Requesting a fmtunerinfo.com-like site for preamps

[nightflier]

I've been spending some time reading about tuners on www.fmtunerinfo.com and have learned quite a bit more than I thought I knew about them (even bought myself a nice Marantz unit that beats the heck out of my receiver's tuner).

Anyhow, I was wondering if there was such a site for preamplifiers. I realize there are a lot more preamps than tuners out there, but it certainly would be a tremendous resource for the audio community.

[ericl]

http://www.audioreview.com/PLS_1591crx.aspx

:D

[E-Stat]

Anyhow, I was wondering if there was such a site for preamplifiers. I realize there are a lot more preamps than tuners out there, but it certainly would be a tremendous resource for the audio community.
The best preamp for high level sources like CD is none at all. Even the best preamps such as the Bumester 808, C-J ART II, VTL 7.5, ARC REF 3 are not perfect. I use mine (an ARC SP-9 MKIII) only when I need the phono stage for vinyl. Fortunately, many CDPs today have high gain and low output impedance which allows them to drive power amps directly through attenuators.. My GamuT CD-1 has a lower output impedance (75 ohms) and higher nominal output (4 volts) than my preamp (600 ohms / 2 volts).

rw

[nightflier]

Eric,

That's not really what I was going for. I was hoping more for a site that is less "opinion" and has more thorough testing. We need a site that has a dedicated group of enthusiasts who take the time to write thorough articles about the units they test and that is subject to peer review. AR, while helpfull, is not up to the level of fmtunerinfo.com.

E.,

I realise that the best amp is no amp at all, just like the best cable is no cable at all. But most folks in the real world need a little more control over their input/output.

So:

- Is there such a site?
- If not, how about starting one?

[E-Stat]

I realise that the best amp is no amp at all, just like the best cable is no cable at all.
While you cannot completely eliminate ICs and speaker wires, many folks can eliminate superfluous gain stages. While my DIY attenuators require rewiring for different sources, there are a number of commercially available models with input switching and multiple outputs.

I looked over at www.fmtunerinfo.com and looked at the shootouts. They appear to be very opinion oriented as well. What kind of preamp testing do you think would be valuable? As for existing sources, Stereophile usually provides measurements along with their reviewer's opinions.

rw

[nightflier]

What kind of preamp testing do you think would be valuable? As for existing sources, Stereophile usually provides measurements along with their reviewer's opinions.

Well I would start with a site that lists specs, has pictures and/or diagrams and links to manual downloads. I would then start adding links to reviews online from the major trade rags. This would get the site started. Once a decent number of regulars frequent the site, I would encourage them to write evals, that would be reviewed by the other regulars before they were posted.

Most of us have had 3-4 preamps in our possession at a time, so there's plenty of people with info and knowledge to contribute. Just as fmtunerinfo.com doesn't have a complete list, this would a also be a perpetual work in progress. Maybe I would start by limiting the types of tuners to just those that fit a certain criterea, i.e. 1970-1990's non-tube, stereo preamps. I would add other categories later as I get more help.

Anyhow, that's how I would do it, but if you have any other suggestions, let 'er rip...

[ericl]

Eric,

That's not really what I was going for. I was hoping more for a site that is less "opinion" and has more thorough testing. We need a site that has a dedicated group of enthusiasts who take the time to write thorough articles about the units they test and that is subject to peer review. AR, while helpfull, is not up to the level of fmtunerinfo.com.

- Is there such a site?
- If not, how about starting one?


I realize our reviews weren't what you had in mind. That was just a bit of shameless self promotion. ;)

If you guys want to start something (doing tests and writing peer reviewed articles, etc) we'd be happy to build section to host such a thing. You guys have to provide the content. Heck, you guys are always welcome to contribute anything audio related, as long as it is of good quality.

-eric

[Geoffcin]

Eric,

That's not really what I was going for. I was hoping more for a site that is less "opinion" and has more thorough testing. We need a site that has a dedicated group of enthusiasts who take the time to write thorough articles about the units they test and that is subject to peer review. AR, while helpfull, is not up to the level of fmtunerinfo.com.

E.,

I realise that the best amp is no amp at all, just like the best cable is no cable at all. But most folks in the real world need a little more control over their input/output.

So:

- Is there such a site?
- If not, how about starting one?

I think personal opinion means a LOT.

A good friend just got a Mark Levenson pre amp. I'm sure his old Audio Research LS-25 specs are pretty good, probable within a hair of the Levenson, but that can't account for the sweet sound, and utter blackness of the Levenson. Or how well it works with his older, but incredibly well built McCormack CD player. For this you have to go with my opinion. If you trust me, and confirm for yourself that we like the same things in Audio, then it's MUCH better than trying to read a bunch of graphs to decide what's best

[E-Stat]

Most of us have had 3-4 preamps in our possession at a time, so there's plenty of people with info and knowledge to contribute.
At one time or over time? Including my present unit, four preamps takes me back to 1974.


Maybe I would start by limiting the types of tuners to just those that fit a certain criterea, i.e. 1970-1990's non-tube, stereo preamps.
Excluding tubes (in my highly biased opinion) would be like excluding sports cars with fully independent suspensions. Any study in the evolution of preamps would have to include the Audo Research SP-3 series.

rw

[dean_martin]

Hey nightflier! I agree that fmtunerinfo.com is a great site. It would be soooo convenient, time-saving, and efficient if there was such a site for preamps. I'm looking at (tube) preamps right now and it just takes too much time to narrow the field. However, when I'm researching potential components, I usually spend some time at ecoustics.com. Click on the editorial reviews. You can arrange the list by most recent to oldest or alphabetically. It's not exclusively preamps, but sometimes they list reviews from specialty websites like head-fi.org and audioasylum. Heck, I haven't even tried their consumer reviews yet, but I usually get consumer reviews here and at audiogon.

http://search.ecoustics.com/Editorial/Reviews/Preamplifier/

[nightflier]

One of the most usefull bits of info at fmtunerinfo.com is the ebay price recommendations. I don't know how they monitor that, but it would definitely be at the top of my list of must-haves on a preamp site.

I realize that eBay isn't the end-all-be-all, but establishing a baseline for what tuners should cost helps newbies from making expensive mistakes. Just as there are great preamps available, there are also dogs out there and many that have a terrible service record.

E.,

1974? Well I commend you on making good use of your equipment. Unfortunately most of us have that upgrade-itis bug, a terrible disease that keeps mediocre manufacturers in business, encourages consumerism, and contributes to landfill waste. Right now I'm sitting on a B&K PT3-II, a NAD 1130, and Arcam Delta 110R (not to mention several integrateds and receivers). I would be more than happy to list specs/price-paid, upload photos, and give my 2 cents worth on each unit, if I only had a place to post this info.

Dean,

I didn't imply that tubes were out, it's just that there are so many preamps out there that I was just suggesting ways to trim down the list, sort of like the fmtunnerinfo.com folks have.

Geoff,

In the end there really is no such thing as a completely impartial review, I know. I also agree that it would make for some dull reading, to be sure. Again, I was only trying to find ways to make the site manageable. An opinion section would certainly be interesting, but at the risk of duplicating what's already been done here at AR, and other sites like it.

P.S. If someone eventually creates this site, you really do have to get your friend to post the relevant info on his preamps. They sound impressive, especially for those of us who just don't have access to equipment at that level. The magazine articles only go so far in covering them, and often with an overly positive bias. If a $10K preamp sounds like crap, I want to know about it, just in case I spot that once-in-a-lifetime deal mislabled at a liquidation sale....

[nightflier]

If you could give input on what kinds of information a preamp site should have, what would you ask for?

[nightflier]

If you could give input on what kinds of information a preamp site should have, what would you ask for?

I was thinking of putting something like this together myself. What would you like to see in a preamp site?

[hifitommy]

is a place to look.

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/amp/bbs.html

yeah, we all have multiple preamps, i am using a soundcraftsmen 2215 right now while my audio research sp3c rests. i also have a quatre bod 1c that i want to try again but the arc is calling me.

the soundcraftsmen is a good pre and i am quite surprised at how good it is. its phono seems to be very good but the arc has such a good line stage and its phono is no slouch. the quatre is likewise vg as i remember (it was my primary pre for years).

i have a belarri tube phono coming in the mail soon and that should be interesting. i paid $155 from b&h photo for it. they list for $200. i saw one at brooks berdans yesterday. if he has one on hand, it might not be so bad. OR he has it on hand for comparison to show its not that good! oh well, mine is coming.

btw, the bellari is ONLY a phono section that happens to have a headphone output.