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Zaurusman
01-22-2006, 08:58 AM
Hi all,

I set up my first turntable, an Audio-Technica AT-PL120 last week and my first three records came in as well. Wow ... I can hear a difference from this and CD's, even on cheap little Aiwa 3-way bookshelf speakers that came with an all-in-one system. With my limited experience I like the sound it produces better than my CD's. Female vocals especially seem clearer and more lifelike! And I love the feel of the whole thing ... think I spent ten minutes the first night just switching and adjusting platter speeds to watch the timing marks move around. :p

I have LAST 1/2 for the records, Record Research Lab #9 for the stylus and some poly sleeves on order to maintain what I have. To get a little more fidelity, I'm planning on ordering a set of Sony 750 towers as a budget speaker upgrade next month, but that will end my audio equipment purchases this year as I focus on other priorities. Next year I'll likely open the wallet a good bit wider for hi-fi.

That's the background, primarily so y'all don't recommend I go buy a $500 tone arm for my setup ;). Being new to this and not knowing anyone who's into vinyl, I have a few questions:

1 - Will the maintenance items I've listed cover my bases for protecting my investment? Especially the vinyl.

2 - Will things like anti-vibration mats, etc, improve sound if I presently hear no bearing noise with my setup (also assuming I don't with better speakers)?

3 - Should I limit the playing of my albums until the cleaners/preservatives arrive? I gave each a wipe with a slightly damp microfiber cloth before their first play, and they're currently not noticeably dusty. Should I give the stylus a wipe with a damp cloth too, or should I not touch it?

Thanks in advance!

JohnMichael
01-22-2006, 01:26 PM
Welcome Zaurasman. The first question I would like to answer involves cleaning your stylus. Instead of a damp cloth a soft brush is better to clean the stylus. You always want to bring the brush across the stylus in a back to front motion. This is safer for the stylus and cantilever. A cloth could catch the stylus and pull the cantilever or break off the stylus if you are not cautious. Your cartridge may have come with the appropriate brush. If the records are new and there is not a lot of surface dirt I would not try to clean them with tap water. The water can leave a residue on your records. Wait until you receive the products and clean them if they need cleaned. I do not clean my records unless I have contaminated them. Some of my albums are from the mid 70s and still sound good. As far as adding a mat I have changed from a felt mat to the Ringmat cork and paper mat. On DD turntables you might want to check out the soft mats such as sorbothane. I have a belt drive table but a few have DD tables and can give you more advice.

Coyote-X
01-22-2006, 02:01 PM
Hi! Since this is related, I thought I'd also post in this thread. I too, am relatively new to analog. I recently became interested in it 'cause I was tired of hearing about DRM schemes, and upon mentioning it my parents and grandparents, I've ended up with their combined record collections (Around 150-200 LPs, well taken care of, for the most part) and my dad's old turntable.

I was wondering if anybody could answer some of my questions too.

The turntable itself is a Technics SL-Q200 direct drive automatic with a p-mount Realistic cartridge that says 'RXP3' on the side, equipped with a Shure diamond tipped stylus. I remember going with him to the store to buy this cartridge in (I think?) the early 90's. It has been played little since then.

1) How good is the overall quality of this setup? Is it worth messing around with before taking the plunge on a more expensive one, or should I just dive in head first and go for a higher quality one? I've read things recommending various turntables, which seem to point to the fact that 'good' starts around 400+ dollars. (Rega P3, Technics SL-1200 Mk2, that sort of thing.) It seems (to my ears) to put out higher quality audio than most of the CD players I've heard/owned.

2) What (if any) maintanence should I be doing on this table that's not listed above? When I got it out I cleaned it off with a damp rag, used some canned air on the stylus and electronic cleaner on the connections. I have none of the manuals/paperwork that came with it.

3) I'm also somewhat aware that the cartridge it has is probably not the best that it COULD have. Should I replace the it at all? If so, would it be worth it to invest in a more expensive cartridge/stylus, given that the table is not really 'top of the line?'

Any answers'd be appreciated. Thanks. :)

JohnMichael
01-22-2006, 02:51 PM
Hi! Since this is related, I thought I'd also post in this thread. I too, am relatively new to analog. I recently became interested in it 'cause I was tired of hearing about DRM schemes, and upon mentioning it my parents and grandparents, I've ended up with their combined record collections (Around 150-200 LPs, well taken care of, for the most part) and my dad's old turntable.

I was wondering if anybody could answer some of my questions too.

The turntable itself is a Technics SL-Q200 direct drive automatic with a p-mount Realistic cartridge that says 'RXP3' on the side, equipped with a Shure diamond tipped stylus. I remember going with him to the store to buy this cartridge in (I think?) the early 90's. It has been played little since then.

1) How good is the overall quality of this setup? Is it worth messing around with before taking the plunge on a more expensive one, or should I just dive in head first and go for a higher quality one? I've read things recommending various turntables, which seem to point to the fact that 'good' starts around 400+ dollars. (Rega P3, Technics SL-1200 Mk2, that sort of thing.) It seems (to my ears) to put out higher quality audio than most of the CD players I've heard/owned.

2) What (if any) maintanence should I be doing on this table that's not listed above? When I got it out I cleaned it off with a damp rag, used some canned air on the stylus and electronic cleaner on the connections. I have none of the manuals/paperwork that came with it.

3) I'm also somewhat aware that the cartridge it has is probably not the best that it COULD have. Should I replace the it at all? If so, would it be worth it to invest in a more expensive cartridge/stylus, given that the table is not really 'top of the line?'

Any answers'd be appreciated. Thanks. :)

Welcome to the AR. I have owned a Technics P mount table years ago but I am not familiar with that model. You are lucky to receive the records and table. The first thing I would do is replace the stylus and Radio Shack should be able to supply a replacement. The PMount technology was designed for cartridges that track at 1 1/4 gram so if you buy a new cartridge I would make sure it can track that lightly. There are some PMount cartridges that need more tracking force. Also some of the Technics PMount arms had a weight in the back of the arm that was adjustable by tightening a center screw. Of course you would need a seperate tracking force gauge like the Shure gauge to have any idea how heavy the arm is tracking. If the table spins without noise and maintains speed I would say it is in good shape. Most of those tables did not need to be periodicaly lubed. If you decide that you want to purchase a new table down the road we have lots of advice about our preferences. Enjoy

Coyote-X
01-22-2006, 03:33 PM
Welcome to the AR. I have owned a Technics P mount table years ago but I am not familiar with that model. You are lucky to receive the records and table. The first thing I would do is replace the stylus and Radio Shack should be able to supply a replacement. The PMount technology was designed for cartridges that track at 1 1/4 gram so if you buy a new cartridge I would make sure it can track that lightly. There are some PMount cartridges that need more tracking force. Also some of the Technics PMount arms had a weight in the back of the arm that was adjustable by tightening a center screw. Of course you would need a seperate tracking force gauge like the Shure gauge to have any idea how heavy the arm is tracking. If the table spins without noise and maintains speed I would say it is in good shape. Most of those tables did not need to be periodicaly lubed. If you decide that you want to purchase a new table down the road we have lots of advice about our preferences. Enjoy

Thanks a bunch. The tonearm actually has that counterweight on the back of it, and what's more it has a printed 'scale' of how much force you're putting down on the record. It measures from 1.5 - 1.0, but can go farther in either direction.

If you're curious, I've got a picture of the table on my site. Somewhere along the line, the attachment for playing 45s was lost, but when I was 7-8 or so I remember it residing in the upper left hand corner where that little circular indentation is.

You can see it here (http://coyotex.dyndns.org/turntable.jpg).

Bernd
01-23-2006, 12:31 AM
Hi all,

I set up my first turntable, an Audio-Technica AT-PL120 last week and my first three records came in as well. Wow ... I can hear a difference from this and CD's, even on cheap little Aiwa 3-way bookshelf speakers that came with an all-in-one system. With my limited experience I like the sound it produces better than my CD's. Female vocals especially seem clearer and more lifelike! And I love the feel of the whole thing ... think I spent ten minutes the first night just switching and adjusting platter speeds to watch the timing marks move around. :p

I have LAST 1/2 for the records, Record Research Lab #9 for the stylus and some poly sleeves on order to maintain what I have. To get a little more fidelity, I'm planning on ordering a set of Sony 750 towers as a budget speaker upgrade next month, but that will end my audio equipment purchases this year as I focus on other priorities. Next year I'll likely open the wallet a good bit wider for hi-fi.

That's the background, primarily so y'all don't recommend I go buy a $500 tone arm for my setup ;). Being new to this and not knowing anyone who's into vinyl, I have a few questions:

1 - Will the maintenance items I've listed cover my bases for protecting my investment? Especially the vinyl.

2 - Will things like anti-vibration mats, etc, improve sound if I presently hear no bearing noise with my setup (also assuming I don't with better speakers)?

3 - Should I limit the playing of my albums until the cleaners/preservatives arrive? I gave each a wipe with a slightly damp microfiber cloth before their first play, and they're currently not noticeably dusty. Should I give the stylus a wipe with a damp cloth too, or should I not touch it?

Thanks in advance!

Hi and welcome to vinyl-the family is growing.
I agree with all that John has mentioned just like to add a couple more points. First the set up of your TT is very important as is the isolation for it.If I where you I would hold on the Speakers, as you will no doubt upgrade them again, and the resale value will most likley be poor. I would invest in a dedicated TT stand and a Ringmat which you can keep during your upgrades and will give you instant improvements.Never,never,never use a damp cloth on your stylus. It is very delicate,easily damaged and if the alignment is out it will ruin your records. Try and get a soft small stylus brush and some Stylelast.
Most of all have fun.

Bernd

Bernd
01-23-2006, 12:41 AM
Hi! Since this is related, I thought I'd also post in this thread. I too, am relatively new to analog. I recently became interested in it 'cause I was tired of hearing about DRM schemes, and upon mentioning it my parents and grandparents, I've ended up with their combined record collections (Around 150-200 LPs, well taken care of, for the most part) and my dad's old turntable.

I was wondering if anybody could answer some of my questions too.

The turntable itself is a Technics SL-Q200 direct drive automatic with a p-mount Realistic cartridge that says 'RXP3' on the side, equipped with a Shure diamond tipped stylus. I remember going with him to the store to buy this cartridge in (I think?) the early 90's. It has been played little since then.

1) How good is the overall quality of this setup? Is it worth messing around with before taking the plunge on a more expensive one, or should I just dive in head first and go for a higher quality one? I've read things recommending various turntables, which seem to point to the fact that 'good' starts around 400+ dollars. (Rega P3, Technics SL-1200 Mk2, that sort of thing.) It seems (to my ears) to put out higher quality audio than most of the CD players I've heard/owned.

2) What (if any) maintanence should I be doing on this table that's not listed above? When I got it out I cleaned it off with a damp rag, used some canned air on the stylus and electronic cleaner on the connections. I have none of the manuals/paperwork that came with it.

3) I'm also somewhat aware that the cartridge it has is probably not the best that it COULD have. Should I replace the it at all? If so, would it be worth it to invest in a more expensive cartridge/stylus, given that the table is not really 'top of the line?'

Any answers'd be appreciated. Thanks. :)

Hi and welcome,
I am not familiar with your TT but the first thing I would do is have the stylus checked. A worn stylus will carve your vinyl up.
I would then save for a Rega P3 or similar TT with a decent cartridge a dedicated Support and a Ringmat.
It is better to ask once too many than have your collection ruined. I am into vinyl for the last 30 years and will do my best to help beginners as the musical rewards are huge.

Have fun

Bernd

Zaurusman
01-23-2006, 07:24 AM
Thanks for the advice, guys! The cloth I used on the records was barely damp - just enough to not hold a static charge. All three records were dusty and static-charged when I received them, even though two of 'em were new and sealed. No worries, I have a Record Labs product on the way with a brush.

One more question (I think): The LAST record preservative (LAST 2), is that a good product to use? I've read conflicting things online, some saying you should never coat a record in anything and that if kept clean they should last indefinitely with today's 1-5 gram stylus's, but then also saw Stereophile's praise of the product. So needless to say, I'm confused. I definitely want to preserve my records and would like to listen to them in new or near-new condition years from now. But I also don't want to reduce their fidelity by coating them with something that might fill in some of the groove.

Bernd
01-23-2006, 07:38 AM
Thanks for the advice, guys! The cloth I used on the records was barely damp - just enough to not hold a static charge. All three records were dusty and static-charged when I received them, even though two of 'em were new and sealed. No worries, I have a Record Labs product on the way with a brush.

One more question (I think): The LAST record preservative (LAST 2), is that a good product to use? I've read conflicting things online, some saying you should never coat a record in anything and that if kept clean they should last indefinitely with today's 1-5 gram stylus's, but then also saw Stereophile's praise of the product. So needless to say, I'm confused. I definitely want to preserve my records and would like to listen to them in new or near-new condition years from now. But I also don't want to reduce their fidelity by coating them with something that might fill in some of the groove.

I would stay away from the record preservative. Further up the road you could invest in a record cleaner. Manual first (Knosti) and if your collection grows, a machine.The best way to keep your records in a good condition is to have a clean, correctly aligned stylus with plenty of life left in it.I use a carbon fibre brush (Decca) to brush my records before each play.Also my records are kept upright and in Nagaoka Antistatic inner sleeves.I also keep track of playing hours of my cartridge.
To me the order of importance is as follows:
Turn Table
Arm
Cartridge
Set Up
Isolation
Phono amp
Clean records

The TT will make the biggest impact and so on. A budget cartridge on a good TT will perform better then a High End cartridge on a Budget TT.
Enjoy

Bernd

BRANDONH
01-23-2006, 09:51 AM
Hi all,

I set up my first turntable, an Audio-Technica AT-PL120 last week and my first three records came in as well. Wow ... I can hear a difference from this and CD's, even on cheap little Aiwa 3-way bookshelf speakers that came with an all-in-one system. With my limited experience I like the sound it produces better than my CD's. Female vocals especially seem clearer and more lifelike! And I love the feel of the whole thing ... think I spent ten minutes the first night just switching and adjusting platter speeds to watch the timing marks move around. :p

I have LAST 1/2 for the records, Record Research Lab #9 for the stylus and some poly sleeves on order to maintain what I have. To get a little more fidelity, I'm planning on ordering a set of Sony 750 towers as a budget speaker upgrade next month, but that will end my audio equipment purchases this year as I focus on other priorities. Next year I'll likely open the wallet a good bit wider for hi-fi.

That's the background, primarily so y'all don't recommend I go buy a $500 tone arm for my setup ;). Being new to this and not knowing anyone who's into vinyl, I have a few questions:

1 - Will the maintenance items I've listed cover my bases for protecting my investment? Especially the vinyl.

2 - Will things like anti-vibration mats, etc, improve sound if I presently hear no bearing noise with my setup (also assuming I don't with better speakers)?

3 - Should I limit the playing of my albums until the cleaners/preservatives arrive? I gave each a wipe with a slightly damp microfiber cloth before their first play, and they're currently not noticeably dusty. Should I give the stylus a wipe with a damp cloth too, or should I not touch it?

Thanks in advance!

I highly recommend this:
http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/as201JPG/SGRUV.gif
http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=12502&section=music

I use this to clean first:
http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/as201JPG/Orbitrac.jpg
http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=9578&section=music
I purchased extra pads to apply the Gruv-Glide
http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=13220&section=music

Robb
01-27-2006, 08:48 AM
I highly recommend this:
http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/as201JPG/SGRUV.gif
http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=12502&section=music

I use this to clean first:
http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/as201JPG/Orbitrac.jpg
http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=9578&section=music
I purchased extra pads to apply the Gruv-Glide
http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=13220&section=music
My stylus cleaning fluid smells suspiciously like isopropyl, or "rubbing alcohol". Seems to keep the stylus squeaky clean. Any thoughts or recommendations?

BRANDONH
01-30-2006, 07:53 AM
My stylus cleaning fluid smells suspiciously like isopropyl, or "rubbing alcohol". Seems to keep the stylus squeaky clean. Any thoughts or recommendations?
I just use rubbing alcohol myself.
I know that there are better products but I have not tried them.

Robb
01-30-2006, 09:53 AM
I just use rubbing alcohol myself.
I know that there are better products but I have not tried them.


Well, that is interesting. I noticed over the weekend that the fluid for my orbitrac smelled like isopropyl as well. Does this mean we are safe using plain old inexpensive rubbing alcohol? I am a bit wary of that idea when it comes to the precious vinyl itself.

Thanks for the response.

Zaurusman
01-30-2006, 10:17 AM
Do you just apply it to a toothbrush or the such, BRANDONH? I'm looking for a way to clean my needle while I wait for my supplies to come in. After only a handful plays since new, I can already hear an occassional pop.

After watching isopropyl instantly haze a small acrylic fishtank I wanted to clean and disinfect once, I'd be hard pressed to touch my records with the stuff. Small amounts should evaporate off a needle almost instantly, though.

Zaurusman
01-30-2006, 10:30 AM
... I would invest in a dedicated TT stand ...

Bernd, would something like this be acceptable? The only other item that I would put on it and have turned on while the 'table was running would be a (digital at the moment) receiver:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=SALA3/B&product_name=Archetype%203%2E0%20Three-Shelf%20Audio%20Rack

Bernd
01-31-2006, 08:05 AM
Bernd, would something like this be acceptable? The only other item that I would put on it and have turned on while the 'table was running would be a (digital at the moment) receiver:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=SALA3/B&product_name=Archetype%203%2E0%20Three-Shelf%20Audio%20Rack

Hi,
That's perfect. But if you don't want to go the whole rack thing try and get a sturdy small coffe table (Ikea sell those) it's a great starting point. But a dedicated rack is of course best.

Let me know what you decide.

Bernd

Bernd
01-31-2006, 08:08 AM
Do you just apply it to a toothbrush or the such, BRANDONH? I'm looking for a way to clean my needle while I wait for my supplies to come in. After only a handful plays since new, I can already hear an occassional pop.

After watching isopropyl instantly haze a small acrylic fishtank I wanted to clean and disinfect once, I'd be hard pressed to touch my records with the stuff. Small amounts should evaporate off a needle almost instantly, though.

The occasional pops and clicks are static and/or dirt in the grooves. Your stylus and record life is going to be shortened if you don't keep the Vinyl clean. As for the Stylus I would never go near any Isopropyl alcohol. If it travels up the canteliver it might destroy the suspension. If you have invested in a decent vinyl playback sytem it makes sense to buy one of the special cleaning fluids (try Last Stylus cleaner or/and Last Stylast).Keeps the tip clean and can increase stylus life.
Also try and get some Antistatic inner sleeves for your records.They are very helpful in eliminating static. Now for cleaning the records- I will leave that for another day.

Have fun

Bernd

BRANDONH
01-31-2006, 08:43 AM
Well, that is interesting. I noticed over the weekend that the fluid for my orbitrac smelled like isopropyl as well. Does this mean we are safe using plain old inexpensive rubbing alcohol? I am a bit wary of that idea when it comes to the precious vinyl itself.

Thanks for the response.

The orbitrac fluid is not pure rubbing alcohol do not use rubbing alcohol on your vinyl.
I usually preclean with the orbitrac then follow up with the gruv-glide.
And once the album has been treated with the gruv-glide I do not use the orbitrac fluid again, I just do a touch up with the gruv-glide when the static returns.
You will love the Gruv-Glide!
I plan to eventually get a pro record cleaner one of the days.

BRANDONH
01-31-2006, 08:54 AM
Do you just apply it to a toothbrush or the such, BRANDONH? I'm looking for a way to clean my needle while I wait for my supplies to come in. After only a handful plays since new, I can already hear an occassional pop.

After watching isopropyl instantly haze a small acrylic fishtank I wanted to clean and disinfect once, I'd be hard pressed to touch my records with the stuff. Small amounts should evaporate off a needle almost instantly, though.

There are multitudes of stylus cleaning products out there, I would not know where to begin Bernd is better suited to answer this question than me.
I use the stylus brush provided with the cartridge.
And follow the manufactures stylus cleaning instructions Rubbing Alcohol.
I am not recommending that you use it, just stating thats what I use and have had no problems.

Zaurusman
01-31-2006, 10:36 AM
Thanks for the advice, guys. I'm just going to stick to CD's and MP3's for a few days until my cleaning supplies arrive - turned out one of them was on backorder. Then I'll go find a brush for the records locally. A brush for the stylus comes with the cleaner I ordered, but did not come with my Audio-Technica's cartridge.

Robb
01-31-2006, 11:49 AM
The orbitrac fluid is not pure rubbing alcohol do not use rubbing alcohol on your vinyl.
I usually preclean with the orbitrac then follow up with the gruv-glide.
And once the album has been treated with the gruv-glide I do not use the orbitrac fluid again, I just do a touch up with the gruv-glide when the static returns.
You will love the Gruv-Glide!
I plan to eventually get a pro record cleaner one of the days.
Not to worry, I was not seriously considering using the isopropyl on the vinyl, merely curious as to its unmistakable aroma. The Gruv Glide idea is interesting. I must admit I have been using the orbitrac prior to every play, but without any anti static strategy. I am meticulous to the point of obsession by nature, perhaps. Somehow the Gruv Glide seems to me like introducing more foreign material to the vinyl surface along with whatever dirt is inevitably present.

Any thoughts on record clamps and isolation devices? Bear in mind my system is low to moderately priced, so I would be considering the lower price range of these items. I have seen a couple of different clamps for around $20, and "Vibrapods" as low as $6.

Thanks again for your kind responses.

BRANDONH
01-31-2006, 01:27 PM
Not to worry, I was not seriously considering using the isopropyl on the vinyl, merely curious as to its unmistakable aroma. The Gruv Glide idea is interesting. I must admit I have been using the orbitrac prior to every play, but without any anti static strategy. I am meticulous to the point of obsession by nature, perhaps. Somehow the Gruv Glide seems to me like introducing more foreign material to the vinyl surface along with whatever dirt is inevitably present.

Any thoughts on record clamps and isolation devices? Bear in mind my system is low to moderately priced, so I would be considering the lower price range of these items. I have seen a couple of different clamps for around $20, and "Vibrapods" as low as $6.

Thanks again for your kind responses.
Your welcome!

I have a KAB record clamp and decided that I prefer the sound without it.
I am considering getting the Ringmat someday people here have good things to say about it.
As for isolation devices I replaced my Pro-Ject 1.2 turntable with the Technics which has excellent isolation and then put it on a 1 inch slab of marble on a freaking fish tank stand.
I can play the sh*t out of my system with practically no feedback what-so-ever.
A person can spend mega $$$ on all that stuff.
All I want in a table is one that sounds good at any volume especially very high volumes and I am happy.
I am no tweeker and dont want to be I just want to set it and forget it and keep the fun in spinning vinyl.
As far as the Gruv-Glide the record must be clean prior to using it.
once applied it will not have to be treated again for quite some time.
The Gruv-Glide will bring out sounds hidden deep in the grove sounds you never knew were even there before, amazing.
Heck its an amazing product a DJ Friend of mine turned me on to it and I have been very pleased with the results.
Less surface noise, life-like vocals, reduced record & stylus wear, no static.

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio/500/medium/239881system2.jpg

Coyote-X
02-02-2006, 01:07 PM
Your welcome!

I have a KAB record clamp and decided that I prefer the sound without it.
I am considering getting the Ringmat someday people here have good things to say about it.
As for isolation devices I replaced my Pro-Ject 1.2 turntable with the Technics which has excellent isolation and then put it on a 1 inch slab of marble on a freaking fish tank stand.
I can play the sh*t out of my system with practically no feedback what-so-ever.
A person can spend mega $$$ on all that stuff.
All I want in a table is one that sounds good at any volume especially very high volumes and I am happy.
I am no tweeker and dont want to be I just want to set it and forget it and keep the fun in spinning vinyl.
As far as the Gruv-Glide the record must be clean prior to using it.
once applied it will not have to be treated again for quite some time.
The Gruv-Glide will bring out sounds hidden deep in the grove sounds you never knew were even there before, amazing.
Heck its an amazing product a DJ Friend of mine turned me on to it and I have been very pleased with the results.
Less surface noise, life-like vocals, reduced record & stylus wear, no static.

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio/500/medium/239881system2.jpg

How do you tell when you're getting feedback and when it's just noise on the record, or distortion on the inner tracks? And how much vibration do you have to have to cause feedback? Is it because some people are running subwoofers in addition to regular stereo sound?

When I crank my system, just about everything in the basement including the concret floor vibrates to varying extent. With the volume at 50/80 (just over my normal listening level when there's nobody home) I can put my hand on the turntable itself and feel vibrations, while hearing some distortion.

I'm not sure whether that's because it's a small amount and the high volume is making it audiable, or whether it's feedback from the vibrations. With some older records or ones with high-activity tracks on the inner reaches, I can hear similar distortion at any volume on the inner tracks.

Also, my turntable is pretty modest compared to many here so it may be that it's simply not sensitive enough to pick up the extra vibrations? Maybe the stereo isn't powerful enough to produce such? I run a 5.1 JVC reciever with 100 watts per channel, currently only hooked up to two Infinity Entra One bookshelf speakers, circa 2002.

This is the way I currently have everything.

http://coyotex.dyndns.org/stereo3.jpg

JohnMichael
02-03-2006, 08:36 AM
How do you tell when you're getting feedback and when it's just noise on the record, or distortion on the inner tracks? And how much vibration do you have to have to cause feedback? Is it because some people are running subwoofers in addition to regular stereo sound?

When I crank my system, just about everything in the basement including the concret floor vibrates to varying extent. With the volume at 50/80 (just over my normal listening level when there's nobody home) I can put my hand on the turntable itself and feel vibrations, while hearing some distortion.

I'm not sure whether that's because it's a small amount and the high volume is making it audiable, or whether it's feedback from the vibrations. With some older records or ones with high-activity tracks on the inner reaches, I can hear similar distortion at any volume on the inner tracks.

Also, my turntable is pretty modest compared to many here so it may be that it's simply not sensitive enough to pick up the extra vibrations? Maybe the stereo isn't powerful enough to produce such? I run a 5.1 JVC reciever with 100 watts per channel, currently only hooked up to two Infinity Entra One bookshelf speakers, circa 2002.

This is the way I currently have everything.

http://coyotex.dyndns.org/stereo3.jpg

Extreme feedback is when the sound from your speakers cause your turntable to vibrate and then the cartridge plays this vibration and it is again amplified and soon you will have a howl or very non musical sounds coming from your speakers. Int. amps and receivers used to have subsonic filters to help minimize this problem. Lower amout of vibrations can muddy the sound and isolating the turntable will help. A wall mount shelf for turntables can help. Also with lighter tables I have owned in the past I have purchased soft supports such as sorbogel supports and placed a sheet of mdf about the size of the table on the feet and then placed the table on it.

As far as distortion in inner grooves the p mount system will not allow for adjustments to correct for any distortion. If those records had been played on another turntable with the cartridge improperly installed the damage could be what you are hearing. I also am still wondering about tracking force. The scale you mention might be to set antiskate and not tracking force. I did not see the scale on the couterweight of your tonearm and that is what mekes me think it might be for antiskate. The p mount is set to track at 1 1/4 grams and the Shures are one of the lighter tracking cartridges in p mount. The Grados and others prefer 1 1/2 grams down force. Also if the cartridge is tracking too light it will be more prone to distortion. I would try to borrow a guage to meaure tracking force and see if it is set for the cartridge you are using.

Coyote-X
02-03-2006, 11:01 AM
Extreme feedback is when the sound from your speakers cause your turntable to vibrate and then the cartridge plays this vibration and it is again amplified and soon you will have a howl or very non musical sounds coming from your speakers. Int. amps and receivers used to have subsonic filters to help minimize this problem. Lower amout of vibrations can muddy the sound and isolating the turntable will help. A wall mount shelf for turntables can help. Also with lighter tables I have owned in the past I have purchased soft supports such as sorbogel supports and placed a sheet of mdf about the size of the table on the feet and then placed the table on it.

As far as distortion in inner grooves the p mount system will not allow for adjustments to correct for any distortion. If those records had been played on another turntable with the cartridge improperly installed the damage could be what you are hearing. I also am still wondering about tracking force. The scale you mention might be to set antiskate and not tracking force. I did not see the scale on the couterweight of your tonearm and that is what mekes me think it might be for antiskate. The p mount is set to track at 1 1/4 grams and the Shures are one of the lighter tracking cartridges in p mount. The Grados and others prefer 1 1/2 grams down force. Also if the cartridge is tracking too light it will be more prone to distortion. I would try to borrow a guage to meaure tracking force and see if it is set for the cartridge you are using.

Well, I haven't heard any howling, so I must not be getting too much feedback, if any. It does get kinda 'muddy' sounding when I crank it up. The other noise I'm hearing must be due to damage on those certain records then. Sorry to post another large picture, but here is the 'counterweight' on my turntable. If my host name works (had problems with it last night) you should be able to see that it adjusts from 1.0-1.5 grams, with about 1.25 being where it is now. Hopefully; I'm new at this so I could be wrong. However borrowing a guage still sounds like a good idea to me, because of the poor reliability of printed on 'scales' in general. I don't know anybody else who actually owns one though, so I'll probably have to buy one.

http://coyotex.dyndns.org/counter.jpg

I'm hosting these off my home server & my cable is being really slow right now, so it may take a moment to load. :| If anybody has a free site they could recommend, I'd appreciate it. :)

JohnMichael
02-03-2006, 11:03 AM
Well, I haven't heard any howling, so I must not be getting much feedback, if any.
Sorry to post another large picture, but here is the 'counterweight' on my turntable. If my host name works (had problems with it last night) you should be able to see that it adjusts from 1.0-1.5 grams, with about 1.25 being where it is now. Hopefully; I'm new at this so I could be wrong.

http://coyotex.dyndns.org/counter.jpg

No you are right. The Technics I had did not have that feature. Have you adjusted your tracking force any to see if that helps. Maybe setting it between 1.25 and 1.5 if it will allow a mid setting.

BRANDONH
02-03-2006, 11:12 AM
How do you tell when you're getting feedback and when it's just noise on the record, or distortion on the inner tracks? And how much vibration do you have to have to cause feedback? Is it because some people are running subwoofers in addition to regular stereo sound?

When I crank my system, just about everything in the basement including the concret floor vibrates to varying extent. With the volume at 50/80 (just over my normal listening level when there's nobody home) I can put my hand on the turntable itself and feel vibrations, while hearing some distortion.

I'm not sure whether that's because it's a small amount and the high volume is making it audiable, or whether it's feedback from the vibrations. With some older records or ones with high-activity tracks on the inner reaches, I can hear similar distortion at any volume on the inner tracks.

Also, my turntable is pretty modest compared to many here so it may be that it's simply not sensitive enough to pick up the extra vibrations? Maybe the stereo isn't powerful enough to produce such? I run a 5.1 JVC reciever with 100 watts per channel, currently only hooked up to two Infinity Entra One bookshelf speakers, circa 2002.

This is the way I currently have everything.


John Michael summed it up.
Feedback can damage amplifiers and speakers as the loop continues the higher the feedback (howl).
With my dustcover removed only for very high power jam sessions it eliminated the feedback as well.
Plus I have my subsonic filters on as well

BRANDONH
02-03-2006, 11:24 AM
If anybody has a free site they could recommend, I'd appreciate it. :)

Audio review gives us one:

http://gallery.audioreview.com/

BRANDONH
02-03-2006, 11:38 AM
However borrowing a guage still sounds like a good idea to me, because of the poor reliability of printed on 'scales' in general. I don't know anybody else who actually owns one though, so I'll probably have to buy one.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=9580&section=music

http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/as201JPG/shuregage.jpg

Coyote-X
02-03-2006, 01:17 PM
Thanks a bunch for the good info. :) I'm putting all my pictures into the gallery now, too.