Pioneer Receivers: VSX-1015TX vs. Elite VSX-52TX [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

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kexodusc
11-04-2005, 10:48 AM
Okay Pioneer lovers, I need your help. Long story short, there's an extremely good chance I'll be buying a new receiver in a week or two...
These two units have definitely caught my attention, and curiousity is getting the better of me. But what the hell is the difference between them aside from the cosmetics and a few goofy space age RS-232C connections that I won't ever use?

Is there anything notoriously better about the Elite receiver over the 1015TX unit? Are they infact the same chassis, platform, and componentry throughout? Salesperson was very nice, and I trust him, told me there's about a $150 difference between the units, but doesn't really know much more than. Just assumes that because "Elite" is on the front, it's better.

I'm not so sure....they're both built in Malaysia...same assembly line? Is that at all like those parallel Yamaha and Denon product lines?

Anyone know?

evil__betty
11-04-2005, 11:08 AM
kexodusc,

There is absolutly nothing different between the two with the exception that the Elite is shiny black, instead of a flat black, it says 'Elite' on it, it has a 8 channel input instead of 7 channel. The processor in both are identical, but one thing the 1015 has is that there are 3 component inputs and one out as opposed to 2 in, one out on the Elite. Oh yeah, the Elite has a 3 year warranty as opoosed to only a one year on the 1015. And, don't forget about the almost $400 (CAN) price difference.

Thats one of the reasons I bought the 1015 for myself - the other reason is that I couldn't afford the new Onkyo 803 right now. The unit kicks ass. Save the money, and get the 1015.

Cheers

kexodusc
11-04-2005, 11:13 AM
geez, is it $400 cdn difference?

I'd be buying it back in the US and bringing it home duty/tax free. That saves a bit. Must be a larger markup on the Elite too.

This is what I was lead to believe. That the older 1014TX and 52TX were 95% identical, and that the 1015TX was the "updated" version of the 1014TX.

That's aweful tempting. We'll see what happens.

vxaudio
11-04-2005, 05:13 PM
i went in to compare the 815 and 1015 at bb and they had an 815 open box from a upgrade that was bought only 3 days before and i got it for only $200. It has alot more overhead than i expected and im pretty satisfied with the purchase and dont know of any reasons why i would have liked the 1015 more (in my case i dont benefit from video switching. bc i have a hdmi on my dvd player/tv). basically 90% of the features are the same. the front optical already got some use when a friend brought over his x-box...he thought i had a flagship receiver b/c he had never seen an optical in front before. all the setup went well. the auto setup worked pretty well other than setting fronts to large and i made some changes on the midbass. the only thing that is bothering me about this unit is the main display. it shows in large letters the input sources (ie dvd/ld) and the volume in very small. what i like is for the scheme (ie dts es, or advanced game) to be shown instead and for the volume to flash large when adjusting and then hide.

Anybody know how to switch the display??/i cant find it in the manual.. basically i am happy trading off the $300 for the 815 over the 1015.....worked great in my situation at least.

Slosh
11-05-2005, 05:55 AM
Also try to see if you can find the VSX 9300 or VSX 9100.

The 9300 is the same as the Elite 56 minus the i-Link. The 9100 is the same as the Elite 52. Vanns and a few other places were selling the 9300 for $700! You may get lucky and still find one at that price.

kexodusc
11-06-2005, 03:59 AM
Thanks Slosh. Hadn't heard of either model until you mentioned them. Hard to find much info on them, Pioneer doesn't even have them on their site.
I'll keep an eye out though.

ciscokid1970
11-10-2005, 03:57 PM
Pioneer Elites are always a better value than the normals.

I have been a pioneer fan for a long time and have bought elite and regular and let me tell you on paper they may look similar and some times weigh close to each other but the elite is always better.

in this particular comparison the Elite 52TX beats the 1015tx
Better Total Harmonic Distortion
analog to digital conversion
better component selection
dolby noise reduction on any input
2 year warranty

shop on the internet...you may find price difference smaller than you think...check epinions.com

by the way I would really recommend that you step up to the VSX-56TXi
you can find it on the net for less than 999 US now.

see ya

kexodusc
11-11-2005, 06:48 AM
in this particular comparison the Elite 52TX beats the 1015tx
Better Total Harmonic Distortion
analog to digital conversion
better component selection
dolby noise reduction on any input
2 year warranty


see ya

After doing some digging I've discovered a few things....the THD figures between these two units are NOT different. The only difference is the arbitrary rating scheme Pioneer chose to use to market them (obviously through different distribution channels). The 1015 rates at 120 watts , the 52TX at 110 watts..
If you take the time to read the manuals, you'll see the 1015tx also boasts the same THD figures at the 110 watts.
Someone was nice enough to send me a few links on this very subject that even refer to the service manuals, as this question comes up quite a bit on other web forums.. Turns out the DAC's, amps etc, are all the same. There really isn't much difference. I don't know about Dolby NR, but I know enough about Dolby NR to know that's not a feature I would ever want.

The warranty seems to be the only difference aside from a few connections.

evil__betty
11-12-2005, 10:07 PM
My Pioneer rep has informed me that there is absolutly no difference in the ciritry between these two models. Often what happens is that the Elite model comes out a least a year before the 'regular' line does. When the 'regular' line updates, it often matches or exceeds the standards set by the Elite line that has been on the market for longer. There is then a period of time where the Elite and 'regular' lines are retailing at the same time for much higher prices points - with the difference being in the badging and warranty (three years total) only. Then later on, the Elite line updates and the process starts over again. This goes the same for the Elite plasmas as well. The top-end 'regular' and entry-level Elite are often more similar than they are different - but you pay dearly for that ever-so-slight difference. Pioneer trys to cover up these glaring similarities by rating the product in a way that it is different, but still the same (see kexodusc's post above).

Buy wisely.

ttskyline01
11-21-2005, 01:24 PM
I just bought the Pioneer 1015 and i must say that the 1015 is a BEAST and my Def Tech's sound a lot better on the 1015 than Yamaha 440. Although if I were to get the Yammie 1600, they would sound great on them just as well.

GMichael
11-21-2005, 01:33 PM
I just bought the Pioneer 1015 and i must say that the 1015 is a BEAST and my Def Tech's sound a lot better on the 1015 than Yamaha 440. Although if I were to get the Yammie 1600, they would sound great on them just as well.

Congrats. Enjoy the thunder.

ciscokid1970
11-21-2005, 01:44 PM
If you can try them out side by side...see or hear the difference.

All I am saying is that whey I was shopping for my receiver I brought home pioneer 914k and pioneer elite 53tx.

Both had similar specs, both had auto calibration and weighed close to each other.

But there most certainly was a difference in sound. Maybee the actual software running in it or better production control or better components...I am not sure but there most certainly was a difference to my ears.

your money do what you want.

evil__betty
11-22-2005, 08:38 AM
There is a big difference between the 914 of last year and the 1015 of this year. So to compare a those two won't give you an acurate judgement of the 1015 and the 52TX.

kexodusc
11-22-2005, 09:01 AM
You can tell the 914 is a totally different platform of reciever than the 1015 just by the physical dimensions and weight. It's probably similar to this years 915 model.

BRANDONH
11-22-2005, 11:10 AM
Okay Pioneer lovers, I need your help. Long story short, there's an extremely good chance I'll be buying a new receiver in a week or two...
These two units have definitely caught my attention, and curiousity is getting the better of me. But what the hell is the difference between them aside from the cosmetics and a few goofy space age RS-232C connections that I won't ever use?

Is there anything notoriously better about the Elite receiver over the 1015TX unit? Are they infact the same chassis, platform, and componentry throughout? Salesperson was very nice, and I trust him, told me there's about a $150 difference between the units, but doesn't really know much more than. Just assumes that because "Elite" is on the front, it's better.

I'm not so sure....they're both built in Malaysia...same assembly line? Is that at all like those parallel Yamaha and Denon product lines?

Anyone know?
They have different chassis.
And I believe the quality control is higher on the Elite Models
IMO the Elite models hold their value longer.
Below are some links for comparison:
Elite VSX-52TX
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4155_123728223_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_ ProductDetailComponent
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/282719920Brochure-VSX-54TX-VSX-52TX.pdf

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3442/123728223VSX-52TX_RearPanel.jpg

Pioneer VSX-1015TX
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4153_209686388,00.html
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/279393100VSX-1015TX-Tear-sheet.pdf

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3442/209686388VSX-1015TX-K_Rear_300.jpg

3db
11-22-2005, 11:55 AM
geez, is it $400 cdn difference?

I'd be buying it back in the US and bringing it home duty/tax free. That saves a bit. Must be a larger markup on the Elite too.

This is what I was lead to believe. That the older 1014TX and 52TX were 95% identical, and that the 1015TX was the "updated" version of the 1014TX.

That's aweful tempting. We'll see what happens.

I went into futur shop looking at the Pioneer 1015TX and the YahamaHTR5890. I knows there's 500 Cdn difference between the two of them. I'm still leaning towards the Yammy because of their bullet proof reliability. NAD would be my 1st choice if I had money.

C'mon 649 *Chuckles*

kexodusc
11-22-2005, 12:24 PM
[QUOTE=BRANDONH]They have different chassis.
And I believe the quality control is higher on the Elite Models
IMO the Elite models hold their value longer.
Below are some links for comparison:
Elite VSX-52TX
[QUOTE]

I think you're right about the resale values, and the warranties are better with Elites usually. Quality control is probably more discriminating too, but that doesn't mean the quality is any better. Just slightly more predictable. Considering these use a great deal of the same internal components, I think one can sleep tight on quality. It's not like there's been a rotten spell of Pioneer receivers lately anyway.

But the service manual is evidence enough of the chassis being the same. Aside from a few inputs being shuffled in placement, and arbitrary cosmetics.
Same dimensions, power supply, amps, transistors, decoders, weight etc....

kexodusc
11-22-2005, 12:33 PM
I went into futur shop looking at the Pioneer 1015TX and the YahamaHTR5890. I knows there's 500 Cdn difference between the two of them. I'm still leaning towards the Yammy because of their bullet proof reliability. NAD would be my 1st choice if I had money.

C'mon 649 *Chuckles*

I'm hoping to get a weekend with the 1015Tx soon...I'll compare it to my RX-V1400 which is close enough to the 5890. Then I'll make my own decision.

All early indications are that Pioneer has a real value-heavyweight here though. For someone like me who doesn't hold onto these things for more than 2 or 3 years, I'll take my chances.

3db
11-22-2005, 01:52 PM
I'm hoping to get a weekend with the 1015Tx soon...I'll compare it to my RX-V1400 which is close enough to the 5890. Then I'll make my own decision.

All early indications are that Pioneer has a real value-heavyweight here though. For someone like me who doesn't hold onto these things for more than 2 or 3 years, I'll take my chances.

What kinda speakers are You driving? Just to give me an idea? I've got PSBs image series ; T45s as my mains, 1B as my surround, 8C center channel and a subsonic5 subwoofer

Eric Z
11-22-2005, 01:56 PM
Kex- Is the Pioneer going to replace the Yamaha? If so, why? Dedicated to another set-up? Just wondering.

BRANDONH
11-23-2005, 12:30 PM
I think you're right about the resale values, and the warranties are better with Elites usually. Quality control is probably more discriminating too, but that doesn't mean the quality is any better. Just slightly more predictable. Considering these use a great deal of the same internal components, I think one can sleep tight on quality. It's not like there's been a rotten spell of Pioneer receivers lately anyway.

But the service manual is evidence enough of the chassis being the same. Aside from a few inputs being shuffled in placement, and arbitrary cosmetics.
Same dimensions, power supply, amps, transistors, decoders, weight etc....

Yea, I guess that Elite has stopped using a different chassis then the Pioneer models like they used to.
My Elite VSX-39TX (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4155_36908,00.html) for example they used an all copper chassis, copper screws and I think even copper wiring and even the power cord was extra heavy duty compared to the sister Pioneer model. And they also boasted that Elite only used the highest quality components as opposed to the Pioneer.
So if there is really no difference in the quality in todays Elite then I would see no reason now to even look at an Elite as I did in the old days, Sad.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/vgn/images/portal/cit_3442/36908Vsx39tx_big.jpg

kexodusc
11-23-2005, 01:25 PM
Think you're missing the point, BrandonH. The Elites all use different chassis than the Pioneer line with 1 exception, the 1015 TX. There's 4 other, smaller models by some 9 or 10 lbs. There's also some models in Europe, and other distribution channels that are identical to the Elite models, with different model numbers, that are exactly the same in quality and performance, but don't have the "elite" badge. Naming something "Elite" is pure marketing anyway, the proof is in the guts. You could call a 17lb receiver "Elite" all you want, doesn't make it so... Pioneer is taking a very low margin on the 1015tx model to win back market share. Seems to be creating a lot of buzz, so I'm sure they're happy. Most long-time Pioneer fanboys I know are very happy that the company is getting it's act together again and offering their higher quality products at mass market prices. They've been very aggressive the past few years. Nothing wrong with that, and certainly no indication of a reduction in quality. The whole idea of an "Elite" line is kind of stupid anyway.

Pat
11-23-2005, 02:02 PM
My Elite http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/vgn/images/portal/cit_3442/36908Vsx39tx_big.jpg
Usually I'm not too fond of gold equipment but this Pioneer looks very nice.........

Woochifer
11-23-2005, 02:10 PM
I don't know anything about these models in particular, but I know that in the past Pioneer has done some rebadging with the Elite models in that line's entry level models. Not all that different from what Onkyo does with their Integra models, or how Sony handles their ES line. Given the price point that you're looking at, I doubt that Pioneer's going to create a whole new model just for the Elite line.

If you've inspected the models you're interested in, and noticed that they look identical underneath, I would say that they probably are functionally identical with only minor differences in the details. If anything tilts in favor of the Elite models, it's with the longer warranty and their specialty dealer network, which usually does better with customer support than their mass merchandising retailers.

You'll have to report back to us on how the new receiver compares with your RX-V1400. I recently heard the VSX-74TXVi and thought its sound quality was a step up on the Denon AVR-3805 (which cost $500 less). If the rest of the Pioneer Elite lineup hints at that level of sound quality, then I'm very impressed with the strides that Pioneer has made.

BRANDONH
11-24-2005, 08:01 AM
Usually I'm not too fond of gold equipment but this Pioneer looks very nice.........

Thanks Pat
I also have a matching LD (CLD-99) and CD (PD-65) player and they do look nice lined up in the rack.
I set the unit up only as a preamp though.


Think you're missing the point, BrandonH. The Elites all use different chassis than the Pioneer line with 1 exception, the 1015 TX. There's 4 other, smaller models by some 9 or 10 lbs. There's also some models in Europe, and other distribution channels that are identical to the Elite models, with different model numbers, that are exactly the same in quality and performance, but don't have the "elite" badge. Naming something "Elite" is pure marketing anyway, the proof is in the guts. You could call a 17lb receiver "Elite" all you want, doesn't make it so... Pioneer is taking a very low margin on the 1015tx model to win back market share. Seems to be creating a lot of buzz, so I'm sure they're happy. Most long-time Pioneer fanboys I know are very happy that the company is getting it's act together again and offering their higher quality products at mass market prices. They've been very aggressive the past few years. Nothing wrong with that, and certainly no indication of a reduction in quality. The whole idea of an "Elite" line is kind of stupid anyway.

Sorry kexodusc,
I guess I did miss the point and thanks for clearing it up.
Back in the day there was a build quality difference between the two.
I did not know that they were no longer assembled in Japan like mine was. And also do not know it they still can only be sold by Elite authorized dealers only.
And I agree, if there is no real quality difference in todays Pioneer and Elite then it is kinda stupid.
Here is a fun link:
http://www.elitestereo.netfirms.com/commentary.htm

kexodusc
11-24-2005, 08:31 AM
Sorry kexodusc,
I guess I did miss the point thanks for clearing it up.
Back in the day there was a build quality difference between the two.
And I agree, if there is no real quality difference in todays Pioneer and Elite then it is kinda stupid.

Well, I don't think you're totally off though, this only applies to these few particular receivers that are just no-frills versions of the basic Elite model without the badge. The upper Elite models don't have a non-Elite equal. Other electronics components sporting the "Elite" badge are generally of significantly higher quality, so I think the old generalization still holds true for the most part. Especially DVD players. Though it's been mentioned the old 563a pioneer shared the same chipsets as the 45a universal player. I think most companies do this sort of thing at one point or another.

At least it's not as confusing as Yamaha and Denon running 2 parallel model lines, same prices and features, but different model numbers. What's the point of that?

3db
11-24-2005, 10:35 AM
Well, I don't think you're totally off though, this only applies to these few particular receivers that are just no-frills versions of the basic Elite model without the badge. The upper Elite models don't have a non-Elite equal. Other electronics components sporting the "Elite" badge are generally of significantly higher quality, so I think the old generalization still holds true for the most part. Especially DVD players. Though it's been mentioned the old 563a pioneer shared the same chipsets as the 45a universal player. I think most companies do this sort of thing at one point or another.

At least it's not as confusing as Yamaha and Denon running 2 parallel model lines, same prices and features, but different model numbers. What's the point of that?

Maybe I'm being overly cynical but i think the RXV series are sold by specialty audio stores and as a result may sell for a higher price due to dealer mark-up. And along with that, they may gain some notoriety being sold in the same store as the higher end stuff. The HTR series are more for the Futur Shops and Best Buys type of chain stores whos profit margins are smaller and made up strcitky by volume sales. Its just a guess. But either way, Yamaha is covered in both camps

kexodusc
11-24-2005, 10:49 AM
That's exactly what it is...I wonder what lines sell more, the big box models or specialt stores? Silly, but it must be worthwhile if Yamaha and Denon go through all that extra effort to do it.

Woochifer
11-25-2005, 10:07 PM
Maybe I'm being overly cynical but i think the RXV series are sold by specialty audio stores and as a result may sell for a higher price due to dealer mark-up. And along with that, they may gain some notoriety being sold in the same store as the higher end stuff. The HTR series are more for the Futur Shops and Best Buys type of chain stores whos profit margins are smaller and made up strcitky by volume sales. Its just a guess. But either way, Yamaha is covered in both camps

Actually, what it all boils down to is Yamaha wanting to expand into the mass merchandising channels without alienating their long-time specialty dealers. It's a very tricky balance to maintain, as JBL learned in the 80s when they expanded into mass merchandising chains, only to find that in the process they pissed off their specialty dealers, who dropped JBL in droves. Specialty dealers want to maintain some degree of exclusivity, and not have to directly compete with big box chains if they can help it. Once JBL opened up their distribution channels, nearly all of their specialty retailers started hunting around for other speaker companies.

Yamaha's differentiating their receiver lineup into the HTR and RX-V series is how they try to retain some degree of exclusivity with their specialty dealers, since otherwise the list prices on the equivalent HTR and RX-V models are identical. The HTR lineup only includes the entry level models plus one midlevel model. The RX-V series covers those models plus the other midlevel models and Yamaha's flagship models. In addition, the RX-V series sometimes includes a feature or two that are missing in the HTR models.

Same deal with Pioneer Elite, where they share some models with Pioneer, but the Elite line has higher level models that are sold exclusively by the Elite dealers. Onkyo does the same thing with their Integra line, as does Sony with their ES products.