Has anyone compared MH MMF 2.1 vs. Pro-ject lll

[guitone]

They look similar, I believe they are built in the same plant, both of English design. Has anyone done a side by side or at least compared them before purchasing. Curious about your thoughts. I will be running them through an Arcam amp.

I think the cartridge on the Pro-ject is better but I am really not familiar with the one that comes on the Music Hall.

More research brings the Goldring into the equations....

So at the $350 or less price point what more do I need to consider, and of these three, if they are it, which is the best bet???? Is Goldring made in the UK?

Sorry for so many questions, learning fast, I hope

Thanks

Joel Stern

[guitone]

Guess I can't go wrong with any of these, just curious about thoughts on the best bang,they are all about the same price......

[JohnMichael]

They look similar, I believe they are built in the same plant, both of English design. Has anyone done a side by side or at least compared them before purchasing. Curious about your thoughts. I will be running them through an Arcam amp.

I think the cartridge on the Pro-ject is better but I am really not familiar with the one that comes on the Music Hall.

More research brings the Goldring into the equations....

So at the $350 or less price point what more do I need to consider, and of these three, if they are it, which is the best bet???? Is Goldring made in the UK?

Sorry for so many questions, learning fast, I hope

Thanks

Joel Stern

Sorry I have not replied before now but I would reccomend the Goldring table which is basically a Rega P2 table. It is the best tonearm of the three. The Music Hall 2.1 would be my next choice. I had a Thorens with that same arm and it did a good job. The Project looks like it has the lowest quality of tonearm of the three but I am not familiar with it. The Goldring is a well proven design and will last for many years. My Project built Thorens needed service twice in a few years. My Rega Planar 2 just keeps spinning and I have had the joy of modifying it for even better sound.

[guitone]

John, thanks...my understaning is that the previous Pro-ject, the 1.2 may have a much better arm than the current debut. The only thing I have heard negative on the Goldring is that the finish is less than outstanding...but I have not yet seen one in person.

Also, what about the particle board platter on the goldring, that seems a bit odd to me?

Thank you

Joel

[JohnMichael]

John, thanks...my understaning is that the previous Pro-ject, the 1.2 may have a much better arm than the current debut. The only thing I have heard negative on the Goldring is that the finish is less than outstanding...but I have not yet seen one in person.

Also, what about the particle board platter on the goldring, that seems a bit odd to me?

Thank you

Joel

I can not answer as to why Rega went with the particle board platter. My Planar 2 has the glass platter. I have seen all kinds of material used for platters and I can not imagine Rega choosing a material that would degrade sound. Some think the glass platters ring and degrade the sound so there are pros and cons for all materials. It might have been a cost reason to create a platter easy to manufacture to keep an entry table in production. I know the main bearing on the Regas are good and the tonearms are excellent. You should also check the reviews written by owners of the tables in the review section if you have not already. One of the most important factors in good turntable sound is having the cartridge mounted correctly. Also if the ttable comes with a cartridge pick the one that has an eliptical stylus for better high frequency reproduction.

[guitone]

John, thanks again.

Joel

[dean_martin]

John, thanks...my understaning is that the previous Pro-ject, the 1.2 may have a much better arm than the current debut. The only thing I have heard negative on the Goldring is that the finish is less than outstanding...but I have not yet seen one in person.

Also, what about the particle board platter on the goldring, that seems a bit odd to me?

Thank you

Joel

Hey, guitone - I have a Pro-Ject 1.2. When I got mine a few years ago it seemed to be a little better built and with a better tone arm than the Music Hall 2.1. Now, the 2.1 seems to be better built than Pro-ject's entry level table - the Debut III. I think if I were getting an entry-level table today I would have to consider other brands or move up the Pro-Ject and Music Hall lines to the Xpression1 or MMF-5 if funds would allow.

[guitone]

Dean, thanks...I have a line on a nice conditioned 1.2....maybe I will get that one if I can.




Hey, guitone - I have a Pro-Ject 1.2. When I got mine a few years ago it seemed to be a little better built and with a better tone arm than the Music Hall 2.1. Now, the 2.1 seems to be better built than Pro-ject's entry level table - the Debut III. I think if I were getting an entry-level table today I would have to consider other brands or move up the Pro-Ject and Music Hall lines to the Xpression1 or MMF-5 if funds would allow.

[Jimmy C]

Dean, thanks...I have a line on a nice conditioned 1.2....maybe I will get that one if I can.

...are you by any slim chance in N.Y.? A friend of mine has a VERY lightly used Pro-Ject 2.1 in MINT shape for $250 (norm $500). He bought a Scout, but that 'lil rig sounds pretty damn good. I don't think George wants to f with shipping (possible damage). He would rather a local deal. The only negative is the box was trashed in 2" of water in his basement... but the manual is OK, IIRC. The table is perfect.

I actually like the Pro-jects better (blasphemy!) than Regas, dollar for dollar. Granted, the arm ain't as sexy, and they don't have a cult-like following. I'm simply going by what I have heard. Also, it's very difficult to demo two brands at the same time for obvious reasons... not to mention different carts are probably involved. The only direct Pro-Rega comparo I did was a Perspective vs. the P25... I thought the Perspective (which I bought) sounded more believeable and natural. Again, diff carts were involved.

Any of these should get you on the road to enjoying vinyl (again?)...

[guitone]

My only claim to NY is as an ex ny'er. I live in New England now so not an option, but thank you.



...are you by any slim chance in N.Y.? A friend of mine has a VERY lightly used Pro-Ject 2.1 in MINT shape for $250 (norm $500). He bought a Scout, but that 'lil rig sounds pretty damn good. I don't think George wants to f with shipping (possible damage). He would rather a local deal. The only negative is the box was trashed in 2" of water in his basement... but the manual is OK, IIRC. The table is perfect.

I actually like the Pro-jects better (blasphemy!) than Regas, dollar for dollar. Granted, the arm ain't as sexy, and they don't have a cult-like following. I'm simply going by what I have heard. Also, it's very difficult to demo two brands at the same time for obvious reasons... not to mention different carts are probably involved. The only direct Pro-Rega comparo I did was a Perspective vs. the P25... I thought the Perspective (which I bought) sounded more believeable and natural. Again, diff carts were involved.

Any of these should get you on the road to enjoying vinyl (again?)...

[Sweet Spot]

...are you by any slim chance in N.Y.? A friend of mine has a VERY lightly used Pro-Ject 2.1 in MINT shape for $250 (norm $500). He bought a Scout, but that 'lil rig sounds pretty damn good. I don't think George wants to f with shipping (possible damage). He would rather a local deal. The only negative is the box was trashed in 2" of water in his basement... but the manual is OK, IIRC. The table is perfect.

I actually like the Pro-jects better (blasphemy!) than Regas, dollar for dollar. Granted, the arm ain't as sexy, and they don't have a cult-like following. I'm simply going by what I have heard. Also, it's very difficult to demo two brands at the same time for obvious reasons... not to mention different carts are probably involved. The only direct Pro-Rega comparo I did was a Perspective vs. the P25... I thought the Perspective (which I bought) sounded more believeable and natural. Again, diff carts were involved.

Any of these should get you on the road to enjoying vinyl (again?)...


Jimmy, I am also on the verge of buying a new TT, and live in N.Y. (Lower Manhattan). I was pretty much set on buying a MMF-5, but was still wondering if any of the lower priced TT's such as the 2.1 were comparable as far as fidelity is concerned ? I'm going to be buying a Outlaw Audio RR 2150 very soon, as well as a new CD player (NAD C 542 most likely) and want a nice TT to compliment the system as a whole.

I haven't really found many helpful forums, of which people actually compared TT's and had honest opinions, rather than flat out bias due to product devotion. I wouldn't be opposed to buying a used TT (such as your friend's) so long as it was in good shape, and as long as I couldn't get something MUCH better for just a bit more $$ (a bit meaning say, $200-$300).

What are your thoughts on this ?

Doug

[Jimmy C]

Jimmy, I am also on the verge of buying a new TT, and live in N.Y. (Lower Manhattan). I was pretty much set on buying a MMF-5, but was still wondering if any of the lower priced TT's such as the 2.1 were comparable as far as fidelity is concerned ? I'm going to be buying a Outlaw Audio RR 2150 very soon, as well as a new CD player (NAD C 542 most likely) and want a nice TT to compliment the system as a whole.

I haven't really found many helpful forums, of which people actually compared TT's and had honest opinions, rather than flat out bias due to product devotion. I wouldn't be opposed to buying a used TT (such as your friend's) so long as it was in good shape, and as long as I couldn't get something MUCH better for just a bit more $$ (a bit meaning say, $200-$300).

What are your thoughts on this ?

Doug

...Pro-Ject and Music Hall are built in the same Czech (sp?) factory, some of their tables are very similar. The 1.2 is pretty much the MMF2, while the MMF5 is very close to a 2.1. I don't know what are the exact differences are, but they're close.

George ran that table (as well as his new Scout) through either Dynaco tubes (or a monster Rotel), Rotel Pre, into Paradigm Monitor 11s. The table sounded very good - quiet, with nice black background. I doubt any other rig for $300ish will "destroy" it, but they certainly may be different.

Just in case I left any gray area... no, the table was not in the box at the time of mini flood...lol. It was in the livingroom (upstairs), in service. It's in mint condition, a few years old.

He recently moved, and I don't think his computer is running yet - if you're interested, e me (newboy321@aol.com) and I'll let him know. I'm sure an arrangement can be made for pick-up.

Now he has $1500 rig, and about 30 LPs... zeeesch. Ass backwards, eh?

P.S. If you ever talk to him, don't tell 'em I said that :^)

[Sweet Spot]

Jimmy, I take it that you are confusing the Pro-Ject 1.2 and the Music Hall MMF-2.1, correct ? The Music Hall is $314 at The needle doctor, and the Pro-Ject is a bit more at Saturdayaudio, I think about $369. Right now, I'm of course all confused about which TT's I should try and persue. The contenders are:

MMF 2.1
MMF 5
ProJect 1.2
Pro-Ject 1 Xpression
Pro-Ject Debut lll
NAD 533
Thorens TD-190

Ti's what I can think of for the moment.

[Jimmy C]

Jimmy, I take it that you are confusing the Pro-Ject 1.2 and the Music Hall MMF-2.1, correct ? The Music Hall is $314 at The needle doctor, and the Pro-Ject is a bit more at Saturdayaudio, I think about $369. Right now, I'm of course all confused about which TT's I should try and persue. The contenders are:

MMF 2.1
MMF 5
ProJect 1.2
Pro-Ject 1 Xpression
Pro-Ject Debut lll
NAD 533
Thorens TD-190

Ti's what I can think of for the moment.

... the Pro-Jects run a bit more than the comparable Music Hall, and I'm not sure of the exact diffs.

I would imagine any of the mentioned tables would satisfy your vinyl cravings, although I haven't heard the Thorens or the Xpression. You might want to seek out Sota's entry-level table (Moonbeam, IIRC) as well.

Let us know what you end up with!

Hopefully, you have a decent used LP shop in your area...

[Sweet Spot]

This is such a frustrating thing to try and do... Decisions like this are going to drive me mad !
There are so many variables which are in play:

Best sounding TT with original cartridge
Best sounding TT with a bit of an cartridge upgrade (which doesn't cost much more)
Combined best sound and easiest to use
Manual Vs. Auto (at least an auto stop)
Best overall bang for buck

I guess what I'd ultimately like to have is, a TT which of course doesn't break the bank, offers good build quality and the ability to upgrade so it's useful for more than just a couple years, and sounds really great straight out the box, with the stock equipment. Now, to be honest, I don't know jack about TT's, or how to set them up (not saying I haven't any technical prowess, I'm not a slacker), or maintain them, but I'm very much willing to put the time in, so that this all changes.

I'd not like to find out though, once I become a more experienced and knowledgable TT user, that I should not have wasted my $$, but should have instead, have spent a bit more cash in order to be up to snuff with the rest of my stuff. Then again, who can really say such things ahead of time eh ? Dilemmas. Hate em'.

So out of these tables, I already know that the MMF 5 is a manual. Is there any particular reason as to why a manual might be better than an automatic ? More parts/more noise perhaps ? Should that be the case, I can live with a manual one. Also, can anyone see why getting the MMF-5 over any of the other ones is advisable, or would it be the other way around ? The time is coming VERY near for me to buy. The money is in the bank, and ready to be spent. It's bugging me to spend it actually !

Next two dilemmas:

Speaker cables and

CD Player.

Doug