Integrated amp in $2k range for Magnepan 1.6?

[Mike Anderson]

I'm awaiting delivery on a pair of 1.6qr's, and thinking about upgrading my amp (currently a Musical Fidelity A3.2). I'm looking for a 2-channel integrated amp in the $2k-and-under price range (used is great), and would appreciate some recommendations.

Details:

My room isn't huge (15'x20'). I listen to a wide variety of stuff, dominated by ambient/electronica for which resolution is very important, but also rock, jazz, and a small amount of classical.

I'd highly prefer something with a remote control. XLR inputs would be nice too. I don't have a lot of vinyl, so a great phono input isn't a necessity.

A hybrid with tube preamp would also be nice, but not crucial.

Thoughts?

Florian has recommended the Pathos Acoustic One mkII, which fits all of the above criteria, so I plan to audition it once my speakers are broken in.

Links to good used deals on Audiogon and elsewhere are also appreciated. I saw a Plinuis 9200 for $2300 that's slightly out of my price range, but if i can pick it up for cheaper, is that a good match for the 1.6qr's?

Thanks,
Mike

[Florian]

Manley Stingray, Pathos Acoustics Classic One MKI and MKII, Perfect & Pure Audio CST-80, Jadis Orchestra 6550C ;)

[Mike Anderson]

Manley Stingray

Cool-looking amp, but... no remote control (this is really important to me), no balanced inputs, and for my needs, too many tubes!

I'd prefer SS power, if possible. I just don't want to have to deal with re-tubing all the time. But if there's a tube-powered amp that has a remote and is particularly well-matched to the 1.6qr's, I'll consider it.

[Mike Anderson]

Perfect & Pure Audio CST-80

Only web pages I can find on this are in German! Got any links for a 'Murican ignoramus like myself?

[Florian]

Well i dont know if they have remotes or not, i just recommend on sound ;-) You will be extremely hard pressed to find a SS amp that will beat these guys. Dont worry about retubing, they hold a very long time. They held 5 years on my Pathos.

-Flo

[Mike Anderson]

Jadis Orchestra also has no remote.

Tubes are a possibility, I'm not ruling them out altogether. But I'm not convinced of the superiority of tubes, frankly. Maybe I'm dead wrong about that I suppose...

Lord knows I love tubes in guitar amps, and in fact I have dozens of high quality NOS tubes sitting around for that purpose. But in guitar amps you're trying to get the smooth sound of nonlinear distortion that only tubes can provide.

If we're talking about accurate, distortion-free reproduction, do tubes really offer any advantage over SS?

[Florian]

Not all tubes are created equal, you just have to meet the right ones ;-)

[Mike Anderson]

Do you know anything about the Plinius 9200? I see a lot of good reviews for it, and a number of people use it with 1.6qrs.

[Florian]

I have heard several Plinius in the past and always found them nice, not really my choice but a good choice nonetheless. Personally i find they lack that *extra something. Dont know what really, but something is missing. You should check them out tough, but try some of those i mentioned you might hear what i mean.

[Mike Anderson]

A lot of the people at the MUG recommend Bryston w/maggies. I saw a brand new B100 SST go for about $2k on Audiogon, and it looked good. Any thoughts on those?

[Florian]

I absolutly hate Bryston and McIntosh on Maggies. They are great on many speakers but a NONONONONONO on Maggies for me. But you might like them, youll never know :-)

[Mike Anderson]

I absolutly hate Bryston and McIntosh on Maggies. They are great on many speakers but a NONONONONONO on Maggies for me. But you might like them, youll never know :-)

Perhaps you can be a little more specific about why you don't like these amps, versus why you like the amps above? That might help me figure out if your tastes gel with mine.

What kind of music are you listening to? How do you like it to sound? Do you listen to music loud?

[Florian]

Well its quite simple. This is what i look for

1. Very low level resolution
2. Decay of instruments
3. Downward dynamic range
4. Instrumental texture
5. 3D Rendering and Spatial Information.
6. Simulation of air and age of instruments
7. Imaging and staging abilities
8. Speed and control of drivers
9. Impadance swings and handling abilities
10. Matching the input impedance of electronics

I evalute these electronics on the most neutralest speakers i know (Apogees). The Brystons sound fat and warm with a tendency to please you on Maggies. They are closed in and not as open as the ones i recommend. They portray a bad downward dynamic range just like the Rotel or most other commercial amps. A amplifier has to be fast, deliver tons of current and has to capture all of the information listed above. For me 90% of the amps simply fail at that and the Maggies will show it.

Here goes my list of good manufactures (i know and like) and none of them should be mentioned with the commercial names most consider good or highend. But remember this is just my opinion and the general public does not agree.

Manley, Gryphon, Sphinx, Etalon, Vacuumstate, Lamm, Pathos, Silvaweld, Audio Research (below 10), Conrad Johnson (below 8), H2O, Krell (only old /E series), Mark Levinson (old models), Audio Note, Jadis (old Stuff) and some more that i dont remember now

As you can see i dont list big names and the reason is that they get labeld as High End and have one big deal after the next, but the really good equipment is timeless and you can only find out why if you actually try the equipment and stop reading stupid reviews and listening to the commercial guys with tiny boxes and resonating cabinets who praise the digital world and throw you one glowing review after the next infront of your nose.

LISTEN to the rarest ones

PS: Its not a particular TECHNOLOGY (in my opinion nothing happend in the last 20 years) but there is simple good stuff out there and the food for the masses. Dont be with the masses.

[Mike Anderson]

So far my research makes the Classic One look really good -- of the amps in this price range, it has just what I want - balanced inputs, remotes, tube preamp, good sound.

But my local dealer only has the Classic One MkI in stock; I really want to audtition the MkII, but I don't know if anybody around here has one.

The salesman really seemed taken aback that I wanted to pair the Classic One with 1.6QRs, and he swore up and down it'd be a really bad combination. (Of course he wanted to sell me the Logos, or a Conrad Johnson pre-amp for $2,800 to run into my Musical Fidelity, which doesn't have direct ins...)

I might have to take a chance and buy a used one sight-unseen. I can always sell it back, but it would be a hassle.

Florian, are you sure about this combo? Do you like to listen to music LOUD? I want to be able to turn it up without clipping, is the Classic One really going to be able to do the job with Maggies???

[Florian]

The Pathos Acoustics Classic One is definetly up for the task regardless of what the dealer says. Of course he recommends you the Logos wich is twice as much. The Classic One can even drive my DIVA to aprox 100db, and if you know what 100db really means than you know that the Maggie wont do that either. Trust me on this, its a wonderfull match and i still own the little Pathos personally.

-Flo

[Mike Anderson]

^^ OK, I think I'm going to pull the trigger and see if I can get a good price on a used one. If it doesn't work out, I'll be able to get my money back anyway.

If I really like it, you're my best friend in the world; but if I don't I'm never listening to you again! ;)

I love the idea of running a Benchmark DAC1 with balanced outputs into the Classic One.

The salesman also claimed the MkII did NOT have balanced circuitry, but as nearly as I can tell it does. He also couldn't tell whether the demo unit they had was a MkI or MkII (I could easily tell it was a MkI).

In retrospect I should have asked him if he'd ever actually run the amp into 1.6QRs, I'm sure he'd have been forced to say "well ummm no".

Criminy I hate high-$$ salesmen... The last time I went car shopping it was like pulling teeth to get what I went in for...

[Florian]

Well you found the path to great speakers all by yourself so i am pretty save ;)
Get that Pathos and use some good cables with it with a low resistance. Its a true "Flo class A" musical amp and one of the finest matches with Maggies.

-Flo

[theaudiohobby]

So far my research makes the Classic One look really good -- of the amps in this price range, it has just what I want - balanced inputs, remotes, tube preamp, good sound.

But my local dealer only has the Classic One MkI in stock; I really want to audtition the MkII, but I don't know if anybody around here has one.

The salesman really seemed taken aback that I wanted to pair the Classic One with 1.6QRs, and he swore up and down it'd be a really bad combination. (Of course he wanted to sell me the Logos, or a Conrad Johnson pre-amp for $2,800 to run into my Musical Fidelity, which doesn't have direct ins...)

I might have to take a chance and buy a used one sight-unseen. I can always sell it back, but it would be a hassle.

Florian, are you sure about this combo? Do you like to listen to music LOUD? I want to be able to turn it up without clipping, is the Classic One really going to be able to do the job with Maggies???

First only the MKII is worth getting and MKI is no longer being made and has not been for while > 2 years, so I am rather surprised that your dealer claims to have one in stock. The Classic has soft bass and in that area, the Logos may outperform it, however the Classic is lively and open sounding amplifier, whose limitations become readily apparent with bass-heavy music or speakers that demand grunt in the low-end, also will the treble and bass balance be to your taste, Florian likes it, will you? I will suggest you listen to the Pathos if you have the opportunity because as I wrote many moons ago (probably over two years ago), it sounds great but it was handily outperformed in certain areas by other amplifiers at the time.

[Mike Anderson]

First only the MKII is worth getting and MKI is no longer being made and has not been for while > 2 years, so I am rather surprised that your dealer claims to have one in stock. The Classic has soft bass and in that area, the Logos may outperform it, however the Classic is lively and open sounding amplifier, whose limitations become readily apparent with bass-heavy music or speakers that demand grunt in the low-end, also will the treble and bass balance be to your taste, Florian likes it, will you? I will suggest you listen to the Pathos if you have the opportunity because as I wrote many moons ago (probably over two years ago), it sounds great but it was handily outperformed in certain areas by other amplifiers at the time.

I know about the soft bass, but if necessary, i have a subwoofer (though I'd kind of like to sell it).

Believe me, I'd love to spring for a Pathos, but I just don't have the money at this point.

[Florian]

The Pathos definetly doesnt have soft bass on the Maggies and does have enough punch, but you should expect real musical bass and not the typical in your face boom me out of the room box bass. ;) But i know that you will like it, we planar guys all feel alike in the major terms.

[Mike Anderson]

^^ I sort of get that sense.

What I'm looking for is resolution, detail, realism, and musicality.

A lot of people told me my MMGs would have crappy bass, but they sound better than I thought (flat down to about 60-55hz), so I've learned to take advice with a grain of salt. Everybody has different tastes. Also, my room may be conducive to good bass I suppose.

[Florian]

The 1.6 will do 30 to 35 on normal listening levels. But they will do it with the right balance and dipole bass is dipole bass. Enough said! You will love the Pathos, i can guarantee it. if you were close to me i would let you borrow the Pathos to try.

-Flo

[Mike Anderson]

What kind of cables should I be looking at? I need XLR cables to go between the DAC1 and the Pathos, and speaker cables obviously. I don't even know what I have now (some 14 gauge stuff they sold me at the audiophile store) -- I always figured it doesn't make much difference unless you're going > 20 ft or so (and I'm not).

[theaudiohobby]

I know about the soft bass, but if necessary, i have a subwoofer (though I'd kind of like to sell it).

Believe me, I'd love to spring for a Pathos, but I just don't have the money at this point.

Then you better listen to the Classic first, because I listen to it on at least 3 speakers and against other amplifiers, one which I still own, so I KNOW that it has a BIG weakness in the bass, I do not mean bass depth but clarity, definition and kick, this weakness heartily spotlighted by the TT. There are other sonic features of it that are to taste, I like it, but will you? If you plumb for the Classic MKII, I suggest you keep the subwoofer around, you will probably need it after the initial excitement wears out.

[Mike Anderson]

Florian,

Did you experiment a lot with different tubes in the Classic One? If so, what did you find best?

[Florian]

Florian,

Did you experiment a lot with different tubes in the Classic One? If so, what did you find best?
I didnt try many tubes in it, exept for some from Golden Dragon and EiElites. For speaker cables i recommend QED Millenium Biwire MKII. Run the 1.6 BiWired with flat cables. To address the popping in from AudioHobby, he properlby ran it on the small Quads which ofcourse is a horrible match, but on the Maggie its a match made in heaven.

-Flo

[Feanor]

Well its quite simple. This is what i look for

1. Very low level resolution
2. Decay of instruments
3. Downward dynamic range
4. Instrumental texture
5. 3D Rendering and Spatial Information.
6. Simulation of air and age of instruments
7. Imaging and staging abilities
8. Speed and control of drivers
9. Impadance swings and handling abilities
10. Matching the input impedance of electronics
...
Here goes my list of good manufactures ...

Manley, Gryphon, Sphinx, Etalon, Vacuumstate, Lamm, Pathos, Silvaweld, Audio Research (below 10), Conrad Johnson (below 8), H2O, Krell (only old /E series), Mark Levinson (old models), Audio Note, Jadis (old Stuff) and some more that i dont remember now
....
And, as you say, the like of the Appoges are the way to evaluate them.

All said and done, though, the only one I would personally consider is the H2O -- but then I'm cheap and I like digital.

[theaudiohobby]

... To address the popping in from AudioHobby, he properlby ran it on the small Quads which ofcourse is a horrible match, but on the Maggie its a match made in heaven. -Flo

What a load of r****h! Aside from the ESL989, the Classic MKII is a good match for the Quads with the proviso that I have stated earlier, By the way, I am not the only one on record to state that. And as stated earlier, the trait I elaborated is consistent across a gamut of loudspeakers.

[Florian]

Listen here, i can easily break out my horrible bass responce from the Quad989 experience which i auditioned too with my friend who owns the MG20R active. I can easily tell you that the Pathos does a very good job on the VMPS RM30M, Maggie .6, 1.6 and 3.6's and on the Apogee DIVA. I own that device and it sits across my table. If you dont like it, thats fine! I remeber before you got the Quads you could barely understand what i said when i mentioned real sound and neutral presentation. Just sit back and relax. If you dont like it, thats cool but stop posting on this topic. Your points have not been adressed by the poster at all, this should give you a sign. And on a last note, the Pathos and the Quads are a bad match especially from a impedance swing point and the current requirements of an electrostatic such as your old Quad.

-Flo

[theaudiohobby]

What you own and what you have listened to does not it in anyway diminish my opinion nor my experience of the Pathos, so you have the Pathos and you claim does a very good job on certain speakers, I said that if falls on in certain areas, if you disagree fine. But kindly refrain from making stupid comments like asking me to stop posting my opinion. I have logged enough time on the Pathos Classic MKII on both ESLs and dynamics speakers to be able to form a very good opinion of its sonic signature. As for making a positive contribution to my knowledge of audio, so far practically all of your comments at least in respect of my system have been ignorant nonsense, nice try though!

By the way, whether or not the poster responds to my post or not does not matter, he is obviously minded to buy it anyway and from all that I can read is probably only interested in simple validation of his original decision rather than any pointed comments about the Pathos, but that does not matter to me, someone who is genuinely interested in some balanced comments about the Pathos will come along and find my comments useful.

Your comments on the match btw the Quad and Pathos are wrong and ignorant ( probably wearing the RGA cap again?) , the Classic MKII is very good match for Quads ESL 57 and the Quad ESL 988. Your comments about impedance swings and current requirements are red herrings, it has enough current for the Quad and impedances curve of the ESL57 and the Quad 988 are relatively benign.

[Florian]

Your comments on the match btw the Quad and Pathos are wrong and ignorant ( probably wearing the RGA cap again?) , the Classic MKII is very good match for Quads ESL 57 and the Quad ESL 988. Your comments about impedance swings and current requirements are red herrings, it has enough current for the Quad and impedances curve of the ESL57 and the Quad 988 are relatively benign.
Wow, i shall ask you in the future about your knowledge. You obvisously have tons of experience with planar speakers and their needs. I am sorry i ever discredited your opinion.

To Mike: Dont buy the Pathos, its crap on the speakers Mr.Hobby has heard them on. Those old Quads sure are 100% correct and he knows whats best for them. Afterall he owns them.

[theaudiohobby]

Wow, i shall ask you in the future about your knowledge. You obvisously have tons of experience with planar speakers and their needs. I am sorry i ever discredited your opinion.

Wow! so you finally realized that listening to a myriad of speakers and amplifiers is not equivalent to knowing about their mechanical workings ;) ! So far I am yet to hear you make a single useful comment about the Quads on this board, in that respect your knowledge is as good as RGAs ;).

Have fun!

[Florian]

Funny how you can open your mouth and speak. How can you comment on the Pathos on the 1.6 Maggie? I have had that system for over a year in my room. Who cares about your small Quads? This is about the match with the 1.6, so whats your point?

[theaudiohobby]

Funny how you can open your mouth and speak. How can you comment on the Pathos on the 1.6 Maggie? I have had that system for over a year in my room. Who cares about your small Quads? This is about the match with the 1.6, so whats your point?

Easy, having listened to the Pathos on a numbers of speakers ESLs and dynamics, I think I can make fair assessment of their sound. Thanks for not caring for my small Quads, I own them not you :), your lack of care does not diminish my enjoyment in the slightest.

[Florian]

Regardless, this is about the 1.6 Maggie and not a ESL which is very different from a planar magnetic and you should know that. I didnt say that i didnt care for the Quads, i do like them on some music more then boxes. But the bottom line is that this is about the matching of the Pathos to the Maggies and you have no experience with that. End of story!

PS: I would much rather have the 100watt Silvaweld OTL's with Quads then any Pathos. The Pathos is not a good match with Quads. But once you get more experience you will understand.

[theaudiohobby]

Regardless, this is about the 1.6 Maggie and not a ESL which is very different from a planar magnetic and you should know that. I didnt say that i didnt care for the Quads, i do like them on some music more then boxes. But the bottom line is that this is about the matching of the Pathos to the Maggies and you have no experience with that. End of story!

Sour grapes, eh!


PS: I would much rather have the 100watt Silvaweld OTL's with Quads then any Pathos. The Pathos is not a good match with Quads. But once you get more experience you will understand.

:) You obviously have not been reading my posts, have you? I kept the amplifier that I felt was BETTER than the Pathos Classic MKII ;)! Thanks for bringing up the 100watt Silvaweld OTL, however at this point I am not interested nor am I likely to be.

[Florian]

Sounds like a financial problem, then it would surely catapult your old Quads into a new league for them. I am not sour, dont need to be since i have the equipment. I wouldnt buy the Pathos now either, but for the money it is not to be beat on Maggies as far as i know. And if you think your equipment does the little quads justice and that you have enough knowledge and experience to comment on the Maggies and their requirements then feel free. In the end, it doesnt matter.

[theaudiohobby]

I am not sour, dont need to be since i have the equipment. I wouldnt buy the Pathos now either, but for the money it is not to be beat on Maggies as far as i know...
FWIW, I like the Pathos Classic MKII, may still get one, all I said was that it has a sonic trait that the poster should be aware of.

Sounds like a financial problem, then it would surely catapult your old Quads into a new league for them..... And if you think your equipment does the little quads justice and that you have enough knowledge and experience to comment on the Maggies and their requirements then feel free. In the end, it doesnt matter.
Thanks! You need to learn when to keep quiet! I KNOW that my equipment does the Quad ESL 57 justice, that why I BOUGHT it in the first place.

[Florian]

.
FWIW, I like the Pathos Classic MKII, may still get one, all I said was that it has a sonic trait that the poster should be aware of.

Thanks! You need to learn when to keep quiet! I KNOW that my equipment does the Quad ESL 57 justice, that why I BOUGHT it in the first place.
I could not live with a subwoofer humming along a small Quad without anything then high powered OTL's with matched output transformers.

And on the sonic trait issue, i disagree.

[theaudiohobby]

I could not live with a subwoofer humming along a small Quad without anything then high powered OTL's with matched output transformers.

And on the sonic trait issue, i disagree.

I do not understand your comments, I would think OTLs and subwoofers are separate issues, Nevertheless, we already disagree a number of sonic issues, so it does not matter either way if we disagree on one more issue :) . By the way subwoofer does not hum it produces music, feel free to disagree ;) .

[Mike Anderson]

By the way, whether or not the poster responds to my post or not does not matter, he is obviously minded to buy it anyway and from all that I can read is probably only interested in simple validation of his original decision rather than any pointed comments about the Pathos, but that does not matter to me, someone who is genuinely interested in some balanced comments about the Pathos will come along and find my comments useful.

I read your comments, and I believe I already stated that I'm aware of the possible bass issue (which may or may not be a problem, and which can be solved with a subwoofer if it is). I'm not looking for validation, and I took into account what you've said.

If I seem more interestedin Florian's opinion, it's because I am interested in finding an amp that matches the 1.6QRs, not any other speakers, so I'm going to give more weight to someone who has a lot of experience with those.

The amp fits all the criteria I set out, and so far few others in its class do. So I got a used one at a decent price, should be here in a few days - if I don't like it, I can turn it around for the same price.

I have no way to audition one; it's the only choice I have if I want to hear the thing!

[theaudiohobby]

Mike, apologies if I misread your actions :o . Now that you have bought it, have fun listening ;) .

[Mike Anderson]

S'aright! :)

[Mike Anderson]

Once you reach the limit of the 1.6 (will take a while) will move over the 3.6 to the 20.1 which we run active. After that is completed will touch up on the Apogees in a fully active triamped operation with a few amps and a huge room. Its a long way but a fun way :D

Oh Lord...

You know, when I decided to trade the MMGs in for the 1.6QRs, I realized I was playing right into Magnepan's hands -- I swear, they sell the MMGs at a cheap price to get people hooked, they're like drug dealers.

You're just as bad!

Really, I'm not going to buy more expensive speakers and amps until I have a house that is at least 50% paid for - or else I'm going to end up with a divorce instead.

[Florian]

S'aright! :)
To Mr.Hobby: Your right, if you own small Quads and drive them with something i dont even consider musical and add a subwoofer to it then you and I have huge differences in perceived sound quality and we should just accept that.

To Mike: Gratulations on an exellent purchase. Give it a good warm up (at least 30 min) and let the 1.6 burn in. Will do room acoustics and Maggie placment next. Once you reach the limit of the 1.6 (will take a while) will move over the 3.6 to the 20.1 which we run active. After that is completed will touch up on the Apogees in a fully active triamped operation with a few amps and a huge room. Its a long way but a fun way :D

Just kidding, you will find the Pathos and 1.6 to be a extremely pleasing musical system. A system i could live with personally too fi i werent such a perfectionist.

-Flo

[theaudiohobby]

To Mr.Hobby: Your right, if you own small Quads and drive them with something i dont even consider musical and add a subwoofer to it then you and I have huge differences in perceived sound quality and we should just accept that.

Sigh....how unsurprising ;) , enjoy the ego trip ;) .

[GMichael]

Just a hook in a fish. Squirm a little. They like it when you fight back at first.

[Florian]

Sigh....how unsurprising ;) , enjoy the ego trip ;) .
I will, but gladly i will not be traveling alone. There is a whole herd out there with 20's, Apogee's, Acoustats, Soundlabs etc... that all feel the same way. More power to the people with real systems! And more power to people who understand that it takes more then a tiny E-Stat and a subwoofer!

Cheers

Flo

[Florian]

Oh Lord...

You know, when I decided to trade the MMGs in for the 1.6QRs, I realized I was playing right into Magnepan's hands -- I swear, they sell the MMGs at a cheap price to get people hooked, they're like drug dealers.

You're just as bad!

Really, I'm not going to buy more expensive speakers and amps until I have a house that is at least 50% paid for - or else I'm going to end up with a divorce instead.
I know i am just as bad, but dont worry the 1.6 kills the MMG in every single area and that more then once ;) The only reason they sell the MMG is to get people hooked, and it works!

[theaudiohobby]

... And more power to people who understand that it takes more then a tiny E-Stat and a subwoofer!

Cheers

Flo

to do what? let's hear it from the egomeister ;)

[Florian]

to do what? let's hear it from the egomeister ;)
To reach a level where a comment on a piece of equipment is actually valid. Your comment is like saying that my Klipsch Cornwalls work well with my Krell KRS200. LOL

[theaudiohobby]

To reach a level where a comment on a piece of equipment is actually valid. Your comment is like saying that my Klipsch Cornwalls work well with my Krell KRS200. LOL

So it takes owning 20's, Apogee's, Acoustats, Soundlabs etc... that all feel the same way to comment on how a Pathos Classic matches with Quads/ Maggie 1.6R, just shows how clueless you are ;) :cool: . You did not rise to the bait, yet managed to walk right into another, Enjoy the trip;), come back when you finally have a clue ;)

[Florian]

I will add you to the list of people i cant talk to. I dont see your points and you avoid the real point in every reply you write. Mike made the right decision and its great to see that at least someone is taking the right path. Mike will enjoy the system very much and besides that I have the Pathos and the equipment with which i can actually see the true nature of a amp. The Pathos is a great match for almost all speakers exept electrostatics like your Quads.

[Mike Anderson]

Mike made the right decision and its great to see that at least someone is taking the right path.

Alright, but if you start calling me "grasshopper" I'm gonna ditch the Maggies and buy the most expensive Bose speakers I can get my hands on!

[theaudiohobby]

....The Pathos is a great match for almost all speakers except electrostatics like your Quads.

Repeating the same thing the over and over does not make it any more valid than the first time you said it, You deserve a new a accolade, "Clueless in Bavaria". :D

It's been fun ribbing you ;) , enjoy the trip ;) !

[Florian]

I have to repeat myself a hundred times because you simple dont get it. And you still dont! Why dont you go to the Quad forum and ask what they think of the Pathos on the Quads? I can save you the time by advising you to read my posts again. ;)

In doesnt matter what you think, the story is done. My ride is almost over while your still sitting at the shore looking out for the boat. Enjoy your trip!

[theaudiohobby]

I have to repeat myself a hundred times because you simple dont get it. And you still dont! Why dont you go to the Quad forum and ask what they think of the Pathos on the Quads? I can save you the time by advising you to read my posts again. ;)

Can you <a href="http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=mug&n=68704&highlight=vinylly+pathos&r=&session=">top this</a>?
I've had VTL compact monoblock 100s, -great; VTL tiny triod monoblocks, -great. But even better, I like the new Pathos Classic One integrated. It's more refined and detailed. I'm not even thinking about new amps anymore and you don't have to spend money on a preamp or connecting cable, and they look sexy. This would be my top recommendation for an excellent Quad 57 driving amp.
Do I need to repeat why I refer to you as "Clueless in Bavaria" ;) ?

In does not matter what you think, the story is done. My ride is almost over while your still sitting at the shore looking out for the boat. Enjoy your trip!
Of course, it does not matter what I think, as for the trip thanks for the offer, I am not interested in an ego trip, it is more profitable for me to stay here and enjoy my rig. Please enjoy the rest of your trip as you come ashore.

[Florian]

My ego is quite smaller then yours. Your EGO is sooo big that you cannot accept the fact that i disagree with all your posts. You cannot accept the fact that a high current tube OTL amp would be far better then the Pathos on the little Quads. Come down to Switzerland and ill show you a triple stacked quad 57 running on pure OTL and youll see why your little quad + subwoofer combo with funny electronics gives you no credit on judging an amp.

[theaudiohobby]

From here (http://forums.audioreview.com/showpost.php?p=121827&postcount=18)


First only the MKII is worth getting and MKI is no longer being made and has not been for while > 2 years, so I am rather surprised that your dealer claims to have one in stock. The Classic has soft bass and in that area, the Logos may outperform it, however the Classic is lively and open sounding amplifier, whose limitations become readily apparent with bass-heavy music or speakers that demand grunt in the low-end, also will the treble and bass balance be to your taste, Florian likes it, will you? I will suggest you listen to the Pathos if you have the opportunity because as I wrote many moons ago (probably over two years ago), it sounds great but it was handily outperformed in certain areas by other amplifiers at the time.

to the conclusion (http://forums.audioreview.com/showpost.php?p=125012&postcount=1) of this little saga, which is now posted here for posterity.


Those of you who have been kind enough to indulge my quest for an integrated amp to power the 1.6qr's I have on order know I got the Pathos Acoustics Classic One MkII -- and while I absolutely the sound of the amp, I was a little dismayed about the lack of power and low end.

Well I just found a used Pathos Acoustics Logos for a ridiculously low price! It's somewhat out of my original $2k budget, but not by a huge amount. What a score!!

If this thing sounds as good as the Classic One but with more power, then I'm going to be VERY happy.

Should be here Friday, I'll let you know what I think.

[Mike Anderson]

^^^ In Florian's defense, I'm presently using the amp with the MMG's, not the 1.6qr's (which should be here next week).

The Classic One may well be plenty loud enough with the 1.6qr's, but I do like having the extra muscle of the Logos (I will want to move up to 3.6's or higher eventually), and I got a very good deal on it, so why not.

[jack201]

I owned 1.6QRs in the past. I also listen to a lot of electronica, house and progressive trance.

I would look for a second hand DK Design Integrated amp. A new one from LSA Group would set you back about 3 Grand MSRP, I have no idea what street prices are like over there in the U.S.

Pre-owned, It should fit right in your budget. The Pathos is gorgeous and will make the DK look rather...ummm...hulking but the DK will provide all the grunt you'll need while retaining the delicacy and finesse required for mind bending synth pad ambience. It also has balanced inputs so you won't need to use an adapter from your DAC1.

Like the Pathos it is a Hybrid design. As Florian stated don't worry. Tubes really do last a long time and are very easy to source provided you aren't hunting for decades old NOS rarities.