Moderately priced Home Theater Receiver

[ryk]

My 6 year old Sony ES 333 Receiver for my Home Theater just went to puppy heaven. Can anyone recommend a replacement in the moderate price range, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo ??? I'm up for any and all suggestions, The Sony was GREAT before it died.....it's time for something new. I'm willing to spend around 500 or so.
I can use some help. :(

[kexodusc]

My favorite right now is the HTR-5860 or RX-V657 from Yamaha.
I'd also highly recommend this Pioneer:
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4031462

This is a no nonsense receiver with more power than you'd expect for the money and enough features for most. An equivalent Yamaha or Denon would run you a few hundred bucks more. I've played with a few in stores and can't knock it's sound quality. Sounds to me like most a/v receivers below $1000.

I suspect (and hopefully someone can confirm) that this is built on Pioneer's Elite line platform. Product quality is generally recognized to be better in the Elite line, so this is good. To be honest though, I haven't heard any knocks against a Pioneer receiver yet. And you'd save more than enough to buy a long extended warranty and still be further ahead than a Yamaha or Denon.

This coming from a guy bought a Yamaha not 2 years ago...

[Eric Z]

I highly recommend the Yamaha 5860/657! I have last years 5760 model and love it. I feel it's one of the best receivers under $500. THe MSRP is $499, but you should be able to get it at least for $400 and maybe even under that. The YPAO (auto set-up) feature is great! It's fairly easy to use as well- it does a lot and can get confusing, but overall the set-up is easy.

[Hawkeye]

Has anyone had a chance to audition the Panasonic SA-XR55 all-digital receiver? I haven't yet, but have read reviews saying at US$228 delivered it's a great bang for the buck.

[evil__betty]

My favorite right now is the HTR-5860 or RX-V657 from Yamaha.
I'd also highly recommend this Pioneer:
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4031462

This is a no nonsense receiver with more power than you'd expect for the money and enough features for most. An equivalent Yamaha or Denon would run you a few hundred bucks more. I've played with a few in stores and can't knock it's sound quality. Sounds to me like most a/v receivers below $1000.

I suspect (and hopefully someone can confirm) that this is built on Pioneer's Elite line platform. Product quality is generally recognized to be better in the Elite line, so this is good. To be honest though, I haven't heard any knocks against a Pioneer receiver yet. And you'd save more than enough to buy a long extended warranty and still be further ahead than a Yamaha or Denon.

This coming from a guy bought a Yamaha not 2 years ago...

I actually just picked one of these up for myself. What a really wanted was the new Onkyo TXSR803 but that doesn't get released until later this year - and it is $600 more. So for the time being, I put my money into the Pioneer. This receiver was 99% identical to last years Elite starting amp - the only difference was that the Elite was shiny black instead of a matt finish, said Elite on it, and had 1 extra input for multi-channel input. Oh yeah, it was also $300 more. However this year, Pioneer has improved the entry level Elite reciever so it is much more of a step up.

But like you said, I too played with it in the store and did a A-B test between the Onkyo TXSR702 and there was little difference in sound and the same for extras (THX certified, Composet to Component up conversion, etc). A neat function of that receiver is that if you only have a 5.1 system right now, and your front speakers have 4 binding posts, you can bi-amp your receiver using the un-used 7.1 speaker wires. There is a setting under the "surround back' speaker set up to allow you to either bi-amp, 2nd zone, or just have them regular.

There is better out there, but for the money that you have to spend, this amp comes very highly recommended.

[EdwardGein]

You can get a very good to excellent quality used receiver for about 1/3 of the listed retail price (including shipping) with instructions & remote on Ebay. IE, My Denon 3801 which lists for $1200 plus tax, you can get on Ebay for around $400 with shipping (sometimes as a Buy It Now) item too. What you usually don't get on Ebay with a used item is a warranty. If the seller has good feedback then you should weigh the risks. I've never been burned on anything I've bought used on Ebay.

[N. Abstentia]

The only problem with buying such an old reciever is that a modern reciver can be had brand new for nearly the same price with updated features and technology, plus a warranty. Sure it was $1200 5 years ago, but every year receviers get better and cheaper.

[EdwardGein]

The only problem with buying such an old reciever is that a modern reciver can be had brand new for nearly the same price with updated features and technology, plus a warranty. Sure it was $1200 5 years ago, but every year receviers get better and cheaper.

Total BS Keep Dreaming I'd rather have a 7.1 Denon receiver that's 5 years old that sold for $1200 new & I can buy it for $400 then a $1,000 new receiver from God knows who. Quality is still quality. Most of the new features that have been put in the last 5 years in receivers aren't
worth the extra money these companies charge for them. IE, the decibel setting systems put in. You can do as good a job manually on your own, either by your own ear or using a $30 meter reader.

[kexodusc]

Total BS
I think there's some truth in what he's saying. Looking past power specs (assuming you get enough) processing and connectivity is what you pay for in a receiver. Todays receiver's do this better for much less money than yesterday's receivers. Throw in a warranty, plus the resale value in a few years, and buying new can be every bit as good a value purchase as buying used.
Sometimes improvements year to year are small, but every 3 years or so since I've been watching there seems to be significant leaps.

[EdwardGein]

All I'm saying is I judge a receiver by sound quality. You can't really go wrong with a Denon that's in the 2805 or above series (perhaps even lower). For $400 I'm willing to take a chance on a $1200 Denon system that I'm buying used from a reputable seller over say a new Onkyo
or new Harmon Kardon $900 receiver with a warranty. Itts a matter of personal preference & your budget on hand.

[EdwardGein]

I'm assuming 7.1 receivers (I use mine as a 5.1) have been around 5 years, maybe less. What improvements have been made in terms of sound quality in a receiver in the past 5 years? The only thing I can think of, and to me its a totally useless function, is being able to use your receiver in 2 different rooms at the same time or something (yes I'm not describing this right, that's how worthless this feature is to me).

[Woochifer]

Total BS Keep Dreaming I'd rather have a 7.1 Denon receiver that's 5 years old that sold for $1200 new & I can buy it for $400 then a $1,000 new receiver from God knows who. Quality is still quality. Most of the new features that have been put in the last 5 years in receivers aren't
worth the extra money these companies charge for them. IE, the decibel setting systems put in. You can do as good a job manually on your own, either by your own ear or using a $30 meter reader.

Not so, because the connectivity and format decoding functionality have changed a lot over the last five years. If anything, the price points on midlevel receivers have held steady for the most part, even as these new features get added, so your assertion about "the extra money these companies charge for them" is not true. Moreover, the features, and power supply and decoding components that used to be reserved for higher end receivers have migrated down to the lower price points.

The other cautionary aspect of buying used is simply the risk you run of not knowing the unit's history. No idea if it was cared for or abused, if it has been reliable or if it has had certain issues crop up repeatedly. Quality is quality, but used is used, and parts can and do run a higher risk of failing with more usage.

[Woochifer]

My 6 year old Sony ES 333 Receiver for my Home Theater just went to puppy heaven. Can anyone recommend a replacement in the moderate price range, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo ??? I'm up for any and all suggestions, The Sony was GREAT before it died.....it's time for something new. I'm willing to spend around 500 or so.
I can use some help. :(

The Yamaha RX-V657 seems to be the receiver of the moment at that price point. Of course, every receiver manufacturer goes into its update cycle at different times throughout the year, so at any given time, another receiver might have an edge over the competition.

Another thing to look out for would be midlevel receivers that have recently been discontinued. The Yamaha RX-V1500 also fits that description, with its replacement model due in stores by the end of this month.

Indeed, Pioneer has been getting a lot of positive buzz as of late. Denon, Onkyo, and Marantz also make receivers in your price range. You will probably do fine with their offerings as well.

[EdwardGein]

"The other cautionary aspect of buying used is simply the risk you run of not knowing the unit's history. No idea if it was cared for or abused, if it has been reliable or if it has had certain issues crop up repeatedly. Quality is quality, but used is used, and parts can and do run a higher risk of failing with more usage.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you on that. I'm looking at it if the seller is what I consider very reliable, his description of the quality of the product is very good or better & the price. I think the odds are in my favor as long as the total price including shipping is under $475 and the retail price is/was around 3 times the price I paid. Over that amount, it is too high a gamble for me without a warranty. Everything equal, if I didn't have money restraints, I'd buy everything new & sealed. But with economic restraints, for me personally I'd rather spend $450 on a very good quality used Denon 5 year old receiver like the 3801 then spend $450 on what I consider an inferior new product/brand or blow my budget on something for $1200 new. I won't though buy a used HD TV though as psychologically I think there's too many hassles or things to go wrong- just the dynamics of having it shipped, worrying it could get damaged in shipping, the fact that too me a TV can go out at any time, etc.

[kexodusc]

I'm assuming 7.1 receivers (I use mine as a 5.1) have been around 5 years, maybe less. What improvements have been made in terms of sound quality in a receiver in the past 5 years? The only thing I can think of, and to me its a totally useless function, is being able to use your receiver in 2 different rooms at the same time or something (yes I'm not describing this right, that's how worthless this feature is to me).

Amplifier power - lighter weight, cooler, and more powerful. But to be fair, it's not terribly siginificant since huge changes in power are typically needed.

Processing has been the big thing. Better DAC's. Much better. Even old Dolby Digital formats will benefit from sounding better that way. Better setup flexibility, as well, which is critical.
Newer processing programs are helpful as well. I think 7.1 has only been widely available for 2 years now...6.1 for 3 or 4.
S-video, and component video upconversion are a big deal. So is the component video stage having adequate bandwidth for HDTV.
Better pathways for analog circuitry too (direct mode/pure direct etc).

A few years back, you'd have to buy a $1000 + receiver to get these features (and probably not all of them), now most $200-$400 receivers have them.

[vxaudio]

the 1015txk is around 500 and the 815k you can get for under 300. what advantage is 120w vs 100w and is it worth the extra money??? does anybody have either of these?

[kexodusc]

You can find the 1015 for around $400 - $450(call JandR for a price quote). The 1015 really has a good chunk more power with all channels driven available, and probably a lot more headroom that the 815.
But I don't think the power difference is all that substantial except in extreme situations. To me, the 1015 is just built on a better platform, and feels more like a higher quality receiver. I don't know for sure, but I think the grade of components is a small step up throughout.
There's a few more inputs/outputs that you might consider.

Both are getting excellent reviews everywhere though, Sound And Vision is very high on the 815 as the top budget receiver this fall.

[EdwardGein]

Each to their own but I still don't agree. In terms of actual sound quality, which is why I chose my receiver, I think that a $1200 Denon that is 5 years old still sounds better then a new $900 Receiver today. I would as a rule say that you probably can get just as good features/quality today with a $300 computer then a computer that cost $2000 5 years ago but don't think the same thing applies in terms of sound quality to an older name Brand receiver like a Denon & a lower priced newer product of an inferior brand.

[kexodusc]

Each to their own but I still don't agree. In terms of actual sound quality, which is why I chose my receiver, I think that a $1200 Denon that is 5 years old still sounds better then a new $900 Receiver today.

Sound quality wise, the biggest factor is the quality of the processors, and the pre-amp circuitry. Dedicated analog circuitry that bypasses digital circuitry is a huge advantage. But just as importantly, the speed, accuracy, and correction ability of decoder/processors translates into improved quality.
Dollar figures aren't really a good indication. With pricing trends as they have been, a $1200 receiver 5 years ago would cost maybe $800 or so today, some cases $600. Prices have really dropped. They were just over-priced for the first few years (typical of any product).
For what it's worth, when driven within their power limits, I don't find any difference in sound quality between a $1200 a/v receiver and a $300 a/v receiver 99% of the time. Receiver companies will be the first to tell you all their receivers sound about as good as each other. You pay for features and more capacity (ie: extra power) as you climb the line. This is because if you were to open up the receiver families, you'd find the smaller ones use the same parts with no frills as the larger ones. The quality doesn't improve as you go up, just the capacity. Until the entire platform changes. Even then there's a lot of common stuff. The exception is when you make huge jumps to the premium lines that companies like Denon, Pioneer, and Yamaha offer.

My last 2 upgrades were small improvements in sound quality, but both times the receivers kept getting cheaper.


I would as a rule say that you probably can get just as good features/quality today with a $300 computer then a computer that cost $2000 5 years ago but don't think the same thing applies in terms of sound quality to an older name Brand receiver like a Denon & a lower priced newer product of an inferior brand.
If you were talking strictly about integrated amps, or stereo recievers, I'd agree with you more. Processing hasn't changed much, just more power for cheaper.
Your 3801 is a good buy at $400 though. It sounds as good as the lower model Denons, but provides more power for cheaper if needed at the expense of some modern bells and whistles, some of which you might not care for.
Application is key here. 5 years ago, a 3801 would have been great for me, today I wouldn't be able to use it, too obsolete for my system.

[EdwardGein]

To kick a dead horse, in front of others, I played identical CD's & DVD's through 2 different receivers through the same speakers & settings & produced noticeable differences in sound through my $1200 Denon receiver & my $450 JVC DVD/receiver. I also produced noticeable differences in sounds between my $350 Harmon Kardon DVD player & others as well as optic cables when I did the same thing. Albeit, this might be because I'm more discriminating in what I'm hearing & can point out differences to others, whereas everything sounds the same to some people.

I honestly think, if you gave me a blindfold test, at least in regards to playing CDs, I could identify the better receiver by price/name instantly.

[kexodusc]

Hi Edward:
I think you're missing my point here...comparing a mid-level Denon receiver to a sub-entry level JVC DVD/receiver combo unit SHOULD be noticeable by just about anyone.

Compare the 3801 to the 3803, the 2803, etc, these things are so darn close it's not funny. Even the 1903's and below share so many of the design components that make sound quality. They can just make it less loud.

Receivers aren't sold by sound quality usually, just power, and connections and bells and whistles.
Most $400 - $500 integrated amps I've heard will sound better than $1000-$1200 receivers. But they don't have 120 different inputs in them, and no digital processing.