New Speakers from GR-Research......What would be a good name for these speakers?

[Soundideas]

New speakers, no name yet. What would you name these speakers? This site is real busy sometimes, just try it again later...... http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=21620

[N. Abstentia]

How about "Fugly"?

Or "Tip-Over Waiting to Happen"?

Or "Alon Rip-Off"?

[SlumpBuster]

"Broken Link Special"?

[Soundideas]

"Broken Link Special"?
Sometimes this link doesn't work :( ........I just tried it, its working now....... :cool:

[nightflier]

I have to agree with N.Abst., they are not the most attractive speakers. But this is not so much because of the design as the colors. I would have suggested a beech veneer instead.

I also wonder about this speaker being overkill with too many drivers. My first thought is that it would make for a very confused speaker, one with little pinpoint accuracy.

For a name, I would stick to a model number to start. D555 would be a decent name, I suppose. The four digits and three fives remind one of complexity, which is definitely the first thing that comes to mind when I see the speaker. I don't know how commercially viable such a speaker would be.

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents...

[pelly3s]

i never understood speakers with so many drivers. I think everything can be done right with a good pair of two ways. Its like the speakers with a colum of tweeters where most of them are way about ear level and they are completely useless

[Florian]

How about "A-Phily" or "SoundExPerience"

afterall, its about the sound and not the looks. If there would be a speaker out there that would sound better than my fullrange panels and would be cute i would own it already.

Sound first, who cares about the looks. Its not a cute B&W or Paradigm box!

-Flo

[kexodusc]

i never understood speakers with so many drivers. I think everything can be done right with a good pair of two ways. Its like the speakers with a colum of tweeters where most of them are way about ear level and they are completely useless

Those tweeters in the line arrays (those column speakers you mentioned) are anything but useless. You might be interested to know that most line arrays ARE 2-way speakers.

Some benefits of the line array are:
Minimizes floor and ceiling reflections (similar to MTM array)
Maintains a wide listening area with little sound intensity fall off vs. distance (smaller drivers are much better at producing wide dispersions by nature, better imaging and soundstage)
Exceptional dynamic range and linearity (dynamic range often exceeding 120 dB)
Higher SPL
Reduces distortion as power is dispersed among several drivers
Low moving mass for higher speed and superior transient attack

Line arrays are NOT easy to build or cheap. But the performance gains can be incredible.

[PAT.P]

How about "A-Phily" or "SoundExPerience"

afterall, its about the sound and not the looks. If there would be a speaker out there that would sound better than my fullrange panels and would be cute i would own it already.

Sound first, who cares about the looks. Its not a cute B&W or Paradigm box!

-Flo
Flo thought you were in the steel cage? Not a single thread on your behalf?

[N. Abstentia]

The only bad thing about those speakers is that they sound like crap until you coat them with Soundideas's magical pixie snot contact enhancer that he loves to sell.

[Soundideas]

The only bad thing about those speakers is that they sound like crap until you coat them with Soundideas's magical pixie snot contact enhancer that he loves so much
Hey, if this QuickSilver stuff will make my crapy :eek: SDAT speakers sound better then it will make any :eek: speakers sound better..........

[N. Abstentia]

Yes I'm sure it will work exactly the same on your $35 flea market specials as it does on some $14,000 Wilsons :rolleyes:

[yogo]

Hey, if this QuickSilver stuff will make my crapy :eek: SDAT speakers sound better then it will make any :eek: speakers sound better..........


So you're admitting that SDAT is crap?
Does that apply to everything you recommend?

Lord help me, there was an opening and I had to take it.

[pelly3s]

kexodus - i understand line arrays but the use of a line array is also to aim the sound to the listening area, not 6 and a half feet in the air. You figure the average line array broken down into its simplest form of just a tweeter and a woofer they have a vertical dispersion of 10 to 15 degrees 15 being rather wide for use in an array formatt. That being said the drivers on the top of a 6 foot tall speaker and the ones also on the bottom of it are useless unless the colum was raised and bent into a J. Figure at 6 feet high with a 10 degree vertical dispersion you would have to be somewhere near 17 feet away (when seated) before it is actually heard, which in terms will give you better coverage in a large room but also is useless in average listening conditions because that is either a distance beyond where one would be listening from or that you would be at the point where all sections of the arrary are summing and if the company did not design the crossover properly to slightly shift the phase of each section there will be cancellation. That is why on a large format line array the boxes are aimed and got from a long throw boxes on top to short throw on the bottom so the boxes do not interact with each other outside of their coverage area. each section is supposed to couple with the one below it and the frequencies are to be out of phase and cancel out to tighten the dispersion patter but with a straight colum often times when each section arrives at listening position they are not exactly 180 degrees out of phase and cause destructive cancelation.

I understand all the advantages about a line array but it isnt always the correct design, and I feel that in a home situation it is not a useful design

[Soundideas]

So you're admitting that SDAT is crap?
Does that apply to everything you recommend?

Lord help me, there was an opening and I had to take it.
No, my SDAT speakers do not sound like :eek: CRAP, I was just joking about that :D It seems like N. Abstentia just enjoys himself by putting down anything I post here and here's never tried any of the products that I posted here yet :D

[kexodusc]

I understand all the advantages about a line array but it isnt always the correct design, and I feel that in a home situation it is not a useful design

Well I can't say I disagree, but I think we're getting into specifics now. In my home, a line array might not be great if it was 6 feet tall, but there's plenty of people out there that use them in their homes because that's what works for them. I'm assuming larger rooms. I've only ever heard one line array speaker, and probably from a distance of 8-10 feet. They sounded fantastic. I don't think they were 6 feet tall though, shorter than I am. Conventional? Maybe not, but effective.

I'm not an authority on line arrays at all, haven't studied them much beyond the initial concepts, but as someone who has built a few told me, the phase problems are actually addressed in the design if done properly. The simplest explanation I was given when I questioned off-axis response and phase issues was that one line array speaker works with itself along the vertical plane somewhat similarly to 2 stereo speakers making an image in the horizontal plane. This is very oversimplified, and I haven't really taken the time to think about the physics involved. For me, there's too much complexity to bother at this point. I trust people wouldn't waste their time and effort on a design that was so fundamentally flawed for the home.

But again, personal tastes and application come into play.

[GMichael]

Hey, if this QuickSilver stuff will make my crapy :eek: SDAT speakers sound better then it will make any :eek: speakers sound better..........

Maybe I'm mixing one crappy product up with another but.....
I though the QuickSilver stuff (pixy snot) was supposed to make my picture brighter. Does it also work to make my speakers bigger and stronger? What if I put this on my, my, uh, woofer?

[kexodusc]

Maybe I'm mixing one crappy product up with another but.....
I though the QuickSilver stuff (pixy snot) was supposed to make my picture brighter. Does it also work to make my speakers bigger and stronger? What if I put this on my, my, uh, woofer?
BWA HA HA...Oh man, stop it..this is too much...BWA HA HA!!!
Guaranteed to add milimeters to your long-excursion...
(every bit helps)

BWA HA HA

[GMichael]

BWA HA HA...Oh man, stop it..this is too much...BWA HA HA!!!
Guaranteed to add milimeters to your long-excursion...
(every bit helps)

BWA HA HA

I would assume that for this application I should use the OEM pixy snot. My home made stuff might burn a little. And my, um... woofer, is very sensitive.

[pelly3s]

Well I can't say I disagree, but I think we're getting into specifics now. In my home, a line array might not be great if it was 6 feet tall, but there's plenty of people out there that use them in their homes because that's what works for them. I'm assuming larger rooms. I've only ever heard one line array speaker, and probably from a distance of 8-10 feet. They sounded fantastic. I don't think they were 6 feet tall though, shorter than I am. Conventional? Maybe not, but effective.

I'm not an authority on line arrays at all, haven't studied them much beyond the initial concepts, but as someone who has built a few told me, the phase problems are actually addressed in the design if done properly. The simplest explanation I was given when I questioned off-axis response and phase issues was that one line array speaker works with itself along the vertical plane somewhat similarly to 2 stereo speakers making an image in the horizontal plane. This is very oversimplified, and I haven't really taken the time to think about the physics involved. For me, there's too much complexity to bother at this point. I trust people wouldn't waste their time and effort on a design that was so fundamentally flawed for the home.

But again, personal tastes and application come into play.

Ok so we are good with the application thing lol. I guess there is a time and place for everything. I am sure not everyone would like my speakers each pair I own for a different reason and taste is the biggest thing in audio

[Soundideas]

Well I can't say I disagree, but I think we're getting into specifics now. In my home, a line array might not be great if it was 6 feet tall, but there's plenty of people out there that use them in their homes because that's what works for them. I'm assuming larger rooms. I've only ever heard one line array speaker, and probably from a distance of 8-10 feet. They sounded fantastic. I don't think they were 6 feet tall though, shorter than I am. Conventional? Maybe not, but effective.

I'm not an authority on line arrays at all, haven't studied them much beyond the initial concepts, but as someone who has built a few told me, the phase problems are actually addressed in the design if done properly. The simplest explanation I was given when I questioned off-axis response and phase issues was that one line array speaker works with itself along the vertical plane somewhat similarly to 2 stereo speakers making an image in the horizontal plane. This is very oversimplified, and I haven't really taken the time to think about the physics involved. For me, there's too much complexity to bother at this point. I trust people wouldn't waste their time and effort on a design that was so fundamentally flawed for the home.

But again, personal tastes and application come into play. Here's a forum where they talk more about line source speaker discussions (Array Speakers)..... http://www.audioroundtable.com This link takes you to the :eek: End of the Internet :D ..... http://www.audioroundtable.com/ArraySpeakers.html

[Florian]

I dont know the GR reasearch speakers but my speakers are a dipole, linesource, and a planar all in one :p

For me there is way of getting closer to a life image size in your own home. Plus all the other advanatges listed almost at the top.

-Flo

[E-Stat]

I also wonder about this speaker being overkill with too many drivers. My first thought is that it would make for a very confused speaker, one with little pinpoint accuracy.
While I can't speak for the GRs, I assure you these Nolas do not suffer from a lack of pinpoint accuracy. I've heard a particularly nicely driven pair on many an occasion.

http://www.nolaspeakers.com/egr.jpg

rw

[E-Stat]

i never understood speakers with so many drivers. I think everything can be done right with a good pair of two ways.
Tall arrays place you closer to the stage in perspective and create a more lifelike rendition of image size, IMHO. Say row G rather than Y.

After living with seven foot tall full range stats for twenty odd years, I found that a single pair of New Advents in my vintage garage system shrunk the image too much. Bought a second pair and run them stacked in a quasi D'Appolito configuration. (no tweeters on the ceiling!).

rw

[nightflier]

Granted, they probably sound fantastic, and all those drivers probably contribute to that sound, but the real question is what's the point of diminishing returns when adding drivers? For a home-built speaker, you have to ask yourself that question as each driver costs money not just by itself, but also to incorporate it into the design. How much overlap does each driver have with the driver right next to it? Unlike with Nola where money is apparently no object, Soundideas has to consider what his costs will be if he wants to sell these speakers (which is why I presume he was asking for a name in the first place).

From just looking at the pictures, and not having heard the speakers, my first gut reaction was that the looks of these speakers would make them hard to sell. Some things like the wood not being attractive, are easy to fix. But the number of drivers has to be be in line with the sound quality. There are still a lot of drivers on the front and sides that a potential buyer will not understand the use of. My guess is that the aluminum-and-plastic-BB-CC-GG-Bose-loving crowd is not going to appreciate the look and size. Likewise the mid-fi / hi-fi crowd will question the complexity since they tend to prefer simplicity.

But again, these are just gut reactions from seing the pics and never having heard the speakers, which may also be the reaction of a potential buyer seeing these speakers in an add or online.

[Florian]

You raise a good point, but this system will run for enough money that the people who have the ability will listen before they buy. To many, looks are not important especially to those seeking the higher end in high end. I took all my electronics and cables with me when auditioning the DIVAS. I checked the seriel numbers, production date, import papers and the new ribbons. I spent many hrs and days on research before droping the aprox. 10,000$ (trade in plus cash) on it. I think they look great, but considering their placment criteria and size they will not apeal to the average listener. I think the linearray is similar, and the people who seek it and can afford it wont care too much about the looks.

-Flo

[topspeed]

I think the linearray is similar, and the people who seek it and can afford it wont care too much about the looks.
-Flo Or they're single ;).

Nightflier,
"Granola" is so blatantly obvious, I can't believe no one else thought of that! Kudos, brother. We have winner!

BTW, can we all stop feeding the troll now?

[Florian]

Oh yes, or single. How could i forget that :p
What troll?

-Flo

[topspeed]

I hope you're kidding about the "what troll" question. BTW, props on your albeit long winded post in the Bose Bashing thread (you know, by the other new troll). One of the best you've ever made.

[Florian]

It was a joke :p

Thanks, i will try to be more "open minded" and "fair" in future posts. Also i will stay away from the political section and the steel cage. Those places are not for me.

-Flo

[E-Stat]

Granted, they probably sound fantastic, and all those drivers probably contribute to that sound, but the real question is what's the point of diminishing returns when adding drivers?
Enormous dynamic capability, clarity and image size. Anything but a "confused" speaker. They make the walls disappear when driven properly.


For a home-built speaker, you have to ask yourself that question as each driver costs money not just by itself, but also to incorporate it into the design.
There is certainly nothing wrong with practical compromise designs. Most folks don't spend $120k on speakers.

rw

[Soundideas]

These new speakers from GR-Research was one of the best sounding at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest.......Look on Page 8 >>>> http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=21620

[Soundideas]

These speakers are not a line source, they are (point source). The open baffles give you a more live-like sound that box speakers don't even come close to. Danny Richie, the owner of GR-Research tells us more about this in this link here..... http://www.hometheatertalk.com/httalk/viewtopic.php?t=15128

[Florian]

Well i agree, but it also qualifies as a linesource because drives the room over the full height. Much like my DIVAS, i am sure they are wonderfull!

-Flo

PS: I like the box quote.