Complete Vinyl setup for under $800? (Speakers and all) [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

PDA

View Full Version : Complete Vinyl setup for under $800? (Speakers and all)



Moonlit Matt
02-21-2006, 05:59 PM
I realize that this may just be dreaming at this point, but I have some advice to ask for.

I would like to get a small room (15x20) in my house set up with equipment to listen to all my vinyl.

For around $800.

My receiver just broke, so what I will need is:

Possibly a new turntable: I have an older DJ table (Gemini XL-300). Maybe a MMF 2.1 or a Goldring?

Speakers:
JBL Northridge E80? (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000E6S10/sr=1-1/qid=1140338000/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-2206824-5340604?%5Fencoding=UTF8)

Receiver:
ONKYO TX 8011 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00067KQLK/ref=pd_sbs_e_2/103-2206824-5340604?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=172282)

ONKYO TX 8211 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005T3WC/sr=8-5/qid=1140396816/ref=pd_bbs_5/103-2206824-5340604?%5Fencoding=UTF8)

I know it's tough! But if any forum can do it, it's this one. Thanks!

N. Abstentia
02-21-2006, 06:18 PM
Personally I think you can do much better with an integrated instead of a receiver..something like this one:
http://audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=CAMB540AS&product_name=Azur%20540A%20Integrated%20Amplifier

But you'll need either a line level turntable or you'll need to add your own phono stage..which is nice because you're not limited by the phono stage that way.

As far as speakers..I KNOW you can do better. I'm just not a fan of modern JBL jun...err....equipment. If you want floorstanders, check these out (which are in the same general price range as those JBL's)

http://audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=ATHASF2%2E2&product_name=F2%2E2%20Speakers%20Black,%20Pair

I'll let someone else handle the turntable, but I've read both the ones you mentioned are good tables (they are the same thing with different cartridges) but with both a new cartridge makes a huge difference. Personally I despise fully manual tables so I don't have any hands on with those!

Moonlit Matt
02-21-2006, 06:41 PM
Thanks for the reply!

I am looking for speakers that can be warm, and not to analitical sounding. I like something musical, not nessicarily 100% accurate.

Those speakers your pointed out look pretty nice though!

I was looking at the floor speakers because I'm worried that bookshelf speakers won't have enough low end, and if I add a sub the crossover will get too muddy.

Are those Athenas too big for my small room?

Moonlit Matt
02-22-2006, 01:03 AM
What about these guys? (i know my budget is slowly going up =P)

Dali Blue 3003 (http://www.audiovisionsf.com/?page=detail&product_id=789)

Bernd
02-22-2006, 04:01 AM
What about these guys? (i know my budget is slowly going up =P)

Dali Blue 3003 (http://www.audiovisionsf.com/?page=detail&product_id=789)

Hi and welcome,

Dali make some fine speakers. They would be on my list.

Bernd

SlumpBuster
02-22-2006, 03:40 PM
There are not too many good two channel receivers left. So most people will steer you towards and integrated. In this price range, I am aware of only one 2 channel reciever that can match the integrated already suggested, the Yamaha RX-777 You'll also see some Denons suggested on the Vanns site. Take a look at those. I don't like them though.
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/538599412?v_c=CNET
Nice and solid. It will last you twenty years.

As far as Turntables go, I'll give you the advice I've given others. And I say this in all seriousness If you've never had a fully manual table before, think about your listening habits. If you drink (or get high) while listening, manual tables can be unforgiving. You don't want to wake up the next morning to find you left the thing spinning all night, either with or without the arm in its rest.

In this price range you've already identified two of the nicest manual tables. However, I think AT makes a very underated fully automatic technics clone:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00012EYNG/ref=nosim/104-4577829-0750354?n=172282
This table is a beast that would not be out of place with an upgraged $400 goldring cart on it later.

ericl
02-22-2006, 04:30 PM
FUn Post,

I used to build systems like this all the time for friends. Look for a 70's vintage receiver or integrated amp from Marantz, Yamaha, Sansui, Harman Kardon, etc in good condition, preferably already serviced by a tech. Buy a used technics sl1200 (preferably one that hasn't been dj'd on). Speakers, I don't know, that's a more personal choice, but you have tons of choices.

Good luck!

Geoffcin
02-22-2006, 04:54 PM
What about these guys? (i know my budget is slowly going up =P)

Dali Blue 3003 (http://www.audiovisionsf.com/?page=detail&product_id=789)

In that case things can get very interesting.

First thing I would recommend is to go used. You can get some great deals on vintage electronics, and some good deals on lightly used speakers. My favorite place to check is
Audiogon.com. Ebay is also a good bet for vintage electronics, but I would be wary if it's not a owner selling the piece. There's a lot of "drop shops" that sell all kinds of old stuff, and they never check what's being sold.

Moonlit Matt
02-22-2006, 06:13 PM
Thanks for the info/links guys!
I've decided to first by the speakers/receiver and then spring for a bit more expensive turntable early next month.

Do you guys really think that a nice direct drive table could be good for me? I don't want something that is going to fall apart from non-delicate use. I want something sturdy that can hold up. I'm thinking either that AT table mentioned above, or a Technics sl1200.

There is just WAY too much stuff out there. And it's much to difficult to track some of the options down in a store here so I can actually listen to them. I hate just going on educated-luck and buying something "blind"... (which is why sometimes I'm absolutely frightened of purchasing used when I haven't actually held the product)

Any other thoughts on the Dali 3003? They seem like they would be a good fit for a small room. I'm a bit worried about the bass being overly weak (just a hunch), but I found a GREAT deal on them.

ONLY 399.99!!!
http://canadianhifi.com/products/detailed/924.htm

Should I jump on this deal?

Also, what is your take on this Harman Kardon HK3480 Stereo Receiver?
It's only $262 here:
HERE (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001FI49I/sr=8-1/qid=1140660601/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-2206824-5340604?%5Fencoding=UTF8)

Man I am getting excited and antsy! I haven't had music in this room for a few months now (besides my headphones/iriver) and it's starting the wear on me.

www.records
02-22-2006, 09:57 PM
I would suggest you re-read ericl #7 post. He made an excellent suggestion that if followed will do you well in your price range.

For speakers, I would suggest you get out and try to listen to some. They are voiced differently, so it is a very personal thing in choosing what sounds good to you. I would also take a good look at some of the better vintage speakers. In your price range they might give you deeper bass that you are interested in. They normally will have larger drivers, which usually will mean they are capable of moving more air, which is what good bass requires. You mentioned above the HK3480 for $262. In my opinion, a vintage HK 730 would be much better and you should be able to find a nice one for $100.

If I was you, what I would be a good bang for the buck system would be:

HK 730 receiver (has a built in phono amp, and AM/FM $100
Klipsch Cornwalls (very efficient with good bass) $500
Technics SL1200 $250 used

You can also buy a new 1200's online for $399

I think this system would rock your world.

Anyway, thats what I would do.

Moonlit Matt
02-22-2006, 10:08 PM
If I was you, what I would be a good bang for the buck system would be:

HK 730 receiver (has a built in phono amp, and AM/FM $100
Klipsch Cornwalls (very efficient with good bass) $500
Technics SL1200 $250 used

You can also buy a new 1200's online for $399

I think this system would rock your world.

Anyway, thats what I would do.

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll have to look into that combo. =)

I'm always paranoid about buying used though.

Moonlit Matt
02-23-2006, 08:11 PM
Well, I listened to some Athena f2.2 s today and I'm going to get them.
http://audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=ATHASF2%2E2&product_name=F2%2E2%20Speakers%20Black,%20Pair

Also, I'm going to go with a Technics 1200 table.

Is there a receiver or amp that would pair well with these? Something that will douns good with pretty much any music.

Robb
02-24-2006, 08:13 AM
This table is a beast that would not be out of place with an upgraged $400 goldring cart on it later.[/QUOTE]


Hello Slumpbuster,

I was very curious as to what compels you to feel this way, as I happen to have that very turntable which I purchased last summer, and am extremely pleased with it. I am always looking for ways to enhance my system's sound without buying new equipment, but a cartridge upgrade is not something that has occurred to me. Every thing I have is fairly old, and that, for some reason, is part of the appeal for me. I am waiting on isolation feet to arrive as I have read that that will make a very noticeable difference for not much money. I have a 1980ish SAE mark 31b power amp, Hafler se 100 preamp circa 1990, and my speakers are DCM Timeframe 250's, also circa 1990 or so. Cables by Kimber, Blue Jean, and Audioquest (all entry level priced). Thanks for any knowledge or suggestions you might feel like sharing. Cheers!

Moonlit Matt
02-24-2006, 03:53 PM
I listened to the f2.2s again today and I'm still looking for a good amp for them. I have now set my amp/receiver budget at around $300. I would like to get something that won't get too crispy in the high end and will sound good with rock and hip-hop along with the jazz and country. Any thoughts?

SlumpBuster
02-24-2006, 07:49 PM
Hello Slumpbuster,
I was very curious as to what compels you to feel this way, as I happen to have that very turntable which I purchased last summer, and am extremely pleased with it. I am always looking for ways to enhance my system's sound without buying new equipment, but a cartridge upgrade is not something that has occurred to me.


Like I said, the AT 120 is a Technics 1200 clone. Although no one shouts it from roof tops, the highly sought after 1200 is a very old design. It is now some thirty years old.
"Cloning" is a manufacturing trick of selling the same product under different branding, or licensing to different manufactures, and selling the same thing at different price points. You see it in all sorts of manufacturing, including turn tables. NAD clones Rega. Project and Music Hall clone various parts. Goldring also gets in on some of that action. AT and Rek-o-Kut clone Technics, which itself is just Panasonic. Countless other manufactures have sold "mods" of the 1200 over the last three decades. Outside of audio, Mitsubishi and Dodge clone each other through joint ventures. Toyota and GM do it. ect. ect. Hell, some manufactures clone themselves. HP will make two identical photocopiers, but install a chip in one that actually slows it down. The will sell the slowed down one for $100 and the regular one for $350.

I would bet my lunch money that the same machines that built 1200s in 1978 are the very same machines building 1200s today. There is simply no overhead to those things. They sell themselves, DJ culture was the best advertising in a digital world, and the factories are paid for. The 1200s at this point must be pure profit. And, that is probably why they were one that survived the CD revolution. Somewhere along the lines, Panasonic (Technics) began licensing out the 1200 to other manufactures, or lost the exclusive right to retail something they never even produced in the first place. I don't know. The fact is alot of electronics are made by companies we never heard of and then licensed for retail to "Name Brand" companies.

This is why Chinese companies were bidding for bankrupt Maytag. They wanted the brand name.
The LG brand that suddenly showed up and Bestbuy and Home Depot is really a Chinese company. LG stands for Lucky Goldstar. They didn't just start making refrigerators and televisions. They always made refrigerators and televisions. They just finally realized they didn't need an American or Japanese middleman to sell them.

So back to your AT turntable. It would be silly to put an upgraded cart on a plastic piece of crap table. But the AT 120 is not plastic or crap. It is a $600 Technics 1200 selling for $200 including an onboard preamp and factory installed cartridge. I think a serious cartridge would be right at home on it.

Robb
02-25-2006, 05:44 AM
Like I said, the AT 120 is a Technics 1200 clone. Although no one shouts it from roof tops, the highly sought after 1200 is a very old design. It is now some thirty years old.
"Cloning" is a manufacturing trick of selling the same product under different branding, or licensing to different manufactures, and selling the same thing at different price points. You see it in all sorts of manufacturing, including turn tables. NAD clones Rega. Project and Music Hall clone various parts. Goldring also gets in on some of that action. AT and Rek-o-Kut clone Technics, which itself is just Panasonic. Countless other manufactures have sold "mods" of the 1200 over the last three decades. Outside of audio, Mitsubishi and Dodge clone each other through joint ventures. Toyota and GM do it. ect. ect. Hell, some manufactures clone themselves. HP will make two identical photocopiers, but install a chip in one that actually slows it down. The will sell the slowed down one for $100 and the regular one for $350.

I would bet my lunch money that the same machines that built 1200s in 1978 are the very same machines building 1200s today. There is simply no overhead to those things. They sell themselves, DJ culture was the best advertising in a digital world, and the factories are paid for. The 1200s at this point must be pure profit. And, that is probably why they were one that survived the CD revolution. Somewhere along the lines, Panasonic (Technics) began licensing out the 1200 to other manufactures, or lost the exclusive right to retail something they never even produced in the first place. I don't know. The fact is alot of electronics are made by companies we never heard of and then licensed for retail to "Name Brand" companies.

This is why Chinese companies were bidding for bankrupt Maytag. They wanted the brand name.
The LG brand that suddenly showed up and Bestbuy and Home Depot is really a Chinese company. LG stands for Lucky Goldstar. They didn't just start making refrigerators and televisions. They always made refrigerators and televisions. They just finally realized they didn't need an American or Japanese middleman to sell them.

So back to your AT turntable. It would be silly to put an upgraded cart on a plastic piece of crap table. But the AT 120 is not plastic or crap. It is a $600 Technics 1200 selling for $200 including an onboard preamp and factory installed cartridge. I think a serious cartridge would be right at home on it.

Thanks for the quick and thoughtful response, Slumpbuster. Well, that is very interesting. So now begins my search - I must admit, I don't know much about cartridges as to what to think about or look for. I realize there are moving magnet and moving coil types, and, like anything else, a wide variation in prices. Given the older equipment I am using and my desire to keep it as is, what might be a sensible starting point? Thanks again for your input.

SlumpBuster
02-25-2006, 03:15 PM
Matt: I renew my vote for the RX-777 or the Cambrige integrated recommended by N. Absentia.

Robb start here:

http://www.needledoctor.com/s.nl;jsessionid=ac112b801f438aee7f7ec8194443b51cc7 2f674be4d7.e3eTaxiPc3mTe34MbxmLbhiQaNj0n6jAmljGr5X DqQLvpAe?sc=2&category=2

I would look at the Goldring 1000 line or the Ortofon OM line. Both are a series of carts that you can upgrade the stylus. In other words the only difference on a Goldring 1012 and 1042 is the stylus, which is interchangable. You can start with the 1012 and if you like it and want more, just upgrade to the 1042 (or 1022 ect) stylus using the cart that came with the 1012.

Stay away from any MC or Moving Coil cartridges. They require a special phono preamp, are expensive, and don't come with replacable needles.

Moonlit Matt
02-25-2006, 03:45 PM
Thanks Slump. I'd rather stick to purely 2 channel sound for now, but thanks for the recommendation! I'll be getting a new 5.1 soon and I've already put that Yamaha on the list. =)

As for the Cambridge Audio Azur 540a, I would need to purchase a phono stage, and some interconnects, and this easily drives the price up to $400. Is it worth it?

Robb
02-26-2006, 02:04 AM
Thanks Slumpbuster

SlumpBuster
02-26-2006, 08:38 AM
Matt. The RX -777 is only two channel. Comes with a good phono stage.
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/receivers/RX777.htm

It has some nicer features than the comparable Denons, H/Ks, Marantz's including mechanical motor driven source selection. In other words its got a high quality knob you have to turn to select a source vs. a button that triggers an electric switch. Yet is still remote control driven by a motor. Also, the tuner section is very respectable and not just an after thought like on many others.

The Cambridge Azur is nice, but I think the Yammie is in the next class. Based on the speakers you've been looking at and your stated goal, I think if your budget can handle the 777 it will outclass the Azur and any of the comparable Japanese brand receivers. Many people on these forums will claim and integrated is always better than a reciever. I simply don't think that is true. Not in this price range at least.

Finally, the Yammie 777 is being replaced by the 797, which is not the same, so you can get the 777 well below retail and even street price. Look around at stereo shops, you should be able to find one for a song.

Moonlit Matt
02-26-2006, 11:21 AM
Matt. The RX -777 is only two channel. Comes with a good phono stage.
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/receivers/RX777.htm


Hot damn you are right. (Slaps self in face) I must have made a typo while looking for reviews and found review for the V757 not the RX 777. Also, there seems to be a mislabeled product page for the 777 at cnet, claiming it to be 5.1HERE (http://reviews.cnet.com/Yamaha_RX_777_AV_receiver_5_1_channel/4505-6466_7-30097511.html?tag=pdtl-list)

It's hard to find info on the 777, I can't even find an image of the back panel! I downloaded the manual and the receiver looks very nice! I love the fact that it has a manual loudness adjustment knob and proper speaker cable posts on the back. (Unlike the Onkyo 8511's crappy clips). And at $360 including shipping, this thing just looks too good to be true!

Yamaha doesn't seem to make a big deal out of the phono inputs, I had to dig around through the manual just to make sure they were there. Have you tried it out personally?

Thanks again for the help.

nobody
02-26-2006, 01:35 PM
In this price range you've already identified two of the nicest manual tables. However, I think AT makes a very underated fully automatic technics clone:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00012EYNG/ref=nosim/104-4577829-0750354?n=172282
This table is a beast that would not be out of place with an upgraged $400 goldring cart on it later.


You had me all intrigued there with an automatic 1200 clone, as I tend to listen and fall asleep at night and have a drink or whatever now and then, so at least auto-shut off is something I value. However, all the description of that table says its a manual job.

SlumpBuster
02-26-2006, 08:20 PM
You had me all intrigued there with an automatic 1200 clone, as I tend to listen and fall asleep at night and have a drink or whatever now and then, so at least auto-shut off is something I value. However, all the description of that table says its a manual job.

Yeah, I think the official description (manual) is deceptive, but so was mine (automatic). I would call it "semi automatic". If it has a start/stop button it ain't manual in my book. The only true automatics that I can think of that you can still buy new are the Thorens and Duals.