Is my HT crashing and burning? [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

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littleb
02-17-2006, 10:05 AM
OK, so I have the Axiom M22/VP100/QS8 speaker set. I ordered a Denon AVR 1083 to complete my HT. I thought I was all set. Slowly, but surely it dawned on me that this didn't sound so great. So, I got rid of the Denon, went back to the old Yamaha receiver, and this, while better, still wasn't what I wanted to hear. I have spent a couple years putting this together and it feels like it's all crashing and burning. I am getting a bit frustrated about all this, I'm thinking maybe that modern HT just isn't for me. I might just sell everything and go back to listening to the radio. Just think, it would clear up room in the living room, and I could listen to the TV speakers, just like in the old days.

paul_pci
02-17-2006, 11:15 AM
OK, so I have the Axiom M22/VP100/QS8 speaker set. I ordered a Denon AVR 1083 to complete my HT. I thought I was all set. Slowly, but surely it dawned on me that this didn't sound so great. So, I got rid of the Denon, went back to the old Yamaha receiver, and this, while better, still wasn't what I wanted to hear. I have spent a couple years putting this together and it feels like it's all crashing and burning. I am getting a bit frustrated about all this, I'm thinking maybe that modern HT just isn't for me. I might just sell everything and go back to listening to the radio. Just think, it would clear up room in the living room, and I could listen to the TV speakers, just like in the old days.

What exactly isn't "so great"? You're not giving us much to go on but your state dissatisfaction.

littleb
02-17-2006, 11:27 AM
What exactly isn't "so great"? You're not giving us much to go on but your state dissatisfaction.

I'll try. With the Denon, 5.1 was average sounding, but 2 channel was absolutely horrid sounding. For lack of a better word, I would call it lackluster. Music and HT sound a bit harsh sounding with the Yamaha. The sound I get with these two receivers are like complete opposite. I know amps are supposed to sound the same, but in this case there seems to be quite a difference. All the modern electronics I've demoed seem to be either too laid back sounding or too in your face. I guess I'm looking for a happy medium. But, there doesn't seem to be any. Or is there?

paul_pci
02-17-2006, 11:49 AM
I'll try. With the Denon, 5.1 was average sounding, but 2 channel was absolutely horrid sounding. For lack of a better word, I would call it lackluster. Music and HT sound a bit harsh sounding with the Yamaha. The sound I get with these two receivers are like complete opposite. I know amps are supposed to sound the same, but in this case there seems to be quite a difference. All the modern electronics I've demoed seem to be either too laid back sounding or too in your face. I guess I'm looking for a happy medium. But, there doesn't seem to be any. Or is there?

I'm sure there is and will most likely be found in the "high end" manufacturers and not necessarily in the "mainstream" products, so the question is: will your budget allow for this move? Have you tried Rotel? I believe they make a 5 channel receiver for around $1k. You could also, depending on where you think the problem stems from (processing vs. amplification) try adding amps to the pre-outs of your receiver. You could begin with a two channel amp which would ideally improve music listening and take a load off the receiver.

Jim Clark
02-17-2006, 02:13 PM
I'm not entirely sure why you are fixated on the electronics as opposed to the speakers you have selected. Now I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with Axiom speakers but come on, you bought a set of speakers without hearing them over the internet. When this works out, it's a cause for celebration and therefore justifies the risk in the eyes of many. When it doesn't, well then you have the situation you are in now.

There are a great many people who feel that an AVR will never do justice to 2 channel music. I find that notion silly but trying to find a suitable solution takes time, patience, and most importantly, in home auditions to find the combination that works for you. I would suggest that if you are bound to the current speaker situation that you try out some products from Onkyo, Harmon Kardon (egads!), and maybe even a digital amped AVR from Panasonic. At this point you would have tried just about everything except Marantz. These can be purchased safely from places like CC with liberal return policies. If none of these makes your speakers sound at least acceptable then I'd suggest that you hate your speakers and nothing on the front end is ever going to make them sound especially pleasing.

Just one man's opinion. Wish you the best.

Regards,
jc

accastil
02-17-2006, 05:07 PM
buy a decent receiver. buy good speakers, and a good stereo power amp. receiver options are HK, marantz, yamaha, denon, onkyo. speaker options are paradigm, dynaudio, b&w. stereo power amp options are rotel, nad, used musical fidelity. just make sure the receiver youll be buying has multichannel pre outs and ins.

littleb
02-24-2006, 04:29 PM
I would like to amend my initial post. I've had some time to think about this issue. But, it just doesn't seem to make any sense. That is where I would like to redirect this discussion. When I was using the Denon, which possessed a supposedly more robust, powerful amp section, my HT sounded underpowered, whereas while using the Yamaha, which is allegedly underpowered, it seems as though my setup is clearer and more powerful. This is confusing to me. Could this perception have been a user issue? Ideas?

Florian
02-24-2006, 05:13 PM
Well, power rating and true power is different. I could give you a technical explenation, but you wouldnt like it. I wouldnt like that as a answere either. Consider this, if its not your speakers or your taste and your sure it is the amp then i would make an end of it and go seperate. You can find GREAT Lexicon Processors used on audiogon and go the seperate amp route. Receivers are great for the money, but a good pre and power amp combo is wonderfull and will deliver all your current needs with dedicated power supplys for each channel.

-Flo

EdwardGein
02-24-2006, 05:55 PM
My guess is, and this is just a guess based on not witnessing anything, just what you mentioned, you totally messed up, is this Deja Vu, setting up your Denon receiver internally, wiring is not done right, you have things on the wrong settings, etc. Your best off which you won't do, paying a Pro $75- $100 to set it up instead of reach in the dark here. Right off the top I'm guessing with your Denon setup, you didn't have the speakers, Db's, distance, inputs, sub on, sub at the right crossover, etc., set up on your Denon. Same thing with your DVD/Universal player. Were the speaker wires put in the right channels, securely. The bottom line anyone is when you buy a receiver you need to set it up internally because if you don't do so you'll have a mess in the first place. They are not plug in and play. Also I would try connecting even if you don't want to use in the long run, optic cable. This has been a Public Service.

SlumpBuster
02-24-2006, 08:18 PM
I think Ed is probably right. Modern Yamaha or Denon AVR has more in common with a new Dell PC than they do with their ancestors of 10 years ago. They are essentially computers with amps strapped to them. Volume controls work and feel different, parametric EQs **** up two channel listening modes. Integration of subwoofers is easier said then done. Frankly, there is alot that could go wrong in set up. You might have just set it up wrong.