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agtpunx40
12-02-2005, 01:32 PM
So I've been thinking about this recently. I have a Toshiba 51H84, it was about $1200. I have my tv set up with my avia disk, and I know that there are things that an ISF certified technician can do to improve the picture, things that I can't do. For example, I know my greyscale is a little off. Anyway, is $300+ worth it for a $1200 TV? Also, would the adjustments be relatively permanent? If I were to move in a year, would the improvements still be there when I set the tv up again? Who's done it, what's the word. Thanks for any info

edtyct
12-02-2005, 03:17 PM
Whether the $300 is worth it depends on how badly you want it, and how far your TV is from accurate color and gray scale. The calibration should hold up for a good long while. You can always record the main user parameters on the AVIA disk after the calibration and check them periodically to make sure that they haven't strayed. If you move your CRT, you will almost certainly have to do a convergence again. If the TV allows you to use a large number of points, you can probably get it back close to where it was.

Smokey
12-03-2005, 08:14 AM
Whether the $300 is worth it depends on how badly you want it, and how far your TV is from accurate color and gray scale.

That is very good point. Not all TVs will benifit from ISF calibration. If TV's gray scale and convergence is pretty much on the money right out of box, ISF might not achieve great results.

edtyct
12-03-2005, 12:25 PM
You might try the Spy TV DIY calibration kit, which I described in another thread. I've heard good things about it. It won't go as deep as an ISF calibration, but it stands to optimize the user parameters in a way that your eyes may have to strain to achieve, or not be able to achieve at all, with AVIA or DVE. It's not cheap at $265 list, but it's available for about $50 less if you look. I'm going to get my hands on one before the year is out. I'll be happy to post my results here if people are interested.

bfalls
12-04-2005, 06:54 AM
Where did you get your $300 estimate. Unless your get the entire set calibrated (all inputs) you could probably have your set calibrated much cheaper. From what I understand, each input can be calibrated for $125 or less. If you're concerned with only having your DVD, or broadcast inputs calibrated you can.

The advantage of an ISF calibration over doing an Avia calibration is primarily making certain white is set to D65. If white is wrong everything is wrong. Also, an ISF calibrator can provide a one button default solution allowing you to adjust to less than perfect movie transfers then back to calibrated when finished. ISF calibration involves going into the service menu to adjust the white and also adjust Service Menu controls so the user controls are set at default when in proper calibration. Since calibration is done with a test pattern generator it removes differences in DVD players and other sources and makes your display part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

Avia calibration uses the DVD player and propogates any less than perfect parameters to the display. Using a test disc provides reasonable calibration for only that input using only that source. If you calibrate each input using the DVD player and its cabling you're introducing its specific personality to each input. With the many user controls available on DVD players today ensuring your DVD player is a perfect source for calibration can be difficult. Bottom line, if making your set a perfect reproducer of the source is what you want, spend the $300. If Avia/Video Essentials calibration looks OK to you, you're money ahead.

edtyct
12-04-2005, 07:48 AM
bfalls,

I don't know where you got your pricing information, unless it's what you charge. Cost does vary, but a representative breakdown would be about $300 for a single scan rate/source on a digital rear-projection TV. The prices might be a little higher for front projection and plasma. Each additional scan rate/source might add $50 to $100. Not every ISF technician will necessarily break down cost the same way, but a package deal for all inputs, convergence, focus, etc., as well as gray scale and color correction, might run as high as $500. It isn't cheap, and it can take a while. If individual ISF calibrators are making better deals, then more power to them, and to their customers.

Ed

lomarica
12-04-2005, 10:01 AM
I would ask yourself is anything wrong with the picture in your set first. I had my 60" marantz set calibrated after I came home late one night, and had accidently left the tv set on, there was no source but the tv was glowing a dark red. after calibration with the set on and no source the tv was nice and black as it should be. so I had an obivous problem that I could see that needed to be fixed

If you are satisfied with the picture, things can alway be better but if you are satisfied and you have gone thru the basic calibration yourself then I would save your money.

agtpunx40
12-04-2005, 12:49 PM
I had the ame red problem previously, and I fixed it by going into the service menu and making some adjustments to the red cut. It wasn't necessary for me to pay to get that fixed, but I think that the fix is just a bandaid to make the incorrect white settings less noticible. After re-calibrating with Avia, I no longer have the red issue, and the picture is fine other than the fact that the resolution of dark images isn't quite as good as it was before. I'm told that this is because the original problem probably had to do with red and white levels, so I was masking the problem more than fixing it, and this effected the dark image resolution (I knew this before I did it). It's not really bad or anything, but I guess I know it will be fixed if I pay for it, I'm just not sure that it's worth it. I know no one can give me a good answer for that one, since you can't see the exact degree of the problem, I just wanted to hear what you guys thought about it overall. Thanks for the info.

Edtyct, I couldn't find any info on the calibration kit you were talking about. Do you have a link?

edtyct
12-04-2005, 01:53 PM
Here's the company's basic literature: http://www.colorvision.com/downloads/broch_spydertv.pdf

A bunch of places have begun to sell it, including Widescreen Review, Tiger Direct, et al.

bfalls
12-04-2005, 04:55 PM
bfalls,

I don't know where you got your pricing information, unless it's what you charge. Cost does vary, but a representative breakdown would be about $300 for a single scan rate/source on a digital rear-projection TV. The prices might be a little higher for front projection and plasma. Each additional scan rate/source might add $50 to $100. Not every ISF technician will necessarily break down cost the same way, but a package deal for all inputs, convergence, focus, etc., as well as gray scale and color correction, might run as high as $500. It isn't cheap, and it can take a while. If individual ISF calibrators are making better deals, then more power to them, and to their customers.

Ed

I took the ISF calibration class in Indianapolis prior to CEDIA 2 years ago. I'm currently a Network Administrator, but plan to slowly develop a side business providing audio/video calibrations. I've been an audio/video enthusiast for over 30 years. The pricing I mentioned was suggested during the class, but I've spoke to several ISF calibrators who provide a variety of services ranging from standard user control, single input calibrations (including temperature calibration, convergence and focus) to full calibrations including multiple formats (1080I, 720P, 480P, etc) on multiple inputs. On the latter it's possible a calibrator could charge an hourly rate since the number of inputs could vary as well as the set's convergence method/utilities. Sometimes a little user education is necessary since at first glance a calibrated picture can look a bit dull and soft when the "torch-mode" high-brightness, high-contract, high-sharpness is brought within specs. The user has to be educated and shown how these controls can actually cause edge distortion, blooming and loss of several gray-scale levels. If you can find a calibrator who is really into his craft and enjoys taking the time to explain the process and benefits you'll be well rewarded and find true value.