iPod/MP3 player question

[N. Abstentia]

Okay, I think I've finally decided to buy an MP3 player. I was looking at 60gb hard drive players first, so I could transfer my entire collection to it but I think I've decided to go opposite and get a smaller at least 2gb flash player for cost and reliability reasons.

So I'm looking at Best Buy...because I have a Best Buy credit card with 6 months free financing :) and the main ones I liked are the Sandisk Sansa 2gb and of course the iPod 2gb dealie.

My main concern in flash player is this...I want to plug it into a USB port and copy my files to it, then play them. That simple. I don't want any other software involved. Can the iPod work like this, or does it have to use iTunes?

Anybody have the Sandisk Sansa? It says it works like this, but I'd like to hear from a user here. I'm already leaning towards the Sansa because it's cheaper, it's not Apple, and the iPod does not play WMA files which is a deal killer unless I hear something that negates that. I don't want to re-rip as MP3, but I can if needed. Since it's only 2gb I will only need to rip a little anyway.

[anamorphic96]

The one question I can answer for you is the iPod ONLY works with iTunes.

Not sure about the Sandisk players. But my boss has a small Samsung 1GB flash player that sounded real good. There is also a 2GB version as well. The other nice thing is they run on 1 AA battery. Not sure the price on the 2GB but the 1GB version is only 99.00.

[N. Abstentia]

Thanks anamorphic, that kind of rules out the iPod for me..which I didn't really want anyway :)

Looks like the only Samsung players Best Buy has are the 512kb players and the 1 gb Yepp which is $30 more than the 2gb Sandisk. I'll be going to the store to get it though, so they might have more available there.

You reminded me of another think I liked about the Sandisk player, it runs off of 1 AAA battery. A rechargeable battery like the iPod is okay, but for $6 I can get FOUR rechargeable batteries :)

[paul_pci]

Why is using mp3 sofware like iTunes such a dealbreaker? I'm quite the opposite, where I wouldn't want a player where I couldn't control or organize my music. I think iTunes is an asset not a detraction.

[N. Abstentia]

The main reason I don't want to use iTunes is because I want to be able to transfer my music from any computer on my network at any time. I don't want to have to install some software package on every computer I touch. I don't really care about playlists or downloading music, and I don't want my music to go through any type of 'conversion' or anything like that. I just want to pick out a handful of albums from my audio server and drop them on the player.

But if I HAD to use iTunes I could probably get used to it, assuming it doesn't do any type of downcoversion during the uploads. However there are just too many reasons I don't want an iPod...it can't play WMA files (I don't have one single MP3), it can't play WAV files, and it does not have an FM tuner like the Sandisk.

[kexodusc]

I thought the new Ipods were compatible with wav and MP3 now? Does this mean they convert all these other formats in iTunes or whatever?

[markw]

You don't need so steeenking Ipod interface. You can "click and drag" directly from a CD but you most lilely will want to use WMP as an intemediary to load stuff to folders in yer 'puter and then dran the whole folder to the player. ...at least this is what she tells me.

[paul_pci]

I thought the new Ipods were compatible with wav and MP3 now? Does this mean they convert all these other formats in iTunes or whatever?

iTunes is not a format, just a program to rip, burn, store, and manage digital music. It will convert your CDs into whatever format you want: ACC, AIF, Apple Lossless, mp3 of coursee, and WAV.

[RGA]

I'm in the same boat you are. The Samsung was my leading candidate but Sandisk is an intriguing option because it has an SD card slot. My Camera uses the SD card and what is great bout such a device is that it is upgradable and you can simply switch in a new card for different music. The Sandisk E130 is something like $99.00Cad. Whcih is considerably cheaper than an Apple - plus you get a 5 line digital display and FM tuner.

What I really like though is that you are not stuck with a rechargeable battery -- if you go camping or are on the go you can just take out the AAA and put in another one -- recharging si such a pain in the ass.

The thing looks like it is just what you need "The player shows up as a USB mass storage device on Windows and so it's easy to mount and drag-and-drop files in it. You can use the device as a way to transfer files to other computers, not just as a music player & FM Radio."

These things look to be very good and very cheap.
http://www.livedigitally.com/?p=277

I am leaning toward this myself. As for mass storage I purchased a Samsung 250gig hard drive so I can record all my music in lossless format. Then I can use the Sandisk (when i get one) for on the go MP3 music. Combined this is far cheaper than the Apple 60gig unit.

[N. Abstentia]

Thanks for all the replies guys, my Sandisk Sansa 2gb player arrived today and I am VERY impressed with it. This is the one I ordered:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7331149&type=product&id=1118844780039

I took it out of the box, put a battery in it, plugged in the USB cable, copied some files over, and it was ready to go. In about 10 minutes I had 21 full CD's on it (which filled it up, all are 192k WMA files). I ripped some MP3 files also, but the WMA's sounded much better so I'll be sticking with that. Even the little ear buds sound pretty good, but this little baby sounds phenomenal through my Sennheisers. It sounds as good as any portable CD player. I may treat myself to some high end earbuds next :)

But so far on the Sandisk Sansa...HUGE thumbs up. I've found nothing negative about it yet, and having an FM tuner is a nice plus. The display is simple and to the point, the menu is simple to understand....I guess the whole thing just works like you think it should is the best way to put it.

[RGA]

Congrats.

I bought the one I posted to you which is a 512mb version with a different look. I have yet to try it out but I've had good luck with a Sandisc flash drive so the choice was pretty easy.

[N. Abstentia]

I just don't know what else you would want from a digital music player, this little Sandisc is just killer. I take it with me everywhere! Of course you can spend more and get more storage or a color screen, but for a meat & potatoes player I just don't see why anyone would buy an iPod instead of a Sandisk.

Next up...some high quality in-earphones. Looking at Sennheiser and Shure. Maybe a seperate post is in order...

[markw]

I just don't see why anyone would buy an iPod instead of a Sandisk.The same reason people wear reeboks and Nike's instead of lower priced generics of equal quality. The same reason you see "Tommy Hilfiger" or "DKNY" on otherwise standard clothing. The name is more important than the function they perform

It's a status/name recognition thing. "Ipod" is "in" and it wouldn't surprise me if it (the mame) became a generic term like asprin. xerox, coke, etc...

[ericl]

People buy apple because it's an excellent product. I've used a lot of stuff, and apple products are by far the most easy and fun to use, reliable, and well designed. iTunes is a great program, super flexible and reliable. It just works everytime, and any idiot can figure it out. I can't understand why anyone would use Windows Media player to interact with an mp3 player, it's one of the most obnoxious, clunky,a nd nreliable pieces of software that I've ever seen. The software you use to interact with your player really makes or breaks the player, IMHO.

e

[N. Abstentia]

I don't know about Windows Media Player as far as transferring files, but the Sansa couldn't be easier to transfer files to. Copy, paste, done. Drag & drop. I found the iPod no easier to use than the Sandisk (about the same) but when I saw that the iPods do not support WMA or WAV files I couldn't put it down quick enough. Then I read that you can't even put another battery in an iPod? My iPod experience just left me wondering why people still buy iPods which cost quite a bit more than players that work better, are not stuck with a proprietary software, and have replaceable batteries. I guess they're just not for me!

[RGA]

N. Abstentia

I have to agreee. With all the hype the iPod gets I started to try and rip my cd's using the iTunes program and find it to be incredibly counterintuitive and downright crappy compared to Windows Media Player. Open cd drawer put cd in close. WMP automatically opens lists the cd. You select which recording quality you want to make MP3 or WMA Lossless etc. Once selected and you select which drive you want to save to (I have an external drive) then you simply click Rip and it goes. It remembers your setting and so all you have to do is stick new cds in and it will automatically Rip them. Easy Peezy.

The Sandisk with the SD card is even easier because you just stick the SD card into the computer's slot(if your computer has one) and right cliock and select send to drive E(or whatever the SD card drive is) and it sends it over. Take the card out of the computer and stick it into the SanDisk. I paid $99.00 Cad for a 512mb player which also takes up to 2gb of SD cards. But you could buy MANY 2gb SD cards and simply take one out and stick another one (with different music) in.

When the batterry dies you simply replace the AAA. You get 17 hours of music and they run with rechargables. Plus you get FM and a 5 line screen with a backlight. I personally like the volume wheel (I'm old school that way).

The IPod has a HUGE batterry failure rate and once dead the thing is dead. You can;t replace them - they take a TERRIBLE 5 hours to charge and only play for 12 hours. No screens.

The greatest thing about the Sandisck is that it needs NO SOFTWARE. Drag drop. If the iPod is better I have not yet discovered what it is. Cowan is an iPod rippoff product from Korea for less money though so it makes things more appealing.

The above is only discussing flash players.

[SlumpBuster]

People buy apple because it's an excellent product. I've used a lot of stuff, and apple products are by far the most easy and fun to use, reliable, and well designed. iTunes is a great program, super flexible and reliable. It just works everytime, and any idiot can figure it out. I can't understand why anyone would use Windows Media player to interact with an mp3 player, it's one of the most obnoxious, clunky,a nd nreliable pieces of software that I've ever seen. The software you use to interact with your player really makes or breaks the player, IMHO.

e


I use iTunes on my work computer. I don't really download anything from the interwebs, unless someone gets me a gift card or something. iTunes is okay.

Then I got a new home computer, and was thinking about turning my old one into a music server for entertaining, dinner parties, ect. Well, 300 gigs means I could end up ripping lots of records. So I waffled between iTunes and Yahoo MusicMatch Jukebox that came preinstalled on my computer with an option to upgrade for $20 to include all sort of features including extensive vinyl management tools. I could find no iTunes support for vinyl. Needless to say, MusicMatch has been great and its leaps and bounds past iTunes, IMO. Oh, and I don't use any portable players, for whatever thats worth.

[audio_dude]

there are many different apps you can use instead of iTunes...do a google on "iTunes alternative"

[Zhyn]

I use XPlay by mediafour to transfer files to my ipod (first gen 10GB) and it just uses a drag and drop system. I switched to xplay right away (I think back then the only option for windows was musicmatch). I'm not sure if xplay works with the ipod flash players, or what they are up to now. You do have to install it on any system You want to drag and drop though, so thats a minus.

Oh, and my Ipod only last for about 6 hours now, but I've had it for years so I guess that's pretty good. I rarely listen to music longer then that in one day anyway. And I just charge it at night.

It's also super durable. I've dropped it so many times <_<. It has a dent in it. But it still works :)

Saying all that, I would not buy another ipod. There are players that have way better features and suppost more music formats now. Ipods seem so lacking now. There's just no reason to buy an Ipod anymore.

[audio_dude]

hey, thats not nice, I think iPods still have it! take this for instance, they haven't changed in price since the 3G iPod, now it has the click wheel, 2.5" color screen, 30gb capacity, 14h batterylife, shall I go on?

[N. Abstentia]

they haven't changed in price since the 3G iPod,

Yeah good point...most things come down in price over the years. Look at computers, dvd players, HDTV's...yet an iPod has not changed in price. :confused5:

[PHiX]

Yeah good point...most things come down in price over the years. Look at computers, dvd players, HDTV's...yet an iPod has not changed in price. :confused5:


An iPod you buy today has more functionality / storage / battery life and is a better piece of equipment than one you bought 3 years ago. Apple isn't a pricefighter, they don't lower prices, they improve their products.

[N. Abstentia]

An iPod you buy today has more functionality / storage / battery life and is a better piece of equipment than one you bought 3 years ago.

And a computer/dvd player/HDTV is not? Choose from that list..I'll take a brand new one any day over one that's 3 years old.

[PHiX]

And a computer/dvd player/HDTV is not? Choose from that list..I'll take a brand new one any day over one that's 3 years old.

A high end gaming pc was expensive 3 years ago and still is. Many family pcs drop in price because lately they are more and more equipped with old junk. The amount of clockcycles isn't a measurement anymore... so the average Joe goes for the cheapest pc which runs windows and can be used to surf the net. An average pc could do that 5 years ago as well. Once Vista is out I bet that the price of an average family pc found in warehouses raises again.


With dvd-players / burners you're right, they drop in price because R&D has been paid back by now and the high production volumes.

If you buy a dvd-player which incorporates new technology you still pay a fortune.

iPods also constantly get equipped with new technology every year. Go ahead and mention a device like a 5G iPod that does the same and is considerably cheaper. I can't think of one. Closest is a Zen Vision M which is about the same price.

[audio_dude]

no, look at the improvements, and it's still the same price, i meant that as a good thing, like the thing is not more expensive, lol

[bacchanal]

A high end gaming pc was expensive 3 years ago and still is. Many family pcs drop in price because lately they are more and more equipped with old junk. The amount of clockcycles isn't a measurement anymore... so the average Joe goes for the cheapest pc which runs windows and can be used to surf the net. An average pc could do that 5 years ago as well. Once Vista is out I bet that the price of an average family pc found in warehouses raises again.


You don't know what you're talking about. Old junk? How many processor architecture revisions have there been in the last 3 years? Clock cycles were never a measurement that meant anything, that was just intel marketing for their inefficient (long pipeline) processors. Computers can now multitask thanks to multi core cpus. As in they can run Word and Outlook at the same time, try that three years ago! Also intel chips have dropped 40% in price since last year. You can now get a real (not a celery) dual core cpu for less than $100. That and intel is about to release a new architecture called 'conroe' or Core Duo 2 or something like that. It's a much more efficient design, that will basically blow away the current intel (and amd) chips...then there is the quad core version of the conroe architecture coming in 1Q07. That should be about the time Vista arrives....

Anyway...consumer pricepoints won't change. There will always be PCs at $500, $1000, $1500, and up, but there is always more functionality and performance to be had, if you know or care how to use it. It's not like your $500 pc from '03 came with a DVD burner and a 250GB hard drive.

Maybe I don't know the avg joe too well. But I build pcs, and most people I know want a comp that will do a little more than surf the net.

[bacchanal]

Oh yeah, and back on topic...

for the adventurous, you can try http://www.rockbox.org/
it is a complete rewrite of the firmware for several mp3 players including several iPod models. The main benefits are that it alows drag and drop and support for alternative formats like FLAC and Ogg

you can run it in dual boot mode with the original iPod firmware, so you can still watch videos and stuff. it's pretty cool

[PHiX]

It's not like your $500 pc from '03 came with a DVD burner and a 250GB hard drive.

Maybe I don't know the avg joe too well. But I build pcs, and most people I know want a comp that will do a little more than surf the net.

I was just giving an example to illustrate my point and I guess it still didn't get across. Of course a $500 pc now does more than one bought for the same price 3 years ago. Just like iPods bought a year ago didn't play videos... I know, because I have one of 2 years old and it does not even show colour pictures. The price of the components did drop, but Apple doesn't drop the price.... they give more for the same price with each generation.

Today's iPod is the high end game pc, my iPod is like the budget pc's you find at Walmart, old technology. 2 years from now current iPods will be old again, but unlike pcs they'll be taken off the market in favor of keeping the brand out of the budget segment..

[audio_dude]

aren't we getting a bit off topic here, lol....hehe, i'm glad I opened this back up, lol

[Feanor]

I thought the new Ipods were compatible with wav and MP3 now? Does this mean they convert all these other formats in iTunes or whatever?

All files must be imported into iTunes before they can be loaded onto an iPod. The process is no big deal: it's easy and relatively fast. If the file format is one that the iPod can handle natively, such as MP3, iTunes doesn't convert the file, it just registers it in the iTunes Library. If the format isn't handled by iPod, iTunes, in many cases, will offer the user to convert it to an Apple format before bringing it into the Library.

The whole issue of having to use iTunes is blown out of proportion by some people -- most of them non-iPod users.

[N. Abstentia]

The whole issue of having to use iTunes is blown out of proportion by some people -- most of them non-iPod users.

Or even more accurate...former iPod users...due to iTunes.

[Feanor]

Or even more accurate...former iPod users...due to iTunes.

Any given piece of software isn't going to work ideally for all users all the time. iTunes is certainly no exception.

For me the big issue is that a given user can have one a single Library on a single computer. This is a fairly significant pain for me: I would like to have multiple Libraries and access them from multiple computers on my home net work. No can do!! :incazzato: I can set up a separate user on the same computer and import an existing set of files into the second user's Library, but obviously this is not an ideal solution. Nevertheless I find iTunes to be very slick and easy to use in general.

Same thing for the iPod. In the case of my Mini at least, the need to have the battery factory installed is an issue; I had to this once already, though under warranty.

[Mike Anderson]

All files must be imported into iTunes before they can be loaded onto an iPod.

Nope. See the link above to Rockbox. You can basically re-jigger the iPod so it doesn't have to be used with iTunes.



The process is no big deal: it's easy and relatively fast. If the file format is one that the iPod can handle natively, such as MP3, iTunes doesn't convert the file, it just registers it in the iTunes Library. If the format isn't handled by iPod, iTunes, in many cases, will offer the user to convert it to an Apple format before bringing it into the Library.

The whole issue of having to use iTunes is blown out of proportion by some people -- most of them non-iPod users.

I agree with this.

[Feanor]

Nope. See the link above to Rockbox. You can basically re-jigger the iPod so it doesn't have to be used with iTunes.

....

Interesting to hear about Rockbox, Mike A, thanks. For myself, I'm basically quite content with iTunes which is slick and easy in most respects.

[audio_dude]

what about GNUpod, or another free iTunes alternative

[Fritz]

I use Winamp with a plugin for my iPod. It works very well, and I like it because Winamp is the best media player I have found for windows so far. I really want try out iPodLinux and rockbox too, but they dont support the 2G nano yet....:sad: I also would love a line-in recording feature, especially since my major is 'Sound Recording Technology'..hehe. I would just love to make a dock connector adapter and an external pair of preamps:ihih: