinyl shut down so I have to order it. Some of what I have ordered and been shipped were a little warped from the temperatures. Of course pressing quality variations has always plagued vinyl but it should not be a problem these days when you are paying premium prices and the production runs are smaller.

[Woochifer]

Have you taken note of any "trends" regarding the types of LPs that you buy, since that will dicate a lot of what you perceive as poor recording quality? In general, newer recordings are optimized for CD transfer, with the LP almost an afterthought, and as such, with newer pop recordings, the LP version can sound pretty lousy. When the CD format was first introduced, this situation was reversed, with everything optimized around the LP format and plenty of CDs getting comparatively bad transfers.

Also, when you're talking about reissues of 70s rock recordings, then often, the recording quality was not that great to begin with, and won't sound good no matter what format you use. Do you have any other LP or CD versions that Van Morrison album for comparison?

Although my vinyl purchases have dwindled in recent years, the pressing quality of almost all of the LPs I've bought over the past 10 years has been superior to the mass produced plats that came flying out of pressing plants by the late-70s.

For the prices that new LPs fetch nowadays and with their much smaller production runs, it's absolutely inexcusable for bad pressings. Unfortunately, pops and clicks are just a fact of life, even with a high quality pressing. Scratches can occur just by someone mishandling the LP during packaging, and warps can develop just thru normal shipping and handling channels.

But, your comments about "lack of dynamics and recording levels set" leading to distortion -- I'm not sure where you're going with that. Keep in mind that LPs have an upper limit on how much dynamic range they can handle before the tonearms/stylii start to mistrack (higher end tonearms and high compliance cartridges can handle more dynamic range, but the mastering engineers had to make sure that a wide range of setups could track properly), so it was normal practice to apply dynamic range compression during the mastering and/or mixing stage.

If you hear distortion, it could be that the levels were set too high, or not enough compression was used, or your setup is not optimal, or the pressing house used a worn stamper (the resultant groove distortion is typically most audible at the end of a side). Back in the vinyl heyday, I returned probably close to 10% of the albums I purchased because of defects -- excessive surface noise, warps, groove distortion, off-center pressings, misaligned labels, etc. And the overall quality of U.S. pressings was generally mediocre, and in my experience, MCA/Universal especially bad for using noisy recycled vinyl and indifferent quality control.

[Bernd]

Hi,

Well made points. I don't found that most 70's recording were bad. I have many 100s of recordings from that time and most of them sound great. The 80's were terrible for quality control. You mentioned already one record company culprit I also found that most of A&Ms output left a lot to be desired.

I am more concerned with the lack of Quality on pressings over recordings, also the recording process apears to have taken a few steps backwards also.
For instance-I have Tom Petty's-Wildflower on CD and Vinyl. On Cd it distorts at the peaks yet at vinyl it plays brilliantly full of vigour and detail.
On the other hand the Johnny Cash recording of American IV, is the complete opposite.It could be because Rick Rubin had a hand in both. What it doesn't explain, is why modern pressings are very poor.
As for optimising my TT play back. I think that's covered (been doing it since th 70s). It tracks all the tracks on the Hi Fi News Test record.Also nothing is more easy then to play a record incorectly.
Yet if you take an artist like Neil Young. I bought both his latest offerings (Prarie Wind and Greatest Hits) on Vinyl (200g) and CD and to my ears the Vinyl is far better, but more to the point, the vinyl is prestine, flat and noise free. Same with "Greg Brown-The Poet Game".
So it can be done.But when I get an "audiophile" recording of Van Morrisons latest and it sounds like it comes from a charity shop then there is something wrong.
Maybe as the playback equipment becomes better more faults are being layed bare, but that would not explain the lack of quality in the pressing.
And yes new recording methods and artists seem often to optimise for digital playback.

Bernd

[BRANDONH]

Has anybody noticed the trend in declining recording and pressing quality. I reckon that at least 2 out of every 3 new releases I buy, suffer from that. Poor recording and really poor pressing quality. Warps, crackle even scratches, lack of dynamics and recording levels set, so we get distortion. What is happening?
Van Morrisons-Magic Time is a prime example. Good (not great) recording, but one of the worst pressings lacking complete quality controll. I am on my third copy (even layed out for the 180g pressing) and it's just insulting to offer something that poor for full price.
Things can only get better.

Bernd

Received the Re-Issue of
American Woman by The Guess Who

CLICK HERE (http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=28166)

here is what they said about the record:
Cisco continues its mission of bringing great records to the public with breathtaking improvements in sound. Where the original LP (and CD reissues) of The Guess Who's American Woman are thin, grainy and lacking in bottom-end, Kevin Gray and Robert Pincus have brought out the original master tapes wide dynamics, rich bass extension and a clarity for this highly-anticipated reissue. The results will blow your mind. As for the music, the title pretty much speaks for itself. The certified Gold Record American Woman includes three Top 40 singles with "No Time," "No Sugar Tonight" and the ubiquitous title track.

Here Is what I say:
The song Talisman is worth the price of the record alone.
It felt as if they were sitting right in my living room stunning realism and the 180 gram vinyl was flat with a little rise but was not audible and was dead silent this is one of the best remasters I believe I have ever heard.
I could easily say that this is reference material if you want to show off your Record Player this will do the trick.

This is a very limited vinyl pressing so if you want a copy you had better hurry!!
see click here above.

[Woochifer]

Hi,

Well made points. I don't found that most 70's recording were bad. I have many 100s of recordings from that time and most of them sound great. The 80's were terrible for quality control. You mentioned already one record company culprit I also found that most of A&Ms output left a lot to be desired.

I thought that by the mid-80s, the record companies had turned things around with the pressing quality -- much better situation than existed in the late-70s. Unfortunately, by the time the record companies started producing reasonably decent pressings again, the LP format was already on its way out. After A&M changed to a different vinyl formulation, I thought their pressing quality improved dramatically (you can tell which ones use this by holding the LP up to the light -- their revised vinyl was slightly transparent).


I am more concerned with the lack of Quality on pressings over recordings, also the recording process apears to have taken a few steps backwards also.
For instance-I have Tom Petty's-Wildflower on CD and Vinyl. On Cd it distorts at the peaks yet at vinyl it plays brilliantly full of vigour and detail.
On the other hand the Johnny Cash recording of American IV, is the complete opposite.It could be because Rick Rubin had a hand in both. What it doesn't explain, is why modern pressings are very poor.

By "modern pressings" are you referring to the pressings of newer recordings or reissues of older ones? With the limited number of LPs I've bought over the past 10 years or so, I've not noticed any decline in pressing quality. If anything, it's better with the work getting farmed out to specialty pressing plants like RTI than it was when the major record companies did their own pressings.

In general, with rock recordings from the last 15 or so years that I've compared on both vinyl and CD, the CD has almost always sounded better IMO. (exceptions would be the few that are mastered at such high levels that distortion's audible) This goes back to the shifts that have occurred in the recording studios since the introduction of the CD. The vinyl playback is an afterthought, because it's a marginal market.

Simple fact is that newer pop recordings are optimized for digital playback with higher dynamic range, and mixed and mastered to maximize sound quality on the typical playback systems that listeners generally use. Nowadays, the typical playback will occur on mobile system, MP3 players, computer speakers, and sub/sat systems. But, this is no different than how most 70s classic rock was mixed and mastered for optimal sound quality on the big woofered JBL-style speakers that dominated the market at that time.


Yet if you take an artist like Neil Young. I bought both his latest offerings (Prarie Wind and Greatest Hits) on Vinyl (200g) and CD and to my ears the Vinyl is far better, but more to the point, the vinyl is prestine, flat and noise free. Same with "Greg Brown-The Poet Game".

Try out the 96/24 PCM version of Young's Greatest Hits album. That's about as vibrant and lifelike a digital transfer of a vintage recording as I've heard. Keep in mind that Neil Young himself is a huge proponent of high res digital, and has pushed to have his backcatalog issued not only on DVD-A, but open 96/24 PCM discs as well that can be played back through any DVD player.


So it can be done.But when I get an "audiophile" recording of Van Morrisons latest and it sounds like it comes from a charity shop then there is something wrong.
Maybe as the playback equipment becomes better more faults are being layed bare, but that would not explain the lack of quality in the pressing.

You're focusing quite a bit of energy on that Van Morrison album. But, I'm not sure thatone bad press run for a specific album points to a general trend. Bad pressings are nothing new. That was the norm back in the vinyl heyday, and if buyers get bad QC on 180g and 200g pressings, that's unfortunate. But, it wouldn't be any different than when vinyl was the dominant format, and the record companies were cranking out substandard pressings by the millions. The only difference is that LPs now cost a lot more than CDs, and the recording chain on newer recordings is no longer optimized for vinyl.

[Bernd]

I am mainly talking about newer releases but also some re-issues. The quality of the Vinyl on new issues I find in the main poor, like an afterthought. When I look at some 30 year old records I have they shine and sparkle and yet the new album from "British Sea Power, The Editors and The Rolling Stones", looks dull and is very noisy.
Yes of course there were always quality issues in the past, but a lower production run is the reason I focus so much on the Van Morrison album. I own all his output on CD and Vinyl and "Magic Time" I purchased 3 times over a period of 6 months, the last copy being the 180 g, and the vinyl and pressing quality is just awful on all three.
I am just pleased I have a large collection and don't rely too much on re-issues.
The Roy Orbison-Greatest hits Audiophile pressing is absolutly wonderful in every way. Granted it was expensive but it is possible.
I am not sure about Neil Young champion digital. Never read anything to that effect. Of course that does not mean that it didn't happen.
I take your point aswell that we have many outstanding recordings in both media now and long may it continue. I just object to the careless attitude in producing the records and sometimes wonder how many recording artists actually care for the finished sound quality, or get involved in the process.
I am very pleased for you that your experience with the quality is a good one. Maybe I was just unlucky. Who knows?

Bernd

[SlumpBuster]

I look at three factors before buying a new release on vinyl. The first is whether this is an Artist that specifically wanted this record on vinyl, or was it an executive level decision? The second, did the Artist act as a producer? If so, then they can have a heavy hand in mastering and quality control.

Examples of recent Artist level and production decision:

1. The White Stripes - Elephant and Get Behind Me Satan. Wonderful recordings and pressings.
2. Oasis - Don't Believe the Truth.

The third thing I look for is the double LP split. Did they take an album that could fit on one LP and split it into two? Or did they try to cram the whole thing on one LP. The douple LP split can allow for some brilliant mastering. A good 15 minute per side and there is plenty of room to breathe.

The trifecta was hit recently with Gwen Stefani's L.A.M.B. Vinyl friendly artist, co-produced, split LP. It is a beautifully produced, recorded and mastered record. I have it on LP and CD and even my wife notices the difference with the LP.

[Bernd]

I totally agree with the double split LP. Every one of mine sounds superb. Good Point.

Peace

Bernd