What's holding you back?

[Feanor]

I am curious to know what other people feel are the two or three factors that most hindering their enjoyment of reproduced sound???

To be sure, there is lots of discussion of equipment and media. And for me there have been time when these things have been my biggest irritant. (Still is with my HT set-up where speaker quality awaits my time & money for a DIY project I have in mind). But where my main system is concerned they have cease to be the big thing (for now).

My list follow; let's see yours:

A distant first for me is recording quality. To be clear I'm not talking about medium, (vinyl vs. CD vs. high-res); good and bad recording exist on each. As a mainly classical listener, I'm looking for a realistic semblance of an actual ensemble performing in a good performance venue. Is this too much to ask? It isn't; and I can say the obviously because such recordings to exist. Just last night I listen to a good Naxos recording: Witold Lutoslawski's Symphony No. 3 and other works, 8.553423, (Antoni Witt/Polish National Radio Sym.Orch). This is an unexceptional recording in some ways; it is a standard Red Book CD that was recorded ten years ago and its reproduction of, e.g., string sound isn't as almost perfect as some SACDs I own. However it has the essential quality I mention above, plus more than decent performance I would say: recommend. By contrast, last night I also listened to Elgar's Enigma Variations and Pomp & Circumstance Marches on Sony Essential Classics, SBK-48 265, (Barenboim/LPO): murky, airless, and lacking in dynamics -- a disgraceful reproduction that does not do justice to these colorful works. (IMO, a second rate performance too especially of the Pomp & Circumstance.)
Second for me is my general listening environment. My main system is located where too much general household noise intrudes. Improvements will be difficult and costly.
Third is listening area itself. There are bass resonances and, I suspect, secondary reflects that are significantly detracting from idea frequency response.
You can see that my equipment is nothing special, barely beyond entry level, but I have no serious problem with it. The tube versus solid state and digital versus vinyl debates are farcical from my perspective. My SS equipment can reproduce the best CDs almost ideally -- apart from the factors I mention above.

[Wireworm5]

For me the limiting factor is the quality of the recording. I am fortunate that I lucked out on good room acoustically speakering. And I have the luxury of playing the tunes at loud volumes. With 9 speakers and a sub, a good remastered cd or DTS recording is as close to live as I can imagine. My best reference disc would be The Blue Man group Complex dvd, the 3 DTS tracks on side two. It is freaking awesome!!

[Kaboom]

certainly time.
I don't usually have the time to be able to sit for two hours or more and just LISTEN to music. hopefully when i've passed the 8 courses i failed i'll have a little more.
ATM, my speakers are definately pulling down the rest of the equipment. These will be replaced soon, but i had a string of expenses during the summer which has seriously hit my account.
Also lack of decent vinyl here in spain. The little vinyl there is are crappy spanish pressings which are usually very worn. on top of that, they are expensive. Not that getting decent pressings off ebay makes the situation any cheaper...
Oh yeah and in spain stuff like Porcupine Tree's back catalog or Wobbler's release are absolutely impossible to find. If it weren't because the economist says otherwise, i'd definately qualify spain as "third world".
Cheers!

[Florian]

Well to truly judge a recording one needs a reference system. Unfortunatly these are very rare. But the new recordings are generally not very good. Before i say all recordings are bad i have to establish a world reference. In order to get there i need the following

2x Modified Conrad Johnson P5's,
1x Modified Jadis P80
2x Krell Digital Active Crossovers specifically developed for my speakers
1x Krell X64 DAC
1x Goldmund CD63
1x 75m2 room, fully treated.
1x Forsel Airtight TT
1x Goldmund Ref.3 TT
1x Audio Reseatch Reference Phono

So the biggest thing standing in my way is the money. But its only a matter of time :D

[Feanor]

Well to truly judge a recording one needs a reference system. Unfortunatly these are very rare. But the new recordings are generally not very good. Before i say all recordings are bad i have to establish a world reference.
...
So the biggest thing standing in my way is the money. But its only a matter of time :DSeriously, though ...

You don't actually need a "reference" system. My pile of crud is sufficient for the purpose;
Generally, newer recordings are better, at least in the classical genre.
Point 1 really gets to the root of the issue for me. Basically I can enjoy good recordings pretty much to their potential with what I've got; it's the good records that are too scarce.

[Florian]

I cheerfully disagree with you on point one, there are many recordings where i found nothing special about them until i heard them on the equipment mentioned above.

-Flo

[GMichael]

Seriously, though ...

You don't actually need a "reference" system. My pile of crud is sufficient for the purpose;
Generally, newer recordings are better, at least in the classical genre.
Point 1 really gets to the root of the issue for me. Basically I can enjoy good recordings pretty much to their potential with what I've got; it's the good records that are too scarce.

Crud? Can I have your hand-me-downs?

Time is the biggest hold back for me. That and the cash needed to buy some of the "crud" you don't like. Dibs on the planners......

[Feanor]

Crud? Can I have your hand-me-downs?

Time is the biggest hold back for me. That and the cash needed to buy some of the "crud" you don't like. Dibs on the planners......
Mine might be "crud" relative to Florian's stuff, but I do like it. Really, it was my main point that other stuff, not my equipment, that's restricting me.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I cheerfully disagree with you on point one, there are many recordings where i found nothing special about them until i heard them on the equipment mentioned above.

-Flo

Word on that Florian. To take your thoughts further, I think you need reference equipment, and a reference room.

[Feanor]

certainly time....Cheers!
Nevertheless I left it out my list of complaints.

I do you have an iPod Mini with decent AKG headphones that let's me enjoy music when I otherwise couldn't, e.g. commuting to work. Granted, the enjoyment is not as great.

[Feanor]

I cheerfully disagree with you on point one, there are many recordings where i found nothing special about them until i heard them on the equipment mentioned above.

-Flo
Equipment of sufficient quality can be a revelation. Indeed, that was the case for me when I when from NAD amp to my current Bel Canto.

[GMichael]

Mine might be "crud" relative to Florian's stuff, but I do like it. Really, it was my main point that other stuff, not my equipment, that's restricting me.

Dang! I was already making room for them.

[Florian]

I am not saying that you cant tell the difference on good equipment, just saying that on a reference system some recordings that i didnt like were actually pretty good.

Thats all

-Flo

PS: I rocked too once to a 500$ stereo :p Its all good.

[daviethek]

Interesting discusion. For me the grief is having a huge number of badly engineered CD's. Top be more exact, a large number of CD of my favorite music that may or may not have been recorded properly digitally or transferred properly from analog. Since CD quality varies so much, and my system has improved, reviews are now an important prerequisite for my purchases. My new system has more resolution than I am used to and I am finding some merit even in the bad CD's. Anyway, the second problem is listening enviornment. It is difficult to achieve perfection in this area. In the systems photographs I see on this site and others, audio hobbyists have really set aside some large dedicated listening spaces, most of which would not pass the wife test in the real world. I would like to design a room just for 2 channel listening. This can be done by giving the wife substantial leeway in maintaining an equally expensive hobby. Dedication is another thing. I am making a firm committment to watch less TV. It is largely drool and has not improved in my lifetime. After the news the TV goes off and the listening begins.
FM listening has improved significantly since getting a Dynalab tuner. dk

[ToddL]

Mine is simple: It is me. Some days I can listen to 20 year old skipping records through by buddy's minisystem and I love it. Some days I can listen to $10,000 Klipsch Horns with NAD amplifier hooked up with well recorded music and I hate it. Your brain is what interpretes music and mine is very day-to-day.

[theaudiohobby]

What's holding me back

Room
Room
Room

A dedicated listening that is acoustically treated will greatly enhance my musical joyment.

[Feanor]

What's holding me back

Room
Room
Room
A dedicated listening that is acoustically treated will greatly enhance my musical joyment.
I lost my (semi-) dedicated listening room when we move to a smaller house about a year ago. Now the living room is doing double-duty as a listening room. My wife isn't super fussy and has no real problem with my Magneplanars in there -- thank goodness for that. However as I mentioned, household sounds are a big problem, especially TV and video for the nearby family room.

[gonefishin]

I am curious to know what other people feel are the two or three factors that most hindering their enjoyment of reproduced sound???





Lumbar surgery a month ago (l4,l5)
A two level cervical fusion next week


I've got a lot of the pieces downstairs waiting for me...but they've got just a bit longer to go. So I suppose I need a little more time. Soon though...soon :)

take care all>>>
dan

[Woochifer]

The room acoustics, the setup, and the quality of the source recordings are probably going to be the biggest culprits IMO for anyone who owns a decent component based system.

The room acoustics are typically lousy in most homes, and are small enough to create huge nonlinearities in the bass response. Dealing with the acoustics IMO is priority #1, because it can uniformly detract from enjoying any system, whether it's an entry level system or a high end system.

The setup is also important because getting the "sweet spot" optimized and making sure that everything is setup correctly (especially with analog components) is another frequently overlooked aspect that detracts from enjoying a system to the fullest. With multichannel setups, this is even more crucial because improper levels, delay timing, and subwoofer settings can significantly degrade what a system is capable of.

For all the talk about recording quality and whether a "reference" system will bring out their best, the thing to keep in mind is that plenty of recordings nowadays are not optimized for playback on "reference" quality systems. And that probably includes most pop, rock, and hip hop recordings.

The issue is that the majority of the audience for those music genres does not listen to music while sitting at home in front of an audiophile system. They listen in the car, on a portable device, through computer desktop speakers, through mini systems, etc. The recording engineers are well aware of that, and one of the most commonly used monitoring setups over the last decade was the Yamaha NS-10 near field monitor. The NS-10 has numerous inaccuracies in its tonal response, yet it gained in popularity in professional circles because it provided a great reference for optimizing recordings for car audio systems and smaller speakers. While that approach compromises the sound quality when played on higher resolution audio systems, it provides a sonic benefit to the majority of the listeners who buy (or download) those particular titles and mostly listen on the go.

In the 70s, much of the sound in pop music tended to be optimized for the big JBL floorstanders. I recently heard a demo of the Eagles' Hotel California DVD-A (two-channel version), and was floored by how much better it sounded through a pair of Definitive Technology BP7002 floorstanders than on the Vienna Acoustics Mozarts and Martin Logan Montages. In listenings I'd done with other recordings ("better" recordings, if you will), I always thought that the Viennas far outclassed the Def Techs. But, this seems to be a case where a particular recording was optimized for how rock audiences in the late-70s likely listened to their music (i.e. the vintage JBLs and their many imitators), and it shined with the Def Techs, which better emulate the dominant approach of that past era.

[Feanor]

Lumbar surgery a month ago (l4,l5)
A two level cervical fusion next week
...
dan
Best wishes for a successful procedure and quick recovery.

(I'll be facing a coronary artery by-pass operation in a few months.)

[Feanor]

The room acoustics, the setup, and the quality of the source recordings are probably going to be the biggest culprits IMO for anyone who owns a decent component based system.
...
The recording engineers are well aware of that, and one of the most commonly used monitoring setups over the last decade was the Yamaha NS-10 near field monitor. The NS-10 has numerous inaccuracies in its tonal response, yet ...

Of my classical works being monitored with Yamaha speakers :( . Could explain a lot, though! But I guess most classical are done on speakers like B&W 801's (??).

[Worf101]

Lumbar surgery a month ago (l4,l5)
A two level cervical fusion next week


I've got a lot of the pieces downstairs waiting for me...but they've got just a bit longer to go. So I suppose I need a little more time. Soon though...soon :)

take care all>>>
dan
Kinda puts it in perspective don't it. However, nothing like good, soothing quality music to speed and ease one's recovery eh wat? Get well and be well...

Da Worfster :D

[topspeed]

Hey Dan,
Best wishes for your surgery. I'm sure everything will be fine and now you can look forward to not enduring that constant pain you've suffered through.

On topic, my biggest problem is room and time. I don't think I'll be completely satisfied until I can have a dedicated music room with enough space for a dedicated 2 channel rig and my drum kits. This way, I can play whenever I want, as loud as I want, and not worry about bothering the wife and kids.

[Woochifer]

Of my classical works being monitored with Yamaha speakers :( . Could explain a lot, though! But I guess most classical are done on speakers like B&W 801's (??).

I don't think that classical recordings were monitored through the NS-10s. Like I said, it was primarily pop recordings, and the NS-10 provided an effective reference for the likeliest playback systems that would be used for those particular recordings. The NS-10 was discontinued about a year ago, and near field monitors from other companies such as Mackie are now more commonly used.

[gonefishin]

Thanks guys :) it's odd to say...but I'm really looking forward to it.


Can't wait to get the downstairs system up and running again :) Oh happy days

dan

[SlumpBuster]

Back in the 1980's I saw alot of hip-hop, freestyle, and metal being "referenced" on boom-boxes on cassette while in studio. Alot of producers and engineers would take recordings out to the parking lot to hear it on a factory system. When DAT took over, with its portability, they would find the most wack systems to play stuff back on. Which stands to reason. The first time I heard "Straight Outta Compton" (Easy!) was on a crappy boombox in my friends bed room. It still flipped my wig hearing it and we played it over and over.

Which leads me to what's holding me back: the wonderment of youth. There is no "first time" anymore. No more first AC/DC or Priest record. No more not "getting" the Cure in the eighth grade, but suddenly thinking Robert Smith was brilliant by the nineth grade. No more snearing at some poseur that never heard of Stiff Little Fingers or Billy Bragg (or being labled a poseur myself). Now every new record seems dirivative of something else. Stacy's Mom was a great song, but you can tell they were really, really big Cars fans. I have to go really far afield to find something that blows my mind, which I'm ashamed to admit, has recently taken me to the classic country racks. ;)

Yeah, the wonderment of youth, that's what's holding me back. That and no twin 15" subs.

[ToddL]

Quote- Stacy's Mom was a great song, but you can tell they were really, really big Cars fans. QUOTE]

I have actually briefly met the guy who wrote that song. I got to hang out in his studio for a week. In his defense he did have a lot of gold albums on the wall.
A neat fact- He wrote all the music to the movie Josie and the Pussycats

[luvs2jam60]

1. Like almost everybody else, I would have to go with recording quality, ESPECIALLY those DVD-Audio and SACDs that are only remastered in true 5.1 and not digitally rerecorded in that format. Also, some ordinary listening CDs really get on my nerves, one that comes to mind is Californication by the Red Hot Chili Peppers. If you've never heard this CD, do yourself a favor and DON'T LISTEN TO IT! I'm not sure if they had recording problems or what, but it seems that every high on that CD is distorted beyond belief.
2. Definitely HT environment. I live in a dorm room and I cringe everytime I hear a DVD or DVD-Audio. The surrounds are barely audible with my setup. And plus, if you are in a position to hear them well enough that they sound good, that is right next to my sub in which case the base is unbareable.
3. $$$. I'm sure there's ALWAYS something in everybody's HT that they would want to improve or replace. And I am definitely one of them. College is a nice kick in the pants when it comes to budgeting your finances, and my HT is a perfect example. Sure, all the freshys say I have the best setup on the floor, but it could be so much better. I would have to say on the top of my list would be to replace the 24in CRT, probably with a DLP or small plasma when the time is right.

[Feanor]

1...
I would have to say on the top of my list would be to replace the 24in CRT, probably with a DLP or small plasma when the time is right.
I certainly would like nice big-screen TV. For me a 50" LCD or DPL projection would be plenty good enough. :D The audio portion of my HT setup needs work too. Actually, I have a DIY project in mind that would give me complementary fronts for the center I've already built: see it here ...http://gallery.audioreview.com/showphoto.php?photo=1189&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

And that's where money comes into the picture. My son and daughter are both in college and I'm helping them out for fees and residence. That really sucks the bucks, so I don't have much left for upgrades! :(

[thepogue]

Sorry to hear your backs in the dumps me friend....me prayers to ya!!! Get well soon!!!

Peace, Pogue





Lumbar surgery a month ago (l4,l5)
A two level cervical fusion next week

I've got a lot of the pieces downstairs waiting for me...but they've got just a bit longer to go. So I suppose I need a little more time. Soon though...soon :)

take care all>>>
dan

[gonefishin]

Ok...let me try this again...

What's holding me back?


Adding more room treatments before making any other measurments/adjustments/additions
Next would be a new tweeter amp...then it will be time to take more measurments...with new adjustments to follow
after that...I've got two woofers that I won't be able to use in their current cabinet (too large) but they also work in a small ported design. This sub would be for my DIY area for testing and tuning
Then a new set of speakers to go with them...just something smallish
after that a pair of back-loaded fostex speakers basically for looks...and maybe in the bedroom.
that's about it for now





On a good note: I'm going to go see the Clayton-Hamilton Jazz Orchestra in October at the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. I simply can't wait. I'll be there neck brace and all with probably one of the biggest smiles you've ever seen. The last concert I missed there was Wynton Marsalis's Charity event which was simply just too much money for me to spend. Actually, the only two places I'll go for concerts anymore are the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and the Chicago Auditorium that's just around the corner. These und good. The Auditorium has some nice blues acts there too :)


But this is going to be one heck of a good time...can't wait!


take care all>>>>>>>>>

[Feanor]

Ok...let me try this again...

What's holding me back?

Adding more room treatments before making any other measurments/adjustments/additions
Next would be a new tweeter amp...then it will be time to take more measurments...with new adjustments to follow
after that...I've got two woofers that I won't be able to use in their current cabinet (too large) but they also work in a small ported design. This sub would be for my DIY area for testing and tuning
Then a new set of speakers to go with them...just something smallish
after that a pair of back-loaded fostex speakers basically for looks...and maybe in the bedroom.
that's about it for now
On a good note: I'm going to go see the Clayton-Hamilton Jazz Orchestra in October at the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. I simply can't wait. I'll be there neck brace and all with probably one of the biggest smiles you've ever seen. The last concert I missed there was Wynton Marsalis's Charity event which was simply just too much money for me to spend. Actually, the only two places I'll go for concerts anymore are the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and the Chicago Auditorium that's just around the corner. These und good. The Auditorium has some nice blues acts there too :)

But this is going to be one heck of a good time...can't wait!

take care all>>>>>>>>>
Sounds you've got lots of good stuff to look forward to.

[texlle]

I know I have some issues holding me back. My new room is one, with it's astoundingly bad acoustics. It's a 10x12' box with paper thin walls. It sucks. I need to go by and at least get some big towels to put on the walls since I'm way too cheap for pro sound treatment.

I also get the impression that my upgraded power tubes on my amp are making a lot less power than the stock tubes. The only reason I upgraded them is because the stock tubes had a brown base...plus everyone said it was worth it to upgrade them. I got some Sovtek EL34 tubes and while, IMPO, the sound did seemingly improve, I noticed power output to be now lacking. My friend has the same amp as I do, only older, and with the original tubes, and his seems to make a decent amount of power. Unless the B&W 602s2's are just exceptionally easy to drive. ;)

Other than those two grievances...recording quality on really really bad cd's.

[gonefishin]

almost forgot...I'm going to add a set of infinite baffle subwoofers to my system as well.


that should keep me busy for a while :D


dan

[nightflier]

I used to have no time at all, regularly coming home 7-8pm at night and working weekends. Then I (ahem, we) had a baby and everything changed. We now have daily listening sessions together after work. It's not two hours, but it's the best time of the day. Music appreciation (and by extention the appreciation for quality equipment) is something we also have a responsibility to pass on.

My limiting factors are:

1. When listening to the radio and TV, commercials and lack of publicly accessible variety in programming (Sirius is fine, but it's expensive and still not commercial-free) :(

2. Diaper changes and feedings :)

3. The nagging feeling that a yet undiscovered but simple & inexpensive tweak could substancially improve the sound in my system :confused:

4. The fear that all my favorite quality recordings will go the way of the Dodo and be converted to compressed-low-quality-made-for-background-listening-online-only sound files (If Mappleshade sells out to iTunes, someone will have to shoot me) :mad:

[Lensman]

For about a year, the major thing holding me back was my hearing. Out of the blue one evening, my right ear began hurting - beginning a voyage involving an emergency room visit, several ENTs, X-rays, two CT scans, various medicines, and even an MRI. The cause? I'd ruptured my eardrum, possibly due to sinus pressure. Seems eardrum injuries either heal properly or they don't. There's little in the way of treatment that can be done and If things don't heal right, there's no surgical fix that'll get them back to normal.

During this time my ear felt like it always had something in it distorting sounds. I also constantly heard a high-pitched whine in my head, and reasonably loud noises (such as kids yelling or the stereo from a car stopped with me at a light) caused pain. As an enthusiast, not knowing whether I'd ever be able to hear well again also caused me a lot more mental anguish than most folks would probably feel. If any might have wondered, this is why I haven't posted here in some time.

Fortunately, my eardrum healed fine, with no scarring of the tissue of any consequence. Tests now show my hearing is normal in the ear and the equal of my other ear. It was quite pleasing when the ENT gave me verification that my anal attitude toward sound wasn't just a mental thing by informing me the test results were significantly better than that of most adults. I do still have sporadic trouble with the ear but the problem doesn't appear to have anything to do with the ear itself. While the exact cause of the problem is still not known, it's beginning to look like surgery to correct a deviated septum might be a fix.

This experience has put a whole new perspective on the world of audio for me. Over the years, I've spent a considerable amount of time fixating on flaws, dreaming of better gear, and tweaking my rooms and systems when I could have spent more of that time doing the thing for which all my gear was intended - dedicated listening. Though my system's still far from the elusive perfect, I now realize how fortunate a thing it is just to be able to hear well. And the joy I've felt lately just sitting and listening to what I have has been beyond compare.

[Feanor]

And glad to hear you intend to get back into the hobby.

Your experience should remind us all that life and pleasures are tenuous things: we need to enjoy them while we may, but not take them too seriously.

[thepogue]

very happy to hear your back in the game...take care me friend!!!


Pogue

[magno@mac.com]

...With classical recordings of late. After dropping 6 grand or so on my stereo over the past couple of weeks I went to the store in search some quality classical discs to replace/compliment my collection of alot of low grade, bargain-priced repackaged classic recordings. I picked up a recent recording of Mendelsohn and Dvorak by the Beaux Arts trio and a fairly recent Pollini recording of Beethoven sonatas. I was expecting that at least I'd get to hear just how great my new system could sound.

How'd I do? Well, first off, the playing was especially sloppy on the Beaux Arts disc -- especially unacceptable given the esteem in which these folks are held.Pollini's Chopin Etudes are probably the best the world has ever or will ever hear but I'll take Brendel or Kempf's Beethoven over ole Maurizio's anyday. But worse than this was just how poor the production/engineering quality was in both recordings. Of course, these aren't the only egregious offendors I've come across in the recorded world of classical music --I'd say 40% of the classical recordings I've heard have sounded truly awful from a production standpoint. (This has always struck me as unacceptable given the perfectionism inherent in the classical world.) But here we are, late 2005, the classical music scene reportedly in a world of hurt, and these recordings are deemed fit to print? #$^#%%#^$%^ The analogue re-release of Glenn Gould's 2nd Goldberg Variations from 1981 sounds better than Pollini's 2003 Beethoven!!!

Sorry for the rant :D


I am curious to know what other people feel are the two or three factors that most hindering their enjoyment of reproduced sound???

To be sure, there is lots of discussion of equipment and media. And for me there have been time when these things have been my biggest irritant. (Still is with my HT set-up where speaker quality awaits my time & money for a DIY project I have in mind). But where my main system is concerned they have cease to be the big thing (for now).

My list follow; let's see yours:

A distant first for me is recording quality. To be clear I'm not talking about medium, (vinyl vs. CD vs. high-res); good and bad recording exist on each. As a mainly classical listener, I'm looking for a realistic semblance of an actual ensemble performing in a good performance venue. Is this too much to ask? It isn't; and I can say the obviously because such recordings to exist. Just last night I listen to a good Naxos recording: Witold Lutoslawski's Symphony No. 3 and other works, 8.553423, (Antoni Witt/Polish National Radio Sym.Orch). This is an unexceptional recording in some ways; it is a standard Red Book CD that was recorded ten years ago and its reproduction of, e.g., string sound isn't as almost perfect as some SACDs I own. However it has the essential quality I mention above, plus more than decent performance I would say: recommend. By contrast, last night I also listened to Elgar's Enigma Variations and Pomp & Circumstance Marches on Sony Essential Classics, SBK-48 265, (Barenboim/LPO): murky, airless, and lacking in dynamics -- a disgraceful reproduction that does not do justice to these colorful works. (IMO, a second rate performance too especially of the Pomp & Circumstance.)
Second for me is my general listening environment. My main system is located where too much general household noise intrudes. Improvements will be difficult and costly.
Third is listening area itself. There are bass resonances and, I suspect, secondary reflects that are significantly detracting from idea frequency response.
You can see that my equipment is nothing special, barely beyond entry level, but I have no serious problem with it. The tube versus solid state and digital versus vinyl debates are farcical from my perspective. My SS equipment can reproduce the best CDs almost ideally -- apart from the factors I mention above.

[Feanor]

...
.... Of course, these aren't the only egregious offendors I've come across in the recorded world of classical music --I'd say 40% of the classical recordings I've heard have sounded truly awful from a production standpoint. (This has always struck me as unacceptable given the perfectionism inherent in the classical world.) But here we are, late 2005, the classical music scene reportedly in a world of hurt, and these recordings are deemed fit to print? #$^#%%#^$%^ The analogue re-release of Glenn Gould's 2nd Goldberg Variations from 1981 sounds better than Pollini's 2003 Beethoven!!!

Sorry for the rant :D
I feel that in a purely technical sense recordings have improved quite a bit over the last 20 years. I mean engineers seem to balance the frequency spectrum more reliably that a generation ago, and digital harshness and hash are much less typical. On the other hand, the ability to capture a valid sense of a real ensemble playing in a real space hasn't consistently improved. A couple of recordings exemplify the opposite ends of this spectrum -- that just happen to come to my mind at the moment -- both SACDs, are:

Really great: Jennifer Higdon: City Scape; Concerto for Orchestra. Robert Spano/Atlanta SO. Telarc SACD-60620 -- magnificent, modern engineer that really puts you in the concert hall.
Really, (really), bad: Beethoven: String Quartets, Op.130 & 133, 'Grosse Fuge'. The Lindsays. ASV CD DCA 9117 -- the epitome of misguided engineering that puts you head inside the instruments.

[twochannelsonly]

So much unhappy.
I listened to everything I owned before I bought it and think it sounds wounderful and feel like there is nothing that hampers a persons ability to enjoy listening to the music but the person themselves.... hey thats good, maybe a new sig line :) LOL

[patch]

Seriously, though ...

You don't actually need a "reference" system. My pile of crud is sufficient for the purpose;
Generally, newer recordings are better, at least in the classical genre.
Point 1 really gets to the root of the issue for me. Basically I can enjoy good recordings pretty much to their potential with what I've got; it's the good records that are too scarce.

You owe it to yourself to audition some of Chesky's CD's and SACD's. These are truly awe inpiring recordings by a studio that pays attention to details. I've also had good luck with Mobile Fidelity.

[hifitommy]

is important but not as much as the music. now and then the equipment enables the music. kraftwerks 'autobahn' never did much for me until i played it on my former vpi19/smeIV/virtuoso vdh player. THEN it made more sense.

david chesky just made a point for recording quality in stereophile and while i agree to a point, the music performance has to be worthy too. dont you old farts remember how good music sounded on mono am radios? just TRY and take those memories away.

yeah, a good system is a nice pathway to enjoyment and i have been honing all along. heres mine, recently added the bellari phono which is pretty nice:

http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/588.html (http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/588.html)

still honing. my fried sub needs a new b200 so i am listening to a friends sunfire true super junior. flight of the cosmic hippo is alive and well here.

[BRANDONH]

...With classical recordings of late. After dropping 6 grand or so on my stereo over the past couple of weeks I went to the store in search some quality classical discs to replace/compliment my collection of alot of low grade, bargain-priced repackaged classic recordings. I picked up a recent recording of Mendelsohn and Dvorak by the Beaux Arts trio and a fairly recent Pollini recording of Beethoven sonatas. I was expecting that at least I'd get to hear just how great my new system could sound.

How'd I do? Well, first off, the playing was especially sloppy on the Beaux Arts disc -- especially unacceptable given the esteem in which these folks are held.Pollini's Chopin Etudes are probably the best the world has ever or will ever hear but I'll take Brendel or Kempf's Beethoven over ole Maurizio's anyday. But worse than this was just how poor the production/engineering quality was in both recordings. Of course, these aren't the only egregious offendors I've come across in the recorded world of classical music --I'd say 40% of the classical recordings I've heard have sounded truly awful from a production standpoint. (This has always struck me as unacceptable given the perfectionism inherent in the classical world.) But here we are, late 2005, the classical music scene reportedly in a world of hurt, and these recordings are deemed fit to print? #$^#%%#^$%^ The analogue re-release of Glenn Gould's 2nd Goldberg Variations from 1981 sounds better than Pollini's 2003 Beethoven!!!

Sorry for the rant :D

This website has a lot of audiophile quality recordings:
http://store.acousticsounds.com/