Who makes good, non-ported floor standing speakers?

[voluble]

I am currently in the market for new speakers. They will be used primarily for music with the odd movie thrown in here or there.

I'm not looking to spend more than about $1000 for the pair. I used to be in the industry and you can buy any components you want and assemble them for a heck of a lot less than that and still have an obscene mark-up. Diamonds aren't marked up as much as these things!

I also don't like bass reflex since it is basically an artificial restraint placed on engineers to keep speakers small and cheap... even though a properly sized driver array doesn't really cost that much more.

If you are one of those guys that thinks cables really affect your sound quality then don't bother answering. We used to hook speakers up with coat hangers in our listening room and nobody (Industry Audiophiles included) could ever tell the difference. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but this is the best way I know to separate people who know what they are talking about from those who don't.

[bfalls]

There are many high-end speakers which are neither small or cheap which use bass-reflex design. It sounds like you already have all the answers. I doubt anyone on this forum can help you. BTW how much are your coat-hanger speaker cables? Have you had them patented? You may find a niche in the market.

[Florian]

For you i recomend a used BOSE 901. Paper drivers, ****ty cabling, cartboard chassy and super plastic rocket launchers. Sounds really cool and you can use your coathanger to hang them over the toilett for ass cracking sounds!

Cheers

[GMichael]

Don't forget the magical pixie snot to spread on the ends of those coat hangers.

[Florian]

Oh how clumsy of me, the magic pixie snot.....but this wont match for the 901. You need ULTRA snot to get the high ass cracking sounds. ULTRA snot can be bought at 1-800-ULTRA-SNOT ....

[GMichael]

Oh how clumsy of me, the magic pixie snot.....but this wont match for the 901. You need ULTRA snot to get the high ass cracking sounds. ULTRA snot can be bought at 1-800-ULTRA-SNOT ....
Or he could just plant a baby cottonwood tree in his room. Man, this place should be on a sit-com. Who's taking notes? We'll have a show about, about "nothing!" Out with Sienfeld & Friends, in with AR.COM's. It will be the hit of the decade.

[Florian]

Audioreview Sit-com starring


Florian starring as The rich white SNOB who doesnt like black music
RGA starring as the Underdog out to seek revenge on the SNOBS
GMichael starring as the Cottontree smoking Rocker
Spanky starring as the Catloving 100% gay boy with no mind of his own

The show about Pixie Snot and ULTRA snot!!!

[Bernd]

Audioreview Sit-com starring


Florian starring as The rich white SNOB who doesnt like black music
RGA starring as the Underdog out to seek revenge on the SNOBS
GMichael starring as the Cottontree smoking Rocker
Spanky starring as the Catloving 100% gay boy with no mind of his own

The show about Pixie Snot and ULTRA snot!!!

Shall I direct?

Bernd

[Florian]

Shall I direct?

Bernd
Nope, you will starr as the PURPLE CAT, The seeker of the holy cotton tree°!!

http://ewancient.lysator.liu.se/pic/art/l/i/lindsay123/purplesakura.jpg

[Bernd]

Nope, you will starr as the PURPLE CAT, The seeker of the holy cotton tree°!!

http://ewancient.lysator.liu.se/pic/art/l/i/lindsay123/purplesakura.jpg

Miaouw!!!!!!!!! How's that?

Bernd

[Florian]

Miaouw!!!!!!!!! How's that?

Bernd
Good job, add this picture in your signature to atract followers!

[Bernd]

Good job, add this picture in your signature to atract followers!

This is getting very weird. I like it it's good. I am not afraid!

Peace

Bernd

What's playing: The Rainmakers-Flirting with the Universe

[GMichael]

Who's got the best cottontree? Well, I do of coarse. Wanna see it burn? Step on over here. Put on these gogles so your eyes don't get as burnt as the rest of you is about to. Um, uh, does anyone have a light?

[Florian]

I loaned my lighter to Spanky, but he used it all in order to smoke that green cotton tree......mmmh

[Bernd]

Who's got the best cottontree? Well, I do of coarse. Wanna see it burn? Step on over here. Put on these gogles so your eyes don't get as burnt as the rest of you is about to. Um, uh, does anyone have a light?

Magnifying Glass and the good ole B.O.T.


Bernd

[GMichael]

Magnifying Glass and the good ole B.O.T.


Bernd
No B.O.T. today. It must be one of the gone days. Here tomorrow maybe.

[GMichael]

I think it's great that RGA got second billing. He's such a charater that he gets high billing on a thread he never stepped foot into.

[rockecat]

This is what happen's when you smoke the cardboard tube off your hanger's. :eek:

[voluble]

I hate to admit it but you would have to search far and wide to find the depth of knowledge and quality of opinion found in this thread. I have truly been humbled and I thank you, my betters, for setting me straight. I am at this moment heading out the door to spend $500 on speaker cables and a $100 on a nice used set of Bose 901's.

Just one more question if you would indulge a poor engineer who once designed speakers for a fortune 5 (not 500) company. Where do I get the pixie dust? Is it even legal in all 50 states? What brand of pixie dust do you personally use that allows you to hear a difference between any two properly sized wires? Will there be other side effects to using the stuff?

Seriously guys, all of the engineers I know used to just laugh their asses off at the marketing guys who thought they could get several hundred dollars for a roll of wire. That's probably the most unethical thing I saw done. Now if it were magical pixie wire I could see charging a premium. :)

I've been out of the business for a while but the BS is just as thick as ever and I was aghast to discover that everyone is porting their enclosures now. If there is anyone who reads this forum that has a serious interest in audio that could make a good recommendation on something that doesn't use a couple of 6" drivers huffing and puffing up a chimney to try to sound like the 12" drivers musicians use then I would appreciate the help. For everyone else, I have some "special" wire I could let go for a mere $100 a foot. I will even throw in the cardboard insulation for free!

[GMichael]

Do you have the $500/each bannana plugs too?



Here, try this thread.
http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=10906

Then enjoy this one.
http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=13463

[GMichael]

I hate to admit it but you would have to search far and wide to find the depth of knowledge and quality of opinion found in this thread. I have truly been humbled and I thank you, my betters, for setting me straight. I am at this moment heading out the door to spend $500 on speaker cables and a $100 on a nice used set of Bose 901's.

Just one more question if you would indulge a poor engineer who once designed speakers for a fortune 5 (not 500) company. Where do I get the pixie dust? Is it even legal in all 50 states? What brand of pixie dust do you personally use that allows you to hear a difference between any two properly sized wires? Will there be other side effects to using the stuff?

Seriously guys, all of the engineers I know used to just laugh their asses off at the marketing guys who thought they could get several hundred dollars for a roll of wire. That's probably the most unethical thing I saw done. Now if it were magical pixie wire I could see charging a premium. :)

I've been out of the business for a while but the BS is just as thick as ever and I was aghast to discover that everyone is porting their enclosures now. If there is anyone who reads this forum that has a serious interest in audio that could make a good recommendation on something that doesn't use a couple of 6" drivers huffing and puffing up a chimney to try to sound like the 12" drivers musicians use then I would appreciate the help. For everyone else, I have some "special" wire I could let go for a mere $100 a foot. I will even throw in the cardboard insulation for free!
By the way, I worked at a fortune 5 company myself for 12 years. It's called IBM. I think they've slipped to a F10 company now. But I don't recall any speaker building companies on our list. Who was it?

Don't mind that we horse around a bit. Life is to be enjoyed.

[SlumpBuster]

I feel your pain Voluble. Half these Jimmies would blow out an O-ring if they new I wired my HT surrounds with left over Romex.

But, I think your probably off base to suggest that you can identify a well designed ported system as a "huffing and puffing," while in the same breath mocking those who differentiate cables. I doubt you could reliably identify any of these as ported in a double blind test.
http://www.bostonacoustics.com/home_product.aspx?category_id=4&product_id=108
http://signature.paradigm.com/Flash_Site/SigProductFlash/S2/S2.html

But, if you must, I'm pretty sure alot of the Dynaudio range is sealed.

Oh... Nevermind. I just realized you were looking for sealed floorstanders for under a $1000. Good luck with that endeavour.

[GMichael]

Have you looked at the Infinity Beta 50's? Not world class but they are very good and fit into your range.

[RGA]

Voluble

I sent you a PM

[voluble]

But, I think your probably off base to suggest that you can identify a well designed ported system as a "huffing and puffing," while in the same breath mocking those who differentiate cables.

I would say you are exactly right in what you are stating. Yeah, non-ported is just a preference and I'm not half as snotty as I come off. JMO but the standard against which ports are measured is whether you can't tell if they are ported... which leaves the obvious question... why put the port in to start with if your sole concern is sound? There are other reasons to port an enclosure but I don't think sound quality is really chief amongst them. Most of it is marketing, some of it is cost, some of it is the emphasis that modern "music" puts on bass and the rest is probably engineers wanting to show off.

Someone else asked which fortune 5 company I worked for... it was Matsu****a. They don't make a single speaker that I consider to be worth a damn but that is another story for another day. Needless to say, they had a lot of good test equipment. My boss was actually one of the early Lansing engineers.

If anyone has actually worked for a speaker company you will know why it is so very hard to justify parting with a lot of money for one of the things. I know this is blasphemy but they really are just glorified construction paper, baling wire and particle board.

Thanks to everyone who tried to help...

[GMichael]

Have you considered designing and building a pair on your own? There are lots of places to buy the components. Try Parts Express for one. There are also tons of websites with ideas on how to design them if you want to look at what others are doing.
Ports or no ports? Pros and cons to both. You like sealed? Nothing wrong with that. A little tighter with less boom.
Did you look at the Infinity Beta 50's. Two ten inchers, three way, in a sealed box that don't sound bad at all.
Another option is to go planner. A very different sound. The Magnepans are very good at the $1000 level.

Sorry if we (I) came off as jerks. Sometimes we are.

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=29&wt.svl=1

http://www.magnepan.com/_mmgw_c.php

[Feanor]

...

I'm not looking to spend more than about $1000 for the pair. I used to be in the industry and you can buy any components you want and assemble them for a heck of a lot less than that and still have an obscene mark-up. Diamonds aren't marked up as much as these things!

...
If I were prepared to spend $1000 for a pair of DIY speakers, (and I would if I didn't have other priorities), then this is what I'd consider.

For mid/woofer, Accuton C92-6 7" ceramic driver. With its relatively low Fs and high Qts, it's ideal for a sealed box design. Check it out here ...

http://www.madisound.com/accuton.html
The major issue with this unit is a wicked response spike at around 5kHz. You'll need to get around this with a low crossover point and a 4th order crossover design.

I'd pair this with an Accuton C23-6 1.2" ceramic tweeter which will easily take the load from a 2000Hz crossover point. See the same reference, above.

Otherwise maybe an Aurum Cantus G3si ribbon tweeter. This should work from 2000Hz too, assuming a 4th order xover. See it here ...

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=276-410
Sealed boxes are less critical to design than ported boxes too; the Accutons will go ideally in a box about .75ft^3. Don't for get to use excellent crossover components including foil inductors and film & foil capacitors. Also, use a baffle shelf compensation circuit for a decent tonal balance.

[jocko_nc]

Man, a $1000.00 DIY project could come out SWEET! There is some serious potential there. Quality drivers are surprisingly reasonable. I have to think your DIY crossover would be top-notch as compared to what you might get in a commercial unit.

www.madisound.com is a great resource. Their forums have very experienced people, you could surely find a tested and proven design from which to start. I did a project recently and was pleasantly surprised with the outcome. Bought the stuff from there.

www.partsexpress.com is great. Their DIY forum is good.

Some of the driver manufacturers will have proven DIY designs as well. www.seas.no

Ask around and the folks will be very helpful.

jocko

[RGA]

Voluble here is the link for the kit I mentioned as the sight was down http://audionotekits.espyderweb.net/ Drivers are from speicalty designs from SEAS and Foster/Tonnegan and the cabinet is no void Russian Birch.