Looks Like The Bottom Is Falling Out Of The Dvd Market [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

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GMichael
11-17-2005, 01:40 PM
DVD's are dropping in price like stocks during the depression. Something is going on. Are Blu-Ray & HD-DVD's being released soon? Let me know when they get to 0.50.

http://www.jr.com/JRSectionView.process?Section_Path=/promos/movie09/&JRSource=email.BlackFriday.11172005

Woochifer
11-17-2005, 02:14 PM
Looks like someone's trying to clear out some shelf space. Most of those titles in the sale are older titles that just aren't in demand anymore, and some of them (e.g. the Alien titles) have already been replaced by newer expanded editions. They're the same titles that you would typically find in the bargain bins at Best Buy or Wal-Mart. The studios can push (or have already pushed) the price points right back up on a lot of these titles by rereleasing them with additional content or addressing any issues (i.e. 384k DD soundtracks, nonanamorphic video, scant bonus features, etc.) that might have accompanied the original release.

In actuality, the DVD price points on new releases have not gone down at all in the last four years (typical list price for a new release is still around $30). New releases are what move the market because they generate the most sales, and the vast majority of those sales occur within a short time frame after initial release. Once the demand subsides on those titles, then the studios and/or retailers stimulate sales by lowering the prices.

Also, keep in mind that the DVD is now a mature format. People who buy a DVD player for the first time will build a DVD library around their favorite titles, and that was very prevalent in the early years of the format. But, now there aren't a lot of first-time DVD player buyers left, and most people who have favorite DVD titles that have been around for a few years, will likely already own those titles.

I don't think that Blu-ray or HD-DVD are even a blip on the radar yet. There's just a lot of stale product that's been sitting on store shelves and in warehouses. No different than older CD titles that no longer sell in bunches getting allocated to bargain series status. Consumers are no longer ramping up their DVD collections by loading up on older titles, because there just aren't a lot of DVD newbies out there. Rather, consumers are merely augmenting and adding on with new releases.

HT BUFF
11-17-2005, 04:06 PM
I think the "burning" of DVD'S has a lot to do with, I have heard of people renting 4 DVDS @ a time and burning them prior to returning them.

Eric Z
11-17-2005, 04:45 PM
Good points! I still see a decent amount of DVDs about $12-$15; they are usually the more recent/new release versions. However, a lot of stores (online and retail) are starting some pre-Christmas prices- sorta like the post about deepdiscountdvd.com.

I agree with not as many people buying DVDs because they rent them and burn them. I have a friend who has burned about 100 DVDs in the last year- it's crazy!

robert393
11-17-2005, 04:57 PM
Yes, DVD prices are dropping, And although I agree in the most part with Woochifer's assessment, I will disagree in regards to HD-DVD & Blu-Ray. They ARE more than a "blip" on the radar.

I can only speak for myself, but I stopped adding to my DVD collection about 6mts ago in anticipation of High Definition DVD. I think I am not the only one that has stopped buying DVD either!

DVD looks antiquated when compared to True HD. High Definition DVD has 2x the picture quality of current DVD's (and that is AFTER conversion from 480i to 480p!). With that said, High Definition DVD sales may start slow, but it won't take long (relatively speaking), and it will be outselling traditional DVD (480i).

All indications are High Definition DVD will be entering the market place 1st quarter of 2006. We are talking a couple months here! IMO, you will continue to see eroding DVD prices as they try to sell what they can, and saturate the (480i) market before those buyers eventually upgrade to High Definition (1080i) DVD.

"The best analogy is the the comparision of 480p to HDTV to the comparison of the inferior video quality VHS to that of DVD. Or, putting it another way, VHS has half the resolution of DVD and DVD is half the resolution of HDTV." Quoted from here (http://hometheater.about.com/cs/television/a/aafoxhdtv03a.htm)

Robert

Eric Z
11-17-2005, 05:02 PM
We have a database at my job where associates can sell things to each other. Lately I've seen tons of DVDs- one guy put his whole collection online- over 100 for $5 each. I picked up a few titles that I've never seen. I looked at it like I might have eventually rented it and that would have been $2-3 so what the heck.

I'm curious to learn more about when HD-DVD and Blu-ray will be on the market. I read an article a while ago about HD DVD players being out in Japan. Is that right? I remember something about something costing about $1K in Japan and I could swear it was an HD DVD player, but I might be going crazy. I think someone posted about it here somewhere- I could do a search, but I'm too lazy.

N. Abstentia
11-17-2005, 05:45 PM
Who here will be replacing their entire DVD collection and equipment with HD-DVD or BluRay? Just curious...

robert393
11-17-2005, 05:56 PM
Who here will be replacing their entire DVD collection and equipment with HD-DVD or BluRay? Just curious...
EVERY videophile will.....eventually! Especially if they are a true enthuasist and have a dedicated Multi-Media Room, and want the very best PQ available! But heck, some people still haven't replaced their VHS collection because they don't see the need and are perfectly happy with the PQ of VHS! They figure, why spend money on new hardware (DVDP) and then spend more money having to replace all thier software (VHS) titles?

Others, will not hesitate to embrace a technology that provides 2x the PQ of DVD.

I will not replace mine all at one time, but like my DVD collection slowly replaced my VHS collection, I will replace my DVD collection with High Definition DVD.

"The best analogy is the the comparision of 480p to HDTV to the comparison of the inferior video quality VHS to that of DVD. Or, putting it another way, VHS has half the resolution of DVD and DVD is half the resolution of HDTV." Quoted from here (http://hometheater.about.com/cs/television/a/aafoxhdtv03a.htm)

Robert

N. Abstentia
11-17-2005, 07:00 PM
Sounds like you work for HD-DVD. If this thing does not take off, will you go broke or something? You almost have a better sales pitch than that kid at Best Buy selling Monster Cables!

robert393
11-17-2005, 07:38 PM
Sounds like you work for HD-DVD. If this thing does not take off, will you go broke or something? You almost have a better sales pitch than that kid at Best Buy selling Monster Cables!

HD is exciting and contagious. The experience is so superior to 480p, you can't help but be excited to have more source material available! I have been watching HD movies for years now (HBO-HD, SHO-HD, HDNMV, GUYTV, MONSTER, MAJESTIC as well as D-VHS), so I'm excited to see High Definition DVD hitting the market in the next few months. It will allow for even more HD choices!

NA, you don't need to fear HD. It's here, it's beautiful, and it's here to stay. Why not learn to embrace it? As an HT enthusiast, I would think you would welcome HD and having 2x the PQ of 480p?

btw, do they still push Monster at BB? I haven't been in a BB in a years.

Robert

N. Abstentia
11-17-2005, 07:50 PM
I don't fear HD, I just have no need for it right now. I'd rather not wait a year to watch movies when I can watch them on DVD right now. I know it's the future...but that's the key word. Future. I'm enjoying my system right now, why should I wait? Whenever HD is readily available and affordable ($600 for each HD DirecTIVO..and I need FOUR of them) I'll get it. I've been through 8 track..then vinyl...then cassette..then CD...then SACD....this is no different. VHS..laserdisc..DVD...no different. It's just another step in the never ending upgrade...calm down dude!

Are you trying to convince us or yourself that HD is right now the dominant format? Sounds like you're trying to justify to yourself that abandoning DVD was the right thing to do :)

robert393
11-17-2005, 07:58 PM
I don't fear HD, I just have no need for it right now. I'd rather not wait a year to watch movies when I can watch them on DVD right now. I know it's the future...but that's the key word. Future. I'm enjoying my system right now, why should I wait? Whenever HD is readily available and affordable ($600 for each HD DirecTIVO..and I need FOUR of them) I'll get it. I've been through 8 track..then vinyl...then cassette..then CD...then SACD....this is no different. VHS..laserdisc..DVD...no different. It's just another step in the never ending upgrade...calm down dude!

Are you trying to convince us or yourself that HD is right now the dominant format? Sounds like you're trying to justify to yourself that abandoning DVD was the right thing to do :)

You're the one that needs to calm down. Hey, I didn't invent HD, I don't need to be convinced of it's superior PQ. I'm just enjoying it. The future is now. I've been watching nothing but HD for years now. 65" Mits (CRT-HD) in the bedroom, and 133" projection (LCoS-HD) in the Media Room.

Sorry you don't have the technology, but that is no reason for you to continue to "slam" it either.

btw, you may want to start another thread for your rant, and not "hi-jack" this one! This thread is about plummeting DVD prices and possible causes.
Robert

L.J.
11-17-2005, 08:05 PM
Who here will be replacing their entire DVD collection and equipment with HD-DVD or BluRay? Just curious...

I'm up to about 200 DVD's. All paid for. No way am I replacing anything. I was gonna get another AVR but decided to just wait and keep my 2805 for now. I'm not gonna change my spending habits just because a new format is coming. I'll jump in the HD-DVD or BR game when I like what I see. I do plan on getting a PS3 though. There's always gonna be something to spend money on.

Why not have the best of both worlds. We got what we got now so might as well enjoy it. There will always be new releases and titles I don't own on DVD that I can buy in the future on HD-DVD or BR.

robert393
11-17-2005, 08:49 PM
Why not have the best of both worlds. We got what we got now so might as well enjoy it. There will always be new releases and titles I don't own on DVD that I can buy in the future on HD-DVD or BR.

That's my plan too!
Robert

N. Abstentia
11-17-2005, 08:53 PM
You're the one that needs to calm down.

I'm just saying....you sound like an infomercial. You sound like the guy selling that 'magical cleaning solution' and yelling at everybody!

Personally...like L.J. said....I'll be enjoying both. No need to limit ones self.

robert393
11-17-2005, 09:02 PM
I'll be enjoying both. No need to limit ones self.
Not with the H31. It's maximum resolution is 480p, which is less than half the resolution of HD.
Robert

N. Abstentia
11-17-2005, 09:26 PM
By the the time HD-DVD catches on (if it even does) in a few years, I might find time to get an HD projector.

However, if what you say is true...that HD-DVD's won't display at all on a non-HD display (which is over 90% of TV's in America) this thing is doomed from the start.

Eric Z
11-18-2005, 04:28 AM
I feel a lot of people will replace them eventually. However, I'm not sure if everyone will eventually. As long as DVDs play, I feel people will keep them- that's the nice thing about DVDs, they last longer than tapes.

I will replace some of my DVD collection when (all must happen):

--HD-DVD/Blu-ray are around the same price as current DVDs (under $20)
--HD-DVD/Blu-ray players are around the same price as current DVD players (a decent one under $200)
--HDTVs prices drop (I know there are a decent amount of sets under $1K- I want more under $1K)

Note: There is no guarantee for me to change even when all of the above changes- there's way too much unknown to commit to anything.

I think the majority of non-audio/HT file folks feel the same way or even most tied to regular DVDs.

I'm interested to see what happens.

Good question.
Eric

N. Abstentia
11-18-2005, 04:41 AM
Plus it's almost a miracle just to get some stuff on DVD, much less HD-DVD. Such as the upcoming Rush DVD's.

robert393
11-18-2005, 05:46 AM
However, if what you say is true...that HD-DVD's won't display at all on a non-HD display I never said HD will not display on non-HD sets. If you are going to quote me, get it right!
The source material will display (provided appropriate inputs), BUT only at the level of the display. If your display's resolution is 854x480 Pixels, that will be the resolution you will be able to display. It won't matter that the source material is 1280x720 Pixels (720p) or 1920x1080 Pixels (1080i), you will be limited to 480p That being said, the person with only 480p display capability will not be able to watch true HD, and true HD is 2x the PQ of 480p!


.....this thing is doomed from the start. Hd is here. It's beautiful. And it's here to stay. For some reason, you just don't understand that!


....non-HD display (which is over 90% of TV's in America).... Again, if you are going to make a statement, or quote somebody, you need to get it right. Here are some of the ACTUAL figures: These are easy to find. GOOGLE: HDTV SALES

October 6, 2005-"By the end of 2004, HDTV sets made up 21% of overall TV sales; that number will rise to 70% of overall TV sales by the end of 2010. Additionally, 63% of U.S. TV households will have an HDTV set by 2010." Quoted from here (http://www.jupitermedia.com/corporate/releases/05.10.06-newjupresearch.html)

"December 3, 2003 — Falling prices and improved availability of programming combined to boost sales of high-definition television sets by 50% during the past year" Quoted from here (http://www.hometheatermag.com/news/120303hdtv/)

October 28, 2005-"Nearly 47% of TV households in the U.S. plan to buy an HDTV in the next twelve months". Quoted from here (http://www.physorg.com/news7662.html)

Robert

Eric Z
11-18-2005, 06:07 AM
Way to post some stats, Robert. I don't think anyone is disputing HDTVs being here to stay. I think people are feeling (I know I am) hesitant because it seems that the manufaturers of HD-DVDs/Blu-ray are a bit slow with releasing info on those formats. I know if you search you can learn more about it, but the average person has no clue that HD-DVD/Blu-ray is even a thought. I mention it to friends and family and they've never even heard about it.

It's those who aren't too into HT/audio that make up probably 85% of consumers (maybe less- it's my estimate) and those are the ones who manufaturers need to buy into HD and the new formats.

I just think there needs to be more marketing surrounding this new technology- not HD because there's plenty of that; I'm talking HD-DVDs/Blu-ray.

L.J.
11-18-2005, 06:23 AM
the average person has no clue that HD-DVD/Blu-ray is even a thought. I mention it to friends and family and they've never even heard about it.

Same here. I don't even bother to bring it up anymore. No one I know has even heard of SACD or DVD-A either. I do have a couple of friends that are in to HT and you're right, they are content with what they have.

robert393
11-18-2005, 07:10 AM
Way to post some stats, Robert. Thanks! I just get tired of NA misquoting and trying to confuse.

I don't think anyone is disputing HDTVs being here to stay.
Some people(....errr....uhhh, I think you know who...lol!) have been trying to convince us that
1) HD is not any better than 480p.
2) HD may not "catch-on"
3) HDTV sets are in less than 10% of American homes
ALL THIS is simply NOT TRUE!

I think people are feeling (I know I am) hesitant because it seems that the manufaturers of HD-DVDs/Blu-ray are a bit slow with releasing info on those formats.I agree, but remember, these are emerging technologies and ALOT IS AT STAKE for the winner (assuming one format wins out!). We're talking about billions of dollars a year from the sale of High Definition DVD. Both formats are strategizing for the LONG-HAUL, knowing that they will eventually OWN the DVD market!

...........the average person has no clue that HD-DVD/Blu-ray is even a thought. I mention it to friends and family and they've never even heard about it. Not to worry, they will soon enough! Of course ANYBODY I have at my house get's to experience HD (in all it's glory) on 133" LCoS. After they pick their jaw up off the chest, they are ALL ABOUT GETTING HD for themselves....lol!


It's those who aren't too into HT/audio that make up probably 85% of consumers (maybe less- it's my estimate) and those are the ones who manufaturers need to buy into HD.... October 6, 2005-"By the end of 2004, HDTV sets made up 21% of overall TV sales; that number will rise to 70% of overall TV sales by the end of 2010. Additionally, 63% of U.S. TV households will have an HDTV set by 2010." Quoted from here (http://www.jupitermedia.com/corporate/releases/05.10.06-newjupresearch.html)
October 28, 2005-"Nearly 47% of TV households in the U.S. plan to buy an HDTV in the next twelve months". Quoted from here (http://www.physorg.com/news7662.html)


I just think there needs to be more marketing of HD-DVDs/Blu-ray. Like I said, High Definition DVD will be hitting the "streets" in the next few months. You will then see a "blitz" of marketing. Until then, I will be enjoying all the HD that is available TODAY!

Robert

Smokey
11-18-2005, 09:36 AM
That being said, the person with only 480p display capability (854x480 Pixels) will not be able to watch true HD (1920x1080 Pixels), and true HD is 2x the PQ of 480p!

Hi Rob

Actually, HD have 4x times resolution of 480p.

For 1080i HD, not only we get twice resolution horizontally, but we also get twice resolution vertically. So 2v x 2h = 4 :D

robert393
11-18-2005, 01:44 PM
Hi Rob

Actually, HD have 4x times resolution of 480p.

For 1080i HD, not only we get twice resolution horizontally, but we also get twice resolution vertically. So 2v x 2h = 4 :D
Wow Smoke! I didn't realize that, but it doesn't surprise me. When I see HD on my monitor, it is a "Night & Day" difference from DVD (480p)! 4x the PQ would be about right!~
Thanks for helping me with that.........
Robert

Woochifer
11-18-2005, 01:45 PM
Yes, DVD prices are dropping, And although I agree in the most part with Woochifer's assessment, I will disagree in regards to HD-DVD & Blu-Ray. They ARE more than a "blip" on the radar.

Those formats most certainly are off the radar for the ~80% of households that do not currently own HDTVs. And even for most HDTV owners, I don't think that their disc purchasing behavior has changed much with the HD disc formats about to come out. If anything, I've been reading a lot of vitriol over the copy protection schemes proposed for the new formats, and that has put a wet blanket over much of the enthusiasm for the next gen disc formats. And for the roughly 50% of current HDTV owners (as per AVS Forum's informal poll) who lack the needed digital video inputs, they're out in the cold for the time being as well. That equates to a very small group of potential consumers at format launch, unlike the DVD launch which had virtually all households as potential consumers.


I can only speak for myself, but I stopped adding to my DVD collection about 6mts ago in anticipation of High Definition DVD. I think I am not the only one that has stopped buying DVD either!

Well, you are the first one on this board that's stated that they would stop buying DVDs. If anything, the rate of growth with the DVD has slowed down because it's more of a mature ubiquitous format, but that does not mean that the market has in itself collapsed. The demand is now driven by the title releases, rather than the format itself (where you had new DVD player owners populating their collections with a lot of older titles).


DVD looks antiquated when compared to True HD. High Definition DVD has 2x the picture quality of current DVD's (and that is AFTER conversion from 480i to 480p!). With that said, High Definition DVD sales may start slow, but it won't take long (relatively speaking), and it will be outselling traditional DVD (480i).

That would presume that the transition over to HDTV will in itself provide the necessary market support for the HD disc formats. But, given the emergence of on-demand and broadcast HD and the eventual entry of downloadable HD media, there's absolutely no guarantee that the primary viewing format will be through disc media. By the time HDTV is reality for the majority of households and a large enough consumer base is in place for a HD disc format to potentially supplant the DVD as the disc format of choice, the roster of HD viewing options will have also expanded and all of them potentially cut into the HD disc market base. Just look at how radically music listening habits have changed in the last five years, and it's easy to visualize similar changes in the assumptions about viewing habits.


All indications are High Definition DVD will be entering the market place 1st quarter of 2006. We are talking a couple months here! IMO, you will continue to see eroding DVD prices as they try to sell what they can, and saturate the (480i) market before those buyers eventually upgrade to High Definition (1080i) DVD.

You're making an accurate technical point, but the success of HD-DVD/Blu-ray is going to be more of a market question than anything. And IMO, the market conditions in support of HD-DVD/Blu-ray are far less favorable than those that existed for the DVD. Over the years, plenty of technically superior formats have failed in the market.

As I mentioned, the price erosion on discs seems to apply more to older titles that have been out for a while. The new releases that comprise the majority of DVD sales have not seen price drops in the prevailing list prices for at least the past four years. It's only when the demand for a hot new title falls off that the prices drop accordingly, and with the DVD format in its 9th year, the list of older less in-demand DVD titles keeps growing.

robert393
11-18-2005, 02:27 PM
.....given the emergence of on-demand and broadcast HD and the eventual entry of downloadable HD media, there's absolutely no guarantee that the primary viewing format will be through disc media..... I'm SO "on-board" with that! VOD -HD, and simply "leap-frog" High Definition DVD....Yippeeeee!~

Robert

Jim Clark
11-19-2005, 06:31 AM
Again, if you are going to make a statement, or quote somebody, you need to get it right. Here are some of the ACTUAL figures: These are easy to find. GOOGLE: HDTV SALES

October 6, 2005-"By the end of 2004, HDTV sets made up 21% of overall TV sales; that number will rise to 70% of overall TV sales by the end of 2010. Additionally, 63% of U.S. TV households will have an HDTV set by 2010." Quoted from here (http://www.jupitermedia.com/corporate/releases/05.10.06-newjupresearch.html)

"December 3, 2003 — Falling prices and improved availability of programming combined to boost sales of high-definition television sets by 50% during the past year" Quoted from here (http://www.hometheatermag.com/news/120303hdtv/)

October 28, 2005-"Nearly 47% of TV households in the U.S. plan to buy an HDTV in the next twelve months". Quoted from here (http://www.physorg.com/news7662.html)

Robert

At the risk of flogging a dead horse Robert, you take NA to task on quotes and his 10% of American Households currently having HDTV and do so by using a bunch of quotes that essentially support what he's saying. Take your first quote for example which says that more than 5 years down the road only 63% of households will have HDTV's. Based on your source the 10% currently probably isn't much off at all.

A two year old quote stating that HDTV sales were up 50% in 2003 means exactly that and nothing more.

The final quote doesn't really say too much either and may actually support quote number one. Again, it says nothing that would undermine NA's claim. The important fact is simply that while you want to take NA to task, you have fallen way short. Perhaps critical thinking isn't really your thing?

HD is a great thing and it is the future. What's really going on in my estimation is something of a personality conflict. For my part, you have a smugness about you that rubs me the wrong way. Take for instance your repeated claims of "a dedicated media room". By any objective measure the fireplace in the middle of your room makes your claim patently false. Maybe you don't really know what"dedicated" means. Perhaps I don't know what you actually mean by your claim? If you had a ceremony and have a plaque in the room dedicating the room to your grandfather I guess you could say that you have a "dedicated" media room. I've never seen a movie theater or studio with a brick fireplace in the middle of it much less wood walls on the balance. You can knock NA's projector but realize that there are any number of people that could easily call into question your set up too. In addition to the untreated wood and brick walls, there are a number of fairly sizeable shortcomings in other areas that are glaring in my estimation. Much easier for NA to buy a new projector when the time arrives than it is for you to deal with your issues. You do have a really nice projector though and I wish I had more light control in my room, which has other issues of it's own.

Regards,
jc

robert393
11-19-2005, 10:34 AM
At the risk of flogging a dead horse Robert, you take NA to task on quotes and his 10% of American Households currently having HDTV and do so by using a bunch of quotes that essentially support what he's saying. ..... Again, it says nothing that would undermine NA's claim.
His claim is that 10% of American households have HDTV (totally unsubstantuated) and I give supporting documentation & research showing that more than 21% as of Dec, 2004 (a year ago....that number would be much higher now), and you say my quotes "support what he is saying"? Wow! I would say that a difference of more than 100% would constitute a substantial difference from what he said. Now, explain that to me again how
my quote "essentially support what he's saying". Maybe MATH is not one of your strong points, but that difference constitutes MILLIONS.
This quote I gave is about 4 weeks old........
October 6, 2005-By the end of 2004, HDTV sets made up 21% of overall TV sales....JUPITERRESEARCH FORECASTS HDTV SALES IN THE U.S. WILL GROW DRAMATICALLY OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS, CONSTITUTING 70% OF ALL TV SALES BY 2010 Read the entire study here (http://www.jupitermedia.com/corporate/releases/05.10.06-newjupresearch.html)
Like I said Jim, I don't know what part of that substantiates NA's claim that only 10% of American Households have HDTV. That number is more than DOUBLE NA's claim. Would you clarify what you meant?

HD is a great thing and it is the future Jim, I personally have more than 23 HD channels (5-dedicated HD movie channels (Uncensored & uncut!)), and many more are available. You say "HD is the future", but HD is here NOW. Will HD become even more prevelant in the future, sure, but make no mistake about it, HD is HERE NOW!

For my part, you have a smugness about you that rubs me the wrong way. Sorry 'bout that JC, their is a function in the tools menu that allows you to not see posts from any member that you choose. Maybe you would feel better not seeing my posts?

By any objective measure the fireplace in the middle of your room makes your claim patently false.
Are you claiming that it is false? And your credentials are? Thank you for your input, I will certainly take that under advisement. Jim, you never mentioned NA's GREY PAINTED wall for a screen. How do you think that fits into your definition of a refined Multi-Media Room?
What I have is a dedicated Multi Media Room. I love having the fireplace in the room. You can't believe how "cozy" it is to have the fireplace turned-on, enjoy guest's and watch a movie....(sometimes MAYBE watch something spicy with the wife beside the fireplace?) ! I get compliments on my Media Room all the time, but what really matters is that I love it and I get to enjoy it on a daily basis!

Maybe you don't really know what"dedicated" means.....I've never seen a movie theater or studio with a brick fireplace in the middle of it much less wood walls on the balance. I'm sure my Multi-Media Room is not as nice as yours, but I'm enjoying it daily!

You can knock NA's projector but realize that there are any number of people that could easily call into question your set up too. Jim, you may want to see the history here. I COMPLIMENTED NA's ENTIRE SYSTEM....numerous times! What I got in return was "smashing" of my projector & speakers. I didn't criticize until well after I got criticized.
Look here (http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=14069) at post
# 13 "Very nice setup, congratulations! If you are anything like me you will have many hours of pure enjoyment from you HT!"

#16 "Enjoy the 854x480 resolution of the H31. It gets really great reviews for projectors at it's level.
In post #16 I even gave a link to a WONDERFUL review of the H31: http://www.projectorcentral.com/optoma_h31.htm

#24 "Look, you got a nice ($1000) projector (Native: 854x480 Pixels), ENJOY IT!!!!!!!!!"

#35 "That's awesome! As I stated MANY TIMES before, I'M HAPPY FOR YOU! You have what most videophiles can only dream of. That being a dedicated HT with 110" picture!

#46 "I REALLY like your HT setup, and for a $1000 (Native: 854x480 Pixels) projector with a wall WITH GREY PAINT FOR A SCREEN, it is nice. I hope you enjoy it!"

The above thread is where all this got started. I gave MANY COMPLIMENTS, what I got in return was....well, you go back and read the entire thread and see for yourself. Did I end-up defending myself.....yes!


In addition to the untreated wood and brick walls, there are a number of fairly sizeable shortcomings in other areas that are glaring in my estimation. What shortcomings? Your estimation? I really got to see your Media room, you seem to have such high standards, I bet your room is wonderful! Let's see: LCoS Projector, 133" 16x9 fixed Draper screen, Panamorph Lens, multi-level seating, 23 HD channels, D-VHS, Flagship Definitive Technology L/R/C (each with powered subs >2k watts), Sunfire Sub for LFE (>2k watts), state-of-the-art inwalls for true 7.1, Flagship Denon AVR, DVD-Audio, DVD-Video, 50hrs of HD DVR.........HUMMMMmmmm....I'm, not feeling too bad here! No matter who walks into this room, I'm told I have the absolute best setup they have ever seen. I'm not talking about next-door neighbors here (although it's certainly fun to see their faces!), I'm talking about industry professionals. But I have worked hard, and for many years to achieve this equipment & setup, of course working in the industry helps!

Much easier for NA to buy a new projector when the time arrives than it is for you to deal with your issues.
I love NA's Media Room. It's is AWESOME! He should be very proud. He has what most videophiles can only dream of having. When you read the thread I posted above, you will see I ONLY took issue with his wanting to proclaim 480p superior to 1080i. I didn't start "slamming" him 'till he smashed me several times. BTW, NA has said one good about my setup. Now, do I still seem so smug? And the personality difference happened only after I got slammed several times. BTW, Jim, you never mentioned his GREY PAINTED wall for a screen. How do you think that fits into your definition of a Multi-Media Room?

You do have a really nice projector though and I wish I had more light control in my room, which has other issues of it's own.Thank you Jim, I always nice to meet somebody that recognizes what this projector really is. I got it 3yrs ago, and I have never seen a better picture. LCoS is "seemless" with no artifacting, or screendoor effect. The colors (especially in HD) are so life like!

Jim, I was a LOOOONGGGGG time member here, but after being gone for a year or so, my username was dropped so I had to re-register. I'm NOT new here, and I think if you look around you will see that I have a very good reputation with some of the older/more KNOWLEDGABLE members here ie Smokey, Terrance to name a couple.
Hopefully, any differences between NA & myself will be handled in a more mature fashion from this point forward. At least, I will do my part!

Regards,
Robert

L.J.
11-19-2005, 11:48 AM
....(sometimes MAYBE watch something spicy with the wife beside the fireplace?) !

Waaaay too much info... :D

Jim Clark
11-19-2005, 11:53 AM
Robert, like I said, critcal thinking isn't something you do well. Your first quote says that 21% of tv sales in 2004 were of HDTV's. In order for your quote to mean anything at all in relation the argument you would need to state what percentage of Americans BOUGHT tv's in 2004. Surely you're not that stupid and it's just some sort of temporary mental block and the haze will lift soon. Clearly despite your protests you've done nothing to show he was wrong. The local paper here used the same 10% number within the last week in an article detailing the extension for broadcasters to meet HT standards. Simply put Congress recognizes that the overwhelming majority of Americans do not have HT TV's as of yet.

HD TV is here-HD media is not and it's going to be Easter before the arrival even starts. Even then with competing standards it's not in all likelyhood going to take off like a rocket. At least that's the feeling of many and I tend to agree.

Finally, you can take a dump with headphones on and call it a dedicated listening room if you want. Doesn't change the fact that it's a crapper as far as I"m concerned. As I noted in a previous thread, your room is vastly superior to mine. Doesn't change the fact that it's far from perfect. If you're really curious I'll post my gear in a later thread, I've got a BB game to get to now.

jc

robert393
11-19-2005, 12:48 PM
Your first quote says that 21% of tv sales in 2004 were of HDTV's. In order for your quote to mean anything at all in relation the argument you would need to state what percentage of Americans BOUGHT tv's in 2004. Wrong again Oh- Sullied one! The fact that 21% of tv sales in 2004 were HDTV's is a direct quote from here (http://www.jupitermedia.com/corporate/releases/05.10.06-newjupresearch.html) and is the HDTV forecast for the U.S. entitled "U.S. HDTV Forecast 2005 to 2010: Managing Consumer Perceptions to Gain Market Share". Do you think the study is flawed?
Surely you're not that stupid and it's just some sort of temporary mental block and the haze will lift soon. Easy does it there big boy. You're gonna pop a vein! :mad:

Clearly despite your protests you've done nothing to show he was wrong. What part of this study (http://www.jupitermedia.com/corporate/releases/05.10.06-newjupresearch.html) do you find wrong or not understand? :confused: This is the most recent study I have found. Do you have a recent study showing proof of your claim?
The local paper here used the same 10% number within the last week in an article... Oh well HELL, the LOCAL newspaper is ALWAYS the last word & authority....lol!! Not doubting your word here Jim, but I would certainly like to see that documentation (or ANY recent recent study/documentation proving your claim of 10%!) Here's an idea, maybe, you can share with your local newspaper the LATEST STUDIES! I'm sure they would appreciate your providing them with current & accurate information! ;)
Simply put Congress recognizes that the overwhelming majority of Americans do not have HT TV's as of yet. (I think you meant to say HD, not HT?) Nope, the majority doesn't, BUT the number is over 21%, and that is more than 2x the 10% you and NA are trying to convince everybody of! I really would like to know what your sources are for your claims regarding 10% of American households have HDTV. Surely you are not just making statements without being able to provide proof or having documentation, and being able to show sources?
HD media is not {here} and it's going to be Easter before the arrival even starts. Even then with competing standards it's not in all likelyhood going to take off like a rocket. Where you been Jim? Come out from under that rock you been hiding! :eek:
I have over 23 HD channels, 50 hours of HD-DVR capacity, D-VHS, and watch HD exclusively (well, 98% is HD viewing).
Here's today's HD Line-up! (http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=63672) :cool:
D-VHS Movie Selection (http://www.dvhsmovie.com/movies/trailerpark.asp)

Finally, you can take a dump with headphones on and call it a dedicated listening room if you want. Doesn't change the fact that it's a crapper as far as I"m concerned. Guess that means your not coming over for Pop-Corn and a movie later? :(
As I noted in a previous thread, your room is vastly superior to mine. Yeah, and let's see....mine is a "crapper", so yours must be REALLY iccky!
Doesn't change the fact that it's far from perfect. FINALLY :eek: YOU ARE RIGHT! It's FAR from perfect, but all that REALLY matters is that I love it and enjoy it on a daily basis! :cool:

If you're really curious I'll post my gear in a later thread... Not unless you promise to settle-down a bit, I mean your kinda freaking me
out. :p
And you gotta forgive my (crappy) Multi-Media Room enough to grace me with your presence for at least one movie and some pop-corn the next time you are in the DFW area of Texas.....come-on, you said you like the projector! ;) Seriously, I would love to get a "gear" list. I'm sure you have some really nice stuff, and I promise NOT to call it "crappy"!
Jim, I looked at your profile and read your post history. You seem like a really intellegent guy, and you have some very good knowledge and information. The language you have used with me while describing my gear & HT doesn't seem to be a good representation of the way you usually conduct yourself. Maybe I caught you on a bad day? Come-on now.....I must to have said something that has pissed you off with me. If I did, I sincerely apologize.
Now, you wanna move forward or keep degressing and let it get personal?
Robert

robert393
11-19-2005, 01:04 PM
Waaaay too much info... :D
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hey, at least I didn't post a pic with it....lol!!!
Robert

GMichael
11-19-2005, 05:05 PM
For my part, you have a smugness about you that rubs me the wrong way.

jc

I think this is the main point. Forget the %'s and who's right or wrong about them. It's the smugness that he shows that's a pain in the butt. I just wish he'd grow up already.

robert393
11-19-2005, 05:18 PM
I think this is the main point. Forget the %'s and who's right or wrong about them. It's the smugness that he shows that's a pain in the butt. I just wish he'd grow up already. Yeah, you don't want to get confused with the facts when your mind is already made-up....lol! As for me, I would much rather deal in the realms of reality & facts.....with supporting documentation. Sorry that the ACTUAL numbers and facts are of no interest to you. As for who's right or wrong....the numbers don't lie. They are not bias. The numbers are just that what they are.....they don't take sides.
Obviously, you mistake a MEMBER THAT GIVES FACTS, AND SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION as being "smug". Too bad.
GMichael, you started this thread, and I tried to provide quality input.
Robert

Jim Clark
11-19-2005, 05:24 PM
I'll make it very easy and type very slowly for you Rob.

"By the end of 2004, HDTV sets made up 21% of overall TV sales;"

If every household in America bought a TV in 2004 then 21% of American households would have an HDTV based on the figures for 2004 alone. The very simple and plain fact is that 100% of American households did not buy a TV in 2004. For all you know it was 3% of American households buying a tv in 2004. Get it? Then 21% of that 3% would have HDTVs purchased in 2004. The claims you are making are not supported with the information provided.

Since it's really bothering you - here's the 10% number for you to ponder:
http://www.bethel.edu/~socsco/ComTech/DigitalTV.html

Here's another: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/jacob_luft/07/19/hdtv.confessions/
Granted here you need to make a leap of faith-the first site claims 110 million tv households in the US. This July 2005 article would translate into slightly more that 10%.

Here's June of 2005 with a whole lot worse than 10%: http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA604583.html?display=Special+Report

Here's another one claiming 12% at the end of September 2005 - http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/joelbrinkley/

Here's a 4% cited in June of 2005. http://www.jsonline.com/enter/tvradio/jun05/335203.asp

In truth I didn't actually bother to read through all the articles nor your posts. The 20 minutes I've spent on this is too much time wasted already. My point was simple, or should have been. You want to blast someone and provide a bunch of nonsense that doesn't even apply to the situation to back you up. That's exactly the sort of smugness that rubs me the wrong way. It may be unintentional but it's there none the less.

I have no desire to let this get any more personal then it is already.

GMichael
11-19-2005, 05:37 PM
Yeah, you don't want to get confused with the facts when your mind is already made-up....lol! As for me, I would much rather deal in the realms of reality & facts.....with supporting documentation. Sorry that the ACTUAL numbers and facts are of no interest to you. As for who's right or wrong....the numbers don't lie. They are not bias. The numbers are just that what they are.....they don't take sides.
Obviously, you mistake a MEMBER THAT GIVES FACTS, AND SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION as being "smug". Too bad.
GMichael, you started this thread, and I tried to provide quality input.
Robert

I'm not confused at all. The fact is that you are smug and a pain in the butt.
As far as HDTV, I plan on getting ready for it. I wish you were right about it being ready now. Buit I can wait.
The facts are not the problem people have with you. It's the way you like to talk down to people. And somehow I don't think I'm the first, or even second to tell you this.
By the way, your numbers are based on the sales of TV's durring one year. Do you really think that every house in the US bought a new TV last year? Wake up and smell the coffee. The numbers are not on your side. I wish they were. But they aren't.

That's right, I started this thread. Most people gave good input. You gave smugness. (if that's even a word)

Now try to learn how to work and play well with others. And for G.ds sake, keep up on your meds from now on.

robert393
11-19-2005, 06:24 PM
Since it's really bothering you - here's the 10% number for you to ponder:
http://www.bethel.edu/~socsco/ComTech/DigitalTV.html
Old, Old, Old....how 'bout something within the past 5 yrs?


Here's another: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/jacob_luft/07/19/hdtv.confessions/
Granted here you need to make a leap of faith-the first site claims 110 million tv households in the US. This July 2005 article would translate into slightly more that 10%.

Yeah, slightly more as in 13%. Thanks for the article though, These are direct quotes from your source! (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/jacob_luft/07/19/hdtv.confessions/)....and you thought I was smug-
"High Definition" for all of you dinosaur sports fans out there who are still not familiar with what we like to call "modern technology." How is that Model-T holding up, anyway? You figure out the Hula Hoop yet? Back away from the Rubik's Cube, man, you're scaring me.""I know that sounds condescending but I feel pretty safe in assuming the majority of those reading this column don't have HDTV and that mere fact makes me a higher life form than you. (Not a god, necessarily, but at least a minor deity of some sort.)"

"If you are a part of this ultra-exclusive club, I offer a hearty congratulations as we bestride the narrow world like a Colossus. As for {non-HD}, you have my condolences."

"HDTV is the best luxury item to come along since central A/C....If you've never seen an HD broadcast, just think about how finely detailed your highest-grade DVD looks and realize that HD is way better."

"When you watch a football game, you can count the individual blades of grass on the field. If it's snowing, you can discern the shapes of the snowflakes....You'll get so spoiled watching sports in HD that you will think twice about attending an event live if it is being broadcast in HD."

Here's June of 2005 with a whole lot worse than 10%: http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA604583.html?display=Special+Report Sources please? Which study?


Here's another one claiming 12% at the end of September 2005 - http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/joelbrinkley/] A BLOG? You gotta be kidding me? Your using BLOG's as your RESEARCH SOURCE?


Here's a 4% cited in June of 2005. http://www.jsonline.com/enter/tvradio/jun05/335203.asp They don't say that 4% is the number of HDTV's in American Households. Don't continue to try to confuse.........


In truth I didn't actually bother to read through all the articles nor your posts. Why does that not surprise me?
You want to blast someone and provide a bunch of nonsense that doesn't even apply to the situation to back you up. Thought you "didn't actually bother to read" my post? So, how could you actually know if it was nonsense? Now, which is it.....did you read it and it was nonsense or did you lie when you said you "didn't actually bother to read"?

You know what, I'm really tired of arguing with NON-HD people that DON'T EVEN HAVE A MULTI-MEDIA ROOM! Tell ya' what, get HD & a Multi-Media Room then let's talk. After all this is the HOME THEATER FORUM....lol!!! And I wouldn't qualify anybody as having a HT that didn't have an HD equipped HOME THEATER (Home Theater Forum....you get it?)

Robert

robert393
11-19-2005, 06:43 PM
As far as HDTV, I plan on getting ready for it. Congratulations! I'll quote the link your friend JC gave me :
"High Definition" for all of you dinosaur sports fans out there who are still not familiar with what we like to call "modern technology." How is that Model-T holding up, anyway? You figure out the Hula Hoop yet? Back away from the Rubik's Cube, man, you're scaring me."- Quoted from here (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/jacob_luft/07/19/hdtv.confessions/)

I wish you were right about it being ready now. Wait for what? It's here, and it's beautiful!

And somehow I don't think I'm the first, or even second to tell you this. Of course you are not the first. GM, you are not the first to say anything. You are a "bandwagon" person. Somebody says something, then you hop on the bandwagon. Your a Parrot. You hear "Robert's smug" (imagine a parrot's voice here), then you repeat 'Robert's smug....Robert's smug"....lol!

The numbers are not on your side. I wish they were. But they aren't. Look, I could REALLY give flying flip if the total percentage of American Households with HDTV is 10%, 13% or 20%. HDTV is here, and it's growing baby! But the most important thing is, I'm enjoying it EVERYDAY!


And for G.ds sake, keep up on your meds from now on. Do you hear that Parrot in the distance....LOL!!! Now you're Parroting MY lines....LOL!

GM, you started this thread, and you have had given ZERO input (not 1 post!) until now, and you jump on the bandwagon. For Gods sakes Scarecrow, follwo the yellow brick road and get a brain! Seriously, learn to think for yourself or you will always be a followerer! NA & JC may not always be around for you to Mimic & Parrott.
Lest we forget this is the HT Forum..........You heard the milk commercial that says "You Got It?" Well, if you don't have HT......SHHHHHhhhhhh! Hang around and LISTEN, that is a good way to learn!
Robert

N. Abstentia
11-19-2005, 07:59 PM
Good God I log on today to see this crap still going on? Robert if all 10 or so of these HD channels are so great, why are you spending every waking moment sitting on your duff trying to cut everyone in this forum down? STFU and go watch your HD whilst jacking off since it gives you such a huge boner. I think you need a good woman, if just for one night. That would make a huge difference in your attidute and then maybe you'd understand why the rest of us could really care less about what you think about our systems.

SlumpBuster
11-19-2005, 08:08 PM
I heard HD gives you cancer! It's true, I read it in a book. It also makes your hair line recede and your testicles shrivel!

N. Abstentia
11-19-2005, 08:14 PM
Dang if that's true then Robert should look like Gollum by now! Makes sense actually...I can see him crouched in the corner eating raw fish and wrestling with the demons in his head, all the while trying to protect 'his precious' HDTV :)

Actually I guess that joke is wasted on Robert since he does not go to the movies, refuses to watch DVD's, and LOTR won't be out on HD-DVD for another 3 years or so...if at all.

Jim Clark
11-19-2005, 08:38 PM
I see you finally let go of the losing proposition that was your quotes. I've been flipping the switch but you didn't seem to have a bulb in the socket. Better late than never.

To respond-

quote 1 includes information as recent as October of 2005 and includes 2004 actual sales. Not sure where you come up with 5 years old. Oh yeah, I forgot who I was dealing with. My bad.

Quote 2-Yeah, 13% v. 10%. I can see why you are so bothered. Hope you were able to catch Whopner, Rainman.

Quote 3-If you want the full cites on the source-subscribe and look it up for yourself. You're telling me you're lazy too? I mean come on, I've already had to explain your own quotes to you surely you can carry some of the load.

quote 4 - a blog? Well, yeah I guess it's a blog. A blog that includes the cites for the information. He refers to and names three independent research firms. Holy carp-what on earth do you think the Jupiter Research Company is? You do remember citing them, right? I was wrong, you really may be that stupid.

And in the end, we really can be done with this. People capable of comprehension know what's going on here. If there was any doubt at all:

"You know what, I'm really tired of arguing with NON-HD people that DON'T EVEN HAVE A MULTI-MEDIA ROOM! Tell ya' what, get HD & a Multi-Media Room then let's talk. After all this is the HOME THEATER FORUM....lol!!! And I wouldn't qualify anybody as having a HT that didn't have an HD equipped HOME THEATER (Home Theater Forum....you get it?)"

Well, Robert I do have HD, and have for a while. I have what could be called a multi-media room if I was a pompous jag off. I actually think of it as my HT and in your world it wouldn't qualify as that. In the end it's a glorified family room, mainly because I have a family. I also read the morning paper in there while I listen to some music. Occasionally I have friends over and we'll sit in there and visit. I certainly don't have what anyone on earth would call a "dedicated home theater". It's got a fireplace in it after all.

And I am being dead serious here, my moment of denseness if you will. I really don't get your parting shot at all. You say "And I wouldn't qualify anybody as having a HT that didn't have an HD equipped HOME THEATER (Home Theater Forum....you get it?)" I really don't get it. If it was "High Definition Forum" then I'd get it. Kind of. Are you saying that without HD you can't have a Home Theater? Seriously?? What have people been doing the last 15 years? In your little private world the only movies that are available are broadcast movies so now watching broadcast tv is the only ht? Personally I think you've lost it.

Nice chatting with you. At the very least we've uncovered one nut job and given everyone else a little drama to follow.

Regards,
jc

robert393
11-19-2005, 09:12 PM
And in the end, we really can be done with this.....jc
I know you have trouble reading entire post, so I'll make this short for you. Wow! From reading your post history, I never realized what a Douch-Bag you are! Being you must really suck?


...only movies that are available are broadcast movies so now watching broadcast tv is the only ht? You really didn't read my post! You REALLY need to crawl out from under that rock you been hiding! D-VHS, More than 23 HD channels, 5 HD-Movie channels (uncut & uncensored), and 50hrs of HD DVR........you must really be confused about what's out there.
Here is todays HD Line-up (http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=63672)
And here is D-VHS titles (http://www.dvhsmovie.com/movies/trailerpark.asp)
You guys don't have to like it, but I'm certainly enjoying it!
JC, I guess you didn't want to drop it?
Robert

robert393
11-19-2005, 09:33 PM
....watch your HD whilst jacking off...it gives you such a huge boner. OMG, we got the Village Idiot back (Hey Moe!)....lol! You should be happy to know that Larry & Curly left bread crumbs for you to find your way back!
Robert

GMichael
11-20-2005, 05:01 AM
Congratulations! I'll quote the link your friend JC gave me :
"High Definition" for all of you dinosaur sports fans out there who are still not familiar with what we like to call "modern technology." How is that Model-T holding up, anyway? You figure out the Hula Hoop yet? Back away from the Rubik's Cube, man, you're scaring me."- Quoted from here (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/jacob_luft/07/19/hdtv.confessions/)
Wait for what? It's here, and it's beautiful!
Of course you are not the first. GM, you are not the first to say anything. You are a "bandwagon" person. Somebody says something, then you hop on the bandwagon. Your a Parrot. You hear "Robert's smug" (imagine a parrot's voice here), then you repeat 'Robert's smug....Robert's smug"....lol!
Look, I could REALLY give flying flip if the total percentage of American Households with HDTV is 10%, 13% or 20%. HDTV is here, and it's growing baby! But the most important thing is, I'm enjoying it EVERYDAY!

Do you hear that Parrot in the distance....LOL!!! Now you're Parroting MY lines....LOL!

GM, you started this thread, and you have had given ZERO input (not 1 post!) until now, and you jump on the bandwagon. For Gods sakes Scarecrow, follwo the yellow brick road and get a brain! Seriously, learn to think for yourself or you will always be a followerer! NA & JC may not always be around for you to Mimic & Parrott.
Lest we forget this is the HT Forum..........You heard the milk commercial that says "You Got It?" Well, if you don't have HT......SHHHHHhhhhhh! Hang around and LISTEN, that is a good way to learn!
Robert



The 55" Sony I have now is 1080i/780p. I just have quality issues with it, and I'd like to get a larger viewing area.

So, you have a bandwagon of people here telling you that you are a pompus j.rk? How about the rest of the people in your life? No one else has said this to you?

I do have HT. Can't you read my list of equipment? It may not be $40,000 but it sure does 7.1 very well.

SSSSHHHHHHH........ now who's mimicing who. I've seen you use this line several times sinse I said it to you a couple of weeks ago. Get your own mind will ya. Yep, I quoted you. Get over it.

Seems to me I did post a few more than once here. Trouble counting too?

GMichael
11-20-2005, 05:21 AM
Oh, and you do have a very nice HT room. Good work there.

robert393
11-20-2005, 05:52 AM
Oh, and you do have a very nice HT room. Good work there.
Thanks GM, I REALLY would like to get along here.
Robert

GMichael
11-20-2005, 06:16 AM
Thanks GM, I REALLY would like to get along here.
Robert

Works for me.

The fire place is a nice touch. I still haven't decided on which room I want mine in. Do you have any sound issues with yours?

Jim Clark
11-20-2005, 06:20 AM
OK, you made one excellent point in all of this -Dvhs. It's not something I give a lot of thought to, for a number of reasons. To call it a languishing format would be an understatement. To spend 30 to 40 bucks on a title in a format that nobody thinks is going to survive didn't make any sense to me, clearly you thought otherwise. Maybe that will turn out to be a good investment for you. So, hat's off to you. It took a while but you actually made a good point and clearly win that one.


jc

robert393
11-20-2005, 08:39 AM
OK, you made one excellent point in all of this -Dvhs. It's not something I give a lot of thought to, for a number of reasons. To call it a languishing format would be an understatement. To spend 30 to 40 bucks on a title in a format that nobody thinks is going to survive didn't make any sense to me, clearly you thought otherwise. Maybe that will turn out to be a good investment for you. So, hat's off to you. It took a while but you actually made a good point and clearly win that one.


jc
I agree with the "languishing" technology part. The D-VHS (http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/features.jsp?tree=&model_id=MDL101392&itempath=&feature_id=01) came as a free gift with the purchase of the JVC SX21U LCoS projector, or believe me, I would never have paid $1000.00 for the technology. It also came with 4 free tapes (of my choice). I see High Definition DVD (or HD-VOD?) eiking out the D-VHS market. Like laserdisk, I think technology will simply leapfrog D-VHS. But, since I have the hardware, I have no problem paying $30 for 1080i titles (http://www.dvhsmovie.com/movies/trailerpark.asp). The PQ is so good it is scary!

If we are "tipping-hats" here, I owe you one for bringing to my attention the flaw in my calculations regarding this (http://www.jupitermedia.com/corporate/releases/05.10.06-newjupresearch.html) study. I misunderstood the findings, and it has become clear that you "win" that one!

This whole thing between NA & I got started way back, and for my part I'm done with it. He is convinced 480p is superior to 1080i, and I'm through trying to convince him other wise. His statements are here (http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=14069)
Post # 10- "higher resolution projector...They just didn't look any better."
# 12- "everything I've read says that 480p is better than anything i...or interlaced."
#14- "Well I think the big thing is that even though 1080i has more scan lines, it still suffers from interlacing which is why 480p is preferred over 1080i."
#17- "I preferred 480p because 1080i still suffers from interlacing."
#48- "We want to see this 'major difference' between 480p and 1080i you keep talking about."
#65- "1080i was ZERO improvement in my (and most everyone else's) eyes."
I could continue, but I think you get the picture........

I guess I'm just a "hard-core" enthusiast, (and I'm in the industry) and I just got really frustrated. I let it get personal, when maybe I should just diregard. The MAIN reason I didn't just diregard is I feel an obligation to this forum and it's members to stop the misinformation. I still feel it was the right thing to do, but surely I cound have gone about it in a different (less abrasive?) manner.

To add insult to injury, I felt slighted after I made SEVERAL compliments regarding NA's setup, only to get "smashed" by him regarding mine. He has never said ONE good thing about my setup, except to tell me how "shotty" my gear is, and it seemed you were taking the same attitude. Again, I let it get personal.

I am a long-time member here, and have seen hundreds of members come and go. This site has weathered many "storms". I'm not going anywhere. I do however wish to "bury the hatchet" and move forward here and share in the exchange of knowledge available here!

Robert

GMichael
11-20-2005, 08:57 AM
I agree with the "languishing" technology part. The D-VHS (http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/features.jsp?tree=&model_id=MDL101392&itempath=&feature_id=01) came as a free gift with the purchase of the JVC SX21U LCoS projector, or believe me, I would never have paid $1000.00 for the technology. It also came with 4 free tapes (of my choice). I see High Definition DVD (or HD-VOD?) eiking out the D-VHS market. Like laserdisk, I think technology will simply leapfrog D-VHS. But, since I have the hardware, I have no problem paying $30 for 1080i titles (http://www.dvhsmovie.com/movies/trailerpark.asp). The PQ is so good it is scary!

If we are "tipping-hats" here, I owe you one for bringing to my attention the flaw in my calculations regarding this (http://www.jupitermedia.com/corporate/releases/05.10.06-newjupresearch.html) study. I misunderstood the findings, and it has become clear that you "win" that one!

This whole thing between NA & I got started way back, and for my part I'm done with it. He is convinced 480p is superior to 1080i, and I'm through trying to convince him other wise. His statements are here (http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=14069)
Post # 10- "higher resolution projector...They just didn't look any better."
# 12- "everything I've read says that 480p is better than anything i...or interlaced."
#14- "Well I think the big thing is that even though 1080i has more scan lines, it still suffers from interlacing which is why 480p is preferred over 1080i."
#17- "I preferred 480p because 1080i still suffers from interlacing."
#48- "We want to see this 'major difference' between 480p and 1080i you keep talking about."
#65- "1080i was ZERO improvement in my (and most everyone else's) eyes."
I could continue, but I think you get the picture........

I guess I'm just a "hard-core" enthusiast, (and I'm in the industry) and I just got really frustrated. I let it get personal, when maybe I should just diregard. The MAIN reason I didn't just diregard is I feel an obligation to this forum and it's members to stop the misinformation. I still feel it was the right thing to do, but surely I cound have gone about it in a different (less abrasive?) manner.

To add insult to injury, I felt slighted after I made SEVERAL compliments regarding NA's setup, only to get "smashed" by him regarding mine. He has never said ONE good thing about my setup, except to tell me how "shotty" my gear is, and it seemed you were taking the same attitude. Again, I let it get personal.

I am a long-time member here, and have seen hundreds of members come and go. This site has weathered many "storms". I'm not going anywhere. I do however wish to "bury the hatchet" and move forward here and share in the exchange of knowledge available here!

Robert

I think that what Nab was trying to say was that for "his use" 480 was best because he is only planning to use it for DVD's. He left out the "for his use" part but I knew what he was saying.

Let's all chalk it up as a misunderstanding and try to move on from here.

robert393
11-20-2005, 09:10 AM
Works for me.

The fire place is a nice touch. I still haven't decided on which room I want mine in. Do you have any sound issues with yours?

When I first viewed the room I thought "Perfect! Except for the damn Fireplace!", but to my amazement, it has turned into a REALLY NICE deal! Who would have thought it?

Sound Issues. 95% of my listening is HT. I thought "OMG, I'm going to have to treat the wood-panel walls". But, thankfully I waited to see how the room actually sounded before changing it.
For HT, their are no issues with the fireplace or panel walls. It actually sounds incredible. But, I think it is MUCH EASIER to get 5.1 or 6.1 to sound good with 1) proper equipment, 2) speaker placement.

Critical music listening is an entirely different story. Very mixed reviews on my part with this room.
1) 2-channel - Good to very good. Biggest limitation is the speakers themselves. They are Bi-Polar HT speakers. They ARE NOT pure music speakers. Bypassing Stereo and utilizing Pure Direct provides the best 2-channel results. But room reflections are minimal. Over-all I'm content.

2) 6-channel DVDA - Very good to excellent. Biggest factor is where you are seated. The large sectional in the center of the room is best seating. Full surround! Room reflections are more pronounced than 2-channel, and are certainly present, but not to the point of being distracted by them.

3) 7-channel stereo - The worst of the 3! But the "upside" is it works well for non-critical listening, and works great when we have parties! Afterall, who would actually listen to 7-channel stereo for "critical" listening? So, I guess it serves it's function.

Anyway, I hope that answered your questions. Now, I wish you would start a NEW THREAD regarding your gear & some of the room posibilities you are considering for your HT placement so we could get off this thread....it has gone in so many different directions, maybe it is time to give it a proper funeral?
I'm very interested in hearing what your room posibilities are ie, lighting, viewing distances, approximation to other parts of the house, viewing distances etc....
I agree with your earlier statement regarding having a larger monitor than the 50", but just how big can we get and still have proper viewing distances?
Robert

robert393
11-20-2005, 09:29 AM
I think that what Nab was trying to say was that for "his use" 480 was best because he is only planning to use it for DVD's. He left out the "for his use" part but I knew what he was saying.

Let's all chalk it up as a misunderstanding and try to move on from here.
Please read his quotes....that is NOT WHAT he said. He was clear in this (http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=14069&page=3&pp=25) thread. Here are some excerpts:
Post # 10- "higher resolution projector...They just didn't look any better."
# 12- "everything I've read says that 480p is better than anything i...or interlaced."
#14- "Well I think the big thing is that even though 1080i has more scan lines, it still suffers from interlacing which is why 480p is preferred over 1080i."
#17- "I preferred 480p because 1080i still suffers from interlacing."
#48- "We want to see this 'major difference' between 480p and 1080i you keep talking about."
#65- "1080i was ZERO improvement in my (and most everyone else's) eyes."
I could continue, but I think you get the picture.......

Good point though GM, I'm ready to drop it and move forward too........
Robert

N. Abstentia
11-20-2005, 01:47 PM
Gollum/Robert...news flash....nobody cares any more. Give it a rest.

Your obsession has become unhealthy.

Stereomaniac
11-21-2005, 11:43 AM
Yeah, you don't want to get confused with the facts when your mind is already made-up....lol! As for me, I would much rather deal in the realms of reality & facts.....with supporting documentation. Sorry that the ACTUAL numbers and facts are of no interest to you. As for who's right or wrong....the numbers don't lie. They are not bias. The numbers are just that what they are.....they don't take sides.
Obviously, you mistake a MEMBER THAT GIVES FACTS, AND SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION as being "smug". Too bad.
GMichael, you started this thread, and I tried to provide quality input.
Robert

No, actually it's your use of language, condescending attitude, and the continual, irritating use of all caps and exclamation points among other things that make you present yourself like a know-it-all 16 year old hopped up on Mountain Dew.

recoveryone
11-22-2005, 08:55 AM
With all this said, let me just say Amen and goodnight