What exactly does an amp do ?

[Dmax]

I recently celebrated my 17th birthday and HT has become a huge hobby of mines. I've recently put my first HT system together piece by piece and im very proud of it but my question is what is an amp for and will it contribute to my receiver and speakers. Will it give my receiver more noticeable power? Will my speakers sound significantly better ? Will it make a huge difference in my surround and stereo sound for the better ? And what do I look for in a starters amp for the applications listed above ? :confused: Please help

[Dmax]

I recently celebrated my 17th birthday and HT has become a huge hobby of mines. I've recently put my first HT system together piece by piece and im very proud of it but my question is what is an amp for and will it contribute to my receiver and speakers. Will it give my receiver more noticeable power? Will my speakers sound significantly better ? Will it make a huge difference in my surround and stereo sound for the better ? And what do I look for in a starters amp for the applications listed above ? :confused: Please help
I guess we're to big to educate a 17 year old novice trying to learn more about amps and how they benefit our HT systems.Thanks guys I guess I'll just have to find a real learning source other you snobs that feel you're to advanced to answer a question like this. Moderators are you listening, can you at least help ?

[markw]

You've been here for a while now and I'm pretty sure this subject has (these subjects have) come up in various threads over that period of time. Sometimes, the search function can provide exactly the answer you are looking for although you might have to read a few posts.

This place has wunnerful FAQ's and various other areas whereby one can read, absorb and thereby learn.

http://www.audioholics.com/

Remember, most of us here have learned either by experience, reading, or both. Not just by posting in a web site and waiting for others to do all the work for us. I'm sure you can do it too, should you choose.

[Kaboom]

Whoa dude give them a break! this isnt what you call a high-traffic forum. If you're looking to get your questions answered within the hour, you're in the wrong place. better try audio asylum for that, for example. but i find that's massified, and every thread seems to turn into a flame war before the 5th post.
So, concerning your question...
Basically an poweramp is a fixed-gain amplification stage, usually at around 29-30 Db of amplification.
this means it'll take a line-level signal and boost it by that fixed amount. In your case, this signal is provided by the reciever's pre-outs. The real deal with amps is that since they are dedicated, they tend to have VERY big power supplies that can supply the juice needed to drive inneficient speakers to loud levels without clipping or sounding compressed. this means that explosions will just sound "better" because the extra power provides a lot of headroom, which in turn means that the amp isnt struggling to send the needed current to the speakers.
Besides the power issue, they can also sound better than your reciever if the amp design is better, or if its built with better quality parts.
Will it make a noticeable improvement? you'll never get an answer to this one. Some people say that amps that measure the same sound the same. Basically ALL solid state amps beyond a hundred clams nowadays measure the same, or very close, so basically let your ears do the listening. they tend to help much more if you're driving low-impedance, low-sensitivity speakers.
Will it make a HUGE difference? i'd be willing to bet it wont make a huge difference. It might make some difference. LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN!!
i hope this "educated" you
btw i'm 19
Cheers!

[topspeed]

I guess we're to big to educate a 17 year old novice trying to learn more about amps and how they benefit our HT systems.Thanks guys I guess I'll just have to find a real learning source other you snobs that feel you're to advanced to answer a question like this. Moderators are you listening, can you at least help ?
OK smartass, did you consider that when you made your first post, it was only 7am on the West Coast?

I have a question for you: Why should any of the knowledgeable members here be inclined to help some snot nosed kid suffering from ADD that whines when he doesn't receive a response on his timetable?

You're lucky there are those more charitable than I on this forum.

17? Are you sure that wasn't a typo? 7 seems more apropos.

[Dmax]

Whoa dude give them a break! this isnt what you call a high-traffic forum. If you're looking to get your questions answered within the hour, you're in the wrong place. better try audio asylum for that, for example. but i find that's massified, and every thread seems to turn into a flame war before the 5th post.
So, concerning your question...
Basically an poweramp is a fixed-gain amplification stage, usually at around 29-30 Db of amplification.
this means it'll take a line-level signal and boost it by that fixed amount. In your case, this signal is provided by the reciever's pre-outs. The real deal with amps is that since they are dedicated, they tend to have VERY big power supplies that can supply the juice needed to drive inneficient speakers to loud levels without clipping or sounding compressed. this means that explosions will just sound "better" because the extra power provides a lot of headroom, which in turn means that the amp isnt struggling to send the needed current to the speakers.
Besides the power issue, they can also sound better than your reciever if the amp design is better, or if its built with better quality parts.
Will it make a noticeable improvement? you'll never get an answer to this one. Some people say that amps that measure the same sound the same. Basically ALL solid state amps beyond a hundred clams nowadays measure the same, or very close, so basically let your ears do the listening. they tend to help much more if you're driving low-impedance, low-sensitivity speakers.
Will it make a HUGE difference? i'd be willing to bet it wont make a huge difference. It might make some difference. LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN!!
i hope this "educated" you
btw i'm 19
Cheers!
Thank you so much Kaboom, I really appriciate you taking the time to explain this and markw .

[L.J.]

Thank you so much Kaboom, I really appriciate you taking the time to explain this and markw and topspeed go suck a @#%% and your mothers are #@!+% :p

:confused: . Not cool dude!

[Resident Loser]

Thank you so much Kaboom, I really appriciate you taking the time to explain this and markw and topspeed go suck a @#%% and your mothers are #@!+% :p

...aren't we a special little fellow?

I assume you are aware that amp is verbal shorthand for amplifier...and can we guess at what an amplifier does...well it amp-li-fies things...

Some might suggest that you buy a huge, powerful amp and wire the speaker outputs from your little HT receiver to the inputs of the huge, powerful amp...I mean what's better than bi-amping...power, power and more power...da bomb!!!

I wouldn't suggest it...it could really behave like da bomb...What I would suggest is that you stick your head back up your @$$, make yourself comfy while mommy gets you some hot milk and a cookie and then hold your breath until you get another answer nearly as nice and friendly as this one was.

jimHJJ(...aren't there age restrictions here of some sort...)

[topspeed]

What I would suggest is that you stick your head back up your @$$, make yourself comfy while mommy gets you some hot milk and a cookie and then hold your breath until you get another answer nearly as nice and friendly as this one was.


mmmph...





snicker...





snort...














bwaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!! :D:D:D

OMG! THAT was funny!!!

[markw]

Thank you so much Kaboom, I really appriciate you taking the time to explain this and markw and topspeed go suck a @#%% and your mothers are #@!+% ...

...I agree but if one doesnt have anything nice to say then dont say %@*#. Thinking you can look down and make smartass comments to a person because there asking questions that you know the answers to isnt any cooler. All the time these so called mature men took to bash me they could have just as well answered the question or simply not responded at all.I attempted to teach you to fish, not just sit on the dock begging for a handout. ...andin a fairly non-demeaning manner I believe.

...and then you go insulting me and my mother? Nice guy...

I guess you're simply not ready to think for yourself. Maybe when you grow up a little more I'll tty again but as long as you can beg handouts, why should you learn to think for yourself.

...come to think of it, I do believe you've had a similar outburst like this in the past, no? ..and with me even, no? Well, foolish me. That'll teach me to give ya another chance..

[E-Stat]

I recently celebrated my 17th birthday and HT has become a huge hobby of mines.
I'm not exactly sure how detailed an answer you seek. Yes, typically separate power amplifiers are qualitatively better than receivers and more power buys you headroom. I suggest you do some reading either on the 'net or the conventional way using books and magazines. By your age, I was already four years into the audio hobby and had a pretty nice system. I read a bunch, visited audio stores, and listened. And better learned who to read to achieve my goals.

As for response time to your query, quite a few of us work during the day to feed the habit. :)

rw

[Geoffcin]

People are going to read this thread looking for info and find a flame war instead of info?

Got nothing to add, add nothing.

Dmax,

Here's some infor for you;

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/amplifier3.htm

Now play nice with the locals.

[Dmax]

Thanx Kaboom,E-Stat,and Geoffcin for the info. Im sorry for causing a stir ,I shall analyze myself while eating my milk and cookies in bed. Goodnight guys and once again thanx.

[markw]

Got nothing to add, add nothing.Really? I do believe I set him on the path to enlightenment and all I got for it was insults directed to my mother and myself. ...and this after his whining about not getting an answer in less than three hours.

You may have edited it out of hispost but it's still there, quoted in other posts, if it doesn't get deleted also.

Nice guy... If this type of child is typical of the new audience you're aiming for it's fairly obvious why the posts are becoming fewer and fewer and the posts at other sites I frequent are getting more and more numerous. ...and will continue to do so. They simply don't tolerate this type of behavior.

[Dmax]

Thanx Kaboom,E-Stat,and Geoffcin for the info. Im sorry for causing a stir ,I shall analyze myself while eating my milk and cookies in bed. Goodnight guys and once again thanx.
Sweet dreams markw ;)

[markw]

Sweet dreams markw ;)I'm sure she would be proud of her little boy.

[markw]

You're actually proud of yourself, aren't ya?

I think I'll just post a link to this thread the next time you ask a question so everyone can see what a nice guy you are and will want to answer you, OK?

[Dmax]

You're actually proud of yourself, aren't ya?

I think I'll just post a link to this thread the next time you ask a question so everyone can see what a nice guy you are and will want to answer you, OK?Thats just mean! Im going to tell your wife on you,but first im going to tell your husband on you, OK ? :mad:

[PAT.P]

Dmax Take your hot milk,cookies ,blanky and go to bed.

[Geoffcin]

Really? I do believe I set him on the path to enlightenment and all I got for it was insults directed to my mother and myself. ...and this after his whining about not getting an answer in less than three hours.

You may have edited it out of hispost but it's still there, quoted in other posts, if it doesn't get deleted also.

Nice guy... If this type of child is typical of the new audience you're aiming for it's fairly obvious why the posts are becoming fewer and fewer and the posts at other sites I frequent are getting more and more numerous. ...and will continue to do so. They simply don't tolerate this type of behavior.

Does that mean you have to play along?

[Geoffcin]

Thats just mean! Im going to tell your wife on you,but first im going to tell your husband on you, OK ? :mad:

I asked you to play nice and you didn't. This time your suspenion is only one day. Next time it won't be.

[Resident Loser]

I asked you to play nice and you didn't. This time your suspenion is only one day. Next time it won't be.

...G, so please indulge me...brite-eyes has a history of this sort of behavior...but even without any other evidence, he/she/it has been around long enough to pick up on the basics, as markw (referred to as grandpa in one of the childs' earlier tirades BTW) rightly pointed out.

I don't think anyone here has a problem helping the noobs and if he/she/it had a join date of Dec. '05 and had posted a few Qs indicative of his learning-curve of the basics, there most likely wouldn't have been a problem...he, however, simply wants things served up on a silver platter without putting himself out or exhibiting any inclination to do some investigation, even when suggestions for the whereabouts of self-educational material AND links are provided...

This most recent episode simply typifies his "style"...asks a really bush-league question and then not given what he wants, when he wants it, goes off on a p!$$y sugar-jag, bad-mouthing everyone within earshot...that sort of thing probably works well with his over-indulgent mommy and daddy, so he thinks that same tactic will work everywhere.

I know when I try to answer most posts, when not dealing with the general stuff, I'm required to do some research for particulars re: specific makes and models, etc. While it can be a learing experience for me, it takes time and effort. Perhaps we all should check out the "join date/number of posts" info, and if the question seems untoward in light of that info, either not bother to respond or check out the "view profile/find all posts" option of the poster to see if it's worth our while.

Should we "play along" and simply appear to be a part of the problem? Probably not, but at his age, everyone, everywhere should learn there ain't no free lunch and every action has the potential for an equal but opposite reaction.

jimHJJ(...thanks...)

[markw]

Does that mean you have to play along?I don't know how you feel about it but I don't take too kindly to some snip insulting me and my mother publicly, particularly when I tried to help him. Heck, I was even fairly light on him in my second entry here and tried to point out whre he might have misunderstood my post. ..and he just thought it was a joke.

It seems the moderators did, too. By y'all simply giving him the answer he wanted, that implied (to me, at least) that y'all had no problems with the way he conducted himself and had more of a problem with the responses he received.

Yes, you DID edit out the most offensive parts of his rant but, by you moderators neglecting to admonish him for his actions, you simply gave him your tacit approval and encouraged his actions, as evidenced by his subsequent posts.

Remember, there are mainly two types of people on these sites. Those that exist to ask questions and those that answer them. This is the only one I can recall that always asks questions and truly believes that the answers are owed to him and, as is the case here, in a timely fashion. When he don't get the easy answers or gets them quicky enough,he feels he has the right to be rude.

Youth is no excuse for his actions. There are other young people on this forum who conduct themselves with dignity. Poor upbringing, possibly, but that's not something we should have to deal with.

I thought it was up to the moderators to "moderate" the behaviour on this site, not encourage anti-social behaviour. This wasn't his first outburst and, believe me, it won't be his last. You don't need his kind here.

[Geoffcin]

I don't know how you feel about it but I don't take too kindly to some snip insulting me and my mother publicly, particularly when I tried to help him. Heck, I was even fairly light on him in my isecond entry here. ..and he just thought it was a joke.

Itseems the moderators did, too. By your simply giving him the answer he wanted, that implied (to me, at least) that y'all had no problems with the way he handled himself and had more of a problem with the responses he received.

Yes, you DID edit out the most offensive parts of his rant but, by you moderators neglecting to admonish him for his actions, you simply gave him your tacit approval and encouraged his actions, as evidenced by his subsequent posts.

Youth is no excuse for his actions. There are other young people on this forum who conduct themselves with dignity. Poor upbringing, possibly, but that's not something we should have to deal with. I thought it was up to the moderators to "moderate" the behaviour on this site, not encourage anti-social behaviour.

This wasn't his first outburst and, believe me, it won't be his last. You don't need his kind here.

I told him to behave, and he didn't, so he drew a suspension. I don't hand those out often.

Still, this could have been a decent thread, it's got a good title.

[markw]

I told him to behave, and he didn't, so he drew a suspension. I don't hand those out often..Apparently you weren't clear enough in communicating your displeasure to him. It certainly appeared he was proud of involving the mods here, which was his stated goal in post 2. Cry enough and be abusive enough until he gets the attention he wanted. Yep, you sure told him, all right.



Still, this could have been a decent thread, it's got a good title.Yeah, it coulda been a contenda, at least until his second post less than three hours after the first one when he started betch slapping everyone in earshot and started begging for the moderators to save his poor, innocent, defenseless arse.

[E-Stat]

Apparently you weren't clear enough in communicating your displeasure to him. It certainly appeared he was proud of involving the mods here, which was his stated goal in post 2. Cry enough and be abusive enough until he gets the attention he wanted. Yep, you sure told him, all right.
Geoff deleted one of his completely inappropriate posts. If he doesn't get the message from that, then he will find all his posts suddenly missing.

rw

[markw]

Geoff deleted one of his completely inappropriate posts. If he doesn't get the message from that, then he will find all his posts suddenly missing.

rwWhen you first made your appearance in this thread, he had already cursed out us and our mothers. You simply complied to his demand for moderator intervention by answering the original question* and totally ignored his rude outburst in a prior post. If that's not "tacit approval" of such behaviour, then I don't know what is.

When dealing with children, negative behaviour should be corrected, not ignored, much less rewarded.

*The funny thing is that your answer was not a whole lot different than mine.

[E-Stat]

When you first made your appearance in this thread, he had already cursed out us and our mothers.
Were you ever 17 once?


You simply complied to his demand for moderator intervention by answering the original question* and totally ignored his rude outburst in a prior post.
Fortunately, I rarely need to intervene as a moderator. I was responding to the question just as another guy. I prefer to lead by example.

Geoff has already smacked him. Let's wait and see the results...

Hopefully he realizes that you were offering help.

rw

[markw]

LBJ was president. IT was "the summer of Love". Viet Nam was on. I just got my license and drove an old '57 Dodge with no floorboards to speak of.

I had been reading Audio, High Fidelity and Stereo Review for several years now.

Over the previous few years I had also taught myself, with the help of the library and some donor TV's and radios, basic electronics and had a small business repairing these things.

I had built a 6L6 based amp a few years prior as a learning exercise and, on my 15the birthday, broke down and bought a Lafayette stereo (LA-224A, Garrard AT-60 and Criterion 50 speakers).

I graduated high school at 17. I sold stereos for EJ Korvettes as my first full time job. Within two years I was managing the audio concession in Macy's/Bamberger's for the Tandy corp. and bought a 4 year old Jaguar with my own money and paid my own insurance..

I didn't ask strangers for the answers to all my questions and then shiit on them because they weren't fast enough or complete enough. This must be something endemic to this new generation where one can be as big a rude, obnoxious baby and hide behind the anonymity of the internet.

[thekid]

The recent unpleasantness aside.......

My Sony sub ( SA-WM200 )has a 75-watt built in amp. I have a Pioneer VSX-815 which produces plenty of volume for the room but would I gain anything by running the speakers through the sub and then out to the receiver?

I'd like my answer in the next 5 minutes....... :)
Sorry could not resist a little poke......... :)

[markw]

The recent unpleasantness aside.......

My Sony sub ( SA-WM200 )has a 75-watt built in amp. I have a Pioneer VSX-815 which produces plenty of volume for the room but would I gain anything by running the speakers through the sub and then out to the receiver?

I'd like my answer in the next 5 minutes....... :)
Sorry could not resist a little poke......... :)Is your first name "Johnny"? ;)

Seriously, if you are running your speakers as "small" I wouldn't expect much difference. If you DO choose to experiment with this then set your receiver's sub output to "off" and run your front mains as "large" or "full range", whatever it takes. this way the sub's internal crossover will do the LFE.

As far as strain on the amp, while yes, it WILL be producing the full range through it, but the way these powered subs work is that it will present a fairly high impedance at the low frequencies to your amp so it won't be straining as much as you might think.

It's kinda like having a tandem bike with a big guy on the back who only peddles on the inclines.

[thekid]

Is your first name "Johnny"? ;)

Seriously, if you are running your speakers as "small" I wouldn't expect much difference. If you DO choose to experiment with this then set your receiver's sub output to "off" and run your front mains as "large" or "full range", whatever it takes. this way the sub's internal crossover will do the LFE.

As far as strain on the amp, while yes, it WILL be producing the full range through it, but the way these powered subs work is that it will present a fairly high impedance at the low frequencies to your amp so it won't be straining as much as you might think.

It's kinda like having a tandem bike with a big guy on the back who only peddles on the inclines.

Thanks MarkW.

I do run my current set up as small since they are only bookshelf speakers.
I think I will just leave well enough alone as far running things through the sub.
I am going to soon upgrade to a new sub with a 250-watt built in amp so I assume your advice would still stand.

I have been debating adding a stand alone amp but for the price range ($100-$200) I can afford it probably is money best saved for something else.

Despite all that has been going on in this post I do appreciate the info and feedback from you and the other AV vets on this site.

[markw]

Despite all that has been going on in this post I do appreciate the info and feedback from you and the other AV vets on this site.It's nice to know that we're appreciated. Everyone here participates voluntarily and yet some persist on acting as if they paid a fee for professional services and demand instant, personalized service.

We know that it only takes one or two rotten apples to spoil the whole barrel but that doesn't mean we'll (well, me at least) will just simply sit back and take it from those few.

[Geoffcin]

The recent unpleasantness aside.......

My Sony sub ( SA-WM200 )has a 75-watt built in amp. I have a Pioneer VSX-815 which produces plenty of volume for the room but would I gain anything by running the speakers through the sub and then out to the receiver?

I'd like my answer in the next 5 minutes....... :)
Sorry could not resist a little poke......... :)

I think your asking if the sub will get more power from the receiver than it's own internal 75watts. The short answer is no.

The high level (speaker inputs) will not pass high level current to the sub. The inputs are hooked up in the sub in a way that allows the sub to only sample the signal, and attenuate the lower frequencys (filter) before sending it on to the speakers through the output. The only reason that you would want to hook this up this way (with the speaker wires insted of the RCA jack) is if your using a reciever or amp that does not have a dedicated sub RCA output. Your Pioneer receiver does have this, and that's the best way to hook it up.

[thekid]

I think your asking if the sub will get more power from the receiver than it's own internal 75watts. The short answer is no.

The high level (speaker inputs) will not pass high level current to the sub. The inputs are hooked up in the sub in a way that allows the sub to only sample the signal, and attenuate the lower frequencys (filter) before sending it on to the speakers through the output. The only reason that you would want to hook this up this way (with the speaker wires insted of the RCA jack) is if your using a reciever or amp that does not have a dedicated sub RCA output. Your Pioneer receiver does have this, and that's the best way to hook it up.

Geo
Thanks for the response.
As I understand your answer the sub amp is only useful if your reciver does not have a seperate sub jack

I had read in some of the responses/links on this topic that the primary purpose of the amp was to help boost power which can help reduce distoration. Admittedly I do not play my system at loud volumes anyway so distortion is not really an issue any way. In your opinion, given my current configuration (see profile) of bookshelf speaker would I gain anything using my recievers pre-outs to hook up additional amps?


Again I appreciate the feedback that you and the other sages of the site provide. It is like having a handy reference manual sitting on the desk.

[Geoffcin]

Geo
Thanks for the response.
As I understand your answer the sub amp is only useful if your reciver does not have a seperate sub jack

I had read in some of the responses/links on this topic that the primary purpose of the amp was to help boost power which can help reduce distoration. Admittedly I do not play my system at loud volumes anyway so distortion is not really an issue any way. In your opinion, given my current configuration (see profile) of bookshelf speaker would I gain anything using my recievers pre-outs to hook up additional amps?


Again I appreciate the feedback that you and the other sages of the site provide. It is like having a handy reference manual sitting on the desk.

Your best bet is to upgrade your speakers first. The Axiom system that I recently reviewed would be a good upgrade, but might just be a bit out of your budget.

[thekid]

Your best bet is to upgrade your speakers first. The Axiom system that I recently reviewed would be a good upgrade, but might just be a bit out of your budget.

Thanks again GEO!
You have confirmed my suspicions.
The long term plan is a speaker upgrade that will put the current HT that is in my family room in the MB. In the mean time I can do a little research and find the right speakers.

[Dmax]

It's nice to know that we're appreciated. Everyone here participates voluntarily and yet some persist on acting as if they paid a fee for professional services and demand instant, personalized service.

We know that it only takes one or two rotten apples to spoil the whole barrel but that doesn't mean we'll (well, me at least) will just simply sit back and take it from those few.Get over it :D

[Geoffcin]

Get over it :D

With Mark, or anyone else here. You've had your warning and that's it.

[L.J.]

Kids these days! :D

[PAT.P]

Kids these days! :DOnly one thing to do :D

[Glen B]

[QUOTE=Kaboom]If you're looking to get your questions answered within the hour, you're in the wrong place. better try audio asylum for that, for example. but i find that's massified, and every thread seems to turn into a flame war before the 5th post.[QUOTE]

Kaboom, I find it funny that the same thing used to be said about AudioReview by the folks at AA in the years before you joined up (i.e., that AR was "flame city"). :D Things here are totally different now, more or less.