Legal

[EdwardGein]

I think we're getting too politically correct here & to shut down threads for politcally correct reasons for things that are simply untrue is ridiculous. Specifically, while it is illegal to sell copies of movies, it is not illegal to be able to make your own backup copies of DVD's. Repeat it is not illegal. Therefore it is ridiculous to stop people exchanging ideas how they accomplish this. We're not talking about downloading movies off the internet either.

Do you want to stop people from talking about DVD+R & DVD+RW's too as well as advertising. What exactly do you think people are using DVD+R's for? Are Sony, Maxell, TDK, etc. speading illegality?

[noddin0ff]

It's not the copying per se that is illegal. It is the decrypting that is illegal. But don't take my word for it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA

[N. Abstentia]

noddin0ff is correct, if it's your home movies you filmed you can copy them all day long. However if it's an encrypted DVD (any Hollywood release) then technically it's illegal to copy it because you're breaking the copy protection..whether you bought it or not.

[Eric Z]

Well said NA- it is definitely illegal to make copies of a copyrighted DVDs. Now, will you get arrested for doing it? Probably not, but it's still definitely illegal.

[noddin0ff]

Just to be clear, Eric, it is not the duplication of copyrighted material that is illegal. There are fair use reasons that would allow duplication. What is illegal is defeating the copy protection. Copy protection is not copyright. The DMCA made it illegal to defeat the encryption which provides copy protection. If you could make a copy without defeating the copy protection then you would not be breaking the law. However, copy protection makes it impossible for individuals to make fair use duplicates of copyrighted material. Copy that?

[Eric Z]

copy that, noddinoff- thanks for the clarification! i found an article that supports your points as well.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3513_7-5128652.html

[EdwardGein]

Without getting into debates about this what exactly are Sony, Maxell & other places who manufacture DVDR/RW's doing differnetly from the people who manufacture & sell bongs which is what Chong of Cheech & Chong got arrested for- apparently its illegal to sell bongs online or something. Do you really think that people are buying millions of DVDR's too make exactly what as there are not many DVD's that aren't encrypted. Furthermore, why then is there free software online to decrypt stuff? This doesn't make any sense to me. It reminds me, when I was younger, I don't know if they're doing this today, when I was watching Yankee games on my local channel WPIX in NY, the announcer would always say (and this was before VCR's were invented) "reproduction of this game is forbidden by the commissioner of baseball."

[N. Abstentia]

Selling DVD-R media is not exactly in the same league as selling illegal drugs. DVD-R media can be used to backup personal data, record personal home movies, transfer your VHS/laserdisc collection to DVD for your own personal use and hundreds of other uses. Nowhere does it say you HAVE to use them to illegally copy movies.

What you're saying is the same as saying you go to the gun store and buy a gun then you get arrested as you leave because the police assumed you were going to shoot somebody since you bought a gun. It don't work that way.

[EdwardGein]

I'm saying that aproximate 85% of people use DVDR's for making personal decrypted copies of movies. I don't have a problem with studios protecting their investments & trying to stop people from selling bootleg copies but sorry, when it comes to making backup DVD's for yourself of commercial releases from releases you buy or rent there is absolutely no difference of making CDR's for personal use. I would think lawmakers would have something more important to do then to invade someone's privacy and stop him from downloading software programs that are available legally and for free online like DVD Shrink. I'm surprised that your one of the people who's so against making decrypted copies from movies when it appears you yourself do it and in fact recommended DVD Shrink to me in the first place!

:D :D :D :D

[Mr Peabody]

I can see why Hollywood wants copy protection but it would be nice, and I think it should be legal, for me to be able to make a back up copy for myself. I pay an average of $20.00 for my kids annomated movies and now we have a DVD player in the van so I would like to make copies for the van use so the original don't get trashed. I paid extra for a DVD burner on my computer to do this, boy did I feel funny when the error message popped up telling me the DVD couldn't be recorded because of copy guard. So, I either find a way to record the back ups or be very careful with the original.

[N. Abstentia]

Oh yeah, I copy movies all the time. I was just explaining to you why it's not illegal for stores to sell blank DVD media.

[EdwardGein]

Sorry I misinterpreted your statement. Thanks again for telling me about DVD Shrink.

[EdwardGein]

My heart bleeds for people like Brad Pitt who might only make $5 million instead of $15 million for piracy! As a good friend, RIP, said to me when we were in college and had a big exam coming & instead of studying I was watching the baseball game on TV because I was a Tom Seaver/NY Mets fan- "You think Tom Seaver gives a damn about you."!

Personally, I have little respect for the movie and music industry. Did you know that originally the movie industry tried to make VCR's illegal and that turned into a billion dollar industry for them. They basically view any technological advances that benefit people like you and me as threats and try to inanely stop it. Yeah sueing a 12 year old girl for downloading mp3's really accomplishes alot. Recently, some high Washington DC official (this was in the paper here) came to LA and spoke about the evils of downloading to some high school kids who took it all as a joke. I'm sure most of us would be willing to pay a license to download an unlimited amount of songs that we could burn as CD's for say $250 a year or so and the record industry would make money hand in foot. Instead they think 100% of nothing is worth more than 5% of something. I'm curious how they managed to get this supposed law on DVD's out when I don't see a difference on VHS tapes.

[noddin0ff]

I'm saying that aproximate 85% of people use DVDR's for making personal decrypted copies of movies. I don't have a problem with studios protecting their investments & trying to stop people from selling bootleg copies but sorry, when it comes to making backup DVD's for yourself of commercial releases from releases you buy or rent there is absolutely no difference of making CDR's for personal use.

EdG- You could benifit by reading this
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
and
http://www.protectfairuse.org/archive/consumers/now_playing.html

*noddin0ff mounts soapbox*

Making a 'backup' copy of something that you RENT is stealing. As the first sentence from the webpage states, the right to make copies is afforded to the owner. That means you purchase or otherwise own the material to be copied. If you buy something, copy it, and then sell it, technically you have no right to retain the copy. Sure, lots of people make copies of stuff they rent. Lots of people speed too. Speed limits are good for society. So is copyright law. So is respecting copyrights.

I don't have a lot of pity for the losses of the multimillionaire artists either. But I do have pity for the real talent of emerging new artists who are putting all they have into making something of value. But wealthy or not, if you make a product, create a song, write a book, you have a right to profit from your efforts. To believe otherwise simply goes against what makes the US a great nation. Copyright allows artists control over their creations. It also helps artists to profit from their creations. If you would feel uncomfortable walking into a minimart and stealing a pack of gum, I don't see why you wouldn't feel uncomfortable renting from Netflix, making a copy, and returning it.

The US constitution reads in Article I, section 8 "Congress shall have the power....To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries"

The whole point of protecting and RESPECTING copyright is to promote advancement of these arts. If artists can't profit, they can't produce. If you want artists to make music or movies you should buy products of their efforts.

You may notice the bit about "for limited times." Art is not copyrighted forever. After a while it becomes public domain. That seems fair too.

The DMCA and the laws against defeating copy protection, however, are idiotic.

*dismount soapbox*

[GMichael]

EdG- You could benifit by reading this
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
and
http://www.protectfairuse.org/archive/consumers/now_playing.html

*noddin0ff mounts soapbox*

Making a 'backup' copy of something that you RENT is stealing. As the first sentence from the webpage states, the right to make copies is afforded to the owner. That means you purchase or otherwise own the material to be copied. If you buy something, copy it, and then sell it, technically you have no right to retain the copy. Sure, lots of people make copies of stuff they rent. Lots of people speed too. Speed limits are good for society. So is copyright law. So is respecting copyrights.

I don't have a lot of pity for the losses of the multimillionaire artists either. But I do have pity for the real talent of emerging new artists who are putting all they have into making something of value. But wealthy or not, if you make a product, create a song, write a book, you have a right to profit from your efforts. To believe otherwise simply goes against what makes the US a great nation. Copyright allows artists control over their creations. It also helps artists to profit from their creations. If you would feel uncomfortable walking into a minimart and stealing a pack of gum, I don't see why you wouldn't feel uncomfortable renting from Netflix, making a copy, and returning it.

The US constitution reads in Article I, section 8 "Congress shall have the power....To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries"

The whole point of protecting and RESPECTING copyright is to promote advancement of these arts. If artists can't profit, they can't produce. If you want artists to make music or movies you should buy products of their efforts.

You may notice the bit about "for limited times." Art is not copyrighted forever. After a while it becomes public domain. That seems fair too.

The DMCA and the laws against defeating copy protection, however, are idiotic.

*dismount soapbox*

I don't want to get too far off topic but, is there a way to legaly copy a "copy protected" CD or DVD? I don't want to mass produce these, and I purchased the original (not rented). All I want to do is keep the original at home and put a copy in my car for personal use. Is there a way to do this legaly short of buying two?

By the way, I have noticed a few CD's that come with two copies when you buy them. My thanks to Shania Twain and others for doing this.

[Glen B]

By the way, I have noticed a few CD's that come with two copies when you buy them. My thanks to Shania Twain and others for doing this.

Yes, but the two copies are not identical. In the case of Shania Twain, the two CDs are of completely different versions of the same songs. The two-man group Outkast, comprising artists Bog Boi and Andre 3000 produced the double CD, "Speakerboxx/The Love Below" that has different music by the two artists.

[noddin0ff]

Curiously, it's technically legal to make bit-for-bit duplicates of DVD's because you're not defeating encryption. However, the hard goods to do this do not exist for the normal person. Commercial write-able DVD's don't have 'room' to write certain regions of DVD's that would be required to make a bit-for-bit copy of a DVD. There's a jargony FAQ here
http://www.osta.org/technology/dvdqa/dvdqa7.htm

I am no expert. I suspect that there is just a lag in getting tools to the consumer at a reasonable price. Most movies are dual layer but dual layer burners are still entering the computer market, for example. There's no way to convert a dual layer burner to single layer DVDR without decrypting the content...which the DCMA forbids.

The bottom line is that, supposing you had the software and a capable burner, you still can't buy a writable DVD that would allow you to make a bit-for-bit copy of a commercial DVD. I wonder why...

For audio CD's, so far I haven't bought a disk I couldn't duplicate. I've run across disks that try to confound the computer with extra data and mounting multiple volumns etc... Sometime's I have to create a disk image or something, but Toast usually can do it. But then, maybe I don't buy the hard to duplicate music?

[EdwardGein]

The bottom line is that if anyone wants too, there are free online software programs that will let them burn backup copies of 99% of any DVD's for themselves but they need the physical DVD to do so. If someone feels they can not morally do so, that's their business. For some reason on Ebay, they let a few people regularly sell a physical device for $120-200, that when attached to your stand alone DVD recorder also allows you to do so.

If something is really well done & special, I'll buy like the "This Is Your Life Collection" DVD Set. Most likely I'll rent from Netflix & if I like something, mainly Concerts, I'll make a back-up for myself, as on my fixed retirement pension, I really can't afford to buy many of these things. If I had an unlimited sum of money, yeah I'd buy everything.

Again, what to me is the real crime and they don't put this (I'm pretty sure) in front of most DVD recorders in stores is, alot of people buy DVD recorders because they are under the impression they can make DVD's of everything when in fact in fact that's not true. I'm also
guessing that 80% of the DVDRs sold are used to make back-up copies of movies.

[Groundbeef]

There is a wonderful little program out there called 1ClickDVDcopy.com You can make copies of DVD's quite easily. You also need to d/l a decryptor from the web. Do a google for DVD43 and use it...very painless and easy. As stated above if you decrypt a DVD you are breaking the law, but if you own Disney Movies and have kids, it sure beats buying new DVD's if they scratch them.

[noddin0ff]

Most likely I'll rent from Netflix & if I like something, mainly Concerts, I'll make a back-up for myself, as on my fixed retirement pension, I really can't afford to buy many of these things. If I had an unlimited sum of money, yeah I'd buy everything.

EdG- I'm not attacking your morality here. People are also free to speed, drink underage, and smoke in restaurants if they want to. It's not legal, but morality and legality don't always agree. But, to claim you're making a 'back-up' is a mis-representation. You are not making a back-up, because you don't own it. What you are doing is making yourself a copy. It's not that much different from buying a cheap knockoff from that guy in the alley, you're just cutting out the middle man. If I were weathy I'd buy everything too. But, I'm not gonna lie to myself by claiming I'm making legal backups just because I'm not rich.