How much have you spent between...

[bturk667]

the interconnects and the speaker cables you use in your system? Was what they brought to the table worth it?

I have spent @ $500. And they are worth every penny!!!

[Bill L]

I HOPE YOU'RE READY FOR THE FLAMES! Because as soon as the scientists here finally figure out how to post they won't be able to resist that one!

[bturk667]

This is a dicussion forum is it not? If what you wrote about the scientists is true, well then, how smart could they be if they can't figure how to post here?

[FLZapped]

the interconnects and the speaker cables you use in your system? Was what they brought to the table worth it?

I have spent @ $500. And they are worth every penny!!!

I've built most of mine, so the material cost is pretty low.....now if you factor in labor at $20/hour.....

As for the second question. Of course, my system didn't work without them......

-Bruce

[pctower]

This is a dicussion forum is it not? If what you wrote about the scientists is true, well then, how smart could they be if they can't figure how to post here?

Wouldn't it be ironic if the scientists couldn't figure out how to post here and this board became a haven for the subjectivists (not that in actual practice the two terms are necessarily mutually exclusive).

[Bobby Blacklight]

the interconnects and the speaker cables you use in your system? Was what they brought to the table worth it?

I have spent @ $500. And they are worth every penny!!!

Never did a comparison. I have spent a decent amount mainly because of the complexity. I use a mix of Monsters old Diskwasher Goldens some Rat Shack goldens ect. I don't use any of the original garbage you get with the gear for free. I have actually have had the original OEM stuff fail. One went intermitenet the other open. I won't buy the "expensive" stuff but I am happy with the lower tier cables which are considerably better, construction wise than the freebees. I run balanced and unbalanced in a triamped system so I have a good amount of what would be considered Pro interconnects.Well built XLR'S are not cheap by any means. So when you add the cables for my HT set-up and then the cabling in the Triamped set-up it's a lot of cables. Has to be close to your $500 mark. I would go broke trying to use the more expensive audiophile cables. Not sure of the benefit. I just looked for good quality and reasonable prices. Too many other variables in my system to worry about besides cables. When I set-up my vinly rig with just a couple of interconnects I might give the cable question a try but for now I am not worried.

[Beckman]

Heres what I think:

Speaker cables- 12 or 14 gage zip works fine, other designs affect the sound by attenuating the signal for certain frequency ranges creating the illusion of a brighter or warmer sounding cable when all they are really doing is turning down the bass or the treble. 12 or 14 gage zip produces the flatest frequency response in the audible range of frequencies (if you don't believe me hook up your $500 cables to a network analyzer and see for yourself).

Power Cables- All stereo components have DC power supplies in them so clean power is not really neccessary, in fact many electronic devices will work with a square wave AC power source.

Interconnects- Video cables can affect picture qulity do to the fact that RF noise is on the same magnitude as a video signal (10-100MHz) and video cables that are poorly shielded show. As for component interconnects, I use a $30 pair of interconnects for my CD player and they don't seem to do much more than provide a strong connection.

These are "my" opinions and reflect my somewhat limited knowledge of electronics.

[poneal]

I use the cheap RCA plugs that came with the equipment. Been using them for 20+ years. Yeah, I bought one of them $100 interconnects and didn't notice any difference. Lesson learned ---> don't be fooled by marketing tactics.

[bturk667]

It would be side splitting funny! Long live SUBJECTIVITY!!!

[F1]

Well, let's see,
$20 for speaker cable
$20 for DVD component
$20 for digital coax
$20 for multiple power outlet
Perform as good as cabling costing 10x more.... off-course this is my claim.

[Norm Strong]

I just went and counted them. I have 11 stereo interconnects, both 3 and 6 feet. The most expensive pair was $3.

Over in the video area, I have 16 audio-video interconnects, 3, 6 or 12 feet. Each cost less than $4.

For the speakers I use cut-to-length "speaker cable" One pair is AWG12 and the other pair is AWG18. They all cost about $3.

In addition I have 6 RF coax cables to connect my cable input to the various VCRs. I got all of them from the cable company--free.

[Rockwell]

the interconnects and the speaker cables you use in your system? Was what they brought to the table worth it?

I have spent @ $500. And they are worth every penny!!!

Many that I have were freebies. I bought several Monster cables IC's before I knew better, but they are very thick and well made. The salesman threw in all the Monster speaker cable for free. Price is an arbitrary value unrelated to the actual performance of a cable.

How much did you spend on the wire inside your components, speakers or in your walls? Don't know? I'll bet they cost way less than $500.

[jneutron]

This is a dicussion forum is it not? If what you wrote about the scientists is true, well then, how smart could they be if they can't figure how to post here?

I use my children for all the technical aspects..

My 8 year old programs my cell phone for diff rings based on caller..my 10 year old set up the voice recognition calling.. both of them burn cd's and download their own music..

I'll rent them out to anyone needing help posting here..

Cheers, John

[Mwalsdor_cscc_edu]

I made my speaker "cables" from 99.999% 22awg solid silver, encased in a Teflon dielectric w/bare wire termination. About $75 bucks for two 10' runs. I'm about to replace my Silverline Audio [copper] interconnects with a DIY design by Steve Huffman that uses a coaxial design with very fine gauge silver ribbon conductor flowing through a Teflon air core with hollow plug vintage connectors. $75 bucks for 1m.

MikE

[bturk667]

Spend YOUR money as you see fit, and I will spend MINE as I see fit. As I wrote, their worth ever penny that I spent on them. You may think it was too much, but I don't.

[markw]

There's nothing like buyers remorse to ruin ones day. My friend feels good about his Rolex and, to him, it was worth every penny he spent on it. Of course, it's main purpose in life isn't to keep time. That's only an excuse to wear it. If timekeeping was his goal, he could accomplish that at a much lower price, and he readily admits that .

[Rockwell]

Spend YOUR money as you see fit, and I will spend MINE as I see fit. As I wrote, their worth ever penny that I spent on them. You may think it was too much, but I don't.

I didn't say otherwise, but what is it about these cables that is worth $500 to you?

[bturk667]

Thanks for being happy for me.

[bturk667]

The way they make my system sound. They add up to @ 10% of the total cost of my system. What they contribute to it's sound, is worth much more. I suggest you try to audition the Nordost Blue Heaven interconnects, they really are quite good. So are the Nordost Super Flatline speaker cable. Hear for yourself, don't take my word for it. Give them a try, whats the worst thing that can happen?

[Rockwell]

The way they make my system sound. They add up to @ 10% of the total cost of my system. What they contribute to it's sound, is worth much more. I suggest you try to audition the Nordost Blue Heaven interconnects, they really are quite good. So are the Nordost Super Flatline speaker cable. Hear for yourself, don't take my word for it. Give them a try, whats the worst thing that can happen?

The worst? My wife would string me up! :D What makes you think the wires are contributing to the sound? Wire, by its nature and intended purpose should do nothing to the sound. It certainly can't improve the sound, and can only degrade. Zip cord can pass a signal without audible degradation, so why spend more?

[F1]

...... I suggest you try to audition the Nordost Blue Heaven interconnects, they really are quite good. So are the Nordost Super Flatline speaker cable. Hear for yourself, don't take my word for it. Give them a try, whats the worst thing that can happen?

Those cables can make my wallet flat!!!

[mtrycrafts]

I HOPE YOU'RE READY FOR THE FLAMES! Because as soon as the scientists here finally figure out how to post they won't be able to resist that one!


Now why would you say this? He made a simple statement, claimed nothing. Hope he enjoys his cables.

[mtrycrafts]

Those cables can make my wallet flat!!!


Ah, you want your wallet full and the FR flat :)
Now I got it :)

[mtrycrafts]

I made my speaker "cables" from 99.999% 22awg solid silver, encased in a Teflon dielectric w/bare wire termination. About $75 bucks for two 10' runs. I'm about to replace my Silverline Audio [copper] interconnects with a DIY design by Steve Huffman that uses a coaxial design with very fine gauge silver ribbon conductor flowing through a Teflon air core with hollow plug vintage connectors. $75 bucks for 1m.

MikE


Now that would be a good cable to DBt against a RS cheapo.

[maxg]

I was doing very well on my cables until the point I went for Synergistic silver speaker cables and then tried biwiring ending up with 4, 3 meter lengths.

Funnily enough I no longer use any of them - I switched to Van Den hul D-352 hybrid cables which gave a smoother sound to my ears.

(Actually that is really bizzare as I used a pair of the Synergistic cables inside the speakers I built. I was expecting that this would mean the Synergistic would be a better match but I still prefered the VDH's to connect speakers to amps - go figure!!)

As it happens I just ordered a couple more pairs of interconnects (Van Den Hul D - 102 III HYBRIDs with special connectors - cant remember the make now) of 1 meter and 2 meter lengths.

I'll use the 1 meter cables to replace the existing locally made cables from the phono stage to the pre-amp and the longer pair to go from the pre-amp to the power amps.

I dont know how much I have spent altogether on interconnects and speaker cables - I guess I have about $750 in the cupboard not being used and another $1000 in use (including the new ones which I will hopefully pick up in the next couple of days).

[Bill L]

Now why would you say this? He made a simple statement, claimed nothing. Hope he enjoys his cables.

Is this the new Metrycrafts? Imposter!

[Harleyx]

Cardas Neutral ref speaker cables ($1700), 3 Cardas Golden ref power cables ($1800), 70 feet of MIT terminated for rears & center ($500), Cardas neutral ref amplifier interconnects ($1100), Cardas crosslnk componant interconnects ($200). Kinda looks like a lot when you type it all in like that..)

[Mwalsdor_cscc_edu]

Makes me wonder what your components are??? MikE

[bturk667]

High-end dealers are usually willing to let you take them home, at no cost to you. That surely will not flatten your wallet, will it?

[bturk667]

If they are then I'd say, since it's your money then it's money well spent.

[bturk667]

The worst? My wife would string me up! :D What makes you think the wires are contributing to the sound? Wire, by its nature and intended purpose should do nothing to the sound. It certainly can't improve the sound, and can only degrade. Zip cord can pass a signal without audible degradation, so why spend more?

These are not the first interconnects or speaker cables that I have had in my system. The Nordost Blue Heaven/Super Flatline combo improved the sound of my system more than any other cable combination that I had tried.

Now I have a few questions for you.
1. Have you ever tried to compare different interconnects/speaker cables in your system, to hear if they make any audible difference?
2. If as you say, "it certainly can't improve the sound, and can only degrade." Is it fair to say then, that some cables degrade the signal more than others?

"So why spend more?" As I stated, I like the way the Nordost combo made my system sound, period! There are those who choose to spend little or no meoney on cables, and there are those who choose to spend hugh amounts on them. I chose to spend what I felt was a very reasonable amount on cables. As I said I love what they did fpr my system. After all isn't that what really matters?

[Harleyx]

I demoed (?) all kinds of gear. Speakers, subs, cable...Im happy.

[Mwalsdor_cscc_edu]

I wasn't asking about what equipment you've heard - a long list for us all - I was just curious what components you OWN that are connected to the cables / cords mentioned. If you'd rather not say then don't bother [cool]. My system is located in the signature link at the bottom of the page.

MikE

[Harleyx]

I own much of the equipment I've had on demo...cables as well.
As for my present 'line-up', it has been available since the beginning of this new forum by clicking on my name.

[Rockwell]

Now I have a few questions for you.
1. Have you ever tried to compare different interconnects/speaker cables in your system, to hear if they make any audible difference?
2. If as you say, "it certainly can't improve the sound, and can only degrade." Is it fair to say then, that some cables degrade the signal more than others?

... As I said I love what they did fpr my system. After all isn't that what really matters?

1. No, not really. The effort involved in properly testing cables would be high. Others far more qualified than me have already done so, but there have been no reported positive results.

2. Yes, that is fair to say, but not likely in the audible range. If it is audible, then it is likely engineered to produce such degradation because inexpensive cables can pass a signal unfettered.

Your enjoyment is important, but so is the truth(at least I would hope it would be).

[bturk667]

"Your enjoyment is important, but so is the truth(at least I would hope it is)."
What truth? If someone can really hear a difference between interconnects? Unless your doing some kind of research paper, are a scientist, or your a techno geek, what does it matter? Do you think I care if you belive me or anybody else belives me that I can hear the difference between interconnects in my system? Well, I don't. I know I can hear the difference in my system. You should try to hear it for yourself. That is all that really matters!

[Rockwell]

"Your enjoyment is important, but so is the truth(at least I would hope it is)."
What truth? If someone can really hear a difference between interconnects? Unless your doing some kind of research paper, are a scientist, or your a techno geek, what does it matter? Do you think I care if you belive me or anybody else belives me that I can hear the difference between interconnects in my system? Well, I don't. I know I can hear the difference in my system. You should try to hear it for yourself. That is all that really matters!

What does it matter? It's a tremendous waste of time and money for a placebo. Is that what you are seeking, or are you looking for real improvements?

[Harleyx]

It what YOU CONSIDER a "tremendous waste of time and money".
Perhaps others think your vices/hobbys are the same.

[Rockwell]

It what YOU CONSIDER a "tremendous waste of time and money".
Perhaps others think your vices/hobbys are the same.

If you know that you are purchasing a placebo and are okay with that, then more power to you. Have fun.

If you didn't know that you are purchasing a placebo, now you know. Now that you know, you can spend money on real things, or continue with imaginary.

If you never questioned whether or not cables provide a real benefit, then perhaps you could do some testing or research to find out for yourself. Sighted listening tests or anecdotes cannot provide the answer.

[Monstrous Mike]

It what YOU CONSIDER a "tremendous waste of time and money".
Perhaps others think your vices/hobbys are the same.

Let's use the wine analogy again.

It is obvious that there are many different tasting wines. Some taste better to some people. There is also quite a large range in price. I don't know how price is assigned, but from a collecting/hobby point of view, I'm sure you could get right into it in a big way. I think Mario Lemieux has 5000 bottles although he can sure afford it.

So that's all fine and dandy. If you had a $500 dollar bottle of wine last night for dinner, hat's off to you.

Now for sad part. Say guy 1 has a $10 bottle of wine and guy 2 has a $1000 bottle of wine. Say the only differences between the two wines are that Jean Guy bottled number 1 from the cask and Pierre bottled number 2 from the same cask but the labels are different and the bottles are different.

Someone claiming that bottle 2 is vastly superior being bottled by Pierre in the fancy bottle and worth every penny of the $1000 is very much analogous to the guy claiming his high priced wires are so sonically superior because of the thickness or the pretty connectors and outer jacket.

Now getting back to the actual techical arguements about the sound of cables, let's start off by stating the fact that a perfect cable will transfer the sound from A to B without any change whatsoever. If we can't agree on that, then there's no point in going any further. From this, we can infer that a non-perfect cable will degrade the sound in some manner. And I hope it should be obvious that any non-audible degradation is irrelevent.

Now if we want to improve on a basic speaker wire like 12 gauge zip cord, we would have find if this basic wire is making audible degradations.

Since I do not believe that any report or study has shown 12 gauge zip cord to cause audible degradation, I have to remain highly skeptical of the amount of money some people spend on their cables. Now some people admit that they are buying their cables to match their furniture or whatever other reason but to claim expensive cables somehow added to the sound implies the previous cables degraded it and this simply hasn't been proven.

So in answer to your question, I personally don't think it's nuts what a guy spends on his hobby. But like the two bottles of wine that seem different but really aren't, I think it may be little crazy to spend excessive amounts of money on wires when there is a distinct possibility you can get the same performance for a fraction of the cost.

[Harleyx]

"So in answer to your question"...

I didn't ask a question.
Quite the long winded post, I'm going to get some wine.

[Pat D]

Let's see, I have about 12 interconnects and 2 speaker cables. The interconnects still include some freebies but most were from Radio Shack (those nice 4 enders for tape decks/signal processors), Walmart, and I think, the Sony store. I probably could have gotten a couple of them more cheaply, but I wanted them right away. So maybe $60-70 Cdn.

They connect up my equipment quite satisfactorily. Could have spent somewhat less if I had tried a bit harder, but convenience is worth something, too.

[maxg]

Let's use the wine analogy again.

Now getting back to the actual techical arguements about the sound of cables, let's start off by stating the fact that a perfect cable will transfer the sound from A to B without any change whatsoever. If we can't agree on that, then there's no point in going any further.

Well strangely enough we cant agree even on this apparently obvious requirement of a cable.

If you follow the logic that every component in a system has a sonic signature of one form or another then the idea behind choosing cables for their specific sonic signature is not such a stretch.

Whether imagined or real I choose cables based purely upon how they sound to me in my system, in my room, with my music. I find in the course of this selection process that different cables match in whilst others do not. Oftentimes this matching is not related to price - in other words the more expensive cable doesnt sound quite right to me, whilst a mid range, or even a cheap cable does the job I want it to do.

Example - I didnt like the way my speakers sounded with the Synergistic Silver cables but I did like the way they played with rather cheaper Van Den Hull cables. This does not mean to me that the Van Den Hull cables are better in real terms - merely that they are a better match for my system, my ears and my music in my environment.

If all of the above is purely in my imagination so be it. Strange though that:

1. My imagination is so consistent.
2. My imagination does not stretch to power cables and biwiring which I have continuously failed to discover any benefit from.
3. That so many people suffer the same "imagination" as to build up entire industries around them.
4. That others involved in my listening tests also "hear" differences, some agreeing with my choices, others not.

Ultimately as I have said before - you call it an expensive placebo if you wish - it adds to my enjoyment of my music.

[bturk667]

Have you ever tried expensive interconnects in your system. Say in the $50 to $100 price range? Don't knock um' unless you've tried um'.

[Rockwell]

Well strangely enough we cant agree even on this apparently obvious requirement of a cable.

If you follow the logic that every component in a system has a sonic signature of one form or another then the idea behind choosing cables for their specific sonic signature is not such a stretch.


That isn't logic, it's an assumption on your part.





Example - I didnt like the way my speakers sounded with the Synergistic Silver cables but I did like the way they played with rather cheaper Van Den Hull cables. This does not mean to me that the Van Den Hull cables are better in real terms - merely that they are a better match for my system, my ears and my music in my environment.

If all of the above is purely in my imagination so be it. Strange though that:

1. My imagination is so consistent.
2. My imagination does not stretch to power cables and biwiring which I have continuously failed to discover any benefit from.
3. That so many people suffer the same "imagination" as to build up entire industries around them.
4. That others involved in my listening tests also "hear" differences, some agreeing with my choices, others not.


So, to eliminate imagination from the equation, can you identify one cable from another without knowing which is connected?

[psonic]

less than $100!

IMO any audible gain would be relative to what your other equipment is, I mean if you have $500 in audio gear then $500 cables would not help, but with $5000 in gear those high quality cables may be appreciable..

[maxg]

Ok first off Bturk - I have just ordered some new interconnects that are slightly above that range - we will see how they fit in.

Rockwell,

Can I tell between the two speaker cables unsighted?

According to all the research - no, not on the spot, but I dont buy cables to listen to them on a momentary basis - I buy them for the long term. Over the course of a decent period of time I believe I will simply enjoy my music morer coming through the VDH cables than via the Synergistic cables - the sound is less harsh, strident and the mid-range appears thicker.

On the other hand I am not all that happy with the research that I have seen for DBT's on cables anyway. I suggested a test environment in the old forums that I believe would provide a far better chance of truely evaluating cable differences.

Without regurgitating all of that post again I will just mention the following:

1. Any testing would have to be done on my system in my environment with my music.
2. Switching would have to be instantaneous (press of a button).
3. All I would want to aim to do initially is identify if a change has been made - in other words clicking the swtich would randomly either change the cables or not - I would merely identify if it has.

There was a lot more but I dont have the time right now to put it all here - again.

Suffice to say that I would fancy my chances of getting a positive result with the above mentioned test procedure.

[happy ears]

I have a silly question, if wire does not make a difference how come 12 or 14 guage wire is the best. Why would it be the only wire with a flat frequency response. Best price that I understand, but I bet you it cost more than the stuff supplied with most equipment.

[Beckman]

I have a silly question, if wire does not make a difference how come 12 or 14 guage wire is the best. Why would it be the only wire with a flat frequency response. Best price that I understand, but I bet you it cost more than the stuff supplied with most equipment.

Short Response

12 or 14 gauge is cheep

Its not the only wire/cable with a flat frequency response. In fact there are cables that cost hundreds of times as much with the same frequency response.

I have yet to purchase equipment that comes with speaker wire.

Long Response
Wire does make a difference. Expensive cables attenuate (lower the magnitude) of the signal at certain frequencies. So when someone says that they can here more details with a certain cable, all that cable is probably doing is attenuating the signal at lower frequency, then to compensate for this the consumer turns up the sound level a hair and high frequencies stick out(just like turning up the treble).

If you are like me and want the sound coming out of the speakers to sound as close as possile to being in the recording studio 14 gauge is the smallest gauge that produces no audible attenuation in the audio frequency range.

[Rockwell]

Long Response
Wire does make a difference. Expensive cables attenuate (lower the magnitude) of the signal at certain frequencies. So when someone says that they can here more details with a certain cable, all that cable is probably doing is attenuating the signal at lower frequency, then to compensate for this the consumer turns up the sound level a hair and high frequencies stick out(just like turning up the treble).

If you are like me and want the sound coming out of the speakers to sound as close as possile to being in the recording studio 14 gauge is the smallest gauge that produces no audible attenuation in the audio frequency range.

Good point. The is no magic property inherent to expensive cables. All they are left to do is degrade the signal, even if that manipulates the customer into thinking the signal is enhanced.

[E-Stat]

Expensive cables attenuate (lower the magnitude) of the signal at certain frequencies.

By all means, please share with us the empirical data that supports your supposition. Especially since you lump perhaps dozens of different designs into one category.

rw