Bose vs. Onkyo

[mtymightymike]

We recently bought a new plasma TV for our TV room and were looking to get a good audio system to go along with it. What I am currently looking at is the Bose Lifestlye 28 and the Onkyo HT-S780. Now I know that Bose is one of the best when it comes to home theater audio, but the only think scaring me away is the price. I have heard a lot about Onkyo recievers and it has only been good. Basically my question is that is it worth it to shell out that much money for a Bose or buy the Onkyo for a cheaper price and get better componet speakers. Thanks.


Here are links:

Onkyo-S780 http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S780&class=Systems&p=i

Bose http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_PRODUCT_PAGE_EVENT&product=ls28_dvd_index

[GMichael]

Hi, welcome to AR,

The Bose is good if you like to spend money and need to have tini speakers. But there are many systems you could put together for less that would sound better. Onkyo is just one.

What kind of budget are you trying to work with?
What will you need? (DVD player? Recorder? 5.1, 6.1, 7.1?)
Will you only be using it for home theater or music too? How much of each %?)
Do you have room for larger speakers?

[L.J.]

but the only think scaring me away is the price.]

And it should scare you. $2299 is waaaaay to much for basically a HTIB. You should take Bose out, keep Onkyo in and add Denon, Yamaha, HK and Marantz to the line up. Add some good speakers and you should be OK. How much of a budget you working with?

[mtymightymike]

1)The budget would probably be between 1,000-1,500
2) We have a DVD player, so basically all we need is a reciever and speakers. Looking at 7.1
3) Mostly movies, so it would be 85% movies 15% music
4) Not huge floor standing speakers, would learn towards shelf speakers though.

[GMichael]

Poke around in here to get a few ideas. Just as a starting point. Don't buy anything until you've had a chance to hear them.

http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-bin/category/HomeAudio

http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-bin/item/MARSR7400KEFPACK

[GMichael]

Then maybe you can save a little cash and go with something like these:

http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-bin/item/KEFKHT1005BLK

and this:

http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-bin/item/MARSR4500

They are many other systems available that are just as good or better. Try not to be in a rush (I know this is the hard part) but take your time. Go out and hear as many as you can before you make a purchase that will be with you for years. You want it to make you smile each time you turn it on, not upset you because you found something you like better, for less, a few weeks later.

[mtymightymike]

I wish there was a place around my area that specializes in Home Theater Audio. That would be the only place I could probably hear some of these high end systems.

[GMichael]

I wish there was a place around my area that specializes in Home Theater Audio. That would be the only place I could probably hear some of these high end systems.

Where is your area? Someone here may know of a place you could go.

[markw]

Now I know that Bose is one of the best when it comes to home theater audio, ...No offense, but why do you say this? I'm just curious as to how and where these ideas originate.

[mtymightymike]

In terms of the whole package I guess and the simpliness of it all. We have a factory direct outlet store of Bose and went there to see choices. They brought us in a theater and showcased their systems. I have decent knowledge when it comes to home audio, but nothing spectactular.

[GMichael]

No offense, but why do you say this? I'm just curious as to how and where these ideas originate.

Almost everwhere other than the real audio world calls Bose the best. Last year I went to Disney Land. While we were at Epcott I noticed a home theater exibit. It was billed as "the ultimate home theater experience." Guess what was inside. Bose! Bose cubes and Bose subs. They carefully explained to us how the tini cubes handle the highs and the sub (which can be hid behind things) would handle the lows. Took me a month to convince my wife that Bose was NOT the best.

[L.J.]

I wish there was a place around my area that specializes in Home Theater Audio. That would be the only place I could probably hear some of these high end systems.

Best buy carries Yamaha products and Circuit City carries Onkyo and HK. Your local Best Buy may have a Magnolia Hifi which carries Denon, Marantz and Pioneer Elite. This is where I purchased my Denon products.

[GMichael]

Best buy carries Yamaha products and Circuit City carries Onkyo and HK. Your local Best Buy may have a Magnolia Hifi which carries Denon, Marantz and Pioneer Elite. This is where I purchased my Denon products.

You left out Martin Logan. I almost fainted when I saw them.

[markw]

In terms of the whole package I guess and the simpliness of it all. We have a factory direct outlet store of Bose and went there to see choices. They brought us in a theater and showcased their systems. I have decent knowledge when it comes to home audio, but nothing spectactular.These Bose stores are created specifically to show off Bose HT at it's best. Ideal conditions for their systems, ideal placement of those tiny speakers (stand right here now) , ideal source material which is selected specificallty show off their good points and sweep their failings under the rug.

and, most important of all, nothing to compare it against. ;)

I will say, however, that their human engineering is second to none. I love that remote that comes with their most expensive HT. Now, if only Denon would take a gander.

Seriously, it's the styling, human engineering, ease of setup and operation, size and mystique* you pay for with Bose. Nort the sound.

*NOT that blue thing in the X-Men movies. If It was, I'd have several Bose systems myself

[Resident Loser]

...you will find that your better choice will be Onkyo, here's why:

Bose is a closed-end system, you may be able to connect some auxl devices to it, but Bose, for the most part, uses proprietary connectors, ostensibly for simplified, fool-proof set-up...You MUST use the system "as is", the controller is virtually useless without the bass module which also contains the power amps that drive the speakers, which themselves can't be used alone without the potential for catastrophic failure if connected to conventional components. There is no room for real expansion and each component is useless without the others designed for that interconnection. It's a package deal.

On the flip-side, set-up is relatively simple and the WAF is usually high as they certainly are "decorator-friendly" But it comes at a cost as you are very well aware. Plus (FWIW) there is the cache' of owning Bose...

With the Onkyo (or nearly every other HTIB) industry standard RCA-type connectors and raw speaker wire, etc. etc. etc. expansion is a reality...different speakers, DVD players et al...of course if that's not in the long term plan, the point is moot. It would seem from your post that you are already considering an upgrade.

You will have to weigh the various options or even consider going beyond HTIB, in which case the choices are nearly limitless, dictated to only by your level of involvement and wallet...WAF is not high which can be a problem!

jimHJJ(...just some thoughts...oh, I see the lunchtime crowd is in...)

[HAVIC]

check this review about bose very intersting

http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html

[N. Abstentia]

I just wanna puke whenever I hear that somebody thinks Bose is good. I just don't understand it.

[Defshep]

Best Buy advertised a decent 7.1 Denon package for around $700.

[Eric Z]

As you have seen here, mightymike, Bose isn't too respected. Many people here think they are way overpriced for an inferior product. Some others think that outside of this site as well. However, Bose does a fantastic job advertising and marketing their product- that's exactly why so many people think it is the highest quality HT/audio out there. I'm a corporate trainer and we talk about hobbies once in a while in class- whenever I say that a hobby of mine is HT/audio equipment, it's guaranteed someone in class mentions how Bose is top of the line. Or something like, "You must have Bose then."

I personally don't think Bose products sound bad; I just think the prices are high for what you get.

I recommend picking up a Onkyo, Denon, or Yamaha receiver in the $300-$500 price range. Then pick some speakers that are made by a speaker company who only make speakers- pick up 2 front bookshelf speakers and their matching center channel. You can also pick up the 2 surrounds at that time, too. Subs can be expensive, but they're very important in HT so do your research- about $350-$500 should get you a decent sub. No need for 7.1 right off the bat- there aren't even DVDs recorded this way yet (or at least I don't think there are)- some people like the 7.1 and how it fills in gaps in their room, but you need a decent amount of room for all those speakers, too.

HTIB set-ups aren't all that bad, but it depends what you're looking for. If you want top notch sound, then don't get a HTIB. If you want okay/decent sound for next to nothing money-wise, then HTIB is for you. My brother got the Onkyo HTS770 or something like that a couple years ago and it's perfect for him because he's really not too much into audio/HT- he wanted 5.1 so he got that and it's honestly not bad at all- especially for $400.

It all depends on what you want. The great majority here will talk so negatively about HTIB set-ups and they're talking negatively most likely because it's not for them- they are probably more into higher quality set-ups- makes sense- that's why they're visiting this site.

Here's my $.02 -- if you spent a decent amount on the plasma, I'm think you want good or even great quality for sound. What's a movie that looks great, but doesn't sound too good? If you are going to spend more than $400-$500 for everything, get the HTIB out of your options and look at a receiver and speakers. Also, Bose is pricey so look at other combinations. Remember, pick a receiver that will do the job (like a Yamaha 657/5860 or Onkyo 603)- then get a couple front speakers from a good speaker company and be sure to get the center channel at the same time (much better if they match). You can always finish out your HT with surrounds and a sub later on. Many people are so into getting everything right away- then they regret not researching and putting enough effort/thought/money into it.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.
Eric

[paul_pci]

I just wanna puke whenever I hear that somebody thinks Bose is good. I just don't understand it.

Please, you understand it. Like the rest of us, you just hate to see people taken in by marketing schemes.

[N. Abstentia]

Please, you understand it. Like the rest of us, you just hate to see people taken in by marketing schemes.

Yeah maybe that's what I don't understand!

Bose salesman: "These speakers sound great because of the research!"

Customer: "They don't really sound that great to me."

Bose salesman "But they use a bass module that you can't even see! They sound fantastic, trust me. Even Paul Harvey said so!"

Customer: "Okay, maybe they do sound good."

Why people can't just at least turn around and go listen to other speakers first is beyond me.

[eisforelectronic]

wait...is this a real question?

I think I would get the Onkyo just so it wouldn't say Bose on it.

I went to a Nissan dealership a few weeks ago. I got into the new Altimaa SE-R and thought it looked not bad, quite improved from the past models. I saw that the Bose logo was a bit bigger as well...I got out of the car and left the dealership.

[JeffKnob]

The most I would ever pay for that Bose system would maybe be $300. It isn't worth anything more than that. The bass module isn't a real subwoofer because it doesn't go deep enough, there is a gap in sound between the bass module and the other speakers, and the satelite speakers only go up to about 13Khz. That is not what I would consider a good system. You should go with the Onkyo or some of the other systems suggested.

[mtymightymike]

Thanks for all the advice, I think Bose is out of the question. I will probably go with a decent Denon or Onkyo reciever and tack on the speakers and sub. Anything suggestions on speakers? I also live in Central New York between Syracuse and Rochester, so if anyone has a good place around those areas that specialize in home theater audio please tell.

[lbrande]

Look for a Tweeter. Circuit City, and a Best Buy. I know they are in the Albany area, so they should be either in Syracuse, or Rochester. If anything, you can cross the boarder to Mass, and get to Springfield. These stores would have a good setup to preview.

[GMichael]

I am a fan of how dependable the Yamaha receivers are. Check out their link http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/receivers/receiver_main.htm

Pop in your zip code here and you will get a list of their dealers in your area. http://www.yamaha.com/yec/customer/dealer.aspx

But these are just their higher end dealers for the RXV and RXZ lines. Best Buy also sells their HTR line.
Try Circuit City for Onkyo receivers and Infinity speakers. The Primus line sounds very good for the price. Here is another link for the Infinity's. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-DLPxyzOlkFM/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=12700&I=700P5PPS8

[L.J.]

Anything suggestions on speakers?

Read this thread here (http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=10906).

[thekid]

We recently bought a new plasma TV for our TV room and were looking to get a good audio system to go along with it. What I am currently looking at is the Bose Lifestlye 28 and the Onkyo HT-S780. Now I know that Bose is one of the best when it comes to home theater audio, but the only think scaring me away is the price. I have heard a lot about Onkyo recievers and it has only been good. Basically my question is that is it worth it to shell out that much money for a Bose or buy the Onkyo for a cheaper price and get better componet speakers. Thanks.


Here are links:

Onkyo-S780 http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S780&class=Systems&p=i

Bose http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_PRODUCT_PAGE_EVENT&product=ls28_dvd_index

As has been said by others the problem with the Bose you mentioned is that it is overpriced and does not sound better than their stand alone speakers (201 or 301's) with a sub and is about twice as expensive. If you are considering shopping at the local Best Buy see if you can find one with a Magnolia HT store inside. i just had the chance to visit one and compared to my regular Best Buy at home it was like another store/world. Good luck in finding your system.

[lbrande]

All the suggestions made are good. What I did was purchase the Home Theater Buyers Guide, and reviewed the speakers that would meet my criteria. In the beginning cost then response. After making my choices, I looked for places that would have them. The end result was Magnapan MGIIIb's which I have for 20 years, and replaced the tweeter elements on each only once.
A systematic method would work best initially, with rigerous auditions with your favorite music and DVD's. Electronics are less problematic.

[jamison]

what you need to do is do a side to side comparison of the 2100 dollar bose set up compared to a 499 dollar set up made by anyone else.... that is more like an equal comparison on performance.
that is if you can find a place that will let you compare bose to other manufacturers... bose doesnt want this to happen for a reason... they make inferior products. my brother in law is all about bose... i swear he should sell the darned things.. he goes on and on about how great Bose is. then after 5 minutes he asks me what is that crackling sound coming out of the surround speaker, 5 minutes after that he is asking how do i tweak the center so i can hear the dialog. jump ahead a few years and he has a party at his house with all kind of snobish rich business clients and they all are oohing and ahhing when they see bose in his living room... we listen to it then the bass goes out on the left speaker... low and behold the surround on the woofer rotted out. I started chuckling very hard and said BOSE = Better of with something else.... what does my bro in law do but take em in to the bose store and have em refoamed for 150 bucks. christ he could have bought new woofers for 60 bucks at rat shack and they would last longer

[accastil]

i totally agree, bose has spent too much on marketing and they did it very well. a lot of people think that they sound really good and this has become a mindset already. the truth is, all of this was just a "perception", a "misconception"...bose doesnt sound good at all. they just cost too much to make everybody else think that they sound that good. here's what i suggest...
listen to Bose and afterwards, listen to a Denon, HK or a Marantz paired with decent speakers. hear it for yourself, your own ears would never lie to you.

[BEETLEMAN]

hey HAVIC thanx for the BOSE link, ive been looking for some output on this subject for some time. just printed it off and faxed it to my friend ( probably not anymore) that works at the local futureshop. i reffer to him as MR BOSE. funny to see how many people fall into the hype of this product. dont laugh i do have a set of 901's but i got them for cheap and spent time fixing them up. they have been forsale for sometime now and still no takers so the word must be getting out.
i have a few friends over the years (20 years or so) that have had problems with their bose crapolla and they usually end up giving them to me to look at. i usually advise to throw them out or with some i have replaced the drivers with something different. but its like putting lipstick on a pig. and thats all i have to say about that.

[GMichael]

. but its like putting lipstick on a pig. and thats all i have to say about that.

Now that's a classic. Better than the "band-aid on a broken artery" I like to use.

[swgiust]

I have a friend who recently purchased an Infinity Primus and HarmonKardon system.
It was 7.1 with the two main speakers slightly larger than the rest. It had a 10" sub,
all for $ 1000.00. You get a real reciever and real speakers and it sounds really nice.

[mtymightymike]

Well here is an update, it seems like Bose is not longer an option and a HTIB is a long shot. I went to a store about 45 mins away and they blew me away. I was showed a NAD receiver for $700, and then PSB speakers for everything else. It blew me away. The whole packed was under $2000, but the only thing that got me was the reciever. It costs $700 and didn't seem to have as many features as an Onkyo or Denon. Now this could be my false knowledge of NAD, but is it really that good that I wouldn't need extra features such as 6.1 or DTSNEO:6? Here is a statement they wrote up for me:

1) PSB Alpha B Front Speakers $250
2) PSB Alpha C Center Speaker $230
3) PSB Alpha Intro CR Surrounds $200
4) PSB Subsonic 5C Powered Sub $700
5) NAD T743 Surround Reciever $700

The salesmen really sold us on how good of a speaker company PSB was, so that's what will probably sell me on this set. I just want to see what you guys have to say about NAD and PSB and if I should get a different reciever or combinations. Thanks.

[GMichael]

I have a friend who recently purchased an Infinity Primus and HarmonKardon system.
It was 7.1 with the two main speakers slightly larger than the rest. It had a 10" sub,
all for $ 1000.00. You get a real reciever and real speakers and it sounds really nice.

I like mine. They do a fine job. And a great price. They got a good write up in Stereophile mag a few months back. June I think. They called the 360's a great bargin and claimed them to be better than most $1000+ speakers.

[Woochifer]

Since you already have a DVD player, an all-in-one closed loop system like the Bose Lifestyle or even an integrated receiver/DVD combo are not needed. Go with a decent entry level receiver, and shop around for speakers. If the look or compactness are important, an alternative to the small cube approach is to go with flat on-wall speakers. Those speakers are very popular with plasma TV owners and represent the fastest growing segment of the speaker market right now. They won't sound as good as a decent pair of standmounted bookshelf speakers, but they are designed to mount on the wall and will have better range than something like the Bose cubes will.

Companies that currently make on-wall speakers include Martin Logan (see pic below), B&W, Paradigm, Boston Acoustics, Definitive Technology, and Vienna Acoustics. If you have a Magnolia Home Theater store (inside of Best Buy) close by, they have a lot of the on-wall models available for demo. Also, don't be afraid of using your speaker budget to get only two or three speakers at first, and adding the subwoofer and/or surrounds later on. Devoting more budget to a higher quality pair or trio of speakers will expand your options, and give you better performance in the long run. Receivers all have virtual surround functions for systems with two, three, or four speakers, so why not make use of that feature since you'll pay for it anyway, especially if it's only for a short time until your budget allows you to add more speakers?

http://www.martinlogan.com/images/fresco_zoom4.jpg
Martin Logan Fresco

[swgiust]

You will hear it preached over and over again. Go and listen to systems and buy what
you like the sound of. You have picked very good components and speakers. Buy it
and do what you are supposed to do with a home theater, ENJOY!

[misterq4u]

Can't never go wrong with Onkyo, Denon or Marantz.

[gruss72]

Well here is an update, it seems like Bose is not longer an option and a HTIB is a long shot. I went to a store about 45 mins away and they blew me away. I was showed a NAD receiver for $700, and then PSB speakers for everything else. It blew me away. The whole packed was under $2000, but the only thing that got me was the reciever. It costs $700 and didn't seem to have as many features as an Onkyo or Denon. Now this could be my false knowledge of NAD, but is it really that good that I wouldn't need extra features such as 6.1 or DTSNEO:6? Here is a statement they wrote up for me:

1) PSB Alpha B Front Speakers $250
2) PSB Alpha C Center Speaker $230
3) PSB Alpha Intro CR Surrounds $200
4) PSB Subsonic 5C Powered Sub $700
5) NAD T743 Surround Reciever $700

The salesmen really sold us on how good of a speaker company PSB was, so that's what will probably sell me on this set. I just want to see what you guys have to say about NAD and PSB and if I should get a different reciever or combinations. Thanks.

Most of the "features" you'll be lacking will be rarely used anyway. If you have a fairly new DVD player then quite a few of the reciever options are redundant as the Player will most likely decode DTS etc. If you really liked the sound you heard but the lack of features on the NAD bothers you, buy the speakers from that shop, prices don't look to bad and pick up an Onkyo, marantz, yamaha, denon reciever on the internet. accessories4less had my Marantz SR6300 for around $350...has most of the bells and whistles (which sit idle as I typically use either the Stereo or prologic modes 99% of the time) but its a couple of model numbers behind so they were unloading them cheap. Very nice by the way and is quite "expandable" for the years to come, I'm sure you can find a bargain of your own!

[emorphien]

Well here is an update, it seems like Bose is not longer an option and a HTIB is a long shot. I went to a store about 45 mins away and they blew me away. I was showed a NAD receiver for $700, and then PSB speakers for everything else. It blew me away. The whole packed was under $2000, but the only thing that got me was the reciever. It costs $700 and didn't seem to have as many features as an Onkyo or Denon. Now this could be my false knowledge of NAD, but is it really that good that I wouldn't need extra features such as 6.1 or DTSNEO:6? Here is a statement they wrote up for me:

1) PSB Alpha B Front Speakers $250
2) PSB Alpha C Center Speaker $230
3) PSB Alpha Intro CR Surrounds $200
4) PSB Subsonic 5C Powered Sub $700
5) NAD T743 Surround Reciever $700

The salesmen really sold us on how good of a speaker company PSB was, so that's what will probably sell me on this set. I just want to see what you guys have to say about NAD and PSB and if I should get a different reciever or combinations. Thanks.
The NAD is essentially in a different level than the products you've looked at which have surround sound. You can get a lot of those features you mentioned but you'll end up spending more than the NAD to have comparable quality, but some of the gee whiz features are left out because they can often be a way to cover up substandard components at the lower end.

NAD and PSB are a good combination and I don't think you'll be missing that much with that NAD surround receiver.

Even though it'd be nice to listen to the Onkyo system you originally posted and compare it to the Bose, compare this NAD/PSB system to the Bose. The price for each system will be about the same but the Bose will sound like a $10 clock radio in comparison.

[LMB]

If you need small speakers checkout Boston Acoustics Micro
I have the 130's and the sound is great compared to Bose Acoustimass 15 I you to have
I'm hearing things in my music and dvd's I never heard before

good luck have fun

[topspeed]

PSB's are very well respected, as are countless others. The most important thing is to listen to a LOT of speakers and determine what sounds best to you. It's very easy to become enamored with the moment and let your emotions get the best of you. Don't forget, before you heard the PSB's, you thought the Lifestyle system was the cat's meow.
If you get an opportunity, you might audition these Epos ELS3's & CC. (http://audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=EPOELS3&product_name=ELS3%20Mini%20Monitor%20Speakers%20-%20Pair) Four ELS3's, a CC, and a nice Dayton sub from partsexpress.com would make a heckuva starter system, IMO.
http://www.inthouse.ru/epos/pic/els3.jpg

I also like Cambridge Soundwork's (hifi.com) Newton series for HT. My dad just upgraded to Newtons and I was duly impressed, especially when he told me how much he spent! The sound is a bit warmer than the Epos' and the mids aren't as resolved, but they are still very musical and not the least bit fatiguing. CSW was founded by the late, great Henry Kloss (AR, Advent, KLH) and while they are owned by Creative now, they still represent terrific bang-for the buck. Check out their Clearance Outlet for the best deals.

Nad makes really nice sounding equipment, although their lower lines have looks only a mother could love. You might also consider offerings from Cambridge Audio such as the 540r which has been recieving raves. Naturally, there's nothing wrong with Denon, Yammie, or Onkyo either. Spend far more of your budget and time choosing your speakers than the front end. Differences in electronics are far smaller than those found in different speakers.

Hope this helps.

[Florian]

I cant comment on the PSB but if the other guys say its a good set then i will join in. The NAD is fairly good build with a large powersupply and basic functions. I personally am a fan of NAD in their price class and also Cambridge Audio. I would also look at the Cambridge Audio Azur 540R

-Flo

[emorphien]

I cant comment on the PSB but if the other guys say its a good set then i will join in. The NAD is fairly good build with a large powersupply and basic functions. I personally am a fan of NAD in their price class and also Cambridge Audio. I would also look at the Cambridge Audio Azur 540R

-Flo
Agreed, don't pass over Cambridge either.

[daviethek]

I was shopping at an outlet mall recently. There was a Bose store there. I went in and stepped in front of one of their "listening cubes". They were selling a system that was com-posed of a DVD player, relatively small sub and four satellites. The price was 2,900 and something. I asked the salesman if the flat screen was included. He didn't like that too much.

They got a lot of guts asking that kind of money for a relavtively simple HT set-up. They also have nice stores with staff wearing uniforms. They have attitudes. They remind me of the Curtis Mathes stores when I was a kid. They were like "here it is, its the best and you're gonna pay". They need organized competetion.