Denon dives down to big box

[ToddL]

This is from Canada, so I can't speak for the rest of the world, but Denon is now going to appear in big box stores. Already we are seeing the results. The new DVD1920 weighs less than my sneaker, it seems suspicious. Has anyone else noticed anything odd with their product lately?

[topspeed]

When you say big box, do you mean like Costco? Denon has been available at GoodGuys for as long as I can remember. As for their product, I've got an AVR3803 and DVD2910 that both seem to work fine, although I've only had the 2910 for a month or so.

[L.J.]

When you say big box, do you mean like Costco? Denon has been available at GoodGuys for as long as I can remember. As for their product, I've got an AVR3803 and DVD2910 that both seem to work fine, although I've only had the 2910 for a month or so.

There was a Best Buy ad about 3 weeks ago that said"Denon now at Best Buy." I believe it was only refering to a 2.1 HTIB. Maybe this is what Todd is speaking of.

I've had the 2910 for about 8 months and I love it. I tried the Samsung 840 or 841 and the HK DVD22 before getting the Denon. No complaints about the HK but the Samsung was the worst player I ever owned.(For a short week)

[ToddL]

Once again this is Canadian. They have all models up to the equivalent of AVR-1905 as far as I know. This isn't to say that this is going to comprimise quality, but it could be(hopefully not) the first step to heading that way. As for the DVD players I am talking about the new 2006 models eg DVD1720 and DVD1920, I haven't noticed quality difference yet, but there is a substantial weight difference between 2005's and 2006's. And for the record DVD-2910's are very good. The Samsung comment is funny, Samsung is the "cut-corners to cut-price" company as far as I'm concerned.

[swicken]

Once again this is Canadian. They have all models up to the equivalent of AVR-1905 as far as I know. This isn't to say that this is going to comprimise quality, but it could be(hopefully not) the first step to heading that way. As for the DVD players I am talking about the new 2006 models eg DVD1720 and DVD1920, I haven't noticed quality difference yet, but there is a substantial weight difference between 2005's and 2006's. And for the record DVD-2910's are very good. The Samsung comment is funny, Samsung is the "cut-corners to cut-price" company as far as I'm concerned.


I hear kids use the new DVD1920 for waterwings in pools. I'm pretty sure theres about 98% air in that unit.

[Woochifer]

Denon has been sold through Sears for years, and Best Buy has been selling Denon through their Magnolia Home Theater ministores inside of existing Best Buy stores.

I don't see the logic of your tying product quality with where a brand gets sold. Yamaha receivers have been sold at Best Buy for the past five years, but I haven't noticed any decline in their overall product quality.

Denon's entry level DVD players have already been pretty lightweight for at least the past three model cycles. Rather than blaming where Denon sells their DVD players for declining weight or what not, you might want to track the list prices. It's not like the build quality on their entry level DVD players is that rugged to start with (I own one, so I know from experience).

[ToddL]

Quote(I don't see the logic of your tying product quality with where a brand gets sold. Yamaha receivers have been sold at Best Buy for the past five years, but I haven't noticed any decline in their overall product quality.)

Maybe I came off harsh with my original post. I just hope that Denon does not focus too much on their lower price points to satisfy the mass consumer market and forget about their mid-to-higher end products. It would be nice to see them be able to pull it off just as Yamaha is. I had no idea that Denon was already in the chain stores in the States, this is actually reassuring. I like Denon and want to see it stay that way.

[swicken]

Denon has been sold through Sears for years, and Best Buy has been selling Denon through their Magnolia Home Theater ministores inside of existing Best Buy stores.

I don't see the logic of your tying product quality with where a brand gets sold. Yamaha receivers have been sold at Best Buy for the past five years, but I haven't noticed any decline in their overall product quality.

Denon's entry level DVD players have already been pretty lightweight for at least the past three model cycles. Rather than blaming where Denon sells their DVD players for declining weight or what not, you might want to track the list prices. It's not like the build quality on their entry level DVD players is that rugged to start with (I own one, so I know from experience).

Yeah but even their higher end ones are lighter. And in comparison to last years, their entry level is absurdly light. I'd be interested to see it opened up to get a look at what is actually in it (it sure doesn't feel like much)

That said, this years 3806 is nice, just opened one today. HDMI switching and whatnot, pretty nice piece....

[MomurdA]

I was at BB the other day buying a cheapo cyberhome dvd player, and saw Denon stuff in there. So they are selling it now at BB.

[3db]

Quote(I don't see the logic of your tying product quality with where a brand gets sold. Yamaha receivers have been sold at Best Buy for the past five years, but I haven't noticed any decline in their overall product quality.)

Maybe I came off harsh with my original post. I just hope that Denon does not focus too much on their lower price points to satisfy the mass consumer market and forget about their mid-to-higher end products. It would be nice to see them be able to pull it off just as Yamaha is. I had no idea that Denon was already in the chain stores in the States, this is actually reassuring. I like Denon and want to see it stay that way.

I found the mark-up on their products to be insane especially when compared to Yamaha. And seeing that Yamaha's reliabiilty and QC is bullet proof compared to that of Denon leaves me with cold feet towards Denon. . Not gonna touch em nope nope nope

[kexodusc]

A lot of amplifiers and receivers are becoming lighter these days. Not because the manufacturer is going cheap, but because the power supply units are getting lighter and lighter. Sometimes the lighter weight ones (not really smaller, just less weight) actually do the job better and cost more.

I've noticed the chassis are getting a bit thinner. You might think this is cheap, but at the same time it probably allows for better air flow and cooling. The only thing that ever falls on my gear is the odd dust particle, so the chassis isn't that big of a concern to me, purely cosmetic.

[swicken]

A lot of amplifiers and receivers are becoming lighter these days. Not because the manufacturer is going cheap, but because the power supply units are getting lighter and lighter. Sometimes the lighter weight ones (not really smaller, just less weight) actually do the job better and cost more.

I've noticed the chassis are getting a bit thinner. You might think this is cheap, but at the same time it probably allows for better air flow and cooling. The only thing that ever falls on my gear is the odd dust particle, so the chassis isn't that big of a concern to me, purely cosmetic.

Yes, they are making things smaller and lighter, but the smaller and lighter ones also, as you said, cost more.

The average Denon price point went down $100 this year. I can't see them buying lighter more expensive power supplies then dropping the price. It's not logical business wise. Especially since their product line IS trying to appeal more to big box stores.

[kexodusc]

Yes, they are making things smaller and lighter, but the smaller and lighter ones also, as you said, cost more.

The average Denon price point went down $100 this year. I can't see them buying lighter more expensive power supplies then dropping the price. It's not logical business wise. Especially since their product line IS trying to appeal more to big box stores.

I understand where you're coming from, however, your not thinking in business terms.
Selling price is rarely determined by the units actual cost, especially for long established companies. And especially in a diluted market where there is tons of excellent competition. Usually, the only time costs factor into price is in the decision to introduce a completely new product, or when there isn't any significant competition. The price is a function of supply and demand.

A company like Denon would mass produce zillions of these things to get the cost as low as possible, and but if it's costs were still a bit higher than Harman Kardon, Pioneer, Yamaha, etc, they'd have to sell the things a bit lower than they'd like to. Often companies can't reduce their supply either because they're under pressure to keep production levels high (lower overhead usually). Don't even be surprised if many of the models are actually loss leaders with the goal of establishing brand loyalty as people upgrade over the years to more profitable models. You've seen car companies like Honda and Toyota do this for decades.

As markets mature and more competition enters, companies make less and less money off the product, and yet they have to try harder and harder. This is great for the consumer.

[Daddy3Legs]

What's the big deal? They're opening stores in a year or so......so they need to make some money to fund the investment!!!

[swicken]

What's the big deal? They're opening stores in a year or so......so they need to make some money to fund the investment!!!


You didn't even quote a source on that one. I haven't read anything about it anywhere else either.

So, until you show some proof, I'm not going to believe its happening.