Help a Newbie Choose a Subwoofer

[Justinian]

I am very new to this and need some help in choosing a subwoofer for my system. The components so far are these:

Yamaha 6.1 100W receiver
Mirage Center Channel CC-1
Mirage Omnisat Micro surround speakers x2

The room size is small to medium (15' x 12' and is fully carpeted. The house is brick stone. I neither want or need a subwoofer that will shake the walls or floors - just something that will provide clear, crisp sound without alot of booming. It will be used to play music, DVD's and TV. I have been doing lots of research and found the following subwoofers - all rated five stars or just below on this web site. They are also very inexpensive, as subwoofers go, and I don't want to spend lots of $$$. The list includes:

(1) BIC America V-1020 10" (350W) Down Firing Subwoofer - $160-$200
(2) BIC America V-815 8" Powered SW with Long Throw (150W) $139.00
(3) Acoustic Research PR808 8" (150W) - $109
(4) Velodyne VRP-1000 10" (170W) $120-$250
(5) Velodyne VX-10 !0" (150W) $100-$170

QUESTIONS:
How much watt power would I need for the smallish system I have? I am leaning heavily toward #5 - Velodyne VX-10 - 5 stars from 11 users at tomshardware.com: http://stores.tomshardware.com/rating_getprodrev.php/masterid=690869/id_type=masterid

Would this be enough power? Does anyone here have experience with it? Thanks.

[kexodusc]

Hello,

The choices you've provided give me a clue as to your budget. With subs, I'd recommend getting the biggest, most powerful one you can for your money. Sound quality harder to recognize at the lower frequencies between similar units, but insufficient power isn't. Larger subs generally offer a few more perks than smaller ones too.
I'd also suggest you stay away from BIC's subwoofers. They make great value speakers, but go cheap on the subs for some reason.
Of the choices you've provided, I think you'd be best off with at Velodyne Vx-10.

It has 100 watts and change. I recently finished building a 8", 70 watt sub that was more than enough in a 12 X 20 room. It didn't start to have problems until above 95 dB (measured at 3 meters) which is pretty loud for 2 hours of movie listening.

If I may make a recommendation -
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=300-632&DID=7

This sub isn't pretty to look at, but it is cheaper, and of higher quality construction and components than the Velodynes. It will perform much better as well.

Or:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-634

The 12" big brother. More power and even better performance. These subs are made with MDF, not cheap LDF like the Velodynes and such. This matters! Parts Express is a no-nonesense company who sells their own brand of speakers (Dayton). I have no doubt either of these would be a fantastic step up over the choices you've provided. For the money, the Daytons will be hard to beat!!!

[Justinian]

Thanks for your input. Last night I continued to do some browsing and I came upon a sale for the Mirage Omni S8 Platinum at Vann's.com. It normally sells for $349.99 and was on sale for $199.88 with free shipping. Since it is perfectly compatible with my Mirage surround and center channel speakers, I decided to buy it. I always wanted a Mirage speaker but could not afford the high prices until I found this sale. I think it was a great deal. What do you think? Here are the details:

Mirage promises a subwoofer with top quality performance and near ZERO distortion.

Amplifier Power Output: 100 Watts Continuous, 400 Watts Dynamic Peak

Woofer: 8" Polypropylene Titanium Deposit Hybrid With Semi-Elliptical Surround

Variable Low Pass Filter: 40Hz-120Hz @ 18dB/Octave

Frequency Response: 27Hz-120Hz +/- 3dB

System Type: Bass Reflex With Downward-Firing Port

Voice Coil Diameter: 1.0"

Phase Switch: 0/180 Degrees

Inputs: Low Level, Stereo High Level (Speaker Level)

Maximum Driver Excursion: 1.49" Peak-to-Peak

Size: 11.7" W x 14.6" H x 15.3" D

Weight: 29 lbs.

[kexodusc]

Not a bad way to go either. Subs don't have to match speakers at all, for future reference, though most of us with spouses can appreciate the value of them being as "matched" as possible.
I think this Mirage sub would be a significant step up over what you were looking at.
Enjoy!

[Florian]

Looks like a nice cute sub. Congrats! When you receive it and set it up, play with the phase switch. It will integrate best at either the normal phase or inverted. Good luck!

-Flo

[Justinian]

OK, now that the subwoofer is out of the way, I'd love to hear your advice about a good receiver. I had ordered a Yamaha HTR-5740, but noticed that the frequency response is just 15 - 15,000 and the ideal FR is 20 - 20,000. Since the Yamaha was out of stock, I cancelled that order so it is back to first base. What do you think of the Denon AVR-485S? It has 110 W x 6.1 @ 6 ohms and 75W @ 8 ohms. And it is on sale right now for just $223.00 + .06 shipping at www.6ave.com! (Normally sells for around $350.00 I think.) Here is a link for the specs: http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/538299009

First of all, it has 20 - 20,000 FR which I know (and I don't know much) is important for clarity of sound. Then there is the Yamaha HTR-5840 at Vann's for $229.95 with 100W x6 @8 ohms with a frequency response of 20 - 20,000 like the Denon. Here is a link:
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/details/538256685

Well, for the questions: do you think 75W on the Denon is enough power for a small-medium room w/ carpeting? Or is the Yamaha better in terms of features and 100W x 6 since they are both in the same price category? And I don't really understand what "ohms" are. Why does the Denon give 110W @ 6 ohms and only 75W @ 8 ohms? Sorry if that's a dumb question, but I am learning. Thanks again!

[kexodusc]

[FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3][COLOR=Navy] I had ordered a Yamaha HTR-5740, but noticed that the frequency response is just 15 - 15,000 and the ideal FR is 20 - 20,000. I don't know why the response is listed as such...or where you got those figures from. Most any receiver will play frequencies well below and above he 20-20,000 range. I'm guessing that was just the qualifying measurement. Are you sure it wasn't 15 to 150,000 Hz? Nothing wrong with Yamaha for home theater receivers, in fact, them and Denon are probably the two most popular brands on this forum.


Well, for the questions: do you think 75W on the Denon is enough power for a small-medium room w/ carpeting? Or is the Yamaha better in terms of features and 100W x 6 since they are both in the same price category? And I don't really understand what "ohms" are. Why does the Denon give 110W @ 6 ohms and only 75W @ 8 ohms? Sorry if that's a dumb question, but I am learning. Thanks

A quick google search about ohms, watts, and amplifiers will tell you all you need to know about that.
Ohms are measuring impedance (or resistance). Those specs assume your speaker is acting as a purely resistive device (resisting electrical current). 8 ohms is the figure you want to concern yourself with, but don't pay too much attention to the watt ratings. There's just too many clever ways of making those watt numbers higher so the newbie buyer thinks they're getting a more powerful receiver.
75 watts X 6 is plenty for your room. Chances are you won't be using more than 10 watts 99% of the time. More power is better to a point.
I'm biased towards Yamaha, been burned by Denon before so I'm not a very good impartial source for asking which brand to buy. You find many who'll argue that Yamaha's quality is 2nd to none in this price range though. Sound quality wise, to me they sound pretty much the same, though some people think they can hear differences. You can decide that for yourself. A few years back Yamaha's sounded different, but they're new models have a more Denon like sound IMO.
Pioneer's receivers are pretty good bang for the buck too, and they don't seem to have any of the quality issues some of the other less expensive brands carry with them.
I don't think you could go wrong with any of these.

[Eric Z]

kex said it well! you can't go wrong with yamaha- they make a great entry level receiver (very affordable, too). denon is a great choice, too. a lot of people say you can't go wrong with yamaha, denon, or onkyo. pioneer is usually left off the list, but i'm not sure why- maybe receivers weren't built well in the past? not sure. however, pioneer has some really good affordable entry level receivers, too.

i have some older mirage speakers (frx series) and love them- it does enough for me. i like how they're built and they can be more affordable than some other good speaker companies.

good luck and enjoy!