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Bernd
01-12-2006, 07:29 AM
Here is the thing that puzzles me about HT.
I am a pure two channel audio guy with a large(ish) Music collection 5000+. Take the average record and you have appr.30-40 min of music. So in a two hour session you could listen to 3-4 records. Or jump in and out of selected tracks.
If you now take the average movie (90 min), how many of those can you watch in one sitting. Also selecting different scenes would spoil a film,right?
Am I loking at it from a wrong angle ie.a collector and music fan?
Is building a large collection of movies not in the forefront of HT owner ship?
I would realy like to hear how you work it.

Peace

Bernd

GMichael
01-12-2006, 09:25 AM
Hi Bernd,

BOT is shining today.

Start here to see how much they can be the same.

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=15242

Bernd
01-12-2006, 09:27 AM
Hi Bernd,

BOT is shining today.

Start here to see how much they can be the same.

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=15242

Hello,

Thanks, I will give it a read.

Ole B.O.T. has been here all day-gone now though. Hope you enjoy it.

Bernd

Wireworm5
01-12-2006, 09:51 AM
I only have a 5% or 10% interest in movies, even so I have a HT. This is mainly because I like sound coming from all directions, this goes back to my quadraphonic days.
But buying movies is different for me than buying music. Unless it's from the bargain bin, I look for movies that I think I can watch several times without getting sick of it. I also look for movies with DTS tracks as this for me is what it about, the HT experience. Even so after watching a movie 4 or 5 times it becomes increasingly difficult to watch it again. Whereas music you can play it 1000 of times if you like it.
So for movies that have limited appeal it is better for me to rent them and take em back.
Movies I bought for the HT experience:
Rambo I - DTS
Rambo II - DTS
Once Upon a Time in the West - DTS
Predator - DTS
Die Hard Series- DTS
Gladiator - DTS
Pearl Harbor- DTS
Die Another Day- DTS
Troy- DD
Star Wars Series- DD
Saving Private Ryan- DD
Concert videos - DTS

Resident Loser
01-12-2006, 09:52 AM
...HT used to be the domain of the Spielbergs et al...much like oversized houses, gas-guzzling SUVs, $ 6USD cups of mocha-java-latte, designer t-shirts, ridiculously-priced speaker wires and all the rest, it's simply "lookie at what I got"...the old my dog's bigger than your dog bull$h!t...

Just some trickle-down of the worst kind...and folks wallow in it, get deeply in debt for it all...Yep, I'm ranting again...no, make that railing against the machine, yet again. It's f*cked up two channel gear to a fare-thee-well IMNSHO...screwed-up goin' to the movies...and Ho! what's this...before I'm accused of being unable to afford such ego-boosting expenditures...heck, I could easily afford to build a new wing on the old homestead and do it up real good soup-to-nuts! As much as I might like "The Maltese Falcon" or "The Godfather" or any of the 40-50 or so tapes and discs I own, what's the big deal? It's friggin tee-vee!!! Get a Friggin' life!!!

I have a 19" Maganvox/Philips tee-vee, an 8yr.-old top-of the-line Sony VHS(moron that I am !) and a JVC DVD-player my wife got for opening a bank account somewhere...more than sufficient to transport me into that vast wasteland...

jimHJJ(...next time I'll tell ya' what I really think...)

Bernd
01-12-2006, 09:56 AM
...HT used to be the domain of the Spielbergs et al...much like oversized houses, gas-guzzling SUVs, $ 6USD cups of mocha-java-latte, designer t-shirts, ridiculously-priced speaker wires and all the rest, it's simply "lookie at what I got"...the old my dog's bigger than your dog bull$h!t...

Just some trickle-down of the worst kind...and folks wallow in it, get deeply in debt for it all...Yep, I'm ranting again...no, make that railing against the machine, yet again. It's f*cked up two channel gear to a fare-thee-well IMNSHO...screwed-up goin' to the movies...and Ho! what's this...before I'm accused of being unable to afford such ego-boosting expenditures...heck, I could easily afford to build a new wing on the old homestead and do it up real good soup-to-nuts! As much as I might like "The Maltese Falcon" or "The Godfather" or any of the 40-50 or so tapes and discs I own, what's the big deal? It's friggin tee-vee!!! Get a Friggin' life!!!

I have a 19" Maganvox/Philips tee-vee, an 8yr.-old top-of the-line Sony VHS(moron that I am !) and a JVC DVD-player my wife got for opening a bank account somewhere...more than sufficient to transport me into that vast wasteland...

jimHJJ(...next time I'll tell ya' what I really think...)

I like it,I like it.

Now tell us what is really bothering you.

Bernd

Bernd
01-12-2006, 10:06 AM
I only have a 5% or 10% interest in movies, even so I have a HT. This is mainly because I like sound coming from all directions, this goes back to my quadraphonic days.
But buying movies is different for me than buying music. Unless it's from the bargain bin, I look for movies that I think I can watch several times without getting sick of it. I also look for movies with DTS tracks as this for me is what it about, the HT experience. Even so after watching a movie 4 or 5 times it becomes increasingly difficult to watch it again. Whereas music you can play it 1000 of times if you like it.
So for movies that have limited appeal it is better for me to rent them and take em back.
Movies I bought for the HT experience:
Rambo I - DTS
Rambo II - DTS
Once Upon a Time in the West - DTS
Predator - DTS
Die Hard Series- DTS
Gladiator - DTS
Pearl Harbor- DTS
Die Another Day- DTS
Troy- DD
Star Wars Series- DD
Saving Private Ryan- DD
Concert videos - DTS

That speakes to me. I have several movies, but couldn't envisage watching more than one at a session.
So I am still not sure if collecting is as important to HT fans as it is to the two channel only.

Bernd

topspeed
01-12-2006, 10:45 AM
I have a HT but if you were to look into my racks, you'd see far, far more music than movies. Perhaps if I had a dedicated HT room like Robert or N.Abstensia, I might have more movies...but I doubt it. Personally, I'd rather have a dedicated two channel music room that I could fill with a minimalist rig and my drum kits.


Am I loking at it from a wrong angle ie.a collector and music fan? Maybe...

Is building a large collection of movies not in the forefront of HT owner ship? Certainly for some it is. Some collections are pretty big, such as Wooch and GM's. Sir T needs professional help, but we all knew that already ;). I'm more like Wireworm in that I'll usually only buy something that I know I'll watch over and over. Understand, just because it's a great movie doesn't mean I'll want to watch it multiple times. Take Shindler's List. By all accounts, a landmark movie and one that I loved in the theater. However, the sheer emotional commitment required by this movie would preclude me from wanting to watch again. Platoon is in the same category. After viewing either of these, I'm emotionally spent for the rest of the day.

For many of us, our HT is in the living room. Because of this, we can enjoy HD broadcasts in 5.1 any time we want to. Whether it's Lost on network channels or Million Dollar Baby on HBO, the rig heightens the experience and really, that's what it's all about.

Bernd
01-12-2006, 11:03 AM
I have a HT but if you were to look into my racks, you'd see far, far more music than movies. Perhaps if I had a dedicated HT room like Robert or N.Abstensia, I might have more movies...but I doubt it. Personally, I'd rather have a dedicated two channel music room that I could fill with a minimalist rig and my drum kits.

Maybe...
Certainly for some it is. Some collections are pretty big, such as Wooch and GM's. Sir T needs professional help, but we all knew that already ;). I'm more like Wireworm in that I'll usually only buy something that I know I'll watch over and over. Understand, just because it's a great movie doesn't mean I'll want to watch it multiple times. Take Shindler's List. By all accounts, a landmark movie and one that I loved in the theater. However, the sheer emotional commitment required by this movie would preclude me from wanting to watch again. Platoon is in the same category. After viewing either of these, I'm emotionally spent for the rest of the day.

For many of us, our HT is in the living room. Because of this, we can enjoy HD broadcasts in 5.1 any time we want to. Whether it's Lost on network channels or Million Dollar Baby on HBO, the rig heightens the experience and really, that's what it's all about.

Yes this makes sense to me. I also bought Schindlers List after I've seen it in the Cinema. Have never watched it again. Much too painful. All I really wanted to know is, if I fancy a certain type of music I select a record and it can lead me all over the place. It's not really possible with movies though.But then again completely different medium.
I take the point of broadcasts and if that's what you're into-good on you.

Bernd

paul_pci
01-12-2006, 11:35 AM
I think you're onto something. I was in Best Buiy yesterday looking to buy the new special ediition of Dead Poets Society and started chatting with this other guy who was also looking for the dvd. It turns out that this guy has 1600 titles! while i have about 120. If you do the calculations, even at two movies a day, averaging two hours each, it would take 800 days or 2.19 years to watch all those titles once through. To me that's kinda insane. I like watching dvds, but I'm also stocking up for a time when I may not have cable or satellite, and I won't certainly get up to 1600 titles.

GMichael
01-12-2006, 11:51 AM
So, in many ways the collections can be the same. But by their very nature they can't be completely the same. CD's can be listened to anywhere at any time. DVD's are a little more location specific. And of coarse, unless you are LJ, you would watch a whole movie at a time instead of a few minutes here and there.

RGA
01-12-2006, 11:53 AM
Resident loser is not too far off IMV. One does not need to spend piles of money on a music system to enjoy music they love. I like Sarah Mclachlan and I like listening to her even played as Muzak in a shopping mall with those mall speakers. You can put Mrs. or Miss Spears on the finest Audio note system in the world but it's still crap because she's crap.

That is the difference between many most (not all) movie home theater people -- they will buy the film equivelant to me of Brittany Spears JUST because it has a cool synthesizer effect. I don't buy audio music discs because ti's well recorded - well years ago I bought a few but the music doesn;t cut it so it never gets playtime.

I have in excess of 200 DVDs and before that i was on the Laser disc trail. But never did I buy movies because it had a good surround track - I had surround sound and got rid of it. There is nothing at all necessary to the film that I must hear from rear effects -- and nothing important gained from proper panning from left to right (interestingly two speakers if there is a wall behind your listening position will still have bullits sound as though they're coming from behind you. It may not be as good but it is still immersive.

Anyway the point is most good films like a good stage play has the viewer able to suspend their disbelief. The reason why Film is more popular than the stage is people don;t want to be actively engaged with the presentation they want the dfilm to think for them. And the films that do ask audiences to think probably are not the ones that use much if any sound effects of any great need. (ie drama versus this weeks action cop buddy flick).

So you may say if I'm happy to listen to Sarah M on mall speakers why buy a relativley pricey home audio -- well home adio is my toy -- since it's the only toy I go after and I fell it enhances her and every other artist I enjoy and the company does not use slave labour from China to build it but real unionized English professionals.

All this stuff are adult toys and it's funny because all the pissing matches on all these forums reminds me of when I was 9 arguing that Soundwave was a better transformer than Galvatron. I mean soundwave could eject those tapes that turned into things -- Galvatron was just a big gun how boring was that. Pretty sad that I'm 32 and I just realized that all these years I have still been arguing over the same thing. Even soundwave was an audio product being a robot that turns into a tape deck. :D

Feanor
01-12-2006, 11:53 AM
Here is the thing that puzzles me about HT.
I am a pure two channel audio guy with a large(ish) Music collection 5000+. Take the average record and you have appr.30-40 min of music. So in a two hour session you could listen to 3-4 records. Or jump in and out of selected tracks
....
I would realy like to hear how you work it.

Peace

Bernd
5000 records, (LPs I guess) * 35 minutes = 3000 hours

3000 hrs / 2.5 hr/listening session = 1200 sessions

1200 sessions / 6 sessions/week = 200 weeks = 3 years, 8 months to listen to your whole collection without any repeats

Will this ever happen? :rolleyes:

GMichael
01-12-2006, 12:10 PM
RGA? No way. Where've you been? Miss you around here.

As far as what you say about surround having no meaning (or something to that extent), I can see why you would say that. You seem to enjoy movies with more of a story than those with lots of action. Maybe not in all cases, but some right? You don't need surround for the story. Surround is for bullets flying past your head hitting the wall behind you. Or large explosions. I like some of the music in movies too but also the birds in the woods. The twig snapping as someone sneaks up behind you. The roar of an engine in a race. Have you seen Polar Express? The locomotive is major loud in the beginning. It's not the whole story. And not worth buying the DVD for if there was nothing else to enjoy in it. But some of us love this stuff. You don't have to. I won't be offended.

Yeah, too many fights. Although I do enjoy being immature. Just makes me smile. :p

Good to see you post again. How have you been?

RGA
01-12-2006, 12:11 PM
Yes this makes sense to me. I also bought Schindlers List after I've seen it in the Cinema. Have never watched it again. Much too painful. All I really wanted to know is, if I fancy a certain type of music I select a record and it can lead me all over the place. It's not really possible with movies though.But then again completely different medium.
I take the point of broadcasts and if that's what you're into-good on you.

Bernd

It's interesting, I watched Schindler's List 7 times at the theater. yes seven - that is no misprint. I went into that movie not knwoing anything about it because ti was not advertised...I was with a friend - completely transcended the movie going experience to such a degree that I knew I needed to see this as many times on the big screen while it lasted.

I paid over $100.00 for a limited edition boxed Laserdisc set (still have it even though I have no laserdisc player. Watched 3 times on LD - Bought the boxed DVD set a year ago have not played it yet.

As a histoy minor (Schindler's List was a reason I selected History to be my minor) I was expecting that my academic studies would yield a negative view of the film -- the reverse happened. Spielberg and his writing crew were phenomenally even handed on the picture - following the book's main messages changing what was needed to work for the big screen. I always laugh at those dumb critics for attacking the scene with the girl in the red coat -- the establishment is so anti-Spielberg (if not anti-Jew) that they say the red coat girl was just another overly manipulative sentimental thing Spielberg added in -- hmm guess they never read the book (says much about their film criticism). Schindler breaks down at the end - which never was proven to happen -- Spielberg is blamed by same critics as trying to explain Schindler and he should not have. Again, we know what happened to Schindler after the war -- a depressed man who felt incredibly guilty for not "having done more" an alcoholic who lived off the financial help of the Jews he divorced and was pennyless. Spielberg puts this now broken man at the end of his film and he gets criticized for it -- well it is just pathetic film criticism.

Anywho rant over. Buying a film is different in that one may only watch the movie once in 3 years...but compare that to renting. You have to drive to the video store and hope it's in and pay $5.00Cad to get it...if the video chain even carries the film you want. in the long run buying the movie is cheaper IF it is a movie you will re-watch. Some movies I like but won't re-view them so why buy it.

but truthfully that is no different than much of my music collentcion -- I find the same discs get replayed in my collection. AN's owner owns 70,000+ albums and it is a physical impossibility for him to play all of those. But then there is such a thing as a music collector like a card or stamp collector.

kexodusc
01-12-2006, 12:18 PM
I have a dedicated HT room and 2-channel stereo room, but my "active" music collection (not including boxed up LP's, discarded casettes, and a few boxes of CD's I haven't pawned yet) is at least 3 to 1 the size of all my DVD's. Sure I've been collecting music longer, but I think I have more time to sit, and listen to music.

It's easier to sit and listen to even 20 minutes of music than to sit and try to engage in 20 minutes of a movie. You pretty much need 90 minutes or 2 hours or so...I bet if you add up all the short music listening sessions I engage in, it adds up to a substantial percentage of all my music listening time.

So I get more use out of music. This justifies owning more music than video.

Coincidentally enough, I'm more likely to listen to an album far many more times than I will watch a movie, as well.

How many times have you listened to Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon? How many times have you watched Jaws? I'd be shocked if the ratio wasn't at least 20:1 for me, and I watch Jaws at least once a year.

Woochifer
01-12-2006, 12:27 PM
I've got fairly large collections of both music and DVDs (500+ CDs, 300+ LPs, and 400+ DVDs). A lot of it is about the viewing/listening enjoyment, but the collecting side of the hobby is also about "completing" certain parts of a given collection because you're a fan. For example, musicians and groups that I followed when I was in high school and in college, it was almost like a personal challenge to not only collect their albums, but to find different versions. For example, once I finished collecting The Who's U.S. releases, I began hunting down other versions, like half-speed mastered audiophile pressings, Deutsche Grammaphone's limited edition pressings, and the British versions of their earlier material.

I pulled back from doing this once CDs came along and made the market more homogenized than before. Some of the newer reissues that package classic albums with alternate takes, live performances, and other unreleased material, are making CDs fun to collect again, but this definitely wasn't the case for a long time.

It's the same thing with movies, and in a lot of ways, DVDs provide more in the way of collectibility than CDs do. With DVDs, I will buy certain movies because I want to watch them, or because I want to watch them over and over. With certain directors or genres, I will buy them to fill holes in my collection in the same way that I used to populate my LP/CD collections with certain musicians and groups. Other titles I will because of the sensory experience that they provide with the 5.1 DD and DTS soundtracks. Once I've watched a movie all the way through, then I can easily pop a DVD in just to watch certain favorite scenes over again.

The collectibility of DVDs is further enhanced by the bonus supplementals that come with a lot of them, particularly the reissues of important films. To me, that's a big reason to buy DVDs because things like commentary tracks take a lot of time to mine through, and you can't always carve out the time to do that with a rental (Netflix not withstanding). For example, the Lord of the Rings extended editions each had up to FOUR commentary tracks on them, plus about hours upon hours of production documentaries. For each of those movies, I watched them over with both the cast commentary and director/writer commentary, but I took my time with them. Same thing with the production documentaries. If you own the DVD, then it's easy to pick up and watch short snippets at a time.

A lot of DVDs are also collectible because of the studios' reviled practice of "double dipping" consumers by constantly churning out one DVD version after another. The collectibility is often enhanced because the "new" version of a DVD is not always an "improved" version.

For example, Gladiator was originally released as a two-disc set with a reference quality 6.1 DTS ES soundtrack and commentary tracks, and a bonus features disc that included production documentaries as well as a Discovery Channel documentary about real gladiators. The re-release of Gladiator on DVD eliminated the bonus disc, and reworked the main DVD by purging the DTS ES soundtrack. If you want to watch Gladiator in DTS ES, you have no choice but to track down the original version, which has been out of print for more than three years.

Alien is another movie that has seen no fewer than four DVD releases. The first version was a two-disc set with nonanamorphic widescreen and a bonus disc; the second version was a stripped down one-disc set also with nonanamorphic widescreen; the third version was a two-disc Digipak set released in conjunction with the Alien Quadrilogy boxed set and it included anamorphic widescreen, DTS, and a bonus features disc; and recently, I saw a FOURTH version that stripped it back down to a single-disc.

GMichael
01-12-2006, 12:31 PM
How many times have you listened to Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon? How many times have you watched Jaws? I'd be shocked if the ratio wasn't at least 20:1 for me, and I watch Jaws at least once a year.

My guess is that the ratio would be much higher. I wore out DSOTM on 8-track, cassets, & LP's. If CD's could wear out it would be. Now it's recorded on my CDR's hard drive. Must be in the thousands.
Jaws, maybe 4 or 5 times max.

They just aren't the same beast.

L.J.
01-12-2006, 01:19 PM
I have about 200+ of both(DVD & CD). I also have a love for both. I can't stand Blockbuster and found it was easier to just buy the movie. Netflix became a waste for me, because I was not always able to keep up with enough rentals to justify the price. I'm not in it for the DTS track :rolleyes: . Well not all the time. I have movies with mono and stereo tracks. There was a poll done awhile back, about why we purchased DVD's, and most(including myself) chose because of the story. I also like having options at the house. Sometimes I listen to hardcore rap, sometimes it's smooth jazz. Same with DVD's, sometimes I grab for my old school monster flics, sometimes it's a western or comedy. You can't do that when you only own 15 DVD's. Also I'm in it for the entire experience. As GM brought out, it's not all about bullets whizzing past your head. I enjoy the entire experience of watching a film, in all the comforts of home, but still getting that theater feel. It makes sense, to me, why some would go as far as having a dedicated theater/listen' room. I hope to take it that far myself. In the end, I receive enjoyment from both will continue to collect both.

L.J.
01-12-2006, 01:25 PM
And of coarse, unless you are LJ, you would watch a whole movie at a time instead of a few minutes here and there.

My day will come

GMichael
01-12-2006, 01:25 PM
My day will come

I was wondering if you were going to let that go.

When was the last time you watched a whole DVD in one sitting? Did you finish Serenity yet?

L.J.
01-12-2006, 01:35 PM
I was wondering if you were going to let that go.

When was the last time you watched a whole DVD in one sitting? Did you finish Serenity yet?

I've been trying to finish to LOTR trilogy. I'm almost done over a nice 3 weeks. No I haven't finished Serenity. I did watch the entire Batman Begins about a week ago.

This is me trying to keep peace in the house:
LJ- Honey, you think I could watch a movie tonight
Wifee - Well I'd like to take a shower and get some things done around the house
LJ- Well why don't I take little LJ for awhile so you can take a shower now
Wifee-What about the kitchen and dishes
LJ-I'll do it first thing in the morning

LJ(Later that night, speakers blastin, adult drink in hand)-YES!!! Now what should I watch..... :confused:

GMichael
01-12-2006, 01:49 PM
I've been trying to finish to LOTR trilogy. I'm almost done over a nice 3 weeks. No I haven't finished Serenity. I did watch the entire Batman Begins about a week ago.

This is me trying to keep peace in the house:
LJ- Honey, you think I could watch a movie tonight
Wifee - Well I'd like to take a shower and get some things done around the house
LJ- Well why don't I take little LJ for awhile so you can take a shower now
Wifee-What about the kitchen and dishes
LJ-I'll do it first thing in the morning

LJ(Later that night, speakers blastin, adult drink in hand)-YES!!! Now what should I watch..... :confused:

Deja vu!

Is your wife a 4' 7" asian girl?

L.J.
01-12-2006, 01:54 PM
Deja vu!

Is your wife a 4' 7" asian girl?

I'd say about 5' 2". Portuguese


The problem is when I watch a movie, she's stuck in our room with little LJ, because it's too loud for his little ears. Before little LJ was born, I watched a movie almost every other night. My day will come again. I have made use of those Senn. headphones I picked up.

GMichael
01-12-2006, 01:58 PM
I'd say about 5' 2". Portuguese.

She sounds hot.



The problem is when I watch a movie, she's stuck in our room with little LJ, because it's too loud for his little ears. Before little LJ was born, I watched a movie almost every other night. My day will come again. I have made use of those Senn. headphones I picked up.

Doesn't your volume knob turn to the left at all?

L.J.
01-12-2006, 02:26 PM
She sounds hot.

Only the best for LJ



Doesn't your volume knob turn to the left at all?

:eek:....... Get a rope! :mad:

GMichael
01-12-2006, 02:36 PM
Only the best for LJ




:eek:....... Get a rope! :mad:


Hmm.... I think we may be getting to the root of things here.

There's this new thing out now. It's called moderation. It may help LJjr get into HT with you. It's never too early. Have you seen Finding Nemo or the Lion King?

L.J.
01-12-2006, 03:34 PM
We tried to watch Jaws and Cinderella Man at low volumes. Jaws was OK, but CM had low dialog and was hard to hear on some scenes. Sometimes I like to hear that sub rumble, ya know!

Woochifer
01-12-2006, 06:21 PM
Resident loser is not too far off IMV. One does not need to spend piles of money on a music system to enjoy music they love. I like Sarah Mclachlan and I like listening to her even played as Muzak in a shopping mall with those mall speakers. You can put Mrs. or Miss Spears on the finest Audio note system in the world but it's still crap because she's crap.

I'll agree with you here. Good music is good music, regardless of the system that you play on it. But, a good movie can also be enjoyed through a tiny TV and chintzy speaker.


That is the difference between many most (not all) movie home theater people -- they will buy the film equivelant to me of Brittany Spears JUST because it has a cool synthesizer effect. I don't buy audio music discs because ti's well recorded - well years ago I bought a few but the music doesn;t cut it so it never gets playtime.

Well, I don't think the home theater example's any different than someone shelling out $18 for CD just because they just heard a song that they like on the radio. They might play the song a few times and then forget about the CD because the rest of the album sucks. And let's not forget about the many CDs out there that might have mediocre music, but audiophiles snap up because of the sound quality. I don't see that as any different than HT owners who might buy a certain movie because of the soundtrack.

I know that the majority of DVDs in my collection I purchased because either I already liked the movie, or knew enough about it to make a blind buy, or it helped complete a collection (e.g. I bought all 10 of the collector's edition Star Trek movie DVDs, even though I seriously debated whether I really wanted to buy V and Insurrection). Only a few of them (e.g. The Haunting and Twister) I bought strictly as demo/test discs for the audio. Keep in mind that a DVD is much more of a multimedia format than the CD, and gives consumers a lot of different reasons to buy -- the movie itself being obviously the most important one, but there's also the bonus features and multimedia extras to consider as well.


I have in excess of 200 DVDs and before that i was on the Laser disc trail. But never did I buy movies because it had a good surround track - I had surround sound and got rid of it. There is nothing at all necessary to the film that I must hear from rear effects -- and nothing important gained from proper panning from left to right (interestingly two speakers if there is a wall behind your listening position will still have bullits sound as though they're coming from behind you. It may not be as good but it is still immersive.

But, you can make the same argument with music as well. A reference quality audio system does not make the music of a Coltrane for example any better. But, just as a good audio system enhances the listening experience, a decent surround setup and high resolution video monitor will do the same thing for movies. The sound design is part of the director's vision for a movie, and nowadays the only way to really hear something as it was intended to be heard is through a surround system.

CDs are mixed with the intention of being played back through a two-channel system. Playing good music back in mono is still good music, but part of the artist's intended experience is missing. IMO, the same thing applies when playing a movie with a 5.1 soundtrack using a two-channel mixdown. It might still be a good movie and worth watching, but the viewer's not getting the fully intended immersive impact.


Anyway the point is most good films like a good stage play has the viewer able to suspend their disbelief. The reason why Film is more popular than the stage is people don;t want to be actively engaged with the presentation they want the dfilm to think for them. And the films that do ask audiences to think probably are not the ones that use much if any sound effects of any great need. (ie drama versus this weeks action cop buddy flick).

Apples and oranges here. A stage play is involving because the actors are in the same room, much the same way that music is more involving when it's live. Sure, stage plays ask you to imagine more, but that's because the medium cannot convey real or imagined life in as many different ways as movies can. In that regard, stage plays are more limited in what they feasibly create with an audience, while a movie has many avenues open, some of which can make an audience think even more by more effectively focusing in on specific elements to react to (movies like The Sixth Sense or Memento very much force the audience to think a lot, and can only accomplish this by using cinematic rather than dramatic techniques; a stage play format could not have told those stories effectively). I mean, audiobooks require even more suspension of disbelief, because that medium is missing the visual element altogether.

And I don't necessarily equate asking audiences to think with the type of movie that it is. For example, a good science fiction can ask far more of the audience than your typical paint-by-numbers melodramas. And there, the sound design is usually an integral part of sci-fi films.

Even with dialog-driven movies, a well mixed discrete 5.1 system draws the audience closer to what's on screen. I mean, if the whole point of a decent two-channel audio setup is to bring the audience closer to the music, then why would that same logic not apply with HT sources?

Bernd
01-13-2006, 04:18 AM
5000 records, (LPs I guess) * 35 minutes = 3000 hours

3000 hrs / 2.5 hr/listening session = 1200 sessions

1200 sessions / 6 sessions/week = 200 weeks = 3 years, 8 months to listen to your whole collection without any repeats

Will this ever happen? :rolleyes:

Highly unlikley-but that is missing the point completely. Maybe my fault for not explaining myself better when I set the post.
I am talking about experiencing a journey-I explain.

Example from last night: I started off with Neil Young-This Note's for you. I really enjoyed it and if it leads me onto a journey I have several options. Stick with the artist,style,producer,recording studio,etc. You get the drift. I choose the producer-Niko Bolas,which led me to Mike Scott-Bring'em all in. Completeley different style and music but Mr.Bolas' handy work all over the recording (Clear,intimate and not a note out of place).
This now can take me to several places. Back to where I started,or The Waterboys,The Sawdoctors,etc.
That's what I mean by a journey. It doesn't always happen, but when it does it's magical. I also like the option to just dive in and select a record blind and see what happens.
So the point that puzzled me is this. You couldn't do that with a movie.Therefore the complete movie would have to be watched to get the full experience. And with the time constraines, a DVD collection would be more like a Library to select a certain film and experience that.Almost like a book I presume. I am sure there are many really fine HT set-ups around that bring real pleasure and bring the cinematic experience home.And that is great. I was thinking about the collecting of the medium. As for music videos I find it difficult to listen to the quality of the sound while watching moving images. Just me I guess.
Thanks for all the responses it made great reading and educated me about HT and the people that use it and enjoy it..

Peace

Bernd

GMichael
01-13-2006, 05:56 AM
We tried to watch Jaws and Cinderella Man at low volumes. Jaws was OK, but CM had low dialog and was hard to hear on some scenes. Sometimes I like to hear that sub rumble, ya know!

Does your receiver have "night listening" or some other type of sound compression?

Feanor
01-13-2006, 06:17 AM
I've got fairly large collections of both music and DVDs (500+ CDs, 300+ LPs, and 400+ DVDs). A lot of it is about the viewing/listening enjoyment, but the collecting side of the hobby is also about "completing" certain parts of a given collection because you're a fan. ....
Wooch, the CD/LP/DVD ratio at my house isn't all that different from yours: 500 CD/SACDs; 250 vinyl; 200-300 DVDs. However my personal collection is much different: 350 CD/SACD; 120 LPs; <20 DVDs.

My wife and daugher are the DVD collectors -- they like to have their favorite moves on disc even though they watch them infrequently. My wife also likes to buy from the "bargain bin". I'm happy with Blockbuster myself, and I don't even rent very often.

My music collection strategy is based on collecting music, not performers, hence I am trying to build up a basic classical repertoire. The particular piece of music is the primary decission, then I look for a good performance with good sound. I had a long hiatus from collecting (and even listening) hence my classical collection is still only about 300.

I've started to collect jazz too. my strategy there is just a bit different: I choose a genre I like, (Bop, Hard Bop, Cool, West Coast), then I research the most highly regarding recordings.

L.J.
01-13-2006, 07:08 AM
Does your receiver have "night listening" or some other type of sound compression?

What! You again?

GMichael
01-13-2006, 07:19 AM
What! You again?

No, I'm not me today. Somebody else has my password and is posting in my place.
Wait till I get my hands on me! I'm gonna make me pay for this.

L.J.
01-13-2006, 07:55 AM
No, I'm not me today. Somebody else has my password and is posting in my place.
Wait till I get my hands on me! I'm gonna make me pay for this.

I don't care for the night mode. I watched Alien and Aliens with my headphones a few weeks ago and I was really impressed with them. So if all else fails, I'll just use the headphones. My buddy has a HT, but it's one of those $199.00 thingies from walmart. I never say anything bad about it, though. We just sit and listen to that sub(poor choice of words) rattle away.

dean_martin
01-13-2006, 10:02 AM
Highly unlikley-but that is missing the point completely. Maybe my fault for not explaining myself better when I set the post.
I am talking about experiencing a journey-I explain.

Example from last night: I started off with Neil Young-This Note's for you. I really enjoyed it and if it leads me onto a journey I have several options. Stick with the artist,style,producer,recording studio,etc. You get the drift. I choose the producer-Niko Bolas,which led me to Mike Scott-Bring'em all in. Completeley different style and music but Mr.Bolas' handy work all over the recording (Clear,intimate and not a note out of place).
This now can take me to several places. Back to where I started,or The Waterboys,The Sawdoctors,etc.
That's what I mean by a journey. It doesn't always happen, but when it does it's magical. I also like the option to just dive in and select a record blind and see what happens.
So the point that puzzled me is this. You couldn't do that with a movie.Therefore the complete movie would have to be watched to get the full experience. And with the time constraines, a DVD collection would be more like a Library to select a certain film and experience that.Almost like a book I presume. I am sure there are many really fine HT set-ups around that bring real pleasure and bring the cinematic experience home.And that is great. I was thinking about the collecting of the medium. As for music videos I find it difficult to listen to the quality of the sound while watching moving images. Just me I guess.
Thanks for all the responses it made great reading and educated me about HT and the people that use it and enjoy it..

Peace

Bernd

Musical journey vs. Cinematic journey

I think when you're exploring genres of film, particular directors or films from countries other than your own, it's relatively easy to take a cinematic journey if you have the time. And, it can be done without a 5.1 or more HT rig.

When I was a student and worked out of my home, I had a hi-fi vcr, modest stereo receiver and some standmount speakers just big enough for a little bass response. A classmate and I were into collecting import videos and movies you could rarely find in the video rental stores. Ocassionally I could sit down and watch a "double feature" of spaghettie westerns, low-budget Euro horror, David Lynch films or Elia Kazan films. Most of the time the first film would lead me to the next by theme, director, style, actor or contrast.

Unfortunately, 2 films in one sitting is the max for me and probably for most humans. I could probably tie a marathon cinematic journey together if I had a full 24 hour period with nothing else to do and could sit around in my boxers the whole time.

Here's a link to a thread on the favorite films board that relates in a way to what you're saying. A few members put together their version of a week-long movie marathon. You can tell some thought went into it. Of course they're pre-planned, but I think you could see how one film could lead to the next. A cinematic journey may not be as spontaneous as and it may have more limitations than a musical journey, but you can do some travellin'.

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=13138

Bernd
01-13-2006, 10:10 AM
Musical journey vs. Cinematic journey

I think when you're exploring genres of film, particular directors or films from countries other than your own, it's relatively easy to take a cinematic journey if you have the time. And, it can be done without a 5.1 or more HT rig.

When I was a student and worked out of my home, I had a hi-fi vcr, modest stereo receiver and some standmount speakers just big enough for a little bass response. A classmate and I were into collecting import videos and movies you could rarely find in the video rental stores. Ocassionally I could sit down and watch a "double feature" of spaghettie westerns, low-budget Euro horror, David Lynch films or Elia Kazan films. Most of the time the first film would lead me to the next by theme, director, style, actor or contrast.

Unfortunately, 2 films in one sitting is the max for me and probably for most humans. I could probably tie a marathon cinematic journey together if I had a full 24 hour period with nothing else to do and could sit around in my boxers the whole time.

Here's a link to a thread on the favorite films board that relates in a way to what you're saying. A few members put together their version of a week-long movie marathon. You can tell some thought went into it. Of course they're pre-planned, but I think you could see how one film could lead to the next. A cinematic journey may not be as spontaneous as and it may have more limitations than a musical journey, but you can do some travellin'.

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=13138

Thanks Dean,

A really intelligent response of what I was mulling over for some time. The time constrainet for movie fans must be a drag. I couldn't imagine myself to sit through more then one movie at a time. Guess we're all different. So I wish enjoyment to one and all whatever there into.

Peace

Bernd