Vienna Acoustics

[eisforelectronic]

Does anyone have any experience with these?

[Jimmy C]

...I've only heard the Hadyn, Bach and Beethoven.

I always say these remind me of a budget-priced Sonus Faber - I demoed the Hadyn against the Concerto, and they had some similar qualities. You don't get the leather and thick Walnut (?) slabs with the Vienna, but it's half the price. I don't mean to put down the Hadyn's woodwork... it's very nice as well.

I would say they are on the polite side, very mellow and easy to listen to. They use a soft-dome which is always easy on the ears. All three seemed well balanced and coherent to me.

If I had to kvetch, I would say dynamics and resolution would not be their forte.

IIRC, they start around $1K (the Hadyn), and are worthy of a listen.

[shoe]

I had the Mozarts here for about three months. Beautiful and well made. Easy to listen to. Wanted something with a little more dynamics and bass so I went with something elce.

[snickelfritz]

I listened to a small pair of VA Mozart Grands at the new BestBuy Home Theater(!).
They sounded smooth on top, with no audible bass coloration.
Not sure how well they'll do at really high volume levels with those tiny drivers, but I was impressed with the sound quality at moderate levels.
Cabinet finish is stellar.
I'd put them on my list if I were in the market for a $2700 speaker system.

[drseid]

Does anyone have any experience with these?
I guess I'll take the minority view in saying I was completely unimpressed with these... I listened to several models, and while some got my attention more than others, I just felt the whole line sounded dull and lifeless.

With respect to the previous comment on Vienna being similar to Sonus Faber... While certainly I respect that view, I do not share it at all... As a matter of fact, Sonus Faber's floorstanders in general tend to pull me into the music and while maybe not the most accurate, they are quite pleasant sounding and involving, whereas the Vienna Acoustics speakers just put me to sleep. Each to their own I guess.

---Dave

[eisforelectronic]

I guess I'll take the minority view in saying I was completely unimpressed with these... I listened to several models, and while some got my attention more than others, I just felt the whole line sounded dull and lifeless.

With respect to the previous comment on Vienna being similar to Sonus Faber... While certainly I respect that view, I do not share it at all... As a matter of fact, Sonus Faber's floorstanders in general tend to pull me into the music and while maybe not the most accurate, they are quite pleasant sounding and involving, whereas the Vienna Acoustics speakers just put me to sleep. Each to their own I guess.

---Dave

I listened to the Haydn's today and I have to agree. Totally uninvolving, I thought they really lacked any imaging. There was no soundstage, just sound. There was a set of $299/pair Bostons below them that sounded better. Very disappointing.

[nightflier]

There was a set of $299/pair Bostons below them that sounded better. Very disappointing.

Woah! If you are comparing these at Tweeter or Magnolia or similar store, then I have to say that the Vienna's a quite a bit better than the $299 Boston's. The midrange is more detailed and the bass is more pronounced. They also have far better construction and sound like they have more heft. Most stores won't have these speakers connected to the same equipment, if even in the same room, so the comparison can't accurately be made there. Test them blind in your home, and then compare.

My experience with the Vienna's is that for the price they are not as pleasant to listen to as the Sonus. Don't know why, but in the store I kept coming back to the Sonus when connected to the same equipment (you have to beg the store to do this, by the way). For my money (which I no longer have any of), I would buy the Sonus. Vienna makes a beautiful speaker and it sounds very good, but the Sonus has just a better overall sound to my ears. I can't say exactly where or how, it just does.

But I like my speakers mellow and laid back, so this is just my preference. Yours may differ.

[Woochifer]

I will add that Vienna Acoustics makes the best sounding on-wall speakers that I've heard so far. In my brief listenings, I definitely prefer the Viennas to the Martin Logan Frescos as well as the on-wall models from Boston and Definitive Technology. I've not yet tried any of the Paradigm, B&W, Vandersteen, Magnepan, or Energy models, so obviously there are a lot of other options to consider in this category.

Another convenient thing about Vienna Acoustics is that they are available at the Magnolia Home Theater stores inside Best Buy. Best Buy only started its pilot store project with Magnolia Home Theater less than two years ago, and rolled out the concept throughout California late last year, and now they're opening all over the country. Those Magnolia stores expose a lot of higher end home theater products to the masses, but unfortunately it also puts additional pressure on independent stores that might operate in the same local market.

[eisforelectronic]

Woah! If you are comparing these at Tweeter or Magnolia or similar store, then I have to say that the Vienna's a quite a bit better than the $299 Boston's. The midrange is more detailed and the bass is more pronounced. They also have far better construction and sound like they have more heft. Most stores won't have these speakers connected to the same equipment, if even in the same room, so the comparison can't accurately be made there. Test them blind in your home, and then compare.

My experience with the Vienna's is that for the price they are not as pleasant to listen to as the Sonus. Don't know why, but in the store I kept coming back to the Sonus when connected to the same equipment (you have to beg the store to do this, by the way). For my money (which I no longer have any of), I would buy the Sonus. Vienna makes a beautiful speaker and it sounds very good, but the Sonus has just a better overall sound to my ears. I can't say exactly where or how, it just does.

But I like my speakers mellow and laid back, so this is just my preference. Yours may differ.

Everthing was played through the same Pioneer Elite receiver at the local Magnolia. Honestly, they just didn't grab me. I didn't bother to listen very closely to much of anything about them. Maybe I'll give them another listen one day.

[samgupta]

I've had a pair of VA Bachs for about 3 months now. VA is changing their entire lineup so if anyone wants the old models you can get a great deal on them. I had my eye on their bookshelf speaker for the last 2 years but was able to work a deal to get floorstanders for about the same price.

I've found that they are really particular to the amp/pre-amp combo driving them. I've heard the Bachs with Pioneer Elite electronics pushing them and I'd have to agree that it was pretty flat. I also heard them with a B&K system with very similar results. With Anthem driving them you can start to hear what they are capable of.

What will really make these sing is a Krell...I had a Krell integrated (KAV-300i) and that did the trick. I recently upgraded the Krell to their latest integrated model (KAV-400) and have stellar results.

The trouble with most of the Best Buy Magnolia locations is that they wont have anything like the Krell or Anthem on hand. It really makes me wonder if they know what they are doing...but that's another topic.

[Woochifer]

What will really make these sing is a Krell...I had a Krell integrated (KAV-300i) and that did the trick. I recently upgraded the Krell to their latest integrated model (KAV-400) and have stellar results.

The trouble with most of the Best Buy Magnolia locations is that they wont have anything like the Krell or Anthem on hand. It really makes me wonder if they know what they are doing...but that's another topic.

Magnolia carries Krell, but you have to go to a standalone Magnolia Audio Video store to try those items out. The Magnolia Home Theater stores at Best Buy only carry a portion of the product lines that Magnolia sells.

[nightflier]

I'll echo what samgupta said. I forwarded this link to a friend of mine who has the Haydn Grands powered by a Canary Audio tube amp / preamp combo and says the speakers sound fantastic. He does have other speakers he likes better, but nothing comes close in the Vienna price range. I like Sonus better and we always go back and forth over this, but then again, I can't really afford either so I've never heard them side-by-side in my home. At his place, they do sound very good, definitely not flat or dull. With speakers of this caliber and up, the rest of the system and the cables become much more noticeable. At Magnolia, the selection of components and cables (and the sales rep's willingness to swap these) is not ideal for testing speakers like the Vienna's.

[drseid]

I'll echo what samgupta said. I forwarded this link to a friend of mine who has the Haydn Grands powered by a Canary Audio tube amp / preamp combo and says the speakers sound fantastic. He does have other speakers he likes better, but nothing comes close in the Vienna price range. I like Sonus better and we always go back and forth over this, but then again, I can't really afford either so I've never heard them side-by-side in my home. At his place, they do sound very good, definitely not flat or dull. With speakers of this caliber and up, the rest of the system and the cables become much more noticeable. At Magnolia, the selection of components and cables (and the sales rep's willingness to swap these) is not ideal for testing speakers like the Vienna's.
Certainly I agree that it is the whole package that matters, and I confess I was less than inpressed with how Magnolia (inside the Best Buys) sets up the VA speakers (and others) in general. I also will agree on the build quality... superb.

I have not heard of (let alone heard) Canary Audio, so I can't comment on what I would think of the speakers if powered by that specific combo -- I'll have to seek out that brand to hear it someday... What I *do* know, is if a family of speakers turned me off as much as the VA family did when I heard them, no different front end, etc. is going to change my mind. I am sure they have the potential to sound better than I heard (and if I was on the borderline like/dislike, the electronics could make the difference), but not enough to change my mind about the character of the line.

To be fair, when I first heard the (now discontinued) Sonus Faber Grand Piano Homes it was at my local Tweeter... They powered them with a Denon 3805 receiver. That was *definitely* not the optimal way to go with speakers of that quality... But you know what? I *still* loved them anyway. I wouldn't power them that way in my home, but I got a good taste for what they sounded like in a highly sub-optimal scenario, and it sold me on their sound. I have since heard many other SF speakers, and with one exception (the Concertino Home mini-monitor) have loved them all.

All that said, my opinion is just one person's... talk to 99 others and they could have entirely different ones....

---Dave

[samgupta]

Magnolia carries Krell, but you have to go to a standalone Magnolia Audio Video store to try those items out. The Magnolia Home Theater stores at Best Buy only carry a portion of the product lines that Magnolia sells.


Good point...I think what rubs me wrong about the Best Buy Magnolia Home Theater stores is that the idea is so good--expose mass market consumers to a taste of the higher end in a captive environment. But when they don't have the right equipment to demo the products to make them sound best (okay,I'll admint "best" is clearly subjective), it's like getting it 90% right and then stumbling at the end.

Just my opinion--I don't mean to sound like some sort of audio snob. I really like that people used to hearing Sony, Yamaha, etc. can hear the next step, regardless of what that is. Maybe just the fact that this thread is here is proof of the value the store is bringing.

[eisforelectronic]

I've had a pair of VA Bachs for about 3 months now. VA is changing their entire lineup so if anyone wants the old models you can get a great deal on them. I had my eye on their bookshelf speaker for the last 2 years but was able to work a deal to get floorstanders for about the same price.

I've found that they are really particular to the amp/pre-amp combo driving them. I've heard the Bachs with Pioneer Elite electronics pushing them and I'd have to agree that it was pretty flat. I also heard them with a B&K system with very similar results. With Anthem driving them you can start to hear what they are capable of.

What will really make these sing is a Krell...I had a Krell integrated (KAV-300i) and that did the trick. I recently upgraded the Krell to their latest integrated model (KAV-400) and have stellar results.

The trouble with most of the Best Buy Magnolia locations is that they wont have anything like the Krell or Anthem on hand. It really makes me wonder if they know what they are doing...but that's another topic.

It's nice to know that maybe the Viennas have some potential. It's not nice to know that they may require components of Krell's quality to hear that potential.

[psonic]

Does anyone have any experience with these?

The Vienna Bach's are an excellent buy, $800 or so used. Excellent build (wood veneer) and fantastic sound with all but real hard stuff. They are somewhat laid back and better in a smaller room. They will not rock the house with thundering bass and dynamics, not a party speaker. That said, they bring more refinement than the usual $1000 speaker lik B&W, Paradigm, Energy. Imaging is excellent, speakers excelled with acoustic music, jazz. This speaker does well with tube amps or lower power amps, does not need Krell to sound good.

I would also recommend Dynaudio in this $1000-2000 price bracket.

The as mentioned Sonus Faber linup is also excellent, perhaps better (and more $$).

[BillB]

Jimmy C and shoe summed up how I feel about Vienna Acoustics' speakers:

Nice and easy to listen to but lacking in dynamics and resolution.

I lived with Mozarts, Haydns, and a Maestro for a few years and was missing the emotion in all of my favorite CDs. I switched out the speakers and all is well again.

Bill

[samgupta]

Hi Bill,


just curious...what did you switch to?

One thing I love about this audio hobby--everyone has different tastes and experiences. It's nice to hear what others think and what they have moved to.

-Sam

[nightflier]

Jimmy C and shoe summed up how I feel about Vienna Acoustics' speakers: Nice and easy to listen to but lacking in dynamics and resolution. I lived with Mozarts, Haydns, and a Maestro for a few years and was missing the emotion in all of my favorite CDs. I switched out the speakers and all is well again.

I'm also curious to find out what you switched them out with. I went to Magnolia this weekend and was quite impressed with the Beethoven's, although the Sonus Grand's were still better to my ears and cost less. Apparently, the Beethoven's have a compartment in the base that you can fill with lead shot, and that is supposed to make the speaker more inert. I had not seen this in a speaker before (only in stands). Kind of curious if that is audible as the speaker is quite heavy on its own.

Regarding Magnolia and Tweeter, it's a lot like buying a car. If you go on a slow rainy Tuesday morning, and you bring your own music they will most likely switch out the amps for you. I wasn't able to do that this weekend, but if I was in the market for new speakers, that's what I would do. For now, I'm quite happy with Dynaudio's. Definitely a contender in this price range. They tend to have more to offer with non-classical music.

Now if Magnolia/Tweeter really wanted to make a splash, they would take the best and nicest Sony-Klipsch-Monster (?) setup from BB and set it up in an A/B test room next to a fairly decent B&K-Vienna-Audioquest (?) setup and let the customers hear the difference directly. But then again they would probably get sued or kicked out of BB for that

By the way, Canary Audio makes mostly tube stuff: http://www.canaryaudio.com/ . For the quality, they are a pretty good value, it seems. They are also one of the few companies that make a tube CD player. My friend has it, and I must say it sounds very good (although I really haven't had the opportunity to do any blind testing with it).

[Woochifer]

Good point...I think what rubs me wrong about the Best Buy Magnolia Home Theater stores is that the idea is so good--expose mass market consumers to a taste of the higher end in a captive environment. But when they don't have the right equipment to demo the products to make them sound best (okay,I'll admint "best" is clearly subjective), it's like getting it 90% right and then stumbling at the end.

Just my opinion--I don't mean to sound like some sort of audio snob. I really like that people used to hearing Sony, Yamaha, etc. can hear the next step, regardless of what that is. Maybe just the fact that this thread is here is proof of the value the store is bringing.

The thing about the Magnolia Home Theater stores is that they are not geared towards the two-channel audiophile crowd. Their primary market is with home theater, home automation, and installed systems. That's why most of the amplification at those stores is with AV receivers, and why they display so many on-wall and in-wall speakers. Primare is the only two-channel amp that they carry at the Magnolia Home Theater ministores I've seen. The standalone Magnolia Audio Video stores carry the B&K, Krell, and McIntosh separates, but those are not stocked at the Magnolia HT ministores.

Even though the amp/speaker combinations are not always ideal, the consumers that do go through those Best Buy stores will still get plenty of benefit by venturing into the Magnolia section. For one thing, their demo rooms are acoustically treated and much quieter. That alone will produce a markedly better sound demo (and an ambient noise reduction of about 30 db). And if the consumers attribute what they hear more to the equipment than to the acoustical improvements, then BB/Magnolia could wind up selling a lot of higher priced gear, even though the demo would have also sounded pretty good with other lower spec gear as well.

[drseid]

Yeah, since my post on Canary I did some research... While I am not particularly a tube fan, they appear to use top quality components. I am sure they sound quite nice... Maybe they will be at next year's CES. I always like to try new stuff. :-)

[BillB]

samgupta and nightflier,

Let me first state my musical tastes: 99% rock, the remaining 1% is made up of electronica, jazz, and classical.

My system when I first bought the Mozarts (which also have a fillable chamber at the bottom) comprised of a Musical Fidelity A3 Integrated Amp and Rega Planet 2000 CD Player. I was a couple of years out of college, in my first house, just married, a Stereophile subscriber for 7 years and loving life. I was gearing up my system towards audiophile goals. I started buying recommended recordings based on sound quality. I loved showing off my system to family and friends. When it came time to sit down and listen to my favorite albums though, something just wasn't right. Now I know most rock recordings, especially current ones, aren't known for their sound quality. Rather they're made to be the loudest on the radio and sound good on a car stereo or Aiwa shelf system. But it's the music that brought me to the hobby of audio equipment so I shouldn't turn my back right?

Long story short, I built a room in my basement with music as the #1 priority but also a good multi-channel system for hi-rez formats and movies. Out went the MF Integrated and in came Rotel MCH separates. I added Haydns from a second system for surround duties and added a Maestro in the middle.

I lived with that setup for about 18 months. While I still managed 1 CD purchase week during that time I was sitting down to unwind and listen less and LESS. I was bored of the "audiophile" recordings and my rock CDs were uninvolving.

Out went the Vienna setup in favor of the most recent (v3) version of Paradigm's Reference Series. I auditioned the Studio 60v2 several times back when I ended up buying the Viennas. I should've gone with my gut then and saved some time. This time I auditioned the Studio 100v3 and it was EVERYTHING I remembered about the 60 and MORE. That kick drum TWACK was back, bass lines to make me drool, mids as clear as the Mozarts and highs that brought the excitement and life back to the recordings.

They don't image quite as well as the Mozarts but that was expected. They don't have the gorgeous wood either but they excel, for me in my system with my music in my room, in every other aspect. That was 17 months ago and I have ZERO regrets.

Some called it a downgrade, I saw it as a lateral move in the right direction for ME.

Bill

P.S. The Rega was the final piece to go, shortly after getting the Paradigms I erased that final smidge of audiophoolishness and picked up an Arcam CD73 that sounds worlds better.

[samgupta]

The thing about the Magnolia Home Theater stores is that they are not geared towards the two-channel audiophile crowd. Their primary market is with home theater, home automation, and installed systems. That's why most of the amplification at those stores is with AV receivers, and why they display so many on-wall and in-wall speakers. Primare is the only two-channel amp that they carry at the Magnolia Home Theater ministores I've seen. The standalone Magnolia Audio Video stores carry the B&K, Krell, and McIntosh separates, but those are not stocked at the Magnolia HT ministores.
l.


Woochifer, you're dead on with this comment. Had I stopped to think about it, the name itself (Magnolia HT) means they wont be too interested in 2-channel gear. Good perspective...

-Sam

[samgupta]

samgupta and nightflier,

Let me first state my musical tastes: 99% rock, the remaining 1% is made up of electronica, jazz, and classical.

<stuff deleted>

Out went the Vienna setup in favor of the most recent (v3) version of Paradigm's Reference Series. I auditioned the Studio 60v2 several times back when I ended up buying the Viennas. I should've gone with my gut then and saved some time. This time I auditioned the Studio 100v3 and it was EVERYTHING I remembered about the 60 and MORE. That kick drum TWACK was back, bass lines to make me drool, mids as clear as the Mozarts and highs that brought the excitement and life back to the recordings.

They don't image quite as well as the Mozarts but that was expected. They don't have the gorgeous wood either but they excel, for me in my system with my music in my room, in every other aspect. That was 17 months ago and I have ZERO regrets.

Some called it a downgrade, I saw it as a lateral move in the right direction for ME.

Bill

P.S. The Rega was the final piece to go, shortly after getting the Paradigms I erased that final smidge of audiophoolishness and picked up an Arcam CD73 that sounds worlds better.


Hi Bill,

Given your tastes, I think you definately made the right choice. The Vienna's will never be a "rock the house" style speaker in the models we are talking about. I haven't heard the upper end of their line, but the kind of bass your Studio 100s puts out really seems to be out of character for the Vienna line.

Sounds like you've had quite a bit of cool gear. Not to get off topic, but is the Arcam CD73 the same player they built the Solo around?

-Sam

[BillB]

Not to get off topic, but is the Arcam CD73 the same player they built the Solo around?

Not sure Sam but I'd guess that was case since the CD73 is their entry-level CD player. The Solo unit is quite nice having fiddled with one at the store. I think it would sound VERY nice in my bedroom...now how do I convince the wife :confused:

As I said the Paradigm were truly an upgrade for me because I'm enjoying my music again and that's what matters. When I throw on the latest Oasis, Ryan Adams, Kings Of Leon, or Shout Out Louds album the world is good. I'll never go against my gut again when buying audio equipment and hopefully I won't feel the need to do that for a WHILE.

Bill

[samgupta]

Yes, it is a pretty nice piece, especially for a bedroom where space might be at a premium vs. other areas of the house. I was able to play with one for about a week, and found that the design is really nice--everything works so well together and it's evident that a lot of thought went into it. Be careful what you pair with it though...I know that my Bach's didn't sound quite right with it.

So, you're not going to believe this one, but my wallet is now empty after running across a used pair of VA Beethoven's. I should have them at my place in about a week...after getting some time on them I'll let you know what I think.

[BillB]

Sam,

Congrats! What finish did you get them in? Definitely load the bottom of the cabinet. Sand is recommended over lead shot but you MUST make sure it's kid's playground sand as it doesn't contain moisture.

Also, when you get them, adjust the carpet spikes so that the speakers are raked back slightly. This will help time-align the drivers better. Give them plenty of room on all sides as well. I spent a lot of time with the Sumiko rep when Tweeter still carried Vienna. He helped me set up my Mozarts.

Bill

[samgupta]

Hi Bill,


Thanks for the advice...especially the idea of the dropping the back end a bit. I'll try that. I'm looking forward to getting these in. My house is pretty small and I'm hoping these aren't going to be overwhelming. It would be a shame if a speaker purchased force a move to a bigger home ;)

The seller had them in rosewood, which prompted the fast move. While the beech finish is nice, the rosewood is really beautiful IMO.

[BillB]

The rosewood IS the nicest finish.

Bill