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conejo230
12-03-2005, 06:34 AM
hi folks, I'm new to this site but it’s just want I'm looking for. My wife and I have had a 5.1 home theater system for a few years now:

Marantz SR 5200 Receiver

Pioneer Elite DV-45A DVD/SACD player

Cambridge SoundWorks MC200/MC300 5.1 speaker system


and we really enjoy it. We use it probably 90% for TV/movies and 10% for music. I’d like to upgrade the system and would like to know the best way to approach this. It kind of started when my wife was at the local Bose factory outlet store and heard a demo where she really felt a plane move from the center front to the center back behind her and she was blown away. She thinks it’s because of Bose, I'm guessing it was a 6.1 system. Given that I'm not a big Bose fan, I have a few questions:

1. What is the weak link in my system? I’m assuming it’s the speakers.

2. Any thoughts on 5.1 vs. 6.1?

3. Recommendations for upgrades?

I read the 5.1 speaker comparison and the Aperion’s sounded pretty good. The Mordaunt Shorts rated highest but they look like a pain in the ass to get. Would it make sense to get upgraded speakers with my current receiver (it does handle 6.1)?

I also have a Monster HTS 3600 Power Conditioner box, our TV is a 55” Mitsubishi HD and we have digital HD cable from Time Warner. Our listening environment is a family room that is about 14’ wide, 20’ deep, 10’ high and opens up into a kitchen, so walls on only 3 sides.

Budget is no more than $2000 on everything, but less is better than more. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I appreciate you folks sharing your expertise.

kexodusc
12-03-2005, 06:55 AM
Well, you've got a few options here. You already have a DTS capable receiver (I'm pretty sure) so a receiver upgrade would only be for the purposes of 6.1/7.1, and possibly some video connections. If you're seat is against or very near a backwall, I wouldn't bother here. If you do want a receiver, you can get quite a bit for $350-$600.

Speakers and subwoofer are where the biggest improvements come. $1400-$2000 will buy a lot. Are you looking to keep things small and compact, or could you make the jump to larger bookshelf/stoundmount or even floorstanding speakers?

conejo230
12-03-2005, 07:09 AM
yes, it’s a DTS-capable receiver and 6.1 capable, but you addressed one of my concerns. Our main listening seating is against the back wall so a rear center speaker would be inches from our heads, which I can’t imagine is a good thing.

Re speaker size, our current ones are medium bookshelf size on speaker stands. I think my wife would prefer bookshelf, with smaller better than bigger but if it looks nice I don’t think she’d be opposed to floorstanding towers.

bobhaze
12-05-2005, 01:46 PM
yes, it’s a DTS-capable receiver and 6.1 capable, but you addressed one of my concerns. Our main listening seating is against the back wall so a rear center speaker would be inches from our heads, which I can’t imagine is a good thing.

Re speaker size, our current ones are medium bookshelf size on speaker stands. I think my wife would prefer bookshelf, with smaller better than bigger but if it looks nice I don’t think she’d be opposed to floorstanding towers.

IMHO you've already got equipment that is probably intrinsically better than what your wife heard in the Bose demo. Bose has always been superb in setting up impressive demos with just right material and a scripted, controlled demo that makes their stuff sound better than it usually does when you get it home.
The MC300s are a pretty good speaker, and were even a close contender for the top slot in Stereophile's Guide to HT for top ranking within their category the year they were introduced. They're well reviewed both in the press and on this site. The MC200's are most likely not too far off. A close friend has a properly set up system with three MC300's across the front stage, and S300 surrounds. It will hold its own with a lot of the better known brands, and puts some of them to shame. However, it sounded pretty mediocre until we spent a Saturday tweaking and rearranging to fix all the bad things happening elsewhere that were a result of his original layout and receiver calibration. Upgrading his woofer to the P200 from the BassCube 10 also made a big improvement.
This makes me think you may get more from looking at changes you might be able to make in your setup than in making wholesale changes in your equipment. It would be a bummer to spend two grand and not make a justifiable improvement. One thing that may be hurting your overall performance is the back against the wall syndrome. It is next to impossible to get that immersive soundfield unless you can give the surround speakers some room to do their job. From your description it sounds like this is exactly what your wife heard in the Bose demo. Current recording practice typically assumes the surround speakers are at a 110 degree angle to the centerline, and slightly above you. If you're right up against the wall at most you'll get slightly less than 90 degrees, placing the surrounds acoustically in front of you. This will result on a soundfield more like a horseshoe than a circle. The other problem is that the rear wall reflection hits your ear so close to the sound from the front speakers that it will severely color your perception of the sound from the front speakers. You get the sound from the front and its reflection off the wall almost immediately so your brain combines them and interprets this as the way the front speakers sound. Of course the reflection is colored by the characteristics of the wall, which can't be helping. Before you spend your money, take some time and see if you are really getting the best you can get from what you have.

conejo230
12-05-2005, 02:26 PM
Bob....thanks for a great post. Honestly, we were pleasantly surprised when we setup our system. I think we got a lot of bang for our buck. A few questions:

first, is there somewhere that has a guide on how to optimize one’s setup for their listening environment? I’m not really sure what to do on that count.

Re the surround component, that makes sense. If I were able to pull the couch out even just 18”, given that the surround speakers are only about 12-14’ apart, would that increase the available soundstage? I don’t have much room to work with here, but I have a little.

We watched LOTR Twin Towers the other night and wow, it just rocked. Very impressive. And on the first LOTR when they’re walking through the field where the bees are buzzing, you could almost follow the bees around the room, so I think the raw material is there. I agree that fine tuning should help.

bobhaze
12-07-2005, 10:40 AM
...first, is there somewhere that has a guide on how to optimize one’s setup for their listening environment? I’m not really sure what to do on that count.

Re the surround component, that makes sense. If I were able to pull the couch out even just 18”, given that the surround speakers are only about 12-14’ apart, would that increase the available soundstage? I don’t have much room to work with here, but I have a little...



There are a number of resources out there for setup in both print and DVD. I tend to like the DVD's because they are able to go through everything step by step in an easy to follow script. One of the simplest of these without compromising results is the Sound and Vision Home Theater Tune Up DVD http://shop.soundandvisionmag.com/
It covers all the basics and gives you interactive tests for setting up levels and delays. Also, the THX optimizer section that appears on later THX DVD's is useful for the receiver adjustments.

THere is also a section on speaker placement on the Dolby Labs web site: http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout.html

Moving the sofa out will help, even if its not too much. The most important thing is to try and get the surround speakers a little bit behind you to get reasonable rear effects.