CD players with Digital Output???

[L.J.]

Are all CD players with digital out gonna produce the same quality of sound?

I know all things are made different, but since the output is digital and my AVR is doing the decoding, I'm wondering would there be a difference?

I'm currently using a RCA/MP3 cd changer. It cost about $80. I don't know if something in the $300 price range is gonna give me better sound. I could always use my 2910 but I want at least a 5 disc changer.

Thanks

[noddin0ff]

bits are bits. There won't be a quality of sound difference.

[RJW1138]

No, not all players will sound the same when used as a transport. Yes, competently designed players will all send the correct bit-perfect data, but there is still the matter of jitter, which is the accuracy of the clocking of said data. This can account for a large difference in the quality of sound.

A cheap changer is probably not going to be a great transport, but then again, spending a few hundred more on a better changer that acts as a better transport may still not improve your sound that much. I think the real question is, how happy are you with the DACs in your receiver? If you're really not happy with the sound you're getting now, then buying a better changer and still using the digital connection is probably not going to advance you very much. If you really need to improve the quality of your sound, you're probably going to want to look for a really good changer, one that has a better analog conversion/output section than the DACs in your receiver, and have it do the conversion instead of your receiver.

Your 2910 should be a decent sounding source. Have you tried hooking it up to your receiver with good analog interconnects and hearing how a decent standalone source compares to the DACs in your receiver?

[L.J.]

Your 2910 should be a decent sounding source. Have you tried hooking it up to your receiver with good analog interconnects and hearing how a decent standalone source compares to the DACs in your receiver?

Good point. I have done this, but not properly. I will to sit down tonight and do a really good comparison. Only thing that sucks about the 2910 is it's single disc. Minor inconvenience I may have to live with.

[noddin0ff]

It is my understanding that modern DAC's, even at the low end, can fully correct and compensate for potential clocking errors, so for all practical purposes jitter is a non-issue. A cheap transport is likely going to be indistinguishable from an expensive one in all but the high end when listened to with the golden ear, and I'm skeptical about that, but I wouldn't know since I'm not wealthy and don't claim to have bionic ears. The DAC is still important though for the conversion to analog.

[RJW1138]

Well, I'm not an expert on the matter either, and I'm not going to pretend to know what I don't. I'm neither a skeptic nor a believer, I have no agenda, and no biases. But from what I've heard, and given all the evidence that I already have and extrapolating out, I believe that there are considerable differences in the jitter content of various players and thus their quality as a transport, and I also believe that there is a large variation in how well different DACs from different manufacturers handle this jitter. I've heard differences between my two transports (a 25-disc changer from about 8 years ago and a budget mid-fi player from today) when simply used with the crappy DACs in my receiver, so that says quite a bit. And to boot, the newer more expensive player isn't necessarily better or worse...it's just different. So bottom line, I certainly don't believe that "for all practical purposes jitter is a non-issue", nore do I believe that all modern DACs compensate equally for it.

You may be skeptical and cynical, and believe that you don't have the golden ears necessary to hear these differences, but I'm actually very confident that if you took a moderately revealing system and fed it with two transports at differing price/performance levels, that you'd hear the difference, and so would many others. Don't knock your ability to hear. I think it could pleasantly surprise you!Anyways, I guess all I'm saying is, you don't need to be so skeptical. Sure, you can distrust things, and not believe them until you hear them, but I'm sure that under the right circumstances, you would.

Anyways, all in good debate. But yes, we definitely agree on the importance of the DAC and the analog output section of the chain.

[emaidel]

I own an Adcom GCD-600 CD changer with a digital output, to which I connected an Adcom GDA-600 D/A converter. Was there a noticeable difference? Most of the time, but not always.

The differences, mostly noticeable with classical music, particularly pieces with large choruses and a fairly big orchestra, are:

1.) Better definition of individual instruments
2.) A deeper soundstage
3.) A much wider soundstage
4.) A slightly smoother overall sound.

I also have a ridiculously expensive RCA to RCA cable called "Illuminati" which goes from the digital out of the player to the coax in on the converter, and it too makes a difference. The folks at Adcom told me that the converter was very "cable sensitive."

Most importantly though, unless the rest of your system is of extremely high caliber, it's unlikely you'll hear a lot of difference when using a separate D/A converter. That's true with a lot of equipment, as the entire system plays an important role in the overall sound - not just one component.

[nightflier]

Not that it is a small matter, but leaving jitter aside for a minute, there are substantial shortcomings in the construction of budget players that will also affect the sound. For example, just try this as a test: turn the volume all the way down when you play a cd and see how much noise is coming from the player. It may not be audible when throwing a party, but it will be when you're trying to relax to smooth jazz.

The fact is that more carfully produced players will have damping, extra weight, isolating feet, better trays, higher end jacks, and other manufacturing improvements that are all audible. Of course many of these improvements can be DIY too. Just check out any of the CD player upgrade sites on the internet. Heck, just putting a reasonably heavy book on a budget player will improve the sound.