Trying to decide on a/v receiver - I am going nucking futs!

[sjdistributors]

12 years since my last purchase of an a/v receiver. Over the past several days I have been totally consumed in the process of trying to decide on the right receiver. I have been looking at sooo many reviews, comments, specs, and so on. I have narrowed down my search to 3 candidates:

Denon 3805
Denon 4802R
Harman/Kardon 635

$700 - $750 will buy the 3805 and 635 new in box and the 4802R new but open box (display - not previously owned). Yes, that's pretty good deals on all three!

The 3805 and 635 are, to me, similar beasts. I like both - looks, quality, features and so on. QUESTION: is the 3805's 120 watts rated a little high as compared to the 635's 75 watts? Are Denon's numbers like Sony's or like HK's? HK at 75 watts blew my old Sony at 120 watts out of the water...so if Denon's ratings are like HK's then that would be quite a bit more power.

The 4802R seems to be a step up from the other 2 models but a couple years old. That means a little technology is missing (video upconversion, DPL IIx, bandwidth a little lower, etc).

What I can't quite figure is if the 4802R is indeed a 7.1 receiver or just a 5.1? It has the correct amount of speaker outputs (with the surround and back surround options) but is it made to decode/play in 7.1??? :confused:

I've gotta buy soon so I can continue on with life - and before my wife kicks me out for being on the computer 24/7 for the last week (OK, maybe not 24/7 but you get the picture - kid's and wife want their daddy back!) :)

ANY and ALL comments, pro's and con's, anyone knows about the above receivers would be GREATLY APPRECIATED in helping me make my decesion. I've hand hands on experience with the 635 but neither of the Denon's. No regrets with the 635 but just wondering if the grass is greener on the "Denon" side.

[N. Abstentia]

I'd add Onkyo and Rotel to the list and bump the others back a bit, are you married to Denon or HK for a reason?

[sjdistributors]

I'd add Onkyo and Rotel to the list and bump the others back a bit, are you married to Denon or HK for a reason?


Not stuck on Denon or HK if for no other reason than they seem to be mainline a/v receivers with good reputations.

I know we are dealing with sound here but looks matter too (hmmm, that just doesn't seem right, does it!). I took a quick look at Rotel...not sure if I could handle looking at it or not. To be honest, I haven't researched Onkyo much. What model (current or 1-2 years old) would be in the run with the above receiver?

[EdwardGein]

Wow if you can get the 3805 new in a box with remote & instructions for $700-750 including shipping and/or taxes go for it right away, Great price. I know you can get the 3801 which I have for $350-$425 on Ebay plus shipping with remote & instructions in very good to excellent used condition, most weeks. If you have a universal remote, you then can sell your Denon remote on Ebay for another $50-$70. I'd jump at the 3805 for that price.

[Lexmark3200]

I'd add Onkyo and Rotel to the list and bump the others back a bit, are you married to Denon or HK for a reason?

I agree with Mr. N ---- definitely add Onkyo to your list; their receivers are solidly built and are made with quality internal components and I would, personally, narrow my search down to between Denon and Onkyo.

[EdwardGein]

I would jump at the chance to get the 3805 if you can get it new with remote & manual for your $700-750 if it includes shipping and tax. Otherwise you might want to get a used Denon 3801 with remote & manual in very good or better condition on Ebay from a reputable seller for $350-$425 and shipping. If you have a universal remote you then can sell the Denon remote for another $50-$70.

[paul_pci]

Yamaha rules!

[Lexmark3200]

Yamaha rules!

Yamaha does indeed make a good product, Paul, no doubt; I would put them third as receivers to look at after Denon and Onkyo definitely.....out of this price class, what can be considered are units from Integra, Rotel.....but I still think Onkyo and Denon will give any home theater system the kick in the ass it needs.......

But Yammie is definitely on my backup list of receivers......

[evil__betty]

Onkyo really does make a great product. Have a look at the TXSR702 - THX certified, component video up conversion, 100W high current power, and kick ass looks to boot. Check them out!

[Woochifer]

First off, are these receivers offered through authorized retailers or are they mail order specials? If you buy from any unauthorized vendor, you lose the factory warranty. (Most mail order houses that offer "great" deals can do so because they are unauthorized) Fortunately, with authorized dealers, the warranty is valid even with demo units.

As far as which receiver to get, it depends on what you're looking for and what how your room is setup. If you got your sofa bumped up against the backwall, forget about "7.1" (and keep in mind that true 7.1 does not exist for home audio, it's more a marketing term than anything; the most you can get is DTS ES 6.1, and the "7" in "7.1" is nothing more than the back surround channel split into two identical monophonic outputs). Just focus on getting the 5.1 alignment right, and you'll do fine. All three receivers you're looking at are "7.1" models.

Choosing between these receivers depends on which areas you're willing to trade off. Generally, the 4802R has a nicer amplifier than the other models, and it has a parallel analog bass management circuit, which is nice because it allows you to use the subwoofer with analog sources and not have to do any redundant A-D/D-A conversions (most receivers do the bass management entirely in the digitial domain, even with analog sources).

On the other hand, the 3805 and 635 have less rugged constrution and capacity in the amplifer, but include auto room calibration/setup, video upconversion, and a couple more decoding formats. If you're a home theater newbie, I would recommend the newer models because of the auto calibration feature. It makes the setup a lot simpler, because otherwise you're using test tones and SPL meters, and manually setting up the distances/delay timing. The parametric equalization function may or may not help, depending on the speakers that you use and the acoustical properties of your room. Plus, if you plan on getting a HDTV and want to use the receiver to control all of your video sources, then the upconversion feature is very useful for sorting out the component, S-video, and composite video signals that you might have going into the TV.

The 4802R will give you a slight bump up in sound and build quality, but a demo unit for a model that was first introduced about three years makes me nervous. Receivers are generally more reliable than other components, but the switches, buttons, and connectors can wear down with frequent use; and if they got played with, disconnected, reconnected, and played with a lot in the demo room, that does increase the likelihood of something wearing out or breaking off.

harman/kardon had some major reliability problems a few years with most of their models, and Onkyo and Marantz also had some reliability hiccups a few years ago with their midlevel models. Over the last couple of years, the only receivers I've heard about that have major reliability problems have been the Sony Digital Drive receivers. Over the years, Denon has had more of a consistent reliability record (they had a slight hiccup when they changed ownership and production a couple of years ago), and Yamaha's probably been the most consistently reliable brand of the bunch.

[alexthegreat]

Hi there are a lot to choose from out there but from me to you. look at the onkyo I have a TXDS797 it does everything and has pre-outs for front, rear ,back sub,and multi channels which you could in the future run out to a tube preamp & tube amp which than sounds great a lot better than any solid state I have ever heard I know it sound crazy but it will work I run DTS from my onkyo to my pas 3 to a dynaco ST 70 for the front and run rears from the onkyo to a Eico ST 70 that run my multi and my rears and run the sub-out to a golden tube audio SE 60 which run the subs in my lascala hope this helps I think you can pick a TxDS797 up for around 2500.00 it was at one time supposed to be the best and is still sought after by many Regards alexthegtreat

[EdwardGein]

Are there any receivers or devices that can actually set up your EQ's/bass/treble levels?
I know that SPL's set up your decible levels (even though I'm happier with the results I got by ignoring them and using my ears) but anything for EQ's?

The Acoustics in my enclosed bedroom are totally nuts & right now the only thing that tolerable in regards to a sub for some reason is a 100 watt Acoustic Research 108PSB Sub.

[Woochifer]

Are there any receivers or devices that can actually set up your EQ's/bass/treble levels?
I know that SPL's set up your decible levels (even though I'm happier with the results I got by ignoring them and using my ears) but anything for EQ's?

The Acoustics in my enclosed bedroom are totally nuts & right now the only thing that tolerable in regards to a sub for some reason is a 100 watt Acoustic Research 108PSB Sub.

The 635 and 3805 both have parametric equalizers built into the auto calibration features. They setup the EQ filtering automatically by identifying the largest frequency response deviations, setting the center frequency and appropriate bandwidth for the EQ, and attenuation levels. Yamaha and Pioneer's midlevel models also have the parametric filters included with their auto calibration. Not sure about whether or not Onkyo's auto calibration feature includes the parametric equalization or not. In general, they've been behind the curve with adding the auto calibration to their receivers.

[EdwardGein]

The 635 and 3805 both have parametric equalizers built into the auto calibration features. They setup the EQ filtering automatically by identifying the largest frequency response deviations, setting the center frequency and appropriate bandwidth for the EQ, and attenuation levels. Yamaha and Pioneer's midlevel models also have the parametric filters included with their auto calibration. Not sure about whether or not Onkyo's auto calibration feature includes the parametric equalization or not. In general, they've been behind the curve with adding the auto calibration to their receivers.

Wow thanks for telling me this. I'll investigaate the 3805 further. How exactrly do these work & are you satisfied with the results, anyone?

[Dolby]

I've got a Onkyo TX-DS595 that I got as a gift in August 2001. It was, as far as a I know, the first amplifier out in South Africa with Dolby Pro Logic II as well. Anyway, back to my point ...

At that stages I researched everything in the price range and settled on this. Nothing could touch it in the price here, and 4 years down the line it's going strong! The thing is built like a tank (and this was a budget model) and I'd get another Onkyo any day. Also, it's been running my 4 ohm MBQuart speakers with ease.

[musicman1999]

if sound quality is your number one priority and you dont care much for features,then look at the cambridge audio 540r.i have had one in heavy use for over a year and have had no problems at all.during my audition process it bested any yamaha,onkyo,or h/k that i tried.to keep it fair i kept all the recievers around the same price point.denon 3805 was close sound wise but cost nearly double here in canada.the unit is very light on features but very high on sound.
try it,you will like it.
thanks
bill

[csukasem]

I would propose considering power amp. This means that starting to go for separates(brand new or used ones). I had experienced several receivers and eventually I ended with separates. The money I spent changing from one to another receiver was a lot.

Good luck.

Sukasem

[GMichael]

Wow thanks for telling me this. I'll investigaate the 3805 further. How exactrly do these work & are you satisfied with the results, anyone?

The auto set up on my Yamaha works very well. I would bet that the Denon works equally as well.

[GMichael]

12 years since my last purchase of an a/v receiver. Over the past several days I have been totally consumed in the process of trying to decide on the right receiver. I have been looking at sooo many reviews, comments, specs, and so on. I have narrowed down my search to 3 candidates:

Denon 3805
Denon 4802R
Harman/Kardon 635

$700 - $750 will buy the 3805 and 635 new in box and the 4802R new but open box (display - not previously owned). Yes, that's pretty good deals on all three!

The 3805 and 635 are, to me, similar beasts. I like both - looks, quality, features and so on. QUESTION: is the 3805's 120 watts rated a little high as compared to the 635's 75 watts? Are Denon's numbers like Sony's or like HK's? HK at 75 watts blew my old Sony at 120 watts out of the water...so if Denon's ratings are like HK's then that would be quite a bit more power.

The 4802R seems to be a step up from the other 2 models but a couple years old. That means a little technology is missing (video upconversion, DPL IIx, bandwidth a little lower, etc).

What I can't quite figure is if the 4802R is indeed a 7.1 receiver or just a 5.1? It has the correct amount of speaker outputs (with the surround and back surround options) but is it made to decode/play in 7.1??? :confused:

I've gotta buy soon so I can continue on with life - and before my wife kicks me out for being on the computer 24/7 for the last week (OK, maybe not 24/7 but you get the picture - kid's and wife want their daddy back!) :)

ANY and ALL comments, pro's and con's, anyone knows about the above receivers would be GREATLY APPRECIATED in helping me make my decesion. I've hand hands on experience with the 635 but neither of the Denon's. No regrets with the 635 but just wondering if the grass is greener on the "Denon" side.

Don't let it drive you nuts. Sure, there's alot to choose from. But it's a fun time checking them all out. And with technology the way it is, you'll most likely end up with something that makes you very happy no matter which one you pick.
Keep asking, reading and listening. Don't be in a hurry.

[Geno1]

Just a FYI I have had nothing but problems with Harmon over the last few years. I have returned 3 receivers and 2 DVD players or have had them in for warrenty work.
I recently went through the same problem of trying to locate a good replacment.
The Denon products are great but why don't you look at Integra.
I would suggest the Integra DTR 6.5 here is the link for you.
www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DTR-6.5&class=Receiver&p=i
This unit would set you back around $930 but would be well worth every penny.

[JES14]

All 3 are great HT units. But unless you're looking for a unit with HDMI/DVI, the 4802R would be superior.

[sjdistributors]

Hey, thanks everybody for the good feedback.

Using the feedback, I started to look at a few more models:

Marantz SR7500
Yamaha RX-V2500
Onkyo TX SR702

Add these along with the Denon 3805 and HK 635 and I would say I probably couldn't go wrong with any of them. I want to emphasize this point - ANY of the receivers I have mentioned are certainly worthy receivers. Now it is down to personal preference.

I like a clean front, so the Onkyo moves to the bottom of the list.

I also like a clean display (show me minimum info - only what is going on) so the Yamaha drops down too. Yamaha has a lot of info lit up all the time (eg. different decoding types, ect - yes, I am getting picky here).
While I like the HK 2-tone look, basic black would probably withstand time-dating better. I noticed HK older models that were not run of the mill during their time really look outdated now.

I like new too (both technology and not previously owned/opened) so the Denon 4802R loses out on that feature. For the money - this is a tough one to let go of...

I guess that leaves me favoring the Denon 3805 and Marantz 7500 but certainly not exclduing the others. Right now, the Marantz is going to cost me a little more than the 3805 but I am still searching.

Once again, thanks to all...I will post again soon!

[N. Abstentia]

This might be the best one of all:

http://outlawaudio.com/products/1070.html

[Astro]

yamaha rx-v2500!!!!!!!!!!!
just get it over all of those, you wont be disapointed

[GMichael]

yamaha rx-v2500!!!!!!!!!!!
just get it over all of those, you wont be disapointed

Well, you wouldn't be disapointed. It's a great unit. But there are others just as good and better if you want to spend the $$.

[sjdistributors]

After taking the HK 635 for a test drive, I picked up a Denon 3805 off of eBay.

Before I go any further, I must say I really liked the HK. Sound was the richest/fullest sound I have heard. Latest decoding, plenty of power (way under rated when compared to other brands with 100-135 watts), easy set up, nice remote, and not too bad looking either. So why did I take it back?? CC wouldn't price match...$1099.00 their price...J & R Audio has it for $699 shipped. So I took it back knowing I have a source to pick up a brand new one at a terrific price. ONE thing I really wished the 635 had is another set of speaker outputs - either surround B or main B.

Now, concerning the 3805...bottom line is that I am disappointed. I read lots of reviews the posts that had high praise for this receiver. While their is a lot to like about it, I simply don't like the sound that I am getting - especially when compared to the HK. To me (emphasize the "me") the sound is, for a lack of better words, thin. Not only thin, but it didn't seem as powerful as the HK. I have tried a lot of different settings but nothing satisfies. Is this a normal sound for Denon receivers (ie: thin sounding, not full and rich)?? If not, someone please suggest what I might could adjust to get a fuller sound. I really thought this would be the receiver I ended up with but it looks like it will find its place back on eBay...

So, what about Yamaha and Marantz - do either one of them favor the HK sound vs the Denon sound? I wouldn't mind trying another receiver or two before buying the "keeper" but if the sound is as thin as the Denon, it would be a waste of time.

Comments wanted...

Thanks

[N. Abstentia]

Personally I think just about anything sounds better than Denon (didn't I already say that once? Listen to me from now on :) ) but you obviously like the H/K and I don't think any $700 Marantz or Yamaha will sound better. If you like the H/K, get it.

[RoyY51]

The Perfect Vision (Sept., Oct. 05) is featuring the Yamaha RX-V657 receiver under the front page heading "World's Greatest AV Bargain?".Reviewer Chris Martens states that "Yamaha's RX-V657 is, by a significant margin, the best-sounding affordable AVR I've ever heard, and I think it will leave many card-carrying audiophiles shaking their heads in disbelief." At only $550.00, this would leave you a lot of wiggle-room for upgrading other components in your system.

Is Mr. Martens being overly enthusiastic, or is this the real deal? Has anyone out there actually heard this receiver? If this is the real deal, it would seem that it could safely be added to this poster's "short list"

[accastil]

first of all, you have to decide...are you buying for music or are you buying for HT? or are you buying for both music and HT? for HT, nothing beats Yamaha. for music, nothing beats Marantz. for both HT and music enjoyment, you may consider HK, Denon and Onkyo. any of these 3 brands are good. decisions would just vary due to subjectivity of the listener.

[Lexmark3200]

How can someone definitely, subjectively off the top of their head say "For HT, NOTHING beats Yamaha....."? In my estimation, for Home Theater, "nothing beats" an Onkyo receiver -- but thats my view and people wont agree while some others will.

Your pick should come down to three brands:

-Onkyo
-Denon
-Yamaha

Stay FAR AWAY from Kenwood, JVC, Sony....I would say Pioneer too, but there are some diehard fans in here of their Elite line; Im not one of them.

Of course, you could also look at higher priced models from the likes of Onkyo's own Integra or perhaps NAD or upper-tier brands like that which should perform just as well.

[Geoffcin]

After taking the HK 635 for a test drive, I picked up a Denon 3805 off of eBay.

Before I go any further, I must say I really liked the HK. Sound was the richest/fullest sound I have heard. Latest decoding, plenty of power (way under rated when compared to other brands with 100-135 watts), easy set up, nice remote, and not too bad looking either. So why did I take it back?? CC wouldn't price match...$1099.00 their price...J & R Audio has it for $699 shipped. So I took it back knowing I have a source to pick up a brand new one at a terrific price. ONE thing I really wished the 635 had is another set of speaker outputs - either surround B or main B.

Now, concerning the 3805...bottom line is that I am disappointed. I read lots of reviews the posts that had high praise for this receiver. While their is a lot to like about it, I simply don't like the sound that I am getting - especially when compared to the HK. To me (emphasize the "me") the sound is, for a lack of better words, thin. Not only thin, but it didn't seem as powerful as the HK. I have tried a lot of different settings but nothing satisfies. Is this a normal sound for Denon receivers (ie: thin sounding, not full and rich)?? If not, someone please suggest what I might could adjust to get a fuller sound. I really thought this would be the receiver I ended up with but it looks like it will find its place back on eBay...

So, what about Yamaha and Marantz - do either one of them favor the HK sound vs the Denon sound? I wouldn't mind trying another receiver or two before buying the "keeper" but if the sound is as thin as the Denon, it would be a waste of time.

Comments wanted...

Thanks

Rich & thin are discriptions of a shifted frequency responce. If your Denon sounds "thin" or lacking in bass, then it's broken in some way. Perhaps you were listening with the loudness or midnight setting on the HK, and without it on the Denon? I've done some pretty extensive testing of receivers and founf they sound much more alike than different.

[Chief Wiggum]

IMO the"Denon sound" sucks!

I had a 2802 that I used to power a Paraidgm speaker setup. I had 2 Monitor 7's, a CC-370 Center, and 2 ADP 370's for surround. With the Denon these speakers sounded very thin and lifeless. So I went to me local dealer and listened to some better equipment such as Pioneer Elite, Sunfire, Rotel, NAD, Arcam and B & K. I ended up replacing my denon 2802 with a NAD T753. The NAD cost me $1000 retail and the sound is light years better than the Denon. The NAD actually does my Paradigm's justice.

The Denon 2802 was rated at 90 X 6 and the NAD T53 was rated at 70 x 6 but the NAD was much more powerful and the power was clean power that made my speakers sound so much better. After having owned the 2802 and a few other Denon's and then listening to the other brands I mentioned I would never by another Denon again and I'd advise others to take their power ratings with a grain of salt.

As for the other brands you mentioned.....Yamaha.. little too bright for my taste

HK............ Doesn't sound much better than denon.

Marantz.........Never listened to any.


I would definitely recommend NAD over all these brands though. NAD may not have all the bells and whistles that these Japanese brands do and it may be too plain looking for some, but the sound is far superior. NAD amps are much more powerful and clean than any of these brands. And the best thing is that some NAD units can be had for the same price as models by the brands you suggested.

[accastil]

you are right man, its just a matter of personal preferrence..all those brands are superbrands..well, if youd ask for my opinion, i like the sound of marantz. it has the punch and the power that no other brand can deliver, not even the highest end lines of denon and yamaha.

[smoothjazz]

HK all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GMichael]

WOW! Almost as many opinions as there are posts. Hope these all help you to decide that you have the pick the one that makes YOU happy. No matter what you pick, some will say that you made the best choice. Others will say that you made a huge mistake. So go out, listen, and make you happy.

Pick your speakers first and get something that is rated to drive them. Make sure that it does eveything you want it to do and has the inputs and outputs that you need for your system.