quality turntable 200$ or under?

[funnyhat]

I am considering getting into vinyl with my paradigm studio 20's, is there anything in the 200 and under price range worth anything? If not, what is the budget range that would still be of quality? I am totally green in this area, any advice is very much appreciated! :D

[Bernd]

I am considering getting into vinyl with my paradigm studio 20's, is there anything in the 200 and under price range worth anything? If not, what is the budget range that would still be of quality? I am totally green in this area, any advice is very much appreciated! :D

Hi and welcome to the world of Vinyl.

You make no mention of your amp. With Vinyl you will either need a build in Phono Stage in your amp or you will have to buy a separate Phono Amp.
I would say that 200 bucks will not get you the quality you might want. I think buying new (which is always advisable with TTs), you would be looking at the entry level Project or a Rega P2 or P3.
Some members are very happy with a Technics but I can't comment on that as I have not heard one. So maybe someone can help out here.
I am very happy to give you all the help you need to get a great sounding Vinyl set up.

Have fun and feel free to ask.

Bernd

[Geoffcin]

I am considering getting into vinyl with my paradigm studio 20's, is there anything in the 200 and under price range worth anything? If not, what is the budget range that would still be of quality? I am totally green in this area, any advice is very much appreciated! :D

The problem is that TT don't travel well. I would check Audiogon.com for a used Music Hall 2.1. There's one right now with a Grado Gold;

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1144172944

[Woochifer]

There are the well regarded Project and Music Hall turntables right around the $250 price point, but keep in mind that to really make a decent go of it with vinyl, you also need to spring for a decent cartridge, and those will typically run you at around $100 for a good moving magnet cartridge with an elliptical stylus. The cartridges that typically come preinstalled with entry level turntables will not bring out the best in your vinyl, not by a long shot.

Going with a stylus beyond the garden variety elliptical shape (nude elliptical, fine line elliptical, or Fritz Geiger) or moving up to a moving coil cartridge will wring out a lot more detail and refinement out of your vinyl, but that also adds to the cost. Keep in mind that you'll need to replace the stylus about every other year with moderate playing. Moving coil requires replacing the entire cartridge or retipping when the stylus wears out. Doubtful that a used turntable will come with an almost new cartridge.

Add to that the price tags on new LPs that are typically double what a new CD will cost, and vinyl can be a very expensive addition. You can definitely get into vinyl for less than $200. But with the sound quality at that level, you might as well stick with CDs because the sound quality differences between entry level turntables and cartridges and the higher end models are much much wider than those between CD players.

[Bernd]

There are the well regarded Project and Music Hall turntables right around the $250 price point, but keep in mind that to really make a decent go of it with vinyl, you also need to spring for a decent cartridge, and those will typically run you at around $100 for a good moving magnet cartridge with an elliptical stylus. The cartridges that typically come preinstalled with entry level turntables will not bring out the best in your vinyl, not by a long shot.

Going with a stylus beyond the garden variety elliptical shape (nude elliptical, fine line elliptical, or Fritz Geiger) or moving up to a moving coil cartridge will wring out a lot more detail and refinement out of your vinyl, but that also adds to the cost. Keep in mind that you'll need to replace the stylus about every other year with moderate playing. Moving coil requires replacing the entire cartridge or retipping when the stylus wears out. Doubtful that a used turntable will come with an almost new cartridge.

Add to that the price tags on new LPs that are typically double what a new CD will cost, and vinyl can be a very expensive addition. You can definitely get into vinyl for less than $200. But with the sound quality at that level, you might as well stick with CDs because the sound quality differences between entry level turntables and cartridges and the higher end models are much much wider than those between CD players.

Well put.
One of the resons why CD got a foothold in the 80s. Lot's of bad cheap TTs around sold as an all in one solution.
For his price point CDs are a better bet. But if he wants to dip his toe into the vinyl world.

Bernd

[funnyhat]

Thanks for the ideas so far. Right now I have a yamaha surround reciever that has a phono output, but am starting to plan a general upgrade of all of my system except for the paradigms and have been looking into either NAD or Cambridge Audio integrateds. I have read about Music hall, is that the popular budget turn table right now?

[Geoffcin]

Thanks for the ideas so far. Right now I have a yamaha surround reciever that has a phono output, but am starting to plan a general upgrade of all of my system except for the paradigms and have been looking into either NAD or Cambridge Audio integrateds. I have read about Music hall, is that the popular budget turn table right now?

That your not going to get CD quality sound from a budget TT, and that new "audiophile grade" vinyl @ $39.95 a pop doesn't make sense for you, there's nothing wrong with enjoying older/used vinyl with a less than stellar setup. It can still sound decent.

[Coyote-X]

I've got an old Technics table that would be considered trash (probably just over a hundred bucks in 1984 or so) by most any audiophile standard, but I still enjoy the experience of listening to vinyl regardless. It's much more visceral and satisfying than a CD, with the big black discs and full sized, full color album art. I think (unless you've got a lot of money) that if you want something that sounds like a CD you might as well listen to a CD. If you keep the vinyl in good condition it'll still sound pretty decent, too. Not spectacular on a cheap table, but definitely listenable.

[vinyladdict]

MusicHall tables are manufactured by Pro-Ject. They are okay tables but come with suck-o-rific cartridges in my opinion.

I'd strongly suggest holding off until you can afford a Rega P2 (now discontinued but still available) or P3 if for no other reason than the arm is 10x what the Pro-Ject arms are. Match a P3 up with a nice Shure MX97e or maybe an Audio-Technica 440ML and you'll be better off.

[Bernd]

Coyote-X and Vinyladdict make two really good points you shoud consider.You do not have to spent vast amounts to start enjoying the vinyl sound. As for an amp. The Cambridge with the build in phonostage could be the way to go for you and then go for the Rega P3. The arm on the Rega can be rewired, the Counter weight changed for a Michell Counter weight and used, if you wish, on a latter TT upgrade. It really is that good.

Have fun

Bernd

[nightflier]

What about the Armour Goldring GR1 or GR1.2? AA is selling these for a tad over $200 (b-stock). It comes with an OK cartridge from what I can tell, although that can be upgraded too.

How does this table compare to the MMF 2.1 which is a little more $ and has that anti-skate string that is a little less than convenient.

[vinyladdict]

If you just have to have it now and you have to stick to the $200 budget then the Goldring isn't a bad way to go. Yes, it's built by Rega for Goldring, but here's the problem with it - the arm is a variant of the RB-250 but is not to the same bearing spec as the RB-250. Also, it mounts via a three point system that will NOT allow ANY VTA adjustment EVER. The RB-250 found on the Rega P2, however, is the exact same arm that many mega-buck tables from Michell, Nottingham Analogue, AVID, etc. include. It's that good.

[nightflier]

If you just have to have it now and you have to stick to the $200 budget then the Goldring isn't a bad way to go. Yes, it's built by Rega for Goldring, but here's the problem with it - the arm is a variant of the RB-250 but is not to the same bearing spec as the RB-250. Also, it mounts via a three point system that will NOT allow ANY VTA adjustment EVER. The RB-250 found on the Rega P2, however, is the exact same arm that many mega-buck tables from Michell, Nottingham Analogue, AVID, etc. include. It's that good.

Can the arm on the Goldring 1.2 be replaced with a different arm in the future? If so, then funnyhat still has some options for later.

[www.records]

Good suggestions above, another option would be a well cared for vintage TT. There are lots that have withstood the test of time and perform wonderfully for small money. I can offer some suggestions if this is something you are considering. After you have it for a while, you can decide if vinyl fits your needs and lifestyle. You could sell it with little if any loss and move up the vinyl chain if you find vinyl to your liking.

I think something to consider is if there is plenty of vinyl available in your area in your favorite genres of music. If you like classical or classic rock, there is lots of it available cheap if you are willing to look for it. Jazz is a little harder to come by and will cost a little more, but there are lots of reissue's that are pretty decent for about 1/2 of what a new CD will cost. OJC for one.

Anyway, I highly recommend you give it a try, ask questions, invest in a new good cheap cartridge (ask for suggestions on this), and learn to properly clean your records. You have nothing to lose and lots to gain, so check it out.

Steve

[Geoffcin]

Good suggestions above, another option would be a well cared for vintage TT. There are lots that have withstood the test of time and perform wonderfully for small money. I can offer some suggestions if this is something you are considering. After you have it for a while, you can decide if vinyl fits your needs and lifestyle. You could sell it with little if any loss and move up the vinyl chain if you find vinyl to your liking.
Steve

But the real problem is shipping them. Most don't have any of the locking screws that are needed to lock down the suspension for shipping. They can be damaged quite easily, and then there not going to do anyone any good. If you can get one locally and listen to it before you buy, then a vintage TT would be a great way to go.

[www.records]

Geoffcin, I agree 100%. When buying a used TT, if the seller doesn't know how to package it correctly, don't buy. I have only bought 1 used TT that had to be shipped. It was a Thorens 160 from NY. I questioned the seller in detail about how he was going to package it for shipping before I bought it. He knew what he was doing and it arrived in perfect order. Lucky? Probably. Local purchase is the best way to go if at all possible.

[Geoffcin]

Geoffcin, I agree 100%. When buying a used TT, if the seller doesn't know how to package it correctly, don't buy. I have only bought 1 used TT that had to be shipped. It was a Thorens 160 from NY. I questioned the seller in detail about how he was going to package it for shipping before I bought it. He knew what he was doing and it arrived in perfect order. Lucky? Probably. Local purchase is the best way to go if at all possible.

Sounds like you grilled him on the proper way to pack the TT for shipping, and he was already aware about how easily damaged they are. In a case like that, where you've done your homework, I would expect everthing to go smoothly.

I'm also not saying you can't get a good used TT from the web. There's a guy who posts some pics of the TT's that he's refurbed here that I would trust without a question. But, if your going to buy use on Ebay your really you better watch it though. As always; Buyer Beware!

[accastil]

i just wanna make 1 thing clear....are the rega p2 and p3's really supeior TTs as compared to the project debut 3 and the GR1.2?

[tin ear]

Geoffcin & www, mind if I ask what proper shipping prep is? Obviously shipper must still have the shipping screws & have them locked down. What else? (As a general rule, I expect Audiogon is a safer place than Ebay to buy a TT.)

Funnyhat, I have a way less than optimum 20-year-old TT I dug out of my shed. Slapped a Shure M97xE in it (like $65 US at Amazon), and I am grooooooooovin'. Buying 3 - 5 records a week; it's great.

I'm looking for just something to replace this table while I wait to afford a really nice table. Meantime, I'll be upgrading the rest of my system. What I'm saying is it can be done in increments. So long as the table isn't so funky it'll ruin your records, is all.

Have fun. Vinyl is way nice.

[JohnMichael]

If you just have to have it now and you have to stick to the $200 budget then the Goldring isn't a bad way to go. Yes, it's built by Rega for Goldring, but here's the problem with it - the arm is a variant of the RB-250 but is not to the same bearing spec as the RB-250. Also, it mounts via a three point system that will NOT allow ANY VTA adjustment EVER. The RB-250 found on the Rega P2, however, is the exact same arm that many mega-buck tables from Michell, Nottingham Analogue, AVID, etc. include. It's that good.


Rega sells 2mm and 4mm spacers for the tonearms with the three point mounting for VTA adjustment.

[nobody]

I haven't heard it myself, but if you can spring an extra 10 bucks, this looks like a decent plug-and-play solution, complete with phono EQ.

<a href="http://www.hotbuyselectronics.com/item_detail.php?item_id=112960">Denon DP-300F</a>

[3db]

MusicHall tables are manufactured by Pro-Ject. They are okay tables but come with suck-o-rific cartridges in my opinion.

I'd strongly suggest holding off until you can afford a Rega P2 (now discontinued but still available) or P3 if for no other reason than the arm is 10x what the Pro-Ject arms are. Match a P3 up with a nice Shure MX97e or maybe an Audio-Technica 440ML and you'll be better off.

Have you heard the project tables first hand? All the reviews I've read inidcated that the Projects make some of the best entry level tables going. The reviews also mentioned their short comings too so its not all rose coloued glasses. RegaP2 and P3 are at least twice the price of the Project Debut 3s so I'm not sure if they are considered entyr level at that price point.