Snell JIII upgrade

[MMF]

I'm using a pair of Snell JIII's along with a Snell CC1 center speaker for the front portion of my surround system. The foam surrounds on the woofers on the JIII's are breaking down and gone in places. When I contacted Snell 3 months ago the each driver replacement was about $115. Today that price is $150. A $300. investment in a pair of speakers that I paid $500. for and have served me well for many years. I believe the replacment driver would be made of the same material and subject to the same breakdown. So I thought a pair of Snell M7's, K7's or,LCR7's would be a good upgrade and smaller in size. Thanks for any input on this that will help me make a decision.

MMF

[RGA]

The Snell speakers you have are very likely vastly superior to ANY new Snell speaker.

If the drivers themselves are ok -- and they may ver well be then all you need to do is have them re-foamed which would be about $100.00 for both speakers -- probably less and any speaker repair outlet can do this for you.

Audio Note bought the rights to the Snell speakers -- Snell type A, E J and K were all made by Peter Snell -- when Snell Died the bean-counters took over and Kevin Voecks who has worked for several other niotable companies took the reigns of Snell and drove them into the ground.

You can buy replacement drivers from them which are much better than the Snell drivers and cheaper -- they will be matched to tighter tolerances -- the tightest in the entire audio industry regardless of price, and they are in SEAS' opinion the best use fo their drivers in the world. there is much that can be improvced in the Snell J to get close to an Audio Note J. The Audio Note J starts at $3,000.00US -- So IMO I would seriously be looking at what you can do to turn your classic loudspeakers into something better than they ever were new -- and certainly better than any of the Current crop of Snell stuff.

I would post a request on the Audio Asylum -- Audio Note kits forum. http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/audionotekits/bbs.html

Again they may say to re-foam them -- The re-foaming alone can really make them sound much better and is the cheapest route -- but there are other suggestions that can help.

Give them some time to respond -- Audio Note's Japanese founder passed away a few days ago so they may take some time off before responding. http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/audionotekits/bbs.html

[Jimmy C]

I'm using a pair of Snell JIII's along with a Snell CC1 center speaker for the front portion of my surround system. The foam surrounds on the woofers on the JIII's are breaking down and gone in places. When I contacted Snell 3 months ago the each driver replacement was about $115. Today that price is $150. A $300. investment in a pair of speakers that I paid $500. for and have served me well for many years. I believe the replacment driver would be made of the same material and subject to the same breakdown. So I thought a pair of Snell M7's, K7's or,LCR7's would be a good upgrade and smaller in size. Thanks for any input on this that will help me make a decision.

MMF

...the speaker, why not re-foam them? I had a pair of JIIs about a year or two ago, and they also needed repair. I have a good audio repair guy in my area, so I had him get the correct foam for me, and I did the replacement. A different surround will alter the sound a bit - you need the correct roll and material. It's an easy repair, and if it lasts another 20 years, you're in business.

$300 is indeed steep for those woofers, but that price isn't uncommon. Boston Acoustics hammers you for N.O.S. parts as well... but hey, at least the option is there!

Moving to the K7s wouldn't be saving you much space - by the time you get the proper stand for them, it's almost the same amount of real estate. Soundwise, I prefer the new monitors... the only thing the Js did better was a bit more bass. What did you think? I'm sure your better half would prefer the look/finish on the K7s :^)

Bottom line, I would either fix the old or move on...

Let us know what you decide!

[RGA]

The problem is that if you really want to improve the JIII to get it anywhere near an AN J -- JHaving recently heard the JII it really is a very poor sounding version of what AN is doing -- they look similar but that is where the difference ends "completely." Still there is I believe a way to get them "in the ballpark." The AN E Kit is "in the ballpark" but it has clearly audible problems and is kind of putting a ford escort engine in a Ferrari - it may look like a Ferrari but it ain't one. The guts are what makes the end product. After hearingt he Kit E which is very good for the money -- isn't a true Audio Note - and this was built by an Audio note rep who designs and has repaired all sorts of gear for 20 years so his final product would likely be miles better than most kit builders.

Anyhow - the JIII drivers seem pricey -- you can buy two J drivers directly from Audio Note. They are from SEAS originally They sell the drivers individually and you could probably get someone to put them in for you http://www.audionote.co.uk/index_comp.htm

The problem is to get them to sound more like an Audio ntoe you have to replace the tweeter - use a better cabinet, replace the crossovers, replace the wiring, change the port size, take out all the internal stuffing that Snell used and ensure that the tweeter uses no ferro-fluid cooling.

So totally different drivers
different crossovers
different wiring
different cabinet materials and bracing
different internal deamping design and no stuffing (well different stuffing depending on the cabinet material
Different port design.
And if this model has the rear tweeter then that has to be disconnected.

And you need a corner for it to truly work its best.

Consider that the AN J has 25hz deeper bass response than the Snell J and has obviously a far more open extended treble band by about 6khz. The Snell also was not matched to very tight tolerances. Which is not slight on Snell since no one in the entire industry matches to as tight a tolerances as the AN's. The current AN's are also time and phase coherent.

Still the Snell should be able to be improved greatly. The SEAS drivers from AN would improve transient response and their low distortion characterists would make the resulting sound less "muddy" and faster and tighter sounding. Getting the Foster Tonnegan tweeters should make the midrange and treble "clearer" and give you and overall sensitivity gain. You can;t change the ports so the speaker will need to be free standing which creates some colouration in room but you'll be no worse off that you were before in this regard. And even free-standing they still have prodigious enough bass to compete with most floorstanders but won't have the bass weight or the pressurization -- but then again who knows until you try.

There are few speakers worthy of fixing up -- this is probably one of them -- if you can get them 80% of the way to an AN J/L then I'd run them up against any competitor's standmount that I have heard at any price. After hearing a 10 year old AN J/L directly against the B&W N805 everyone in the room just laughed.

If you decide to sell them -- let me know how much you want for them.

[Jimmy C]

The problem is that if you really want to improve the JIII to get it anywhere near an AN J -- JHaving recently heard the JII it really is a very poor sounding version of what AN is doing -- they look similar but that is where the difference ends "completely." Still there is I believe a way to get them "in the ballpark." The AN E Kit is "in the ballpark" but it has clearly audible problems and is kind of putting a ford escort engine in a Ferrari - it may look like a Ferrari but it ain't one. The guts are what makes the end product. After hearingt he Kit E which is very good for the money -- isn't a true Audio Note - and this was built by an Audio note rep who designs and has repaired all sorts of gear for 20 years so his final product would likely be miles better than most kit builders.

Anyhow - the JIII drivers seem pricey -- you can buy two J drivers directly from Audio Note. They are from SEAS originally They sell the drivers individually and you could probably get someone to put them in for you http://www.audionote.co.uk/index_comp.htm

The problem is to get them to sound more like an Audio ntoe you have to replace the tweeter - use a better cabinet, replace the crossovers, replace the wiring, change the port size, take out all the internal stuffing that Snell used and ensure that the tweeter uses no ferro-fluid cooling.

So totally different drivers
different crossovers
different wiring
different cabinet materials and bracing
different internal deamping design and no stuffing (well different stuffing depending on the cabinet material
Different port design.
And if this model has the rear tweeter then that has to be disconnected.

And you need a corner for it to truly work its best.

Consider that the AN J has 25hz deeper bass response than the Snell J and has obviously a far more open extended treble band by about 6khz. The Snell also was not matched to very tight tolerances. Which is not slight on Snell since no one in the entire industry matches to as tight a tolerances as the AN's. The current AN's are also time and phase coherent.

Still the Snell should be able to be improved greatly. The SEAS drivers from AN would improve transient response and their low distortion characterists would make the resulting sound less "muddy" and faster and tighter sounding. Getting the Foster Tonnegan tweeters should make the midrange and treble "clearer" and give you and overall sensitivity gain. You can;t change the ports so the speaker will need to be free standing which creates some colouration in room but you'll be no worse off that you were before in this regard. And even free-standing they still have prodigious enough bass to compete with most floorstanders but won't have the bass weight or the pressurization -- but then again who knows until you try.

There are few speakers worthy of fixing up -- this is probably one of them -- if you can get them 80% of the way to an AN J/L then I'd run them up against any competitor's standmount that I have heard at any price. After hearing a 10 year old AN J/L directly against the B&W N805 everyone in the room just laughed.

If you decide to sell them -- let me know how much you want for them.

...but I'm not getting the feeling he wants to f around with all of that. How much would it cost to completely change the internals? Is changing the woofer alone good enough to justify the cost? Do you need the x-over AND the woofer? A new tweeter? Not being able to hear the end result is a bit dicey.

I have no doubt a current SEAS would be better, but there is also the box - you can hear it sing. I'm also sure a better woofer would help some of the muddiness you (correctly) mention.

Hell, he can build the BR1 for $140 and THAT would be an upgrade from the stock J.

How much should he spend without being able to hear the final product?

[MMF]

Brian, I've got a pair of Snell JIII's that I would like to upgrade with one of your driver and crossover kits. Would your SPKR-KIT-03 work for me? Is there a 8 inch high efficiency woofer, silver voice coil kit available. Please let me know what my options are, any modifications to the cabinets and cost with shipping to Lorain, Ohio 44052 U.S.A.

Marty



Dear Marty,

Thanks, Brian Smith from ANKits sent me your email.

The Snell J/III will not work with any of our kits as the box dimensions are different from the speakers we make I am afraid.

Sincerely,
Peter Qvortrup