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daigoro
07-24-2005, 03:44 PM
Having just watched a autobiography/testimonial regarding the late great film maker Stanley Kubrick, I thought I would take a little informal survey.

1. What are your top 3 favorite Kubrick films?
Dr. Strangelove
A Clockwork Orange
The Shining

2. What is your least favorite Kubrick film?
Eyes Wide Shut

3. What do you feel is his most overrated or underrated film?
Overrated: 2001 A Space Odyssey
Underrated: Full Metal Jacket.

RGA
07-24-2005, 05:38 PM
Three best IMO in order

1) A Clockwork Orange
2) 2001: A Space Odyssey
3) Dr. Strangelove

(The first two are in my top 10 all time - the third in my top 30)

Least Favorite
The Killing (though I have not sene them all)

Overrated (Full Metal Jacket -- it's no Platoon)
Underrated (The Shining)

Lexmark3200
07-24-2005, 07:27 PM
Having just watched a autobiography/testimonial regarding the late great film maker Stanley Kubrick, I thought I would take a little informal survey.

1. What are your top 3 favorite Kubrick films?
Dr. Strangelove
A Clockwork Orange
The Shining

2. What is your least favorite Kubrick film?
Eyes Wide Shut

3. What do you feel is his most overrated or underrated film?
Overrated: 2001 A Space Odyssey
Underrated: Full Metal Jacket.


ABSOLUTELY AGREED that this master filmmaker's worst film was Eyes Wide Shut. No doubt.

My TOP THREE Kubrick choices are CLOCKWORK ORANGE, THE SHINING and FULL METAL JACKET.

AGREED WHOLEHEARTEDLY that his most UNDERRATED film was FULL METAL JACKET AND AGREED that his most OVERRATED film was SPACE ODYSSEY.

Great thread topic, by the way, sir.

paul_pci
07-24-2005, 09:45 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks 2001 was overrated. But my favorites are the usual suspects: Clockwork Orange, Full Metal Jacket (better than Platoon; oh Charlie Sheen, read me more letters to your grandmother) and The Shining.

daigoro
07-25-2005, 06:27 AM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks 2001 was overrated. But my favorites are the usual suspects: Clockwork Orange, Full Metal Jacket (better than Platoon; oh Charlie Sheen, read me more letters to your grandmother) and The Shining.

Yeah, Platoon was annoying. I mean, Stone has touches of very inspired film making, but his whininess and political baggage always seem to ruin his flicks for me. I guess the thing that bothered me most about Platoon was that, because of the title, I was hoping to see a real slice of life for a TYPICAL platoon in Vietnam. Instead, Stone pieced together every atrocity ever perpetrated by all American forces over a 10 year period and presented it as one Frankenstein's Monster of a Platoon full of child raping, crippled kid killing, village burning, drug taking, fratriciding, racist, jack-booted criminals.

Well...at least it wasn't as whiny as The Thin Red Line. God that movie was awful! Letters to Granny aren't nearly as ponderous as endless voiceovers contemplating the fallacy of mankind. Geez! Shoot me already!

Lexmark3200
07-25-2005, 09:14 AM
I dont know, fellas.....I kind of like the way Sheen narrates the film through letters to his grandmother, although I know this is going to get a huge backlash from most; in fact, I think the closing narration he makes as he is being helicoptered away is the most spine-tingling narrative line in the picture, where he says "The war is over for me now.....but it will always be there for the rest of my days......and looking back, we did not fight the enemy......we fought ourselves.....and the enemy was within us....."

Now Im gonna have to pull Platoon: Special Edition off the shelf and watch it tonight to do a full length DVD review and discuss it.....damn........

dean_martin
07-25-2005, 02:18 PM
Faves:
A Clockwork Orange
Full Metal Jacket - (at first I thought this was 2 movies patched together - bootcamp then 'Nam which was frustrating, but after watching it a couple of times it seemed to be depicting the 2 very different worlds confronted by soldiers. I finally asked myself, "Can you really prepare for war?")
Dr. Strangelove - this could have easily been 2001 or The Shining depending on my mood

Least Fave:
Eyes Wide Shut

Overrated:
Spartacus (I would like to hear from classic film fans on this one)

Underrated:
Lolita

Lexmark3200
07-25-2005, 02:50 PM
"Full Metal Jacket - (at first I thought this was 2 movies patched together - bootcamp then 'Nam which was frustrating, but after watching it a couple of times it seemed to be depicting the 2 very different worlds confronted by soldiers. I finally asked myself, "Can you really prepare for war?")"


Yes, Dean, this thought is shared by MANY film scholars around the world, that Kubrick's FULL METAL JACKET actually FEELS like two films, as many people simply watch the first part of this picture --- the boot camp training ---- and then turn the picture off, thinking the second part --- in Vietnam --- is simply not worth watching compared to that awesome training first half (thanks to Lee Emery as the drill sergeant); but I ALWAYS watch the entire film straight through because the second half has some memorable moments in it, as we catch up with the more refined versions of Joker, Cowboy, and Animal Mother.....and the scenes with the platoon trying to get laid by that Vietmenese hooker and the "pimp" who drives her on a moped are just classic man......

"She boom boom long time......she ****, suck, stick right in the pusshy!" (pimp)

"I think what shes tryin to say is that you black boys pack too much meat....." (Cowboy)

Now, Im gonna have to watch BOTH Full Metal Jacket AND Platoon and do DVD reviews on them after all this talk.....damn.....

But yes, Dean, many film scholars do consider Full Metal Jacket --- and film FANS alone --- to be two separate motion pictures tied into one; many enjoy the first training sequence much more because it IS downright shocking and hysterical at the same time. But it IS one of those films that DOES feel like two separate films in one......

MomurdA
07-26-2005, 01:29 PM
Dr Strangelove
2001
Clockwork Orange

Least Fave: Eyes Wide Shut
Underrated: Spartacus/Dr.Stangelove
Overrated: Hmm dunno
I cant believe many of you dont like 2001. This movie came out in 1968, Ten years before star wars. The FX in this movie were amazing, as well as the direction. Most people who watch this movie just dont seem to get it: There is no sound in space, hence the prolonged periods of silence in this film. The claustrophobic breathing sounds, a crazy computer, the holy-crap-i-thought-i-quit-lsd experience of entering the monolith. Pure space race genius.

musicman1999
07-26-2005, 03:15 PM
3 favorites
2001
dr.strangelove
clockwork orange

least:eyes wide shut (but if this was done by a lesser director,it would be much better thought of)

underrated--2001,spartacus,the shining
overrated--none i can think of,although i have not seen anything pre 1960

i agree with the previous poster about 2001.one of my 5 favs of all time,it is clearly one of the seminal films in cinema history.with its use of lighting and sound(or lack of)it set benchmarks for film to follow.

bill

RGA
07-28-2005, 11:56 AM
Faves:
A Clockwork Orange
Full Metal Jacket - (at first I thought this was 2 movies patched together - bootcamp then 'Nam which was frustrating, but after watching it a couple of times it seemed to be depicting the 2 very different worlds confronted by soldiers. I finally asked myself, "Can you really prepare for war?")
Dr. Strangelove - this could have easily been 2001 or The Shining depending on my mood

Least Fave:
Eyes Wide Shut

Overrated:
Spartacus (I would like to hear from classic film fans on this one)

Underrated:
Lolita


Well Spartacus was dreadful and I would have chosen it but I don;t think that any Kubrick fans would rate it highly so I didn't say most overrated even though I liked it less than than Full Metal Jacket.

Kubrick off the top of my head

A Clockwork Orange 5/5

2001: A Space Odyssey 5/5 (it took me 3 views over two decades to get, I think, the mastery of this film)

Dr. Strangelove 4.5/5

The Shining 4/5

Eyes Wide Shut 2/5

Full Metal Jacket 2.5/5 (Two movies in one but only one of the two the first one worked)

Lolita 3/5

The Killing 2/5

Spartacus 2/5

dean_martin
07-28-2005, 01:33 PM
Well Spartacus was dreadful and I would have chosen it but I don;t think that any Kubrick fans would rate it highly so I didn't say most overrated even though I liked it less than than Full Metal Jacket.



For me, one factor of "overrated" is saturation to the point where it's a part of our universal collective consciousness even though it's not that good. Once a movie like Spartacus gets there, people who've never seen it have at least heard of it and half of those probably believe it's generally accepted as a masterpiece.

And where is Barry Lyndon in this discussion? Has anyone actually seen it? We had a top 100 of all time list from some magazine on the board not long ago that ranked this one higher than any other Kubrick film if I remember correctly. I think some feathers were ruffled.

MomurdA
07-28-2005, 01:58 PM
Barry Lyndon, oh deezamn i forgot about that one. been a long time since i saw that. I will go check it out if i can find it at blockbuster, or maybe just buy it off ebay.

RGA
07-28-2005, 02:52 PM
For me, one factor of "overrated" is saturation to the point where it's a part of our universal collective consciousness even though it's not that good. Once a movie like Spartacus gets there, people who've never seen it have at least heard of it and half of those probably believe it's generally accepted as a masterpiece.

And where is Barry Lyndon in this discussion? Has anyone actually seen it? We had a top 100 of all time list from some magazine on the board not long ago that ranked this one higher than any other Kubrick film if I remember correctly. I think some feathers were ruffled.

I have for whatever reason missed seeing barry Lyndon.

I understand your choice for Spartacus -- makes sense so I'll switch my vote. Still I don't think Full Metal Jacket works. Platoon is getting criticised but this movie was about Stone's journey in Vietnam and what he saw. Sheen was somewhat miscast perhaps as often being a bit of weakling but in a way that makes sense -- not every soldier is the alpha male. To me Platoon is vastly superior in every area.

I also think that Ebert correctly notes that Full Metal Jacket is hampered by its visuals. http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19870626/REVIEWS/706260302/1023

Though I will note that i STRONGLY disagree with Ebert on A Clockwork. Roger you goofball http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19720211/REVIEWS/202110301/1023

dean_martin
07-28-2005, 04:01 PM
I have for whatever reason missed seeing barry Lyndon.



Me too. It was playing on one of the Showtime channels a few months ago. It looked like a period piece in which men wore wigs, stockings and knee britches. I didn't watch enough of it to know what it's about.

I agree that Full Metal Jacket has problems. If it was Kubrick's intent to really shift gears between the boot camp segment and the 'Nam segment, then I think that's a great idea. The execution just wasn't there in the latter half. Interestingly, I thought the boot camp segment was more intense than the war segment. If he was trying to show that training for war and fighting a war are vastly different, then there was no where to go in the war segment because the beginning was so amped up. I may be off in my interpretation but I think Joker's scene with the Colonel in nam mirrored the intended framework of the movie. Joker has a peace sign and "Born to Kill" on his helmet. The Col. asks him what that means. Joker responds that it represents the duality of man - "the Jungian thing." I think Kubrick was going for duality of framework and even achieved it but didn't execute the war segment very well. (You know what? This reminds me of Stripes a little. After Bill Murray and gang finish boot camp and get their assignment, the movie seems to go down hill....uhh, nevermind...not quite the same thing.)

I remember enjoying Platoon when it came out. I've seen it more than once, but it's been a while. From what stuck with me though, I think Willem Defoe's character was over the top in one direction while Tom Berringer's character was over the top in the opposite direction - the good soldier/bad soldier scenario was a little too extreme. Still a good film. I don't have much criticism expcept that I was a little uncomfortable with those characters.

agtpunx40
07-28-2005, 05:24 PM
Although I understand the effect Kubrick was going for, I just though 2001 was so slow that it lost me as a viewer. Every time I think back on it, I think how great it was, then I watch it again and am disappointed. It's certainly not bad or anything, but......... Now that I think about it, it's been a while, it might be time for another viewing, I'll get back to you in a few days.

RGA
07-28-2005, 09:52 PM
2001 is slow -- and when i was younger it put me off. I bought it a few years ago and was in the right mood for it and it fired on all cylinders for me. It's number 4 all time for me.

Dean Martin
Full Metal Jacket -- it's been about 15 years since I've seen it and don't remember it well enough to comment except that I know enjoyed the first half boot camp and the latter half for me flopped. By no means was it a BAD movie -- just not a great one for me.

Platoon isn't perfect -- I agree with the goodguy badguy criticism of Dafoe and Berenger. War films have a tough time getting away from these one note characitures. It's very difficult to create a monster and not let the character become one dimensional.