Need help placing speakers :(

[tenebros]

Wiring the surround sound in a couple of weeks and can't decide which way to go. Looking at using the 7.1 Orb package with the Pioneer VSX-815K.

The TV will sit in the Media Niche. The seating will wrap around the back corner next to the Nook's half wall. The ceilings will be 9 feet 4 inches. Trying to decide if mounting the Orb speakers on the ceiling will be a good idea or if I should wall mount the speakers, or use stands to line up with ear level.

Plan to use the system for music and movies. The room is very open as you can see in the pictures below; no real walls. The room that will have the surround system is roughly 16 x 20. Have come up with two ideas for speaker placement. The ceiling mounted option:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y225/piggles1102/Ceilingmounted.jpg

The wall and/or stand mounted option:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y225/piggles1102/wallandstandmounted.jpg


Thoughts? Suggestions?

[Pat]

Any chance you could set it up temporarily just to get an idea which would be best?

[Eric Z]

Nice diagrams- it really helps the explantion. I would recommend getting stands for the at least the fronts. The reason why is because it gives you more flexibility. What if you don't like them in the ceiling or on the wall? I know you can fill the holes, but that can be a pain.

[paul_pci]

Oh my god, do not ceiling mount Orbs! One of the main drawbacks of the satellite speakers is that they have a limited dispersion, in that, as soon as you walk away from them, you can no longer here them. Wall mounting may be your best bet here as Orbs are designed to be placed on stands.

[kexodusc]

Try not to have the side surround speakers in front of your listening position. This will do much more harm then good.

[EdwardGein]

I'm pretty sure Orb recommends against this. I love Orb speakers too me they are the best in the world As I obviously have a smaller living room On my 5.1 set up with Denon 3801 I place
the three front speakers on top of my Mitsubishi TV & the the back 2 are to the left and right on end tables next to my sofa. The Sub is in an open area a few feet to the right of the TV. I have the same setup in the bedroom too except I had to uses ARS Sub 108P instead as the Orb Sub is too lous accoustically for that set up in the bedroom because of the closed in wall. If you like Orb you should post a seperate thread here!

[s dog]

Wiring the surround sound in a couple of weeks and can't decide which way to go. Looking at using the 7.1 Orb package with the Pioneer VSX-815K.

The TV will sit in the Media Niche. The seating will wrap around the back corner next to the Nook's half wall. The ceilings will be 9 feet 4 inches. Trying to decide if mounting the Orb speakers on the ceiling will be a good idea or if I should wall mount the speakers, or use stands to line up with ear level.

Plan to use the system for music and movies. The room is very open as you can see in the pictures below; no real walls. The room that will have the surround system is roughly 16 x 20. Have come up with two ideas for speaker placement. The ceiling mounted option:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y225/piggles1102/Ceilingmounted.jpg

The wall and/or stand mounted option:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y225/piggles1102/wallandstandmounted.jpg


Thoughts? Suggestions? I have 2 pic off my klipsch ss-1s. no.1 is a pic off the rear surround and no.2 is a pic off one of the side surrounds with cover off so you can get a good look at it, I have them mounted 6ft high on the wall with a swivel mount so i can angle them down at the listening position. I have a 6.1 set up and the surrounds sound really good on side walls. hope this helps, ps hope my pic are on here new at posting pics

[Lensman]

Though you've done your best to create a symmetrical setup for your speakers, there are numerous problems inherent in your layout (assuming the plan is reasonably accurate). The two most significant are the fact that your media center is aimed at the back door off your breakfast nook instead of toward the seating area and your seating area looks to be about 20 feet away from your television (given your estimate of room size). HT aside, this is also quite wasteful of the space in the room and forces traffic to always flow through the middle of the viewing area.

How much of the layout shown is open to modifcation? You say this is a new house that you're preparing to wire. Does this mean it's under construction and the direction/placement of the media center could be adjusted? Have you already bought the Orbs or could in-ceiling speakers be an option (Paul_pci offers good council about not mounting Orbs this way)? Is the seating placement/shape something carved in stone?

A more ideal layout would have your seating area closer to the media center and in a direct line with it, instead of being off to one side. In-ceiling speakers could be used for the surrounds while more conventional front and center speakers could be placed in your media center. The back of the family room could then be arranged with a second intimate seating area or used for other purposes and family traffic could flow behind you when you watch a movie.

[tenebros]

Have you already bought the Orbs or could in-ceiling speakers be an option (Paul_pci offers good council about not mounting Orbs this way)? Is the seating placement/shape something carved in stone?

A more ideal layout would have your seating area closer to the media center and in a direct line with it, instead of being off to one side. In-ceiling speakers could be used for the surrounds while more conventional front and center speakers could be placed in your media center. The back of the family room could then be arranged with a second intimate seating area or used for other purposes and family traffic could flow behind you when you watch a movie.

The layout of the house and the seating has been set in stone at this point, including the media center. Not really worried about traffic moving in front of the television, only 3 of us in the house. Wife really likes this placement, and since I get the loft as a game room with a surround sound system, I figure I won't fight her on it.

Have not purchased the Orbs, plan to once we move in. I am open to the idea of using in ceiling speakers, just never seen them done before. Could have the speakers wired for the ceiling and install ceiling speakers myself. Have any recommendations for in ceiling speakers and conventional speakers? Currently running DCM 12 towers and a DCM center with sony rears and a sony sub. DCMs are great for parties, but they are huge.

If you had this floor plan with the seating arrangement I listed and a budget of 2000.00 to buy speakers and reciever, what would you get? I had thought Orbs would be a good choice, maybe I was wrong?

[EdwardGein]

If I were you I'd phone Orb direct & they'll give you a straight answer even if if costs them a sale. Personally, I don't understand why you insist on them hanging from the ceiling as they're so small and innocuous anyway there is no reason to hang them there but each to their own.

[tenebros]

If I were you I'd phone Orb direct & they'll give you a straight answer even if if costs them a sale. Personally, I don't understand why you insist on them hanging from the ceiling as they're so small and innocuous anyway there is no reason to hang them there but each to their own.

Hope I am not coming across like I insist on anything, I am here looking for input from people with more knowledge then I have. :)

Actually I am now researching in ceiling speakers as an option since it was a suggestion.

[paul_pci]

Given that your setup is set in stone, the one thing that I'd rethink is the 7.1 setup itself. The ideal condition for a 7.1 setup is to have sufficient space behind the listening position to both warrant and benefit from the two extra rear channels. Not commenting on the Orbs specifically, but I think that you should be just fine with a 5.1 setup. If you do go with the Orbs, wall mounting or some sort of shelf would be best. If you do go with the 5.1 setup, first get a good idea of the best positioning for the rear channels before permanently affixing them to the room. I don't know much about in ceiling speakers, except that, if for any reason, your furniture arrangement should be changed, then you're kinda screwed on that.

[EdwardGein]

I'm a bit lost here & I wish you the best whatever you choose. I have Orbs Mod 1 set up and have that with a Denon 3801 receiver & Harmon Kardon DVD player. I think the sound for DVDs, CDs & TV is terrific & it looks great too. I have the same setup in my bedroom but with an ARS sub as the Orb Supereight is too loud in that room because of the walling & the fact that I'm in an apartment. The Orb sub is fine though in my more open living room. You can get the Orb setup for around $750. You can get the more expensive Orb Mod 2 set up for $1200. Personally, I don't think the Mod 2 is necessary unless your room is super huge. You can also get a combination of Mod 1 & 2 for around $1,000.

I can't comment on other speakers because I haven't heard any of them.

[tenebros]

I'm a bit lost here & I wish you the best whatever you choose. I have Orbs Mod 1 set up and have that with a Denon 3801 receiver & Harmon Kardon DVD player. I think the sound for DVDs, CDs & TV is terrific & it looks great too. I have the same setup in my bedroom but with an ARS sub as the Orb Supereight is too loud in that room because of the walling & the fact that I'm in an apartment. The Orb sub is fine though in my more open living room. You can get the Orb setup for around $750. You can get the more expensive Orb Mod 2 set up for $1200. Personally, I don't think the Mod 2 is necessary unless your room is super huge. You can also get a combination of Mod 1 & 2 for around $1,000.

I can't comment on other speakers because I haven't heard any of them.

Have not changed my mind, only researching everyones feedback. :)

Have you tried different receivers with the Orbs? Wondering if the receiver will maek a difference.

[EdwardGein]

Have not changed my mind, only researching everyones feedback. :)

Have you tried different receivers with the Orbs? Wondering if the receiver will maek a difference.

I had the JVC RX DV31SL which Orb also sold to their customers as a service because they said it was compatible. It was & I was very happy with it. However, I started experimenting with other high end receivers & CD/DVD players to see if I could get even better sound & nothing really sounded better then the DV31SL until I lucked out on my Denon 3801 & Harmon Kardon 31 DVD player combo along with a glass optic link component cable for TV input via Ebay for about $20 & another Optic Cable I also got from a manufacturer on Ebay for $20 which improved the sound for me though other people here insist it doesn't. Anyway, I'd recommend this combo with the Orbs. You can get the Denon 3801 for about $400 used in excellent condition on Ebay & the Harmon Kardon new for around $250 online.

[Woochifer]

That's a really tough layout. I would actually aim for a 5.1 setup rather than try to accommodate the back surrounds in a 7.1 layout. Having surround speakers forward of the listening position won't sound too good.

The ceiling mounting looks like your only option for the surrounds, so you should try and align them about 110 degrees off-center. You can go with a bracket that hangs the speakers down from the ceiling. You should try to put as much space from the ceiling as possible. In-ceiling and pointing down to the floor should be avoided because the soundfield in the surrounds is too far off-axis.

If at all possible, you should keep the mains and center at ear level, and elevate the surrounds so that they're about 2' above ear level. Dolby recommends that the L/R surrounds aim towards each other rather than pointed towards the listening position.

The first diagram looks like the better spacing for the mains up front because of the distance that your TV sits from the listening position. The diagram below shows the ideal alignments.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/global/images/diagrams/dolby_digital_pro_logic2.jpg

[EdwardGein]

Is there a reason the sub is to the right? I'm asking because my sub is to the left in an open area without a back wall. If I moved it to the right there would be both a back wall & a wall to the subs left. Just curious.

[recoveryone]

I read above about the seating being set in stone, but if you could just move it up about 2-3 feet away from the rear wall area and then place the speakers behind it no matter if they were ceiling or wall mounted, would give you a nice surround sound. Your fronts will need to be adjusted real high to make up the distance, unless you like the airy sound that having the rears real close can give you. Sounds awesome on Space flicks gives you the feel of being right there.



And for ED, the difference in placing your sub with a read wall behind it will enhance the bass (Boom) than if leaving it without one which may cause you to have to turn it up more to get the same results.

[Lensman]

The layout of the house and the seating has been set in stone at this point, including the media center. Not really worried about traffic moving in front of the television, only 3 of us in the house. Wife really likes this placement, and since I get the loft as a game room with a surround sound system, I figure I won't fight her on it.

Have not purchased the Orbs, plan to once we move in. I am open to the idea of using in ceiling speakers, just never seen them done before. Could have the speakers wired for the ceiling and install ceiling speakers myself. Have any recommendations for in ceiling speakers and conventional speakers? Currently running DCM 12 towers and a DCM center with sony rears and a sony sub. DCMs are great for parties, but they are huge.

If you had this floor plan with the seating arrangement I listed and a budget of 2000.00 to buy speakers and reciever, what would you get? I had thought Orbs would be a good choice, maybe I was wrong?

It's an agonizing conclusion to reach, but to answer your question, if I had this floor plan and could not change the layout, orientation of video equipment, style of seating or seating position, I wouldn't spend money to put a HT setup in this room.

With your current layout, you are forced to place your surround sound speakers at points where the majority of the listening position is behind them (more harmful than beneficial as Kexodusc pointed out). Both your layouts need to have the seating forward of the actual place you're putting it. Or you would have to place the speakers so far back into the corner that most of the seating area would end up outside their field. Going to a 5.1 setup will not alleviate the problem.

Instead, I'd please the wife by putting the family room to more family-oriented use. I'd start by placing a modest stereo system in the media center for music to enjoy while entertaining, cooking, spending time with the family, etc. Then I'd take the money I saved and put it toward putting even better HT gear in the game and movie room in the loft.

If you simply must put an HT system in the family room, I'd take your floor plan around to your local audio dealers/installers for advice when you go to discuss in-ceiling speakers with them. In-wall and in-ceiling speakers are the rage these days and virtually every respectable speaker company makes them. Your local dealers will have ones that have had serious thought put into their design and most have options that will fit within your budget. And yes, you can put them in yourself.