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Rav
02-02-2006, 06:03 AM
Hello everyone,

I recently got a new 50" LCoS bigscreen which has HDMI inputs. My next step is to get an a/v receiver and a couple of front speakers to complement my TV with. I had done a bunch of research over a year ago on receivers, but ended up not being able to get one due to cash flow at the time. In starting up my research again I have found a distinct line drawn between receivers that support HDMI and those that do not.

I guess my ultimate question ends up being - is the price difference between two models of receivers where it looks like the only difference is the HDMI support worth it? I don't know anything about HDMI other than what I have read in a few threads here. Ultimately I think I have narrowed things down to this:

HDMI Support or No HDMI Support
Denon 3806 or Denon 3805
Yamaha V2600 or Yamaha V2500
Yamaha V1600 or Yamaha V1500
Pioneer VSX-72TX or Pioneer VSX-1015TX
Onkyo TX-SR803 or Onkyo TX-SR703

Obviously I have to go out and test drive these receivers but I was just curious what you all thought about the HDMI cost difference and the receivers in general. Will having the capability benefit in the years to come?

Sir Terrence the Terrible
02-02-2006, 06:15 AM
If I were shopping for a reciever now, a HDMI input would be as necessary as coaxial outputs for digital audio. Unfortunately any receiver with HDMI inputs would only have version 1.1 or possibly 1.2. I am not thinking about changing receivers until version 1.3 is approved, and in the receiver

agtpunx40
02-02-2006, 09:05 AM
I agree with Sir TTT. You will definatly want to take advantage of the new HD/Blue Ray formats once they become available. Many people will wait for the end of the "format wars" and whatever, but either way, you will want the more advanced HDMI on the reciever. I don't know your exact situation, but if it is readsonable to wait, I'd wait.

Rav
02-02-2006, 09:41 AM
I am not in any rush to get a receiver, just thought it would be a good time since I just got the new TV. I don't currently own a receiver so this would be my first one.

How long do you think it will be before a standard is settled upon? Or I guess more specifically the 1.3 standard TTT mentioned?

topspeed
02-02-2006, 10:21 AM
If you are planning on using multiple hi-def sources (BluRay, HD sat/cable, XBox 360, whatever) it would behoove you to get an avr with HDMI switching. A lot fewer cables and a LOT cleaner install. Think about it, one HDMI cable running to the set instead of 3 or 4! That alone makes is worth the extra expense.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
02-02-2006, 10:22 AM
I am not in any rush to get a receiver, just thought it would be a good time since I just got the new TV. I don't currently own a receiver so this would be my first one.

How long do you think it will be before a standard is settled upon? Or I guess more specifically the 1.3 standard TTT mentioned?

Ray, it is unknown right now how long it will take. However I suspect they are working on it right now. I am not going to replace mine until the standard is already in receivers and pre-pro's.

wayner86
02-02-2006, 03:38 PM
I guess it would depend on how long you plan to keep you equipment. If your tv, dvd player, and avr are hdmi 1.1 compliant, than i dont see the need in waiting until the 1.3 release unless you upgrade your a/v equipment regularly. From what i understand hdmi 1.1 can pass an hd video and audio signal as well as dvd-a, 1.2 SACD audio, 1.3 dolby digital plus and dts lossless codec. I haven't read about anything concerning compatibility issues with the new formats and old avr's, so i dont see the need to wait until the 1.3 release, unless the comming DD & DTS format is that important to you.

The only thing holding me back from picking up the Pio 72txv is the mail, once my cheque arrives im on my way to the local hi-fi to pick one up.

Rav
02-03-2006, 04:42 AM
Well I plan on keeping it for a long while. It will probably take me some time just to build up to a 5.1 system in all honesty. I just didn't know if it was worth the $200-300 extra to get a model with the support, especially if the standard is in the process of changing/improving. Honestly I know nothing about the 1.1 standard or what the 1.2 or 1.3 standards will bring, or if my TV will even be compatible with the newer standards? I can get by with just the audio on my TV for a while, but I don't want to wait forever to start building the HT system either. I guess that is ultimately why I was asking the experts here since I'm a total noob at this stuff :-)

L.J.
02-03-2006, 06:43 AM
Rav,

As Topspeed mentioned, it depends on your needs and what you plan on purchasing in the future. Your not gonna lose anything if you don't bother with HDMI right now. Most here do not have HDMI compatible AVR's and enjoy music and movies just fine. I like to run video from my 2910 directly to my TV and I do not have multiple HDMI sources so my 2805 takes care of all my needs just fine. Perhaps another a route you could take, is purchasing a recv in the 500 mark. This will leave you more money to get started with some really nice speakers up front, and you won't have too much invested in an AVR. That way, you can just upgrade your AVR when you're ready to do so. That gives you plenty of time to start building your HT and enjoying the music and movies. Just my .02 :)

Eric Z
02-03-2006, 08:37 AM
don't worry about advancing technologies; once the HDMI v1.3 is out, there will be something else on the horizon you will be wanting to wait for :D I say that as a smart aleck, but there's some truth to it- just like computers- you buy one and it's outdated in 1 month.

Whatever you decide, don't worry about what you could have done too much. Think about it enough so you learn, but then move on.

Enjoy!
Eric

edtyct
02-03-2006, 09:13 AM
If you want some pretense of being up to date, at least in foresight, you can refrain from buying an HDMI-equipped receiver or pre/pro now--thanks to the fact that we know at least some of what's in store for HDMI in the future. But digital or analog workarounds exist for most of the audio glitches that HDMI brings to the table now, and presumably later, if you can put up with multiple cables for a while and like the video option of HDMI for its own sake (another kettle of fish). Then again, you can always go directly to your display from your HDMI-equipped DVD player, video tuner, or both if you invest in an HDMI switch.

Rav
02-03-2006, 10:20 AM
So there are other options (ie. the HDMI switch you mentioned above) for utilizing this technology down the road if I were to go with a receiver that did not have the capability? Honestly, I think I would be fine going with a setup that didn't necessarily utilize HDMI. The part I am unsure of is if I would upgrade the receiver in the near future just to gain the HDMI capability which is why I was trying to decide now if it was worth it. You all make good points though that since the HDMI is new to receivers, people have been getting by just fine without them up to this point. I think I like the suggestion of taking the extra $ and putting it toward speakers. Once HDMI stablizes a bit I can always upgrade or if there are other options out there to utilize it I can explore those. Thanks for all the input so far, this has been great!

L.J.
02-03-2006, 10:53 AM
So there are other options (ie. the HDMI switch you mentioned above) for utilizing this technology down the road if I were to go with a receiver that did not have the capability? Honestly, I think I would be fine going with a setup that didn't necessarily utilize HDMI. The part I am unsure of is if I would upgrade the receiver in the near future just to gain the HDMI capability which is why I was trying to decide now if it was worth it. You all make good points though that since the HDMI is new to receivers, people have been getting by just fine without them up to this point. I think I like the suggestion of taking the extra $ and putting it toward speakers. Once HDMI stablizes a bit I can always upgrade or if there are other options out there to utilize it I can explore those. Thanks for all the input so far, this has been great!

Yup, I wouldn't worry. Just do a google for HDMI switch and you'll find all kinds of options. Here's (http://store.homeavcables.com/hdmi-e41.html) an example. No need to even worry about it until you have multiple HDMI sources. Like others have mentioned, waiting for HDMI to mature and the new formats to get settled in seems like the best thing to do. In the mean time, sit back, relax and enjoy. Hey, this seems like a great weekend to start auditioning speakers! ;)

SlumpBuster
02-03-2006, 12:05 PM
So I don't have HD yet, so I'm not entirely clear on the HDMI thing. But, two questions that I thought I had a handle on, but now I'm not so sure:

1. Does HDMI out of an HD DVD or Blue Ray or HD cable box carrie sound and video?

2. Won't prospective players, HD DVD or Blue Ray, still have regular Dolby Digital audio output and component video output. That way I can still use the thing even if its is with down converted signals?

I'm so confused. :(

L.J.
02-03-2006, 12:54 PM
So I don't have HD yet, so I'm not entirely clear on the HDMI thing. But, two questions that I thought I had a handle on, but now I'm not so sure:

1. Does HDMI out of an HD DVD or Blue Ray or HD cable box carrie sound and video?

2. Won't prospective players, HD DVD or Blue Ray, still have regular Dolby Digital audio output and component video output. That way I can still use the thing even if its is with down converted signals?

I'm so confused. :(

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but unless recv comes out that can decode the new audio formats, the decoding will be done in the player and we will need to use the 5.1 analog in/outs.

Check out the specs on this HD player:

plays HD DVD high-definition discs (selectable 720p/1080i output available through HDMI output only — HDMI cable included)
» plays DVD-Video, DVD-R & DVD-RW, and DVD-RAM
» plays CD, audio CD-R & CD-RW, and MP3 and WMA CD-R & CD-RW
» selectable 720p/1080i video upconversion for DVD (upconverted video available through HDMI output only)
» built-in audio decoding for Dolby® Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD lossless (2-ch.), DTS® and DTS-HD lossless
» HDMI digital output (combines video and multichannel audio with HDCP copy protection)
» 1 set of A/V outputs (composite video, S-video, and component video)
» stereo and 5.1-channel audio outputs
» coaxial and optical digital audio outputs
» Ethernet port for access to Internet-based content
» two front-panel USB ports
» remote control (multibrand for TV)
» 216MHz/11-bit video D/A converter
» multichannel 192kHz/24-bit audio D/A converters
» 17"W x 4"H x 14"D
» warranty: 1 year parts, 90 days labor
» Want more peace of mind? Extended Service Plans Available
» viewing high-definition HD DVD content requires an HDTV or HD-ready TV with HDMI input
» DVD movie playback is restricted to "Region 1" coded discs

Jim Clark
02-03-2006, 02:20 PM
» viewing high-definition HD DVD content requires an HDTV or HD-ready TV with HDMI input


This was reported on this forum in the past couple of weeks and has me completely freaked out. My Sony KDF 55XS955 has 2 dvi inputs and 0 HDMI's. I hope that the DVI/HDMI cables will work or I'm just completely screwed. I do NOT want to have to explain this to my wife!

It's exactly this kind of thing that makes me realize how long it's going to be before the new formats see the light of day. When they finally do arrive the backlash is going to be something to behold.

Regards,
jc

Supamike
02-03-2006, 02:26 PM
I'll join the ranks of those who are confused or frustrated by this whole HDMI business. IMHO, this is a little different than computer technology, and here's why:

-- The whole "version" thing of HDMI is annoying. What version is currently "standard"? 1.0? 1.1? No-one seems to tag their products like they did with USB or even specify the version in the specification of the product. So are receivers now, like the Pioneer VSX-72TX, using 1.1, 1.2? When is 1.3 coming out? Is there an anticipated release date? How fast will the standard move to production?

-- The deal with HDMI is that the word is that if you eventually move to Blu-Ray/HD-DVD/etc., the signal will HAVE to be transferred via HDMI to be seen for copy protection.

-- Some people say "Don't worry about it... you will do fine without HDMI". Sure, it'll work NOW. But in 1-2 years, when I buy a new TV and want to get a Blu-Ray player, will it then? I guess I could dump another $400 on a switch, but that's annoying. Of course, I'm sure the price of those will go down, too, but instead of decreasing my cables, I'm adding a component and INCREASING my cables.

-- Many USB-based systems are firmware upgradable. I think if AVR mfr's are going to start including HDMI, they need to also start figuring out a way to flash them to newer versions. This is important for compliance as well as bug-fixes.

-- There is very little information about backwards compatibility. If I have a DVD player that is 1.1, an AVR that is 1.2, and a TV that is 1.3, first how will I even know, and second will they even speak the same language? There is little consumer understanding there.

I've checked out the HDMI.org site, and I learned very little. It's great that it APPEARS as if it'll be a standard, but right now it's a bit like purchasing real estate in Iraq... it's a speculative endeavor, at best.

edtyct
02-03-2006, 02:31 PM
Jim,

DVI should work. It has all the requisites. Besides, Toshiba's official product announcement for the first HD DVD player includes mention of DVI.

Ed

Jim Clark
02-03-2006, 02:33 PM
Jim,

DVI should work. It has all the requisites. Besides, Toshiba's official product announcement for the first HD DVD player includes mention of DVI.

Ed

You know what? I just read the manual, I do have 2 HDMI inputs. Who knew? Reading the manual is vastly under rated. I'm sure they're not any version that's going to do me a bit of good, but I do apparently have them.

Whew,
jc

edtyct
02-03-2006, 02:41 PM
Your HDMI inputs will certainly handle the video part okay. The audio will be changing through the various iterations, but I'll be surprised if analog and digital workarounds don't continue to exist.

Rav
02-06-2006, 06:12 AM
Well I think I will probably wait on the HDMI until it stabilizes some. I'm not too worried about the number of cables and it seems that using component should handle thigns just fine. Thanks for all of your feedback on this. I'll save the $300 extra and put it toward speakers :-)

Bonofied Suitor
02-15-2006, 07:04 AM
Proceed with caution if you have a HDMI cable box or Satellite receiver or DVR and want to switch sources through the receiver.. I called Denon tech support to check if there were any issues and was informed that they and most other manufacturers of HDMI switching receivers are having problems. He said that the problem is on the other end as the manufacturers of the cable and satellite recievers are not playing well with others.