Comparison - Pioneer VSX-1015TX vs Yamaha RX-V1400 [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

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kexodusc
02-09-2006, 11:18 AM
I mentioned a few weeks back I'd be doing a comparison of sorts with the vsx-1015tx from Pioneer and my incumbent RX-V1400, well, I ended up comparing it to slightly newer Yamaha receiver.

I've been quite happy with my RX-V1400 receiver the past 2 years, but recently a co-worker from Australia offered to buy my Yamaha RX-V1400 receiver from me before he heads back next week, for a pretty good price too. This left me with 4 days to buy a new receiver on my recent trip to NY and Atlanta before I had to make it to Florida to meet my wife for our (delayed) honeymoon. So with some cash in hand and my brother's place to stay, I went shopping. On the short list were 2 receivers...RX-V1500 or Pioneer's VSX-1015TX.

I went to JandR in New York. This was kind of weird...I had bought a few pieces of gear over the past few years from these guys, but always online...so I finally got to see the place...My salesguy was pretty good. He couldn't mail me the RX-V1500 back to my home address because of Yamaha's policies but he could sell me the HTR-5890, which is 99.9% the same receiver (the chassis is a bit different - ligther and perhaps with more air flow. He was nice enough to let me take both home for a few days, but I had to pay for both upfront on my credit card (pre-authorized, not posted though). The catch was a restocking fee on both if I didn't buy anything, kind of forced me into a sale, but I was ready for it.

First up was the Pioneer I've fiddled with before but never had much time to spend with alone...Only downside is I had to use my brother's Paradigm Studios, but I know those speakers well enough having owned them before (still have the 40's). Anyway...I was very impressed with the Pioneer. And some authorized places (like jandr) I've spoken with will sell it for as low as $399 - I'm sure someone will go lower as well. I can't think of any other $400 receiver that can do as much as well as the Pioneer can.

From the start I found this to be probably the easiest receiver to hook up and setup that I've ever used. Don't know if it's just the fact I'm more experienced with receivers in general or what, but the manual, remote, setup, everything was just very easy to learn...fast. It has every bit as much power as it claims to have and delivers a very good, clean sound. Nothing like my Rotel RA-1070, but better than a lot of a/v receivers I've heard over the years. I believe it to be a bit warmer than the Yamaha , but I wouldn't say by much. I didn't get a chance to try any hi-rez formats with this unit, but the remastered DSOTM album sounded great in RBCD format. For my own personal tastes, I couldn't help but feel that this thing wanted to play louder all the time, it definitely had the guts, and sounded the best when loud. At lower volumes I never could get the right with the highs, either too much or too little. But I wasn't in my own home so I can't say for certain this was the receivers fault...My brother does have this yuppie minimalist thing going on his big new house (jerk).

One minor gripe was with the MCACC auto setup and EQ function...the darn thing would never make up its mind if the speakers were small or large, and the Eq boosts were sometimes helpful, sometimes not. You might have to try running it a few times...I can't help but wonder if just background noise (wind on this day) was enough to skew results?
No big deal though, my 1400 receiver was a bit fussy too.

The Yamaha was easy enough for me to setup (by the way, unhooking a receiver and hooking up a new one can take a good 1/2 hour) since I'm familiar with them. I was pretty much expecting this to be a clone of what I already had. But there were a few nice new features. Yamaha claims to have upgraded some of the internal amplification and input components since the RX-V1400/HTR-5790 version...I've seen a few magazine reviews since that confirm this. If the sound quality is any better, I'll probably never be able to confirm it, but what the heck.
It does have a bit more power, which might be important to some. It also has a real "Pure Direct" mode that kills the video circuitry, by-passes all processing, and engages this cool glowing blue light. Personally, I think this little gadget on most receivers is a must today. There's just a tiny bit of something better about it...not sure if somethings added, not lost, or taken away, but it sounds better IMO.

The remote now has macro capability. That's nice, I can ditch my universal remote now. I don't think it has any new inputs, or outputs.
The biggest surprise for me was how the YPAO feature worked. Faster, and more accurate than my old unit. Still not perfect, but definitely better. The PEQ especially, I get consistent results now, and they seem to be enhancing (or at least not hurting) the sound. I always got a bit too much mid-bass on my 1400, especially with my center channel, so I wouldn't use it.

And it correctly reads the proper distance from my subwoofer. Woo hoo. Before I was getting rediculous values of 19 ft etc. It has a DTS Neo 96Khz capability now...don't know what it's suppose to do or if I'll ever use it. Has the RS-232C interface now too. Won't be using that.

I think there's a few other subtle goodies. This unit doesn't look quite as nice with the flip-down faceplate missing, but oh well. I believe this was maybe more than just year-to-year renumbering job on the model though. Usually there aren't as many changes from year to year.

I was quoted a pretty fair price on the unit, $499 was what I was first quoted, but I managed to talk him down a bit more since I was also buying a new DVD-player...I'm sure you could haggle a bit more as well.

The biggest differences between the Pioneer and Yamaha that I could spot are:
Slightly larger PSU in the Yamaha, but negligible
Slightly firmer feel when plugging in cables (the Pioneer wasn't flimsy, but there was more give, at one piont I was worried when plugging in component video cables.
Small difference in sound (subjective).
Better remote, and easier setup on the Pioneer.
Macros on the Yamaha's remote.
More and better movie DSP's on the Yamaha (some of us like these now and then)
THX select 2 on the Pioneer (THX's quality test) vs. THX select on Yamaha
One extra year of warranty on the Yamaha
A few extra audio and video inputs on the Yamaha (which for me could actually be necessary)
Apparently a less fussy auto-setup?
$399 vs. $499 street price.

In the end I bought the Yammie, mostly because I'm comfortable with them, and I just wasn't wowed enough to switch brands. I know how the remote and features work almost to a tee...and I have a matching DVD player at home in our room, which was my wife's biggest concern. So I paid $40 out of my pocket for 2 years of warranty, macros, and a few other upgrades, seems fair, though I confess this "upgrade" to be more of a lateral move sideways. I wouldn't recommend this to anyone else.

Value wise, I think I'd have to give it to the Pioneer though. I only ended up paying $40 out of my pocket for the Yamaha after the sale of my RX-V1400. These things are beind cleared out now for cheap in a lot of places, so now's the time to buy. The VSX-1015TX is a hot seller according to JandR, they were without one for a month, and had a whole shipment used for backorders.

I think a lot of users here who are looking at the popular Yamahas and Denons in the $300 - $350 range would do well to scrounge up some extra coins to spring for the VSX-1015tx. It's a better unit, IMO, and for not a lot more money you are stepping up to a higher level of receiver. The amount of goodies you get for the money is impossible to beat. And it probably weighs a good 7 or 8lbs more.

If ar.com gave out a receiver of the year award in the under $1000 MSRP category, it would be a contender. Except it's in the under $500 category.

For those wondering when I called www.jr.com for a quote on the 1015tx, they beat their advertised web price and told me $399, (they are an authorized dealer, which is nice) I'm not sure if shipping was free or not, but it cost me $35 to send it to Canada so it shouldn't be much.

GMichael
02-09-2006, 12:09 PM
Nice reveiw Kex. It made for interesting reading.
So, back to the Yammie huh?

kexodusc
02-09-2006, 12:12 PM
Yeah, blatant brand loyalty I guess, but I'm comfortable with it, and the warranty was a big thing for me. I've had to many receivers crap out on me in years past.

speakeroligist_38
02-09-2006, 12:18 PM
Well done Kex. Just hope I did not get hurt too bad by buying the 757 instead of the Pioneer1015. I know the Pioneer would of had been better over all but I got such a good deal on the 757 and could not pass it up. The only reason I got rid of my 650 was because the guy that bought my other stuff decided he wanted my yammie too. I thought well why not.....LOL!!!! I do believe, however, the 757 is a decent step up from the 650. I only gave $25 dollars more for the 757 than I did for the 650. This is why I could not pass it up. And I am just loving my Paradigm Studio 20 v.3's too. I was watching the movie DOOM the other day and only using my Studio 20's with my yammie's virtual ht function and I would swear I was using a powered sub. It was amazing to me that the Studio 20's could play that low yet still sound that good. Take care Kex.

GMichael
02-09-2006, 12:38 PM
Yeah, blatant brand loyalty I guess, but I'm comfortable with it, and the warranty was a big thing for me. I've had to many receivers crap out on me in years past.

I am big on reliability too. That's the mane reason I went with my Yammie. Although, I do have a Panasonic from the 70's that still works great. The 8-track even still records.

kexodusc
02-09-2006, 12:42 PM
Names like Sony, Kenwood, Panasonic, and Pioneer got to where they are today because of their tank like build qualities from decades past. I think over the years the increase competition has pushed them to try to reduce prices. To do that, costs have to go down as well. Shortcuts are made, and today a few of these names aren't really synonymous with quality anymore.

L.J.
02-09-2006, 01:50 PM
Excellent review Kex! You almost had me sold on either one.

thekid
02-09-2006, 03:37 PM
Kex

Great review!

It was especially nice to see that you recognized/appreciated the possible advantages of the Pioneer over the Yamaha but admitted that it was brand loyalty that was the primary factor in your decision. Too many reviewers are not strong enough to admit their deference to their brand loyalty and instead try to build up their choices by tearing down the competition.

It almost makes me almost regret not springing the extra $150 and getting the 1015 instead of the 815 I picked up.

kexodusc
02-09-2006, 03:55 PM
Thanks for the nice words guys, it's not really much of a thorough review...just my observation on two rather popular models.

thekid: I don't dislike many pieces of equipment so it's not hard for me to get excited about a piece I'm demo-ing. I'm not married to Yamaha either, I just can't justify getting a pre-pro at this point from someone like Outlaw or a Rotel. As soon as I can, the Yammies are gone...

L.J.
02-09-2006, 04:37 PM
Kex,

What are your thoughts on the lower priced Yammies such as the 5830?

It's on sale at BB for only $170. Perfect for my bedroom. :D

kexodusc
02-09-2006, 06:03 PM
I think if you were going that inexpensive, why not get a used receiver, a refurb or something like this great little Onkyo
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4071518

That 5830 probably isn't bad, but it's the smallest a/v receiver I think Yamaha's ever built...while it benefits from other components and features trickling down the product line, I'm just not sure it's the best for the money at this price-point.

Geoffcin
02-09-2006, 06:21 PM
Yeah, blatant brand loyalty I guess, but I'm comfortable with it, and the warranty was a big thing for me. I've had to many receivers crap out on me in years past.

Two year warrantee would have sold it for me. A macro enabled remote too?, where do I sign!

Pioneer guy that I am, I think it's stupid that Yamaha makes the only receiver available with HD-Radio. Even then it's only on the pricey 2600. Remember when FM used to matter in a receiver? Now it's "THX select 3xl".....BAH!

kexodusc
02-09-2006, 06:27 PM
Actually, Geoff, that's one of the reasons why I didn't go for a "true" upgrade at this point...I know I'd have to spend a mint to get the 2600 or better, and for HDMI and XM radio aren't worth it to me, yet. Hopefully an HD video format will be prominent in 2 or 3 years so, in which case HDMI will probably be standard, and decoding for any new audio formats will be available. We're almost "in limbo" these days.

L.J.
02-09-2006, 07:31 PM
I think if you were going that inexpensive, why not get a used receiver, a refurb or something like this great little Onkyo
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4071518

That 5830 probably isn't bad, but it's the smallest a/v receiver I think Yamaha's ever built...while it benefits from other components and features trickling down the product line, I'm just not sure it's the best for the money at this price-point.

Wow only 79 bucks, not bad. I'm actually gonna go up to around 300. Not sure if I care to go used on a recv. Never crossed my mind. I'm really not limited on funds, as far as a bedroom AVR goes, I just don't need too much. But I still want something reliable. 300 should open up alot of options though. I was curious to what you thought of the lower priced yammies. thanks

thekid
02-09-2006, 08:07 PM
Thanks for the nice words guys, it's not really much of a thorough review...just my observation on two rather popular models.

thekid: I don't dislike many pieces of equipment so it's not hard for me to get excited about a piece I'm demo-ing. I'm not married to Yamaha either, I just can't justify getting a pre-pro at this point from someone like Outlaw or a Rotel. As soon as I can, the Yammies are gone...

Kex

Don't get me wrong I was just making a general comment that your approach to evaluate the equipment was an honest approach that more people should follow.

I am not call anybody out on this site. It is an observation I have noticed of a type of review that is some seen on consumer sites.

kexodusc
02-10-2006, 08:06 AM
No problems here, I know exactly what you were saying...I've seen it too.
I find newbies tend to attach themselves to brands more than some of the more experienced folks. Sure we've all got our favorites, but for the most part people just realized there's a whole lot of great equipment out there. A few years back I was ranting and raving about Marantz receivers. Until both of mine quit quit working. :(

Woochifer
02-10-2006, 12:32 PM
Kex -

Great job documenting your listenings of these units! I take it that you bought your receiver on closeout (which would explain the steal of a price that you got for that particular model), since Yamaha is now selling the RX-V1600/2600. Good to hear that Yamaha made some refinements to improve the YPAO calibration, since the accuracy of some calibrations on the RX-V1400/2400 seemed inconsistent by accounts I've read.

It also seems that you've confirmed a lot of the good press that the Pioneer 1015 has gotten on various audio boards. Will be interesting to see if the new replacement model maintains the level of quality that Pioneer obviously put into the 1015 for a very reasonable price. Buyers should keep their fingers crossed that Pioneer doesn't start cutting corners like they did with their budget priced universal players when they switched from a Burr-Brown DAC model that could process a SACD's DSD signals directly, to a less expensive model that converted everything to PCM.

I might be looking at a similar lateral receiver upgrade when I start converting my video setup to HD. I plan to go with a fully digital video setup and would need a new DVD player anyway since my current player does not do progressive scan. With a HDMI satellite receiver and DVD player, this would make HDMI switching a more important feature to have. I've been looking at the RX-V1600 because I know that it uses the same Burr-Brown DACs that my SACD player uses, and have been very impressed with how that model handles SACD and CD audio. The HDMI 1.1 connection on that model allows for the receiver to decode DVD-A thru a digital connection, and that would be another good feature for me since I don't currently have a DVD-A player.

I totally hear you about giving the nod to the brand that's done well for you in the past if things are otherwise a tossup. I've had nothing but positive dealings with Yamaha's build quality and customer service, so that would have to count for something when deciding between one of their products and a competing product with similar performance and features.

kexodusc
02-11-2006, 06:02 AM
Kex -

Great job documenting your listenings of these units! I take it that you bought your receiver on closeout (which would explain the steal of a price that you got for that particular model), since Yamaha is now selling the RX-V1600/2600.
Wooch, truth be told I don't think this was a closeout deal...I've called them off and on about a few models since November for a few people and this price wasn't much lower than that for the RX-V1500 I was quoted back then ($75 more)...I've bought a lot of stuff from them over the last 2 years and they always offer competitive deals. They're an "authorized dealer" for all their brands too which is nice security. They do a ton of volume which is likely how they make a go of it. Good support the one time I needed it for a friend's Denon DVD player.


Good to hear that Yamaha made some refinements to improve the YPAO calibration, since the accuracy of some calibrations on the RX-V1400/2400 seemed inconsistent by accounts I've read.
It's not even close. The difference is dramatic, I get more consistent results from test to test, and the eq adjustments are more in line with what I measure with test tones from my listening position...it sound a lot better. I think they're either using the chips from their upper models, or recognized they had a problem and worked fast to fix it. The 657 and 757 seem to have the same test tones and beeps my old 1400 had (an upgrade for those models over the previous year). Seems there's more emphasis on making tangible improvements from year to year. HDMI is a pretty good new feature on 1600 (though pricey). Maybe the moral of the story here is synonymous with buying a car - that is, wait for the 2nd installment of a new design/feature before buying so they can work out the kinks?


It also seems that you've confirmed a lot of the good press that the Pioneer 1015 has gotten on various audio boards. Will be interesting to see if the new replacement model maintains the level of quality that Pioneer obviously put into the 1015 for a very reasonable price. Buyers should keep their fingers crossed that Pioneer doesn't start cutting corners like they did with their budget priced universal players when they switched from a Burr-Brown DAC model that could process a SACD's DSD signals directly, to a less expensive model that converted everything to PCM.

I get the sense that they've already cheaped out on the 1015 (relative to it's Elite model counterpart) in some less critical areas- I found the back panel and inputs to be a bit lower in quality than the rest of the unit for example...I didn't use the Tuner, but I've read it's not so great. Some say the Elites have a few better components inside, but I have no way of verifying it. I think there must be some merit though, or they'd be cannibalizing their low end Elite model. That said, from what I could see, this thing had it in every area that counts to most people...a heck of a nice unit for the money.


I might be looking at a similar lateral receiver upgrade when I start converting my video setup to HD. I plan to go with a fully digital video setup and would need a new DVD player anyway since my current player does not do progressive scan. With a HDMI satellite receiver and DVD player, this would make HDMI switching a more important feature to have. I've been looking at the RX-V1600 because I know that it uses the same Burr-Brown DACs that my SACD player uses, and have been very impressed with how that model handles SACD and CD audio. The HDMI 1.1 connection on that model allows for the receiver to decode DVD-A thru a digital connection, and that would be another good feature for me since I don't currently have a DVD-A player.

I've been getting 2 years out of my receivers on average for awhile now, so I'm hoping HDMI is more standard, affordable, and that BluRay or HD-DVD are common enough that new audio formats are decoded in my next receiver...otherwise I'll probably hold on to this one a bit longer...


I totally hear you about giving the nod to the brand that's done well for you in the past if things are otherwise a tossup. I've had nothing but positive dealings with Yamaha's build quality and customer service, so that would have to count for something when deciding between one of their products and a competing product with similar performance and features.

That was it for me, given the price difference and benefits, I was more comfortable with my track record with Yamaha. The Pioneer had an uphill battle to win me over in that regard.