Harmon Kardon DPR2005 - deal of the year? [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

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traut
08-12-2005, 04:24 PM
Is this the deal of the year, or am I missing something? Fry's Electronics has the HK DPR 2005 on sale for $499 (original MSRP $1799!), due to it being discontinued. I saw this in the paper today, and I've been in the market for a new A/V receiver, so I'm thinking I've got to pick one up, at least to try it out. I did a search for it on these boards, but could not find any info (just one review, and the guy seems to like it). Its amplification is done through a "digital path," I'm not sure what that means, anybody know? Here's the link to the owner's manual: http://manuals.harman.com/hk/Owner%27s%20Manual/DPR%202005%20OM-05-27-04%20.pdf and here's the product description from onecall.com: http://www.onecall.com/ProductDisplay.mpt?ProductID=23876&FEID=410&PMNID=1144 , it seems to have all of the bells and whistles, I'm just wondering why they're letting them go for so cheap.

Anyway, I've been a longtime lurker on these boards, I've learned a lot from skimming through this site, and I'd appreciate any info or knowledge that you guys can provide.

Oh, BTW, right now I'm running B&W 604 s3's, w/ a matching center, and some old JBLs as surrounds. Driving everything with an old Technics DD/DTS 5.1 receiver, source is an el cheapo pioneer DVD player. If I dive in and pick up the HK, I'll let ya'll know how it works out.

Breezer88888
08-12-2005, 06:18 PM
Why don't I ever come across these kinds of deals?? The HK 2005 will be a serious improvement over your Technics (no disrespect). I've been tracking the factory refurbished models on eBay for a while and the auctions are always much higher than $500. A store like Fry's, and at $500, you really aren't taking much risk because its not a final sale, right? Even if it were, I doubt you can find a better receiver upgrade for that price. Sorry that I can't help you with the "digital path" that you are referring to, but I believe the high current amplification is very clean. Home Theater magazine did a review of the HK 1005 in April. Maybe you can still look up the write up on www.hometheatermag.com
Good luck,
Breezer

traut
08-13-2005, 07:01 AM
I called up Fry's after I posted last night, and the salesman said that they had 2 units left (they started the day with about 20), so I went ahead and picked one up. Like you said, the sale's not final (30 day return policy), so I figured "what the hell?" Also checked around online, and the best it was being offered for (from an unauthorized dealer, no less) is about $800.

Like you said Breezer, it is a "serious improvement over my Technics," and I figured it would be. It really takes the B&W's to another level. I think the biggest difference that I hear is the seperation between instruments, and the depth of the soundstage has increased tremendously. "On the Run" from Floyd's DSotM was freaking me out! It has more bells and whistles than I will probably ever use, it even has bass management for the multi-channel analog inputs. Some drawbacks are that the auto-cal setup only does output levels, (no delay, room eq, etc.), and there are no HDMI/DVI in/outputs which is where it looks like the future of video is going, like it or not.

I'm a little nervous about quality defects though. The salesman told me the price is so low because HK is discontinuing the unit, but I could not find anything on the net about that, and no replacement has been announced. So I guess that I'll play the hell out of it for the next 30 days and if it lasts I'll hold on to it. HK has got a 2 yr warranty on receivers, so that's a little comforting too. If you're in the market for a new receiver and there's a Fry's Electronics in your area, I recommend checking this model out.

L.J.
08-13-2005, 08:43 AM
I use to live close to a fry's. O.K. I use to live there. Come on fry's is off the hook. I was on the market for a new recv. about 6 months ago and ran across a similar HK deal.(Forgot Which model) Anyways I ended going with Denon because the HK didnt suite all my needs. Might be a different case with you though. I used to check the local paper and find great deals on all kinds of electronics at fry's. I live about 70 miles from the nearest fry's now so those days are over. If you like the product and can get it for a steal go for it.

Breezer88888
08-13-2005, 07:06 PM
Nice going Traut!

I here you about the HDMI thing. I have a Denon from 3 years ago and I connect the HDMI from my upconverting Sony DVD player directly to the TV, and use the Digital Coax cable from the DVD player to the Receiver to feed my speakers. I lose on-screen display from my receiver, but that's a small sacrifice.

Sounds like your B&W's have new life due to the HK 2005. I have to say that I'm envious, and I want to hear what you decide to do in 29 days. But seriously, at that price I'd stick with it.
Breezer

traut
08-15-2005, 08:41 AM
Sounds like your B&W's have new life due to the HK 2005. I have to say that I'm envious, and I want to hear what you decide to do in 29 days. But seriously, at that price I'd stick with it.
Breezer
Yeah, I listened to more music this weekend than I have in a long time, probably since I bought the speakers. So, as long as the thing doesn't crap out on me in the next 27 days, I'll probably hold on to it.

After becoming more familiar with the unit, I'm a little puzzled why the MSRP was so high ($1799). With the features/wattage, etc. that it has it seems more comparible to a Yamaha 2500 or a Denon 3805, so you'd think that list should've been more in the 900 - 1200 $ range in order to compete. Are HK's prices usually that much higher than the competitions? If so, it's a wonder how they stay in business.

Breezer88888
08-15-2005, 06:30 PM
I'm a Denon owner myself. I have the AVR 1082, that's the clone to their 3802. Denon puts out duplicate models similar to how car makers put out sister cars (Ford Taurus/Sable, you get the picture). For whatever reason, the 1082 was more than $100 less than the widely followed 3802. I'll never figure out why. But by now, I just don't care anymore because I know its waaaay beyond me. As for HK, its always had a stellar reputation. Maybe that's why there's such a premium on their high current receivers, and that's maybe why I doubt that it will "crap out" any time soon. But have fun trying!!

sjdistributors
08-15-2005, 06:42 PM
I just took a quick glance at the specs for the 2005 (as compared to the avr635 - one of the newer models out with a retail of $1299)

the 2005 has a THD that seems to be on the high side (.15) - high compared to other "quality" receivers
the 635 has a THD of .07

No video upconversion on the 2005

the 2005 and 635 have different amplifiers, power supplys, DSP processors, and weigh quite a bit different - 41 pounds for the 635 compared to the 2005 weighing only 21 pounds.

I tend to agree with your statement about the retail seeming a little on the high side. In the end, probably a nice receive for the money though.

traut
08-16-2005, 08:52 AM
the 2005 has a THD that seems to be on the high side (.15) - high compared to other "quality" receivers
the 635 has a THD of .07.
What exactly does this number (Total Harmonic Distortion) mean, anyway? I don't think I've ever seen an explanation of it.


the 2005 and 635 have different amplifiers, power supplys, DSP processors, and weigh quite a bit different - 41 pounds for the 635 compared to the 2005 weighing only 21 pounds.
According to the Hometheatermag.com reviewer, ( http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/405hk/ ) the weight difference can be attributed to the fact that the 2005 uses digital path amplification. I wonder if this is the same type of technology used in the PS Audio HCA-2 amplifier.

traut
08-16-2005, 09:32 AM
the 2005 has a THD that seems to be on the high side (.15) - high compared to other "quality" receivers
the 635 has a THD of .07
found this on the "secrets of home theater" website's review ( http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_2/ps-audio-hca-2-power-amplifier-6-2002.html ) of the PSAudio HCA-2 amp:
"Harmonic distortion spectra, shown below, indicate a higher than average amount of distortion. Again, this is typical of low-negative feedback amplifiers. A second function of negative feedback is to lower the total amount of distortion. That is why mass market receivers have low distortion specifications. Lots of negative feedback. The problem is that, when negative feedback is overused, it increases the amount of higher-order odd-ordered distortion (7th and 9th for example), which gives a harsh sound. That type of use has given negative feedback a bad name. Proper use gives detail to the sound a bit more edge, but not irritating. The HCA-2 has the detail, but it is not as noticeable. Amplifiers that use proper amounts of negative feedback have the same amount of detail, but it is a little more forward, more noticeable. It all depends on design goals and personal sound preferences of the consumer. I tend to like the warm and fuzzy sound of tubes, and of something like the HCA-2. The use of negative feedback reduces the gain, so amplifiers with negative feedback tend to have more gain stages. The HCA-2 doesn't use much negative feedback, so only two gain stages are necessary."

Could this be why the DPR-2005 has a higher THD spec than other "quality" receivers in it's price range?

Breezer88888
08-16-2005, 07:10 PM
Hi Traut,

I can hear the wheels spinning in your head. But I know its a process we all go thru. The process of assuring ourselves that we have just purchased, with our hard earned cash, and after much pain-staking research as humanly possible, the unequivcal best gadget that will suit your needs, wants, nay desires bar none!! Well we can try, right?

Here are my thoughts, and I specifically want to address the video upconversion point. If you already have a decent progressive scan dvd player, don't sweat it. I believe the HK 635 upconversion only goes to 480p, the same as progressive scan anyway. Even digital TVs don't display progressive scan, they simply make use of component video inputs to accept the best possible signal. But only 480 interlaced is achieved. So unless you have an ED or HDTV, its really not worth straining your brain on this one.

As for THD, my opinion is that perceived differences in this spec would arise only at very loud volume levels. If others in this forum can shed light on this, please throw down a post. Okay Pink Floyd or not, are you really going to consistently play at such levels? Can eviction or public flogging ensue? Btw, I think you may be on to something about the HK 2005's higher THD figure being due to its departure from industry over-use of negative feedback. But in general, numbers in the hands of marketing people are tricky. Back to another automotive analogy. Its not just about horsepower. Torque is actually more important, but less publicized. And then you need to ask - over what rpm range? And its really horsepower relative to the weight of the car isn't it?

In hobbies such as ours, we need to decipher specs because in the absence of a true blindfold test in which to demo gadgets before we buy them, we simply don't have a basis for comparison. I've lost track of how many days its been (about 25 more to go?), but I am humbled by your efforts to shed any remnants of buyer's remorse. I've been there too, belieeeeve me I have. But at some point, stop comparing and enjoy the fruits of this great hobby.
Breezer