RGA where is your data?

[Florian]

This is not a flame thread!


This is a quote from our pal RGA:


Last night I measred the Apogee diva through spectrum anaylsis at the listening position and achieve a low of 24hz but at realistic levels managed 39hz (95db is realistic) and the speaker compressed above 100db -- attrocious wimpy ass loudspeakers Now here goes my question.

1. What measuring device was used during your measurement?
2. What was the speaker distance?
3. Which version of the DIVA was it?
4. Who has the DIVAS (we know pretty much all)?
5. What power amlpifiers were used?
6. What crossovers where used?
7. What was the wall measurements?


I know for a FACT that RGA is lying, just as he has before about other speakers which are non Audio Note. I feel like the members of this forum deserve better, they should know the facts and the truth about their speakers.

I have here a actual measurement test conducted by Audio Vision Magazine in my home of the DIVA. As you can see when you follow this link www.apogeeclub.de/freq.jpg (http://www.apogeeclub.de/freq.jpg) the actual fall off is -1db at 23Hz measured 13feet away using a 100wpc power amp.
The max SPL is 118db using a 100wpc amplifier at 13ft distance.

Now the big and final question.

I challange you to post real world measurements of the Audio Note in your room with a fullrange signal. You shall only use a demo software so that you cannot fake the results!

[JohnMichael]

Enquiring minds want to know.

[SlumpBuster]

If calling someone a liar is not a flame, then neither is this: Appogee sucks.

[Florian]

If calling someone a liar is not a flame, then neither is this: Appogee sucks.
Your confusing people with things. Apogee cant be a liar, its a bloddy company name. Besides i have FACTS he has FICTION!

[GMichael]

Waiter! Bring me water.

[SlumpBuster]

I didn't say Apogee was a liar. I said it sucks. Your the one who calls people liars. The correct word, and the one your looking for is "wrong." Try it with me now, "RGA is wrong." Rather than, "RGA is a liar... this is not a flame." "RGA is a liar... this is not a flame" is what we call in the States "Speaking out of both sides of your mouth."

[GMichael]

Waiter, I could use that water now, better than later.

[Florian]

Ok smart guy let me try again. RGA is full of **** whos sole purpose is to advertise for hotglue speakers and put down mayot systems he cant afford. The chance that he finds a Apogee DIVA (one of the most rarest and expensive ribbon speakers) close to his place yet alone with someone who measures them for him is pretty damn slimm. Now considering that they need new ribbons by now, no matter when he bought them means he would have found someone who has a rebuild pair, which means we in the apogee forum must know him.

FACT is it cant be, Fact is he has NO data, Fact is that what he says is pure **** with the sole purpose to piss me off. And hell, its working.

So you can either get outta this thread or take sides between FACT and FICTION!!

[JohnMichael]

Waiter, I could use that water now, better than later.

How about a little scotch in that water? This could be a long one.

[Ravian]

Oh man, RGA and his devoted followers (except JM and GM) in this little thread actually have no idea what they're up against. Of course you can say I heard this or that speaker and I don't like it, but to dismiss a design ten times more sophisticated than your own speaker as inferior is really a dumbass thing to do. It's like being perfectly satisfied with your Yugo, test-driving a BMW M5 and telling the dealer it's nothing like your Yugo. Yeah, sure as hell isn't!!
Ignorent little bastards...

[GMichael]

Oh man, RGA and his devoted followers (except JM and GM) in this little thread actually have no idea what they're up against. Of course you can say I heard this or that speaker and I don't like it, but to dismiss a design ten times more sophisticated than your own speaker as inferior is really a dumbass thing to do. It's like being perfectly satisfied with your Yugo, test-driving a BMW M5 and telling the dealer it's nothing like your Yugo. Yeah, sure as hell isn't!!
Ignorent little bastards...

My Yugo would crush your BMW.

[noddin0ff]

...the horror...the horror.

[JohnMichael]

My Yugo would crush your BMW.

Only if it is equipped with the AudioNote car stereo.

[GMichael]

How about a little scotch in that water? This could be a long one.

Scotch? To put out a fire? Please JM, if my house is on fire, stay home. hahahahha

OK, waiter, scotch and water for everyone. Put it on my tab. Flo, you like? Let's all sit down and throw back a few. Got any finer tobaccos while you're at it?

[JohnMichael]

Scotch? To put out a fire? Please JM, if my house is on fire, stay home. hahahahha

OK, waiter, scotch and water for everyone. Put it on my tab. Flo, you like? Let's all sit down and throw back a few. Got any finer tobaccos while you're at it?

While this thread is ongoing we will have time to go to Cananda and get some Cuban Cohibas.

[GMichael]

Only if it is equipped with the AudioNote car stereo.

I was going to have it dropped from 2 stories onto the BMW.

[GMichael]

While this thread is ongoing we will have time to go to Cananda and get some Cuban Cohibas.

I don't think we are talking about the same thing. But what the heck. Bring 'em on.

[Florian]

No, i will stop. This guy is soo ****ing stupid and if someone wants to read his bull**** thats fine.

One movement of the bass ribbon section would tear the 6 hotglued wooden sides apart like trash blowing in the wind.

He will never be able to afford one, so he has to trash it. Screw him!

[kexodusc]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....boring!

[Florian]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....boring!
Well if he would talk pure **** about your Scanspeak speakers you would go at it too. I am sick of this ****ing lying moron.

[kexodusc]

No, i will stop. This guy is soo ****ing stupid and if someone wants to read his bull**** thats fine.

One movement of the bass ribbon section would tear the 6 hotglued wooden sides apart like trash blowing in the wind.

He will never be able to afford one, so he has to trash it. Screw him!

Hmm, the wood glue I use can hold something rediculous like 4000 lbs/sq-inch...and that's the cheap stuff...If there's a ribbon that can blow that apart it's not being used in speakers.

[Florian]

Look at the construction of an Audio Note speaker and youll see what i mean. Besides this is NOT about me trashing AudioNote, its about this moron posting bull**** with no facts at all and half of the people eat it up

[kexodusc]

Well if he would talk pure **** about your Scanspeak speakers you would go at it too. I am sick of this ****ing lying moron.
RGA has trashed just about every piece of equipment I own at one point or another...I just don't go flipping crazy over it. He's got an excuse or a complaint thought up before I even know what I'm going to say. But you've got to look past that. RGA doesn't live in the same world you and I do. He lives in a world of dragons and cold steel, with magical orbs of fire that sing the song of the siren princess.
Those of us that have heard high-end ribbons and whatever speaker he's currently promoting can make that determination for themselves.
Most of us here think you've got great speakers. I just don't know why you continue to allow RGA to get so under your skin.

[Florian]

Thanks, i dont know either. I guess its a pride thing ;-)

[SlumpBuster]

Ok smart guy let me try again. RGA is full of **** whos sole purpose is to advertise for hotglue speakers and put down mayot systems he cant afford. The chance that he finds a Apogee DIVA (one of the most rarest and expensive ribbon speakers) close to his place yet alone with someone who measures them for him is pretty damn slimm. Now considering that they need new ribbons by now, no matter when he bought them means he would have found someone who has a rebuild pair, which means we in the apogee forum must know him.

FACT is it cant be, Fact is he has NO data, Fact is that what he says is pure **** with the sole purpose to piss me off. And hell, its working.

So you can either get outta this thread or take sides between FACT and FICTION!!

Your reaction proves my point, which is a simple one. Your post is a flame. But, for you to claim that a flame is not a flame is to be as equally dishonest as you claim RGA as being.

I don't have to pick sides or defend RGA, I'm sure he is capable of that. As to ordering people out of threads, don't post publicly if you don't want to invite response from the public body. AR.com has graciously provided a private message function. As to fact vs. fiction: Why could you possibly care that someone disparages what in your words is the "one of the most rarest and expensive ribbon speakers." Hell, I'll bet you even know how many DIVAs were actually made. Whatever that number is, is precisely the maximum number of people who could possibly care what a limited production speaker from a defunct manufacturer sounds like.

Finally, you admission that the ribbons degrade provide support for the assertion that measured speaker response can differ from factory specifications. In other words, a 20 year old Apogee with worn out ribbons can... well, suck.

PS The waiter is out of water. I used the last with my Jack.

[GMichael]

Your reaction proves my point, which is a simple one. Your post is a flame. But, for you to claim that a flame is not a flame is to be as equally dishonest as you claim RGA as being.

I don't have to pick sides or defend RGA, I'm sure he is capable of that. As to ordering people out of threads, don't post publicly if you don't want to invite response from the public body. AR.com has graciously provided a private message function. As to fact vs. fiction: Why could you possibly care that someone disparages what in your words is the "one of the most rarest and expensive ribbon speakers." Hell, I'll bet you even know how many DIVAs were actually made. Whatever that number is, is precisely the maximum number of people who could possibly care what a limited production speaker from a defunct manufacturer sounds like.

Finally, you admission that the ribbons degrade provide support for the assertion that measured speaker response can differ from factory specifications. In other words, a 20 year old Apogee with worn out ribbons can... well, suck.

PS The waiter is out of water. I used the last with my Jack.

Wrong again. The waiter just brought me a new glass. Duck!

[Florian]

What knowledge do you have of Apogee's? You bloddy moron, the ribbons dont deteriate or anything. If they are hardly used then there is no problem. Tell me what happens to them with age? You have no clue about them but stand here talking like you know something, darn n00bies. :rolleyes:

[ruadmaa]

What knowledge do you have of Apogee's? You bloddy moron, the ribbons dont deteriate or anything. If they are hardly used then there is no problem. Tell me what happens to them with age? You have no clue about them but stand here talking like you know something, darn n00bies. :rolleyes:


You were very quick to cut down my Speakerlab SL7 speakers although you most likely had never even heard of the company let alone audition their speakers. All you could do was rave and slobber about how great your Scintilators were. Quite frankly, all you do on these threads is try to impress everyone with how much money you have and how simply great you are. All a bunch of crap.

[Florian]

You were very quick to cut down my Speakerlab SL7 speakers although you most likely had never even heard of the company let alone audition their speakers. All you could do was rave and slobber about how great your Scintilators were. Quite frankly, all you do on these threads is try to impress everyone with how much money you have and how simply great you are. All a bunch of crap. Wow, well i dont like your speaker. So what? Are you sad now, do you want a cookie and maybe you feel better. My friends on here know my character, i spend tons of time and recommend many speakers which are non planar, non dipole, and dont have ribbons. But you dont spend time in here, i dont see you recommending anything. Look here for real info on me and see how it says "work" and "save" ?

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=14279

Dont come walking in here trying to get a cheap shot at me for not liking your speakers. I am simply defending and correcting the lies and crap said buy one certain member whom i can beat my sweet ass doesnt like your speakers either. And on another note, you cant even spell the speaker i had. Its called a Scintilla......

To quote you on your last post:- "All a bunch of crap"

[SlumpBuster]

What knowledge do you have of Apogee's? You bloddy moron, the ribbons dont deteriate or anything. If they are hardly used then there is no problem. Tell me what happens to them with age? You have no clue about them but stand here talking like you know something, darn n00bies. :rolleyes:

See this is part of the problem. I claim no knowledge of Apogee other than to use your own words against you. But, thats fine. I said "degrade" where you assert they need to be replaced.

The other problem is that you quickly and unjustifiedly resort to name calling. You're going to win precious little converts that way. I never called you a name, but you call me a "bloody moron" and a "noobie." I could stoop that low, but I won't. I could call you a "stunted childish little runt who's only claim to fame is possession of an essoteric set of speakers financed by the bank of mommy and daddy who still lives in his parent's basement." I could do that, but I won't. Instead, I'll submit this nugget: You are bigger than your speakers, they are not a personal extension of you.

[GMichael]

See this is part of the problem. I claim no knowledge of Apogee other than to use your own words against you. But, thats fine. I said "degrade" where you assert they need to be replaced.

The other problem is that you quickly and unjustifiedly resort to name calling. You're going to win precious little converts that way. I never called you a name, but you call me a "bloody moron" and a "noobie." I could stoop that low, but I won't. I could call you a "stunted childish little runt who's only claim to fame is possession of an essoteric set of speakers financed by the bank of mommy and daddy who still lives in his parent's basement." I could do that, but I won't. Instead, I'll submit this nugget: You are bigger than your speakers, they are not a personal extension of you.

You say that you won't stoop to name calling, but clearly, you have.

[Florian]

Well as we all can see SlumpBuster is the same type as RGA. Your envious that you cant afford such a system and then talk a bunch of ****. I work for my system and have done so all my life. I have 3 small companys and dont have to put up with people like you who talk trash about products they will never be able to afford anyways.

-Flo

[Resident Loser]

...such a system, you are inferior, your equipment iz inferior und I vill not tolerate zuch talk..."

Where is Leni Riefenstahl when you need her?

Just because you have more Deutschmarks...er, excuse me Eurobux than brains and spent the equivalent of the GNP of a small third-world country on your hi-fi doesn't mean squat...you like your system and are happy with it...well, isn't THAT special...there may just be folks who think it plain 'ol sux...for any reason...reasonable or otherwise...given the virtual persona you present, get used to it...

jimHJJ(...go have a nice glass of gewurztraminer and a potato pancake will ya...)

[SlumpBuster]

Whatever gets you to sleep at night, Flo.

[Woochifer]

Well as we all can see SlumpBuster is the same type as RGA. Your envious that you cant afford such a system and then talk a bunch of ****. I work for my system and have done so all my life. I have 3 small companys and dont have to put up with people like you who talk trash about products they will never be able to afford anyways.

Ah yes, Florian in all his usual glory! Proof positive that money and expensive toys still can't buy a whiff of class, maturity, or dignity.

Notice that RGA's been sitting this one out? He's probably sipping on a cappuccino laughing his ass off over how easy a mark he's found.

[Florian]

Properbly, and thats ok too. I thought that on audioreview it is about facts when in fact it is not. Lies and false claims stand unchallanged on these forums and everyone who doesnt win the popularity contest by owning the average gets beaten down. Normal behavior from people who cant accept the simple fact that other people have better equipment. Just wait until someone doesnt buy a product because of RGA's false information only to find him owning the product many years later and cursing for ever believing those lies. I can stop writing hard cold facts and just let you all absorb the false information. After all, its not my money.

-Flo

[zapr]

.......Who cares? Anyway, Paradigm RULES!......Zapr.

[Bernd]

Properbly, and thats ok too. I thought that on audioreview it is about facts when in fact it is not. Lies and false claims stand unchallanged on these forums and everyone who doesnt win the popularity contest by owning the average gets beaten down. Normal behavior from people who cant accept the simple fact that other people have better equipment. Just wait until someone doesnt buy a product because of RGA's false information only to find him owning the product many years later and cursing for ever believing those lies. I can stop writing hard cold facts and just let you all absorb the false information. After all, its not my money.

-Flo

Flo,

It doesn't matter what anybody else thinks or says about any piece of equipment. If you know the truth and know how to get the information so can others. The world is full of followers without an original thought who peddle Bull***t by the bucket full. But they will be found out.If somebody would say that my rig is the worst thing they have ever heard and it doesnt play music well-so what. Life's too short to worry about that.It sounds good-no great-to me and many who have heard it. I know what you're trying to do and full marks for that but most people make that final decision on their own without any help. Yes guidance is great but they got to live with what they have bought.
I feel the same about untruth and pure guesswork, but that's how it is. Some people tell themselves what they want to hear.
So don't get all angry it's a waste of time.


Peace

Bernd

[zapr]

.........Who cares about your speakers or what you claim they can do! You could never impress me with your divas. If you bought a different brand of speakers then you would hype them! RGA has put down my equipment in the past but i'm with him on this one. I'm sure there is much better speakers out there. If you can't grow up then why don't you take your little football and go home!.......Zapr.

[Florian]

Yamaha rx-v 995 Denon dvm-1800 Thechnics rs-tr313 Thechnics sl-pd807
I would never dare to even talk to you about audio let alone a ****ty flat speaker that i know you wouldnt like anyway. Enjoy your setup and live a long happy audio life.

[zapr]

I would never dare to even talk to you about audio let alone a ****ty flat speaker that i know you wouldnt like anyway. Enjoy your setup and live a long happy audio life.
.......You know nothing about audio.....Zapr

[Florian]

This turns out to be quite funny. I love talking to you, and really wish to hear your thoughts about why you chose such great equipment for your setup. Why you prefer it to others and especially why your the only one responding to this old thread.

Cheers

Flo

[zapr]

This turns out to be quite funny. I love talking to you, and really wish to hear your thoughts about why you chose such great equipment for your setup. Why you prefer it to others and especially why your the only one responding to this old thread.

Cheers

Flo
........I haven't been around for the last few months as I do have other interests. After a few beers, the other day, I came back and looked for something to amuse myself and found you. I had so much fun laughing at this thread and thought I would entertain myself. Your mind was so easily changed with my last post. As for my equipment, a lot of it is old and bought what I could afford. It is tried tested and true, that's for sure. I respect the way you trashed it though. Sorry for taking so long to respond, I'll post this right away as I know you are sitting there waiting.......Zapr.

[Florian]

In other words you cant explain it. Thats ok, i will not waste my time talking to you again. Enjoy your journey.

-Florian

[zapr]

In other words you cant explain it. Thats ok, i will not waste my time talking to you again. Enjoy your journey.

-Florian
......Your mind was changed again! Why couldn't others do that? .......Zapr.

[zapr]

Properbly, and thats ok too. I thought that on audioreview it is about facts when in fact it is not. Lies and false claims stand unchallanged on these forums and everyone who doesnt win the popularity contest by owning the average gets beaten down. Normal behavior from people who cant accept the simple fact that other people have better equipment. Just wait until someone doesnt buy a product because of RGA's false information only to find him owning the product many years later and cursing for ever believing those lies. I can stop writing hard cold facts and just let you all absorb the false information. After all, its not my money.

-Flo
........Contradiction after contradiction and on and on and on! Buddy you take the cake!.....Zapr.

[FLZapped]

[center]This is not a flame thread!

[left]This is a quote from our pal RGA:

Now here goes my question.

1. What measuring device was used during your measurement?
2. What was the speaker distance?
3. Which version of the DIVA was it?
4. Who has the DIVAS (we know pretty much all)?
5. What power amlpifiers were used?
6. What crossovers where used?
7. What was the wall measurements?


[size=3][b]I know for a FACT that RGA is lying, just as he has before about other speakers which are non Audio Note. I feel like the members of this forum deserve better, they should know the facts and the truth about their speakers.

I have here a actual measurement test conducted by Audio Vision Magazine in my home of the DIVA. As you can see when you follow this link www.apogeeclub.de/freq.jpg (http://www.apogeeclub.de/freq.jpg) the actual fall off is -1db at 23Hz measured 13feet away using a 100wpc power amp.
The max SPL is 118db using a 100wpc amplifier at 13ft distance.


To start with, your link doesn't work. Second, RGA said the speakers compress above 100dB, which is different from maximum SPL. Apogees own specs are 115dB, not 118dB and that is specified with 200 watts apparently, not 100 watts, so there is a 6dB difference here somewhere.

This is a review that can still be accessed:

http://www.apogeespeakers.com/reviews/diva_hifinews_june1988.htm

-Bruce

[Pat D]

To start with, your link doesn't work. Second, RGA said the speakers compress above 100dB, which is different from maximum SPL. Apogees own specs are 115dB, not 118dB and that is specified with 200 watts apparently, not 100 watts, so there is a 6dB difference here somewhere.

This is a review that can still be accessed:

http://www.apogeespeakers.com/reviews/diva_hifinews_june1988.htm

-Bruce
I suspect that the FR was measured with a small signal such as 2.83 volts. As to maximum levels, I seriously doubt that the speaker's deep bass output can keep up with the midrange and highs for maximum peak output.

[FLZapped]

I suspect that the FR was measured with a small signal such as 2.83 volts. As to maximum levels, I seriously doubt that the speaker's deep bass output can keep up with the midrange and highs for maximum peak output.

Yeah, that's usually the standard way of doing it, so you're assesment is probably correct.

-Bruce
(Happy New Year)