Is my Denon2200 now "OPPO"solete? [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

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PDK
12-21-2005, 08:42 AM
I've got a Denon DVD2200 (SACD/DVDA) player that I bought for its reputation of very good video and audio performance. I think it is a great player and have no complaints- to me audio is as important as picture. I find it to be more dynamic than the cheap Sony changer it replaced and find the video to be superior as well.

However, I've seen the great benchmark performance of the inexpensive OPPO player and have been quite curious. However, I've seen nothing on audio performance. My current TV (Toshiba 32HDF82- or something like that) doesn't have a DVI. I am now contemplating buying a new 42 inch Dell plasma and am wondering if my DVD2200 will go from being a pretty decent player to the "weak link". I have to believe that it's audio performance would be superior to the OPPO, but will I be losing a lot in video by not having the DVI and the OPPO's strong test scores?

I'm not opposed to buying another player (I have a Philips DVP642 that I use exclusively for watching downloaded mpg video of a daily British TV show where convenience trumps quality) but have a hard time giving up on the Denon. I mean, LOTR should not only look impressive but sound impressive as well. Any thoughts?

Toshiba 32HDF82
Denon AVR1905
Denon DVD2200
Philips DVP642
Monster Power HTS3500mk2
Paradigm CC300
Paradigm Monitor 5
Paradigm MiniMonitors / ADP 350 (these are on stands- I can't decide which I like better)
Paradigm AMS250
Paradigm PS1200

edtyct
12-21-2005, 09:40 AM
On the video aspect, I wrote a pretty detailed post about the differences between digital and analog connections in this thread: Which provides better image quality YPbPr or DVI? (http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=15131) Some people regard DVI as HDMI's weak sister in digital video. From a broad perspective, that position has some truth to it, but the mitigating circumstances at this stage of the game are numerous, as I hope that my earlier post shows. On the grounds of video alone, the Oppo's DVI performance might be slightly better than the Denon's component performance with the Dell, but it would be hard to tell without testing. Even if you were able to notice the difference, whether the degree improvement was worth the trouble of buying another player is an open question. Furthermore, despite the Oppo's stellar test results, a lot of its strengths would not necessarily be evident to the naked eye. Although people can train themselves to see certain flaws in film and video processing, as well as the deleterious effects of poor mpeg decoding, a lot of these glitches go right by the next guy without calling any attention to themselves; the same can be said about the absence of such flaws. But if you've got money to burn, and the urge to buy something exciting, why not go for it? You'll have the satisfaction of getting a player that does just about everything well.

As for audio, apparently the Oppo now includes DVD-A, but the loss of SACD, to my mind, would be critical.

Ed

westcott
12-21-2005, 11:01 AM
My two concerns with the Oppo is that it is only DVI, limiting its video capabilities and second, the component output is only 480i and not progressive.

If I were to upgrade either my display or player, it would have to have HDMI for mamixum picture quality and long term integration.

I think one of the Panasonic 97 or 77 should work better for you if you want HDMI. SACD and DVD Audio support is another ball of wax.

You will have to audition the equipment yourself to determine if the audio quality is up to your standards. I think you money would be better spent getting a dedicated SACD\DVD audio player. Your existing Denon should suit you well for some time to come, even with component outputs.

I like the Denons and if it were less expensive, I would buy the 3910. But, with HD players on the horizion, I am going to wait.

PDK
12-21-2005, 01:26 PM
[QUOTE=westcott]. I think you money would be better spent getting a dedicated SACD\DVD audio player. Your existing Denon should suit you well for some time to come, even with component outputs.
QUOTE]

This is somewhat comforting. I've been a daily lurker for quite a while and the recent spate of DVD player threads and Ed's component v. digital discussion got me wondering how much I'd really be missing. My hope was that the Denon might give it an edge in the soundtrack department.

Curious about the dedicated SACD/DVDA player. Do you see this format as a going concern? I read in the latest S&V that there had been more vinyl sold last year than these two formats together so I thought these formats were pretty much on their last legs and I hadn't thought too much about them. The only place to buy them locally is BestBuy and they only have about a dozen titles. It seems that Sony is releasing some dual-discs that are a bonus for me. Despite owning literally thousands of CDs, I only have a handful of SACD/DVDAs. I've read of posters recommending Alison Kraus and Bucky Pizzareti and would like to give them a try. Can you recommend a source online for SACDs/DVDAs?

westcott
12-21-2005, 02:30 PM
[QUOTE=westcott]. I think you money would be better spent getting a dedicated SACD\DVD audio player. Your existing Denon should suit you well for some time to come, even with component outputs.
QUOTE]

This is somewhat comforting. I've been a daily lurker for quite a while and the recent spate of DVD player threads and Ed's component v. digital discussion got me wondering how much I'd really be missing. My hope was that the Denon might give it an edge in the soundtrack department.

Curious about the dedicated SACD/DVDA player. Do you see this format as a going concern? Can you recommend a source online for SACDs/DVDAs?

I wish I could paint you a pretty picture of the future of SACD and DVD Audio, but with a great deal of people seemingly happy with MP3 quality music and the competition between formats, other technologies are overtaking what little advantage they had to begin with.

On the other hand, after upgrading my equipment recently, I really have noticed a great deal of fluctuation in the quality of CD's I presently own. Old AAD copies can be okay but some can be sound really bad. I am one to buy components on a very infrequent basis and tend to keep things for a while. I really want a good transport that will last me, but I would hate to invest and only have to switch to some HD Audio format when HD Video players hit in the spring 2006. The movie industry horse seems to be the one pulling the audio industry cart, for now.

I really like the 3910, and if it were half of its price, I would buy it. Otherwise, I will take that money and roll it into an HD player, whatever that may be.

edtyct
12-21-2005, 03:00 PM
The only way to guarantee SACD being anything more than a cult product is for people to buy the disks, though I realize that the problem goes well beyond anything that we can do. But still . . . As for where to buy SACDs, if you want to pay top prices for the best selection at a high end emporium online, Acoustic Sounds online is the place. Otherwise discount sources like Half.com, Overstock, and ebay might do the trick. It's certainly an MP3 world, but portability, convenience, and low price aren't everything. God bless the hi def formats. With the right disk, in the right frame of mind, you can literally be transported. Multichannel's the ticket for me (unless the mixing and panning stray too far from anything in nature).

I'm with Westcott. If you have a DVD player that doesn't cause you any harm, and you're wondering whether you're missing anything by not getting a new, well-rated one with a digital output, you can probably afford, in every sense of the term, to wait for a new format, with its likely mandatory digital interface, to take hold. I realize that this can be a tall order, given that the cost of making a substantive switch is at an all-time low, and swapping equipment, even if largely a parallel move, is a gas. If it's further consolation, however, those who ask a question like yours are usually the level-headed ones who don't need to buy something new merely on speculation. The other kind of enthusiast has already gone out and bought it, in the time that it takes you to formulate the question, whether it turns out to be the best thing since sliced bread or not.

Ed

PDK
12-21-2005, 03:38 PM
... swapping equipment, even if largely a parallel move, is a gas. If it's further consolation, however, those who ask a question like yours are usually the level-headed ones who don't need to buy something new merely on speculation. The other kind of enthusiast has already gone out and bought it, in the time that it takes you to formulate the question, whether it turns out to be the best thing since sliced bread or not.

Ed
Well, I don't know if my wife would agree with the level-headed description... You are right about prices and the fun to be had in swapping out equipment. I think I'm slowly creeping up the better equipment ladder but haven't done a great job fighting the bug to "upgrade" even if it is an incremental move. Aside from the possible addition of a larger (Dell plasma) TV, I'd like to think I'm good for a few years. I bought my first round of gear three years ago but over the past year, the DVD2200 replaced a cheap non-progressive scan Sony changer and got me into SACD/DVDA (even though I haven't found much for music). The 1905 replaced a 1603 because I wanted 7.1 (turned out to be not a big deal), more xover points, and a full set of pre-outs (which, of course, will enable me to add separate amps [a vague plan I have, for what benefit I haven't been able to yet rationalize]), the Monitor 5s displaced the Mini Mons (more full sounding), and the MonsterPower because, well, um, it was a definite upgrade over my surge protector/power strip (maybe because it has the VU-style meter on the front of it). I will check out several online sources for DVDAs.
As far as mp3s. Much of my day is spent listening to them but as a "low-volume smooth out co-workers distraction type" mode. I usually rip at 320kbps but hear a noticeable difference between the CD and the mp3 when played at home... Convenience can be very annoying!

Woochifer
12-21-2005, 03:41 PM
If you're happy with what you got, then BE HAPPY! It's just an inevitable part of the whole consumer electronics market -- something more fully featured will come out that not only outperforms what you own but costs less as well. But, if you already own a piece of hardware that does exactly what you want, then it makes no sense to obsess over a newer product.

IMO, upgrades make sense only when they offer up a clear cut improvement in the performance and/or feature set over what you present own. AND the improvement has to be relevant to your viewing habits and your system. For example, if you own a HDTV with only analog component video connections, then the Oppo won't do one ounce of good for you because it only upscales the video output through the DVI connections. Also, as others have pointed out, if you want to play your SACDs, then it also makes no sense to go with the Oppo.

And as we speak, the HDMI standards are rapidly evolving. The current 1.1 version carries both video and audio signals (including DVD-A), while 1.2 will add 1-bit audio (i.e. SACD) and 1.3 will add the new high res versions of DD and DTS. The current Oppo player doesn't even have HDMI, yet the player has been out in the U.S. for nearly a year. What makes you think that Oppo's going to stand still while the rest of the market inches ahead? What if you buy the Oppo and then two months later, a NEW Oppo player with HDMI 1.1 comes out? Will it be time to upgrade yet again at that point?

You already own a good DVD player and you're happy with it. Why spoil a good thing?

bobsticks
12-21-2005, 05:45 PM
In my area, we just had a Fry's Electronics open up. My first trip a few weeks after their Grand Opening was supposed to be a "non-spending recon" but quickly turned into a two hundred dollar outing. They had twenty eight feet of SACD/DVD-A!! If you have one in the area, check it out. ;)
Don't expect too much from the av hardware options. Nothing greater than the usual suspects.