Do you agree?

[SpankingVanillaice]

Many people have told me that specs are important and many says that it isnt important but do you guys think specs are imporatnt to know since it gives you accurite infos about a speaker or receiver? I can say my dad is a pro drumer and he has heard lots of speakers and he tells me many times that trust your ears and don't look at specs. He says just pretend that you don't know the specs and just listen and then decide which speakers you want or headphones you want. But I don't 100% agree with that since I really persionaly think you need to know specs to judge if a speakers is good. Since if you only trust your ear you might pick the worst speakers or headphones that doesn't have good specs at all. My dad did say that everyone hears differently and everyone has different taste on sound so that's why they are tons of speakers out there. But do you guys agree with me or my dad? My dad is a pro musician he has been to many recording studios and done lots of recording.

[poneal]

I'm not a musician but I can tell you it's hard to build a speaker by ear. Now the ear is not out of the equation but I've found that a speaker that measuers flat, has good phase in the crossover region, and impedance phase in the +/- 40 degrees sounds best. Off-axis is no less important. Since most of us listen off-axis, the speaker must be able to stay reasonably flat on-axis as well as off-axis. That's why some speakers need toe-in to sound best--they don't image well off-axis. You can tell this by walking around the room and listening. You will hear highs drop off in some places, mids muddy in others, bass boomy in some parts, etc. Now after I get the thing as flat as possibe both on and off axis, I then listen to it. If I like it for over a month, I leave the design as is. If not, I'll model in a peak or dip where I think it needs it and try that. Over and over until I get what I think sounds right. I then measure it and every time I find the one with the flattest response sounds best.

I think what your dad is saying is "don't trust the specs from manufactureres" because they fib. Who the hell is going to buy a speaker with +/- 5db? No we demand at least +/-3db--the lower the better. So sometimes they lie or stretch the truth to make the literature sound better. Cheers, Paul.

[SpankingVanillaice]

But I thought that the company who makes the speakers or headphones can't lie since if they do they get in trouble if someone finds out that the specs were false.

[poneal]

Whose to say how they measured it? Lies can be made into truth my friend :-)

[SpankingVanillaice]

Well to get to the point my dad did point out and said that use your ear to decide on what speakers sounds the best to you and he said don't worry about specs just listen to each speakers or headphones and buy the one that sounds best to you. But I don't agree with that since you need to know the specs too you know to get good speakers since as you know you could say this speaker sounds the best but the specs could be very poor.

[N. Abstentia]

Specs can be used as a general starting point ASSUMING all other things are equal. In other words, just because a $100 set of 10 watt powered computer speakers specs say it's flat and goes down to 35 hz does not mean it will sound anything like a $600 pair of bookshelves that have the exact same specs. Specs won't tell you how the speakers sound to a human.

Your ears...and more importantly common sense...should be the final deciding factor.

[SpankingVanillaice]

Well of cource I knew that if I compaired a monitor like my Edirol MA-10D to a monitor that costs twice as much of cource that the monitor that costs twice as much will sound better. Even if both says 45hz to 35kHz -2db.

[N. Abstentia]

...so....why did you ask about the specs then if you already knew the answer?

[SpankingVanillaice]

huh?? What do you mean? I never asked for specs on my Edirol MA-10D's since I already knew the specs for them. :confused:

[SpankingVanillaice]

Heres a thing I always wanted to know. What if a speaker like the JBL S26 says it goes from 48hz to 20kHz and the Edirol MA-10D says its goes from 45hz to 35kHz will the JBL S26 still make better sound even the S26 is not as wide freq as the Edirol's?

[PAT.P]

huh?? What do you mean? I never asked for specs on my Edirol MA-10D's since I already knew the specs for them. :confused: Here we go again,are you jumping to another thread without fixing your room.Flo went all the way in another of your post to try to figure your best set -up and you go and start this one.

[E-Stat]

Heres a thing I always wanted to know. What if a speaker like the JBL S26 says it goes from 48hz to 20kHz and the Edirol MA-10D says its goes from 45hz to 35kHz will the JBL S26 still make better sound even the S26 is not as wide freq as the Edirol's?
SV, there is far more to fully characterizing the performance envelope of a loudspeaker other than frequency response, regardless of the tolerances (which is responsible for your observation).

rw

[N. Abstentia]

Have you read ANY of the answers to your question??????

SPECS WILL NOT TELL YOU HOW THE SPEAKERS WILL SOUND.

YOU CANNOT TRUST THE SPECS ON A CHEAP SET OF COMPUTER SPEAKERS LIKE EDIROLS. THE SPECS ARE NOT ACCURATE. THE SPECS ARE NOT REAL WORLD. THE SPECS ARE A LIE.

[poneal]

That high of a frequency is only for harmonics. Most people don't hear over 20,000hz. I don't hear much over 13,000hz. Some feel that harmonics play an important role in the sound of music and to some extent that is true. I'm just not sure if harmonics over 20,000hz really make a difference since I can't hear that high :-). You're young so you may be able to hear a difference. Enjoy it while you can cause as you age your hearing goes. Work in a noisy environment and it goes even quicker. So to answer your question, I probably couldn't tell the difference in the super tweeter speaker whereas you may very well be able too.

[SpankingVanillaice]

SV, there is far more to fully characterizing the performance envelope of a loudspeaker other than frequency response, regardless of the tolerances (which is responsible for your observation).

rwBut does the S26 sound better than the Edirol's even the specs of Edirol's are better? Like the freq resposne.

[SpankingVanillaice]

I always beleved that freq response is the most important thing since that is what makes the speakers to be able to produce sounds to hear everything on your recording. Since I always thought the lower the number for the bass and the higher the number for the highs will result best sound. Since you can hear more of your music.

[SpankingVanillaice]

Have you read ANY of the answers to your question??????

SPECS WILL NOT TELL YOU HOW THE SPEAKERS WILL SOUND.

YOU CANNOT TRUST THE SPECS ON A CHEAP SET OF COMPUTER SPEAKERS LIKE EDIROLS. THE SPECS ARE NOT ACCURATE. THE SPECS ARE NOT REAL WORLD. THE SPECS ARE A LIE.Excuse me Japanese speakers are very accurate on how they make them and how they put the specs out I know that this is a fact. :mad:

[N. Abstentia]

But does the S26 sound better than the Edirol's even the specs of Edirol's are better? Like the freq resposne.

NO. First of all, the specs of the Edirol's are NOT better becase they are NOT accurate. They are 'enhanced' to make people like you think you are getting something that you are not. You fell for it, get over it and accept that your $100 computer speakers are $100 computer speakers.


Now, let's switch gears for a second. Since you're so hung up on what the specs look like on paper remember this...when speakers are measured, most companies mesaure them in an acoustically dead room (probably not the method that Edirol uses). Guess what...you get them home and put them on top of a computer desk. Now the freqency response is totally different. Now take them and put each one in a corner...holy crap tons more bass...the freqency response it totally different again. Now put mirrors (or any hard smooth surface) next to them. Holy crap, more treble. The frequency response changed AGAIN!??!?!


You CANNOT judge a speaker by specs alone, and you cannot trust the specs of a no-name speaker that you buy at a flea market.

[N. Abstentia]

Excuse me Japanese speakers are very accurate on how they make them and how they put the specs out I know that this is a fact. :mad:

"Japanese Speakers"?

Okay, how do you know this fact? Explain in detail.

[SpankingVanillaice]

Edirol is from Roland a company from Japan. Edirol means Edit Roland. I know how accurite thay make there speakers is since I actualy been to Japan and seeing how they make speakers and other products. I see how serious they are when they work and they rarely make mistakes on there products since they want there products to be there best. Infos about speakers and other things are been checked often to make sure they are right too. To get to the point just trust me on this I know this for sure.

[SpankingVanillaice]

NO. First of all, the specs of the Edirol's are NOT better becase they are NOT accurate. They are 'enhanced' to make people like you think you are getting something that you are not. You fell for it, get over it and accept that your $100 computer speakers are $100 computer speakers.


Now, let's switch gears for a second. Since you're so hung up on what the specs look like on paper remember this...when speakers are measured, most companies mesaure them in an acoustically dead room (probably not the method that Edirol uses). Guess what...you get them home and put them on top of a computer desk. Now the freqency response is totally different. Now take them and put each one in a corner...holy crap tons more bass...the freqency response it totally different again. Now put mirrors (or any hard smooth surface) next to them. Holy crap, more treble. The frequency response changed AGAIN!??!?!


You CANNOT judge a speaker by specs alone, and you cannot trust the specs of a no-name speaker that you buy at a flea market.Edirol monitors or Roland monitors are NOT enhanced at all thay are made to be flat as possible example as I said my Edirol MA-10D are only -2db. They are flat to me... They are not like +/- 10db LOL.......

[N. Abstentia]

Edirol monitors or Roland monitors are NOT enhanced at all thay are made to be flat as possible example as I said my Edirol MA-10D are only -2db. They are flat to me... They are not like +/- 10db LOL.......

Okay, fair enough. Just explain the RTA method you used to measure this. Otherwise, how do you know they are flat?

[N. Abstentia]

Edirol is from Roland a company from Japan. Edirol means Edit Roland. I know how accurite thay make there speakers is since I actualy been to Japan and seeing how they make speakers and other products. I see how serious they are when they work and they rarely make mistakes on there products since they want there products to be there best. Infos about speakers and other things are been checked often to make sure they are right too. To get to the point just trust me on this I know this for sure.

Okay...other than the fact that you've visited Japan...what makes you think they actually use real world methods to measure their speakers?

And you don't think speaker makers in the USA, Canada, or England are serious about making speakers? You think B&W, Paradigm, Totem, etc...are making mistakes all day long? In fact I'll bet money that the packing materials used for a set of B&W Nautilus speakers cost more to make than your $100 speakers.

So, other than the fact that 'you think' they are measured using the same methods as other speakers..what proof do you have?

[N. Abstentia]

Hey who does your Dad play drums for? Spinal Tap?

[SpankingVanillaice]

Okay...other than the fact that you've visited Japan...what makes you think they actually use real world methods to measure their speakers?

And you don't think speaker makers in the USA, Canada, or England are serious about making speakers? You think B&W, Paradigm, Totem, etc...are making mistakes all day long? In fact I'll bet money that the packing materials used for a set of B&W Nautilus speakers cost more to make than your $100 speakers.

So, other than the fact that 'you think' they are measured using the same methods as other speakers..what proof do you have?Japan uses very high tech and accurite and advance stuff to make there speakers and to measure them that is a fact for sure. There stuff is more advance then what americans use that's why I say that there speakers are accurite and the specs are accurite too. They don't make misstakes like americans attend to do that's for sure. Trust me on this. To get to the point the specs that are posted on there sites for each monitor are 100% accurite.

[SpankingVanillaice]

Not just Roland and Edirol are advance any Japanese speakers, monitors, cars, tv's, comps etc... are advance too.

[N. Abstentia]

Okay. If you say so! LOL!

Enjoy your $100 Japanese speakers.

[GMichael]

Walks in, shakes his head, and saddly leaves. :rolleyes:

[E-Stat]

But does the S26 sound better than the Edirol's even the specs of Edirol's are better? Like the freq resposne.
The specs are most likely not better. You simply cannot determine from what scarce information each manufacturer provides. Edirol claims a response down to 45 hz. Minus what? Is that the -3 db point? Is that the -6 db point? Lower still? JBL does state their cutoffs for both extremes at -3 db down. How's the upper midrange / low highs area where JBLs tend to be hot? Is that +3 db at 3k? Is it +5 db at 3k?

Even with a full graph indicating the variance, there are other important aspects to be considered with the driver, crossover, and cabinet design. You gotta hear them with live reference music.

rw

[thepogue]

bullseye....whew.....
that's going to be my nomination for the quote of the year for '05....great stuff...

Pogue (wipes tears from eyes)

Hey who does your Dad play drums for? Spinal Tap?

[thepogue]

(wipes eyes again)

Pogue




Not just Roland and Edirol are advance any Japanese speakers, monitors, cars, tv's, comps etc... are advance too.

[Bernd]

Checked in-Checked out.
I did hear rumours that the reformed Spinal Tap have a new japanese drummer who never misses a beat.Helpppppppppppppppppppp!

Bernd

[bacchanal]

There's only so much you can do with 10w and a 3.5" driver. 45hz, at what spl!? Of course if you sit them directly on your desktop and turn it into one big diaphram, I bet you could get to 20hz!

[N. Abstentia]

Looks like VanaillaIce has abandoned this thread. I wonder why?

[Florian]

Dear Forum users and Moderators!

A lot of fights have been happening in these forum, in many i took a part. But even the absolut worst fights on this forum are like a candy tree compared to the complete moronic, idiotic and closemindedness of Mr.Ice.

Please as a service to the world, erase this thread and all other threads related to his questions. We have drwan him pictures, given him advanced knowledge and yet he still sits there comparing asian and american along with german technology. I can say without hesitation that all 3 regions produce advance technology but a person who actually tries to generalize that on some 40$ speaker he owns is so incredibly idiotic that my mind hurts.

I call for action: Down with idiots!!

[thepogue]

meet Mr. Black.....Mr. Black this is Mr. Kettle.



(falls to floor, rolls around laughing)


Sorry....couldn't help meself.

Pogue