Home theater setup help

[ryjam282]

Hey guys, here is a layout of my new living room and wanted to get your guys opinions on my 7.1 setup please. Take a look and let me know what you think, comment, concerns, etc. Thanks in advance.

The room has vaulted ceilings with the stairs bannister on the left side.

Surround sound system is a Yamaha HTR-5790 with 7.1 (infinty) surrounds
TV is a 57" Hitachi Widescreen 57uwx20b

[paul_pci]

If it were me, I'd go with the 5.1 setup with the two rears right behind the couch. The two lateral speakers for the 7.1 setup seems like they'd be awkwardly positioned relative to the listening position, making for a potentially weird soundfield. I'm sure others who have a 7.1 set up can give you further insight.

[ryjam282]

I appreciate the response but I am really hoping to go 7.1 here. I can probably move the Love seat forward (this is where 99% of the sitting is happening) and make more room behind it for the rear's. Anyone else have anything to add?

[paul_pci]

Of course you can always experiment with the 7.1 setup, but it just seems to me that your 3' behind the listening position where, typically, the 6th and 7th speaker are positioned seems inadequate space and potential overkill for the environment. Others have reported dramatic differences between 5.1 and 7.1, but I forget off hand what their spacial dimensions were. Another member, Woochifer, has cool diagrams he usually inserts to threads such as this detailing when and how to go with 5.1 vs. 7.1. If money is a concern, I'd start with 5.1 and see how you like that and go from there.

[GMichael]

I believe that your set-up, although not optimum, will sound ok. It would be better if your surrounds were both the same distance from your listening area. And the rears are a little close. But that Yammie has the auto set-up and should balance things out for the most part.

[GMichael]

I believe that your set-up, although not optimum, will sound ok. It would be better if your surrounds were both the same distance from your listening area. And the rears are a little close. But that Yammie has the auto set-up and should balance things out for the most part.

A few observations I've made on the Yammie's auto set-up.

If you put the mic directly on the love seat it will pick up sound that is a little muffled. So the Yammie will compensate by giving you a very bright, thin sound.
If you use a tripod as Yamaha suggests, the mic will pick up an unusually bright sound and compensate by giving you a warm or muddy sound.
You can manually change either of these set-up as you like, but...
I found the best results from using the tripod and wrapping a scarf around it a few inches below the mic. I know it sounds crazy but it worked.

[ryjam282]

Thanks a lot, I will try that.

[ryjam282]

Anyone else have any input?

Is the 3 ft space behind the main listening area for the rear surrounds enough room, generally speaking, for rear surrounds? Also, with the side surrounds, as long as they are at 90 degrees to the listening position that is OK also right? I will try to move them a bit behind it of course but I want to make sure I am not too close to the rear surrounds as I do want to make sure there is a distinction between the 2 sound fields. Anyone????

[Geoffcin]

Anyone else have any input?

Is the 3 ft space behind the main listening area for the rear surrounds enough room, generally speaking, for rear surrounds? Also, with the side surrounds, as long as they are at 90 degrees to the listening position that is OK also right? I will try to move them a bit behind it of course but I want to make sure I am not too close to the rear surrounds as I do want to make sure there is a distinction between the 2 sound fields. Anyone????

I would recommend a dipole speaker for the rear surrounds to diffuse the soundfield. I have installed direct radiators in my 7.1 system, but they are in-wall mounted. Right now I'm using Axiom QS8's for my rear surrounds, and the more diffuse soundfield I find BETTER for the rear surrounds.

The side surrounds can be direct radiating, but you will have to adjust the volume & delay amount for the unequal distance. This is NOT a problem with a reciever like you have.

[kexodusc]

I would recommend a dipole speaker for the rear surrounds to diffuse the soundfield. I have installed direct radiators in my 7.1 system, but they are in-wall mounted. Right now I'm using Axiom QS8's for my rear surrounds, and the more diffuse soundfield I find BETTER for the rear surrounds.

The side surrounds can be direct radiating, but you will have to adjust the volume & delay amount for the unequal distance. This is NOT a problem with a reciever like you have.

The plot thickens...methinks Geoffcin's been holding back a bit of info regarding the goings-on in his Home Theater...I'm guessing Axiom has converted another...

Most notably, Geoffcin is the first AR.com-er I'm aware of who is using the diffusing surround speakers in the rear position. I've mentioned that this was the method I preferred if you are using non-direct radiating speakers in the system, even posted some articles here where others shared this preference in tests, but most people thought I was crazy...

Ryjam282:
If dipoles, bipoles, tripoles, or dodecapoles aren't in the picture, then the trick to getting the rear speakers to work on the back wall will be in how far they're separated. Wider is better to a point, but as you get closer to the rear wall, you'll want to space the speakers closer together. I'd say 3 - 4 feet apart would be more appropriate for your setup based on the picture you provided. 7 feet is probably going to be too much with only 3 feet between you and the rear wall.
The problem you'll run into is being closer to one than the other if you aren't in the sweet spot always. The further they are apart, the more of a tilt you'll notice. This will at times defeat the rear surround field effect, instead blending in too much with the side surrounds.
Not the end of the world.
The flipside is if they get too close together you can at times notice the sound collapsing to the rear a bit too much. Some experimentation may be required here.

I've setup a few 7.1's for myself and others now, and generally we've experienced better results with the rear speakers placed closer than the front main speakers. You're kind of following the equilateral triangle rule you would follow in stereo speaker placement...depending of course on the dispersion characteristics of your speakers.

This is a great link with some pictures and some more ideas (scroll near the bottom):
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/THXSelectUltracertificatio2.php

You'll see they suggest closer rear speaker placement as the distance to the back wall decreases...

Good luck.

[Geoffcin]

The plot thickens...methinks Geoffcin's been holding back a bit of info regarding the goings-on in his Home Theater...I'm guessing Axiom has converted another...

Trying to stuff the cat back into the bag.

I woudn't call my self an Axiom "convert" but I was so darn curious about Axiom that when the possibility presented itself I couldn't turn down a chance to try them out. If you want to know what I got from them just PM me.



Most notably, Geoffcin is the first AR.com-er I'm aware of who is using the diffusing surround speakers in the rear position. I've mentioned that this was the method I preferred if you are using non-direct radiating speakers in the system, even posted some articles here where others shared this preference in tests, but most people thought I was crazy...

Actually we thought you were crazy long before that. ;)

As to multipole speakers; Like the classic Monkeys song says; "I'm a beliver" My CSW S300's first got me going on the multipole thang, even though I evetually left them set for direct radiating. The QS8's are simply the bomb for the rear surrounds.



This is a great link with some pictures and some more ideas (scroll near the bottom):
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/THXSelectUltracertificatio2.php

You'll see they suggest closer rear speaker placement as the distance to the back wall decreases...

Good luck.

You know, I look at that diagram on Audioholics and I think it's not the best directions, at least from what I've found.

One; The mains are shown way too close to the walls. Your going to get some nasty side reflections if your not using some serious wall treatments if you follow that diagram. Better to put the speakers a little closer together and have a cleaner front presentation, than try to use up all the front wall and get some serious side wall interactions.

Two; On the second diagram I don't know where there coming from putting two speakers side-by-side in the back. There's going to be some serious combing issues if you do that. If you want 6.1 music better to leave them at least 3ft apart. If they are two close to your head, then it's much better to use a multipole speaker than to try to compromise the setup much futher than that.

As to YOUR suggestions KEXO; A hearty AGREE from me there. Closer rear surrounds are better, at least from what I've found. I run my mains about 8.5' across on axis, and the rears are only 6'. Even 3' - 5' across for the rear surrounds should be more than enough.

[kexodusc]

Well maybe the link wasn't great...but it did have pretty pictures.

[Geoffcin]

Well maybe the link wasn't great...but it did have pretty pictures.

Straight from the THX labs. No wonder it took them three movies to make one that was decent....

[ryjam282]

Thanks a lot guys, here is another question. With the side surrounds, generally, I should have them pointing at each other correct? Or pointing at each other and slightly forward? And, what about the rear surrounds, firing straight ahead or down towards the listening position or slightly angled in and down or what? What is the general direction to point them?

[kexodusc]

Thanks a lot guys, here is another question. With the side surrounds, generally, I should have them pointing at each other correct? Or pointing at each other and slightly forward? And, what about the rear surrounds, firing straight ahead or down towards the listening position or slightly angled in and down or what? What is the general direction to point them?

You can point the side surrounds straight at each other OR pointing slightly forward, I don't think you're getting into the subtle nuances now. Try both, see what you like best. I find just angling them straight makes it a bit more diffuse and less "direct" than pointing straight at your ear. You might find a 3rd alternative to be a bit better for you.
Consider angling the speakers downward towards your head too. Off-axis response on many speakers can really drop at the top end, and you could lose a bit of detail on the arrows and laser beams that are shooting past your head. I angle mine down a bit, so the tweeter points just below the opposite speaker.

For the rears, since you're closer to them, I don't anticipate any benefit to using toe-in on those. Point'em straight ahead. I don't angle mine down, they rest on stands and shoot straight ahead. In one setup I did though, mounting them on walls and shooting them straight ahead wasn't good. Too much sound was reflecting off the front wall and rear channels were just not as noticeable as we felt they should be. Angling them donwards helped a lot. I think we pointed them at the TV to just overshoot the head of the listeners. Again, you'll have to experiment to find what's best in your setup.

[ryjam282]

Excellent advice, thanks.

The rear surrounds are about 3 ft above the listening area and on walls. Same with the side surrounds. I will try those options you mentioned.