Bellari VP129 tubed phono stage

[KitR]

>Logged on, saw the "got my bellari" thread , went away - gone! So I'm starting my own. I've had mine for nearly two years now, picked it up for $80.00 on ebay once I decided that tubes were the answer. After reading the threads I agree wih what's said - for a new owner that is. However, this thing GROWS on you. Initially I was mildly disappointed, the sound being less tubey than expected. I found out why: it's the Sovtek LPS tube - the "COOL" tube. So I hunted round for a hot one. The tube I decided on was the Electro-Harmonix 12AX7EH - the last 2 letters being VERY important. Once again, one had the break in period during which I was thinking maybe I've made a mistake...then period over and this thing starts to SING! It's superior in every respect to my B&K Pro 5's phono input: especially so running in passive mode. Playing the new Cream @ RAH2005 vinyl album is fantastic( I was at their VERY FIRST first gig in '66 by the way!Memories!). the you are THERE feeling is palpable and the sense of listening to something real instead of just great sound is VERY strong. What this baby does with a drum kit frosts every cookie with a thick coating! Not bad on classical either. HiFiITIS completely gone. Now, what do I do?!If you're looking for the ultimate sure I've not doubt spending a lot more you'll find it but you'll need to spend a lot! You can pick up a EH @ PartsExpress.com for $15-20incl S&H, or seek one out on ebay - where I bought 4 for $5.00 each.
RIG for those interested;
Systemdek IIX T/T w/SOTA Acrylic Supermat & Reflex clamp, Extreme phono mat underneath those.
Rega RB300arm w/Cardas rewire & Elys2 cartridge
B&K Pro5 + 2xST-140M's pre + pwr amps
Magneplanar SMGc
HSU TN1225x2 subs
oh, and a Sony SACD player!
I've never enjoyed recorded music so much in my life. For those that can afford one, hurry up, the normal shop price is increasing by 50 bucks soon. BTW you can get this cheaper by buying from Pro music shops. I've seen it new for $150, spend the extra on the Harmonix tube.

[dean_martin]

My Bellari is on the way. I didn't price shop much - the extent of my price shopping was to note that the list price is increasing from $199 to $249 as of today or tomorrow. I bought mine at lpgear.com where I found the cartridge I wanted at a very nice price and got free shipping on both.

I was concerned about the relatively low output rating - 30dB - but others have said that this is the measurement w/the level set at 12:00 and that its output at full volume measures above 37dB with the stock tube and at 39dB with a certain after market tube.

Thanks for the headsup on the 12AX7EH. I've been offered some nos RCA 7025s that I'm considering for my Jolida integrated and perhaps the Bellari too. Apparently they're like the RCA 12AX7A except with lower noise and maybe made for hi-fi specifically. Are you familiar with this tube?

[KitR]

My Bellari is on the way. I didn't price shop much - the extent of my price shopping was to note that the list price is increasing from $199 to $249 as of today or tomorrow. I bought mine at lpgear.com where I found the cartridge I wanted at a very nice price and got free shipping on both.

I was concerned about the relatively low output rating - 30dB - but others have said that this is the measurement w/the level set at 12:00 and that its output at full volume measures above 37dB with the stock tube and at 39dB with a certain after market tube.

Thanks for the headsup on the 12AX7EH. I've been offered some nos RCA 7025s that I'm considering for my Jolida integrated and perhaps the Bellari too. Apparently they're like the RCA 12AX7A except with lower noise and maybe made for hi-fi specifically. Are you familiar with this tube?
**************************
Glad you mentioned the Jolida which is tubed/Hybrid? 'Cos I didn't mention I have two Pro 5's, but one has a tubed output stage I bought on ebay recently(GREAT for CD/SACDs! THE answer for Digital, believe me!. I'm actually enjoying my CD's and as for the SACD's, watch out vinyl!). It's waay better than the std version(it runs 2x6DJ8/6922 Sovteks but I swapped/'rolled them out for a pair of E-H's. They others are right re the output. not only that,but the increased level doesn't increase the noise at all, it seemed to me. I've run a Dynavector 10X4 with no losses. Anyway, the EH works best with the SS amp while the Sovtek sounds best for tubed pre-amplification(my opinion; but I've become less concerned with HIFI criteria of late, sooo). If you are running it through the Jolida, keep the Sovtek for the time being. Unfortunately I'm new to this tube game. For example I swapped out one of my 6922's for the 12AX7 in the Bellari and at first it seemed fine, but then it got very hot and the sound started getting reedy and reduced in volume. So it's slightly more complicated than I thought. But I would think if the 7025s are in the spec ballpark and you're getting a deal, I'd say go for it. The older NOS's - this is perusing the Tube Store and others - are EXPENSIVE, so grab 'em. One word of advice when buying tubes is if you're replacing pairs, you'll need to have 'em matched, mine aren't and it's a good thing the Pro 5 has a balance control! One other thing, be patient, the VP129 seems to take a long time to run-in:( Leave it on for at least 24hrs continuously) but then...I'm hooked I admit it. I planned to sell it when I got the tubed Pro5; not now! Hope this helps.

[Bernd]

My Bellari is on the way. I didn't price shop much - the extent of my price shopping was to note that the list price is increasing from $199 to $249 as of today or tomorrow. I bought mine at lpgear.com where I found the cartridge I wanted at a very nice price and got free shipping on both.

I was concerned about the relatively low output rating - 30dB - but others have said that this is the measurement w/the level set at 12:00 and that its output at full volume measures above 37dB with the stock tube and at 39dB with a certain after market tube.

Thanks for the headsup on the 12AX7EH. I've been offered some nos RCA 7025s that I'm considering for my Jolida integrated and perhaps the Bellari too. Apparently they're like the RCA 12AX7A except with lower noise and maybe made for hi-fi specifically. Are you familiar with this tube?

Hi Dean,

The 7025 version has extra thick micas which usualy means less distortion. They can be used in critical Audio circuits. Also take a look at the GE 7025.Also the 5751 is a fine tube although with less gain. Conrad johnson used these. The military specs are great,very quiet,cheap and plentyful.

Have fun

Bernd

[Bernd]

**************************
Glad you mentioned the Jolida which is tubed/Hybrid? 'Cos I didn't mention I have two Pro 5's, but one has a tubed output stage I bought on ebay recently(GREAT for CD/SACDs! THE answer for Digital, believe me!. I'm actually enjoying my CD's and as for the SACD's, watch out vinyl!). It's waay better than the std version(it runs 2x6DJ8/6922 Sovteks but I swapped/'rolled them out for a pair of E-H's. They others are right re the output. not only that,but the increased level doesn't increase the noise at all, it seemed to me. I've run a Dynavector 10X4 with no losses. Anyway, the EH works best with the SS amp while the Sovtek sounds best for tubed pre-amplification(my opinion; but I've become less concerned with HIFI criteria of late, sooo). If you are running it through the Jolida, keep the Sovtek for the time being. Unfortunately I'm new to this tube game. For example I swapped out one of my 6922's for the 12AX7 in the Bellari and at first it seemed fine, but then it got very hot and the sound started getting reedy and reduced in volume. So it's slightly more complicated than I thought. But I would think if the 7025s are in the spec ballpark and you're getting a deal, I'd say go for it. The older NOS's - this is perusing the Tube Store and others - are EXPENSIVE, so grab 'em. One word of advice when buying tubes is if you're replacing pairs, you'll need to have 'em matched, mine aren't and it's a good thing the Pro 5 has a balance control! One other thing, be patient, the VP129 seems to take a long time to run-in:( Leave it on for at least 24hrs continuously) but then...I'm hooked I admit it. I planned to sell it when I got the tubed Pro5; not now! Hope this helps.

Hi,

The 6922's are not the same as, or interchangeable with, the 12AX7's.

Bernd

[KitR]

Hi,

The 6922's are not the same as, or interchangeable with, the 12AX7's.

Bernd
So I noticed! But not for about 15 minutes of running fine in the Bellari. Mind you, when I tried the reverse on the Pro5(mod) it had a heart attack, but recovered. What surprised me is that there seemed to be no permanent damage to either after the rolling exercise. Still, never know until you try - or read the right books. Nice thing learning new(old!) stuff!

[Bernd]

So I noticed! But not for about 15 minutes of running fine in the Bellari. Mind you, when I tried the reverse on the Pro5(mod) it had a heart attack, but recovered. What surprised me is that there seemed to be no permanent damage to either after the rolling exercise. Still, never know until you try - or read the right books. Nice thing learning new(old!) stuff!

Glad you have caused no permanent damage. For a crash course take a look at www.machmat.com
He is a dealer from the Netherlands and has a great site. Take some time-you can learn a lot about what tube can be exchanged for what.

Have fun

Bernd

[dean_martin]

Hi Dean,

The 7025 version has extra thick micas which usualy means less distortion. They can be used in critical Audio circuits. Also take a look at the GE 7025.Also the 5751 is a fine tube although with less gain. Conrad johnson used these. The military specs are great,very quiet,cheap and plentyful.

Have fun

Bernd

Thanks, Bernd. I'm makin' a list.

[KitR]

Just got my Feb 2006 STEREOPHILE.Michael Fremer's FINALLY reviewed the Bellari VP129. Quoting:
"This one tube wonder, made in the USA by the Rolls corporation..."(How come the Brits reviewed it first then???!!!)
"When I opened the the Chassis, I found a high-quality circuit board chock-full of parts...
With it's bright red case and top-mounted tube, the versatlie VP129 looks great, and it sound as good as it looks...It was quiet, and golden-sweet and liquid in the midrange...(but) I wasn't expecting it's top end to be so nicely extended, fast and clean, or it's bass to be so snappy, articulate and extended.
....DG Archive classic "Dance Music of the High Renaissance"...It features superbly recorded strings, keyboard instrument, lutes, bells, flutes, and lots of percussion. I plugged in a Roksan Radius...Corus cartridge and was ABSOLUTELY CAPTIVATED by what I heard. The strings sounded rich and bouyant, the flutes airy and complex, and the percussion had plenty of transient "bite" and resolve. The stage floated pleasingly, and with a nicely rendered 3-dimensionality. Every type of Music I played through the surprising little Bellari sounded full-bodied and rich, yet detailed and crisply rendered. The Bass well extended and satisfyingly punchy, and vocal sibilants were clean and pure. The only things missing were the usual brightness, etchiness, and hardness I expect from pre-amps at this price.
The Bellari VP129 gets my HIGHEST RECOMMENDATION, and is the budget phono amp I will now ENTHUSIASTICALLY recommend for every genre of music. It's sins are strictly of omission, and it worked well as a headphone amp too. WELL DONE - and a genuine bargain...(if)you listen to classical music, get a ...VP129 and a budget turntable, and I promise that your CD's will start to gather dust"

Say no more, Squire! Well actually, swap out the Sovtek 12AX7LPS for an Electro-Harmonix 12AX7EH and the same superlatives apply to Rock music. On the Bellari, tube rolling is a 30second job, which includes securing the tube guard. Time for Rolls/ Bellari to crank up those Production Lines methinks!

[KitR]

Glad you have caused no permanent damage. For a crash course take a look at www.machmat.com
He is a dealer from the Netherlands and has a great site. Take some time-you can learn a lot about what tube can be exchanged for what.

Have fun

Bernd

Thank you Bernd! I will do so. Going to tubes/hybrids has cured my hi-fiitis almost completely! The need for that last ounce of detail has almost disappeared and I'm spending my money on "software"...
Wife: "AT LAST! Now Dear, about that 15year old kitchen re-model that's LONG overdue!"
Husband: "Sorry Dear, there's a matched pair of Telefunken NOS 300B's on ebay for a mere $3500. I can't pass up a steal like that..."

[E-Stat]

For those that can afford one, hurry up, the normal shop price is increasing by 50 bucks soon. BTW you can get this cheaper by buying from Pro music shops. I've seen it new for $150, spend the extra on the Harmonix tube.
Thanks for the positive report. I purchased one just yesterday to feed my newly reinvigorated '74 Ariston turntable in the vintage garage system. I bought a used SME (that's originally what I used with it for years) and ordered a Shure M97 to complete the package.

rw

[KitR]

Thanks for the positive report. I purchased one just yesterday to feed my newly reinvigorated '74 Ariston turntable in the vintage garage system. I bought a used SME (that's originally what I used with it for years) and ordered a Shure M97 to complete the package.

rw

Is your's the original RD11 that the Linn and Ariston decks sprang from thereafter? And the 3009 too? Sounds like the classic combo! I've heard the M97 is a worthy successor to the V15 - had a III myself. Cost a huge 15GBP in '75! I used it on a Pioneer PL12D. Remember those?!
I think you'll enjoy the VP129. It really grew on me, I can tell you. I've also quoted the latest review by Michael Fremer of Stereophile and it's now his preferred "budget" phono preamp. come back and check it out. Oh, and leave the VP129 on for 24 hrs before you play it seriously. Enjoy!

[Bernd]

Thank you Bernd! I will do so. Going to tubes/hybrids has cured my hi-fiitis almost completely! The need for that last ounce of detail has almost disappeared and I'm spending my money on "software"...
Wife: "AT LAST! Now Dear, about that 15year old kitchen re-model that's LONG overdue!"
Husband: "Sorry Dear, there's a matched pair of Telefunken NOS 300B's on ebay for a mere $3500. I can't pass up a steal like that..."

Ha Ha. Same here.

Bernd

[E-Stat]

Is your's the original RD11 that the Linn and Ariston decks sprang from thereafter?
Yes, it's an original RD-11s sharing many parts with the later Linn Sondek.


And the 3009 too? Sounds like the classic combo!
Not the original, but a 3009 Series II Improved like the one I bought back then. Actually, this is a slightly later version with RCA jacks and interchangeable interconnects. It was quite the combo back in '74. Even my wife thinks it looks cool today.


Oh, and leave the VP129 on for 24 hrs before you play it seriously. Enjoy!
Thanks for the advice. I usually wait a week before I do any serious listening to anything new.

rw

[dean_martin]

The Bellari was delivered yesterday. I didn't have much time to play last night because my son was in his school's production of Oklahoma! playing Will Parker. So I set up the Bellari in the place of my Parasound P/HP 850 preamp that I had been using for its phono section.

Out of the box I noticed that the Bellari wouldn't sit flat. It rocked. This was extremely annoying. Then I remembered that it's primarily a pro audio component. I have two cheap ($99) Presonus tubed microphone preamps that I use with condenser mics for phantom power. Each of them had issues with their "feet" which were easily resolved with felt or rubber adhesive pads. But my annoyance was aggravated when I played the first record. I couldn't get much volume at all. I turned up the level on the Bellari and my Jolida tube amp. I was dejected believing that this simply was not a good product match for my system. I was going to have to spend more money for more gain. I decided to leave the Bellari on as I left for my son's play and give it another chance.

By the time I got home, I was convinced that I had really screwed up in getting the Bellari and a moving coil cartridge. I hadn't tried the cartridge yet so I immediately replaced the Parasound cart on my Pro-Ject table/arm with the Ortofon MC3-Turbo. I don't have much info on the Parasound cart except that it is a mm design. I think it was sourced from ADC back in the day. I bought it nos last year and it's done ok replacing the stock Sumiko Oyster cart until I could figure out what to do. I wasn't expecting much with the Ortofon since the Bellari couldn't make the Parasound mm do much.

I don't know if it was the three hours warm up period for the Bellari or my misconception of the Parasound's output compared to the Ortofon's, but man I was surprised! With the Bellari level set to 2 1/2 and my amp's volume set between 10 & 11 o'clock I heard a big, room-filling, detailed sound. I listened to various records from 11:00pm to 2:00am. Then listend to another record today at lunch. (I live close to my office there's just enough time to listen to an album.) I noticed much more detail with individual instruments, like the auxillary percussion on Modest Mouse's The Moon & Antartica, clearly identified. There's no harshness in the treble which I was wary of from reading comments on high output mcs.

I have a little tinkering left to do. I wasn't using the headshell finger lift with the Parasound, but because the Ortofon is lighter, I'm going to put it back on. Once levelling the arm with the new cart and dialing in the recommended tracking force, I can only go up to 2.0g. The recommended force is 1.8 - 2.2. I would like to be able to adjust through that span, but I won't be able to without adding a little weight on the headshell end. Hopefully re-installing the finger lift will add enough to provide more adjustability. I also have one torture track that the Ortofon can't handle well yet. The last track on side C of Death Cab for Cutie's Transantlanticism is "Passenger Seat". It contains a closely mic'ed piano with the right hand loudly striking single keys at a frequency that easily distorts in playback. Once the Ortofon handles this track a little better my setup tinkering will be complete.

Oh, and I'm about to pull the trigger on some nos 12AX7/7025 RCAs which should improve the bass response a little. The stock tube with my Bellari has no identifying markings.

After my heart fell to my feet at first, I can say that the Bellari can handle the 3.3mV output rating of the Ortofon with ease and their combined sound is very promising.

[KitR]

The Bellari was delivered yesterday. I didn't have much time to play last night because my son was in his school's production of Oklahoma! playing Will Parker. So I set up the Bellari in the place of my Parasound P/HP 850 preamp that I had been using for its phono section.

Out of the box I noticed that the Bellari wouldn't sit flat. It rocked. This was extremely annoying. Then I remembered that it's primarily a pro audio component. I have two cheap ($99) Presonus tubed microphone preamps that I use with condenser mics for phantom power. Each of them had issues with their "feet" which were easily resolved with felt or rubber adhesive pads. But my annoyance was aggravated when I played the first record. I couldn't get much volume at all. I turned up the level on the Bellari and my Jolida tube amp. I was dejected believing that this simply was not a good product match for my system. I was going to have to spend more money for more gain. I decided to leave the Bellari on as I left for my son's play and give it another chance.

By the time I got home, I was convinced that I had really screwed up in getting the Bellari and a moving coil cartridge. I hadn't tried the cartridge yet so I immediately replaced the Parasound cart on my Pro-Ject table/arm with the Ortofon MC3-Turbo. I don't have much info on the Parasound cart except that it is a mm design. I think it was sourced from ADC back in the day. I bought it nos last year and it's done ok replacing the stock Sumiko Oyster cart until I could figure out what to do. I wasn't expecting much with the Ortofon since the Bellari couldn't make the Parasound mm do much.

I don't know if it was the three hours warm up period for the Bellari or my misconception of the Parasound's output compared to the Ortofon's, but man I was surprised! With the Bellari level set to 2 1/2 and my amp's volume set between 10 & 11 o'clock I heard a big, room-filling, detailed sound. I listened to various records from 11:00pm to 2:00am. Then listend to another record today at lunch. (I live close to my office there's just enough time to listen to an album.) I noticed much more detail with individual instruments, like the auxillary percussion on Modest Mouse's The Moon & Antartica, clearly identified. There's no harshness in the treble which I was wary of from reading comments on high output mcs.

I have a little tinkering left to do. I wasn't using the headshell finger lift with the Parasound, but because the Ortofon is lighter, I'm going to put it back on. Once levelling the arm with the new cart and dialing in the recommended tracking force, I can only go up to 2.0g. The recommended force is 1.8 - 2.2. I would like to be able to adjust through that span, but I won't be able to without adding a little weight on the headshell end. Hopefully re-installing the finger lift will add enough to provide more adjustability. I also have one torture track that the Ortofon can't handle well yet. The last track on side C of Death Cab for Cutie's Transantlanticism is "Passenger Seat". It contains a closely mic'ed piano with the right hand loudly striking single keys at a frequency that easily distorts in playback. Once the Ortofon handles this track a little better my setup tinkering will be complete.

Oh, and I'm about to pull the trigger on some nos 12AX7/7025 RCAs which should improve the bass response a little. The stock tube with my Bellari has no identifying markings.

After my heart fell to my feet at first, I can say that the Bellari can handle the 3.3mV output rating of the Ortofon with ease and their combined sound is very promising.


Hmm, I don't like the sound of that. Appears they're rushing production and quality control. Mine is perfect in that regard. Plus the tube it came with was a Sovtek 12AX7LPS, and very highly rated. I call it my "cool" tube! On the plus side, I had to go to my Bellari's max level with my 10X5 and 1 O'Clock on my Pro 5T(T for Tubed output stage) passive stage , so you seem to have a bit more gain than I do on mine. I've had it just over 18 months and it's previous owner had another 18 months from new. It definitely needs to break in, so be patient. I presume you do have an alignment protractor? If not LP Gear do one for about $15. Fiddly, but essential IMO. 2.0 grams should be fine for you're Ortofon. But I always found them nice but almost too neutral - had two of their MM's many moons ago! So my info may be waay out of date! I think I might hunt round for a 7025 myself. Sound good. PartsExpress is doing mil-specs cheap...SORREE DEAR! Hee.Hee!

[dean_martin]

Hmm, I don't like the sound of that. Appears they're rushing production and quality control. Mine is perfect in that regard. Plus the tube it came with was a Sovtek 12AX7LPS, and very highly rated. I call it my "cool" tube! On the plus side, I had to go to my Bellari's max level with my 10X5 and 1 O'Clock on my Pro 5T(T for Tubed output stage) passive stage , so you seem to have a bit more gain than I do on mine. I've had it just over 18 months and it's previous owner had another 18 months from new. It definitely needs to break in, so be patient. I presume you do have an alignment protractor? If not LP Gear do one for about $15. Fiddly, but essential IMO. 2.0 grams should be fine for you're Ortofon. But I always found them nice but almost too neutral - had two of their MM's many moons ago! So my info may be waay out of date! I think I might hunt round for a 7025 myself. Sound good. PartsExpress is doing mil-specs cheap...SORREE DEAR! Hee.Hee!

I've tried the headphone amp and it works as well as all controls. I was concerned about the fact that it rocked. Either the rubber adhesive pad footer on the back left corner is thinner than the rest or the metal plating is not perfectly shaped. I'm not sure which yet. The only function I haven't tried is the rumble filter.

To make sure my level settings weren't misleading, the Bellari's setting is at 2 1/2 marks right of 12 o'clock. This allows me to set my volume on my amp only slightly above my settings for cd and tuner. I would be concerned if I had to set the amp's volume past 12 o'clock because if I forgot and changed sources things could get ugly loud.

I have a stylus alignment thingy that came with my table that I used for the new cart and some other cardboard measuring device. Obviously, precision is not my forte, but I'll work on that. I want to learn how to adjust my vta as well. I've always used my ears and eyes, but I think it's time to learn how to set things up more precisely.

BTW, I got my Bellari/Ortofon package from LP Gear. They were very easy to work with and answered all my emails promptly.

[KitR]

I've tried the headphone amp and it works as well as all controls. I was concerned about the fact that it rocked. Either the rubber adhesive pad footer on the back left corner is thinner than the rest or the metal plating is not perfectly shaped. I'm not sure which yet. The only function I haven't tried is the rumble filter.

To make sure my level settings weren't misleading, the Bellari's setting is at 2 1/2 marks right of 12 o'clock. This allows me to set my volume on my amp only slightly above my settings for cd and tuner. I would be concerned if I had to set the amp's volume past 12 o'clock because if I forgot and changed sources things could get ugly loud.

I have a stylus alignment thingy that came with my table that I used for the new cart and some other cardboard measuring device. Obviously, precision is not my forte, but I'll work on that. I want to learn how to adjust my vta as well. I've always used my ears and eyes, but I think it's time to learn how to set things up more precisely.

BTW, I got my Bellari/Ortofon package from LP Gear. They were very easy to work with and answered all my emails promptly.

The "stylus alignment thingy" sums it up nicely! And you've "saved" $15.00; just about how much a Electro-Harmonix 12AX7EH tube will cost you from PartsExpress!

[KitR]

Yes, it's an original RD-11s sharing many parts with the later Linn Sondek.


Not the original, but a 3009 Series II Improved like the one I bought back then. Actually, this is a slightly later version with RCA jacks and interchangeable interconnects. It was quite the combo back in '74. Even my wife thinks it looks cool today.


Thanks for the advice. I usually wait a week before I do any serious listening to anything new.

rw

COOL! And with a W.A.F too! You're laughing! One in the eye for Ivor! A week should be ample. That's how long it took the Electro-Harmonix tube to break in and then...