B & W, are they as good as they are cracked up to be? [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

PDA

View Full Version : B & W, are they as good as they are cracked up to be?



ryanpreusser
07-21-2005, 10:30 PM
i was wondering if b & w is what they are hyped up to be....do they have good sound? are they any better brands?

topspeed
07-21-2005, 10:46 PM
i was wondering if b & w is what they are hyped up to be....do they have good sound? are they any better brands?It depends on how you define value.

Is an Aston Martin THAT good? Is it worth the money?
Certainly, there are other cars that are faster, corner better, brake harder, are more reliable, and look better (well OK, none look better) for less money.

Is a Patek Philippe THAT good? Is it worth the money?
A Casio tells time just as accurately, right?

B&W's, for better or worse, have attained the status of an aspirational brand. The name is well known and well respected, an image reflected in their market leading resale values. Because speakers are the most subjective of all components in the audio chain, they can legitimately lay claim to producing some of the finest sounding speakers at their relative price points (you can always find a fan, just as you can a hater). Are there "better" speakers? I dunno, you tell me. The real question is do you think they are worth it?

It's your money, your taste, your room, your front end, and ultimately, your decision. Go out and listen and come to your own conclusion.

ryanpreusser
07-21-2005, 10:58 PM
i have another question kinda off topic.....do you think that a vintage yamaha intigrated amp will sound good.....i know its all in what i think but generally people kinda have the same taste....whay do u think about vintage yamaha integrated amps. im looking for one with about 75 wpc have any sugestions?

paul_pci
07-21-2005, 11:26 PM
I agree with Topspeed, but let me come at this question in another direction: Is Monster Cable all that its hyped up to be? No. Is Bose all that its hyped up to be? No. Is B&W all that it's hyped up to be? Yes. There are companies and products out there that don't come close to being what they are hyped to be and B&W is not one of them. Does that mean you'll be happy with a pair of speakers or even five? Not necessarily. But, you won't feel ripped off.

drseid
07-22-2005, 02:21 AM
I agree with Topspeed, but let me come at this question in another direction: Is Monster Cable all that its hyped up to be? No. Is Bose all that its hyped up to be? No. Is B&W all that it's hyped up to be? Yes. There are companies and products out there that don't come close to being what they are hyped to be and B&W is not one of them. Does that mean you'll be happy with a pair of speakers or even five? Not necessarily. But, you won't feel ripped off.
Forgive me Paul for partially disagreeing here...

With respect to B&W being all that it is hyped to be?... I disagree *somewhat*... It isn't that I feel B&W is anywhere *near* the over-hyped speakers Bose are (and I agree they sound disappointing, to be sure)... But I would argue that there could be an argument made that B&W gets more hype than it deserves (along with many other brands, for that matter).

As for feeling "ripped off" if B&W were the choice...? I don't know if I would go as far as to say the answer was "no" to everyone. It depends on the listener's preferences, and experience with other brands...

In my case (assuming it is the Nautilus Series and Diamond Series that I have heard extensively), I *certainly* would feel disappointed (from a value/sound for the money standpoint in this case). Many, many others would feel the exact opposite. It just depends on who you ask.

As Topspeed correctly mentions in his post... The only opinion that really matters is the opinion of the listener in question.

---Dave

topspeed
07-22-2005, 10:39 AM
i have another question kinda off topic.....do you think that a vintage yamaha intigrated amp will sound good.....i know its all in what i think but generally people kinda have the same taste....whay do u think about vintage yamaha integrated amps. im looking for one with about 75 wpc have any sugestions?
Vintage stuff can be terrific. In fact, I use a Marantz 2230 from the '70's to drive my VR1's with exceptional results. Many would argue that some of the older stuff from Pioneer, Fisher, Sansui, and of course Marantz, are actually better than their modern day interpretations. I'm not that familiar with older Yammies, but considering how capable their current equipment is, it's a safe bet that it's pretty good.

When I first inherited the Marantz from my dad, I asked our friend who's an EE whether or not it was any good before he did the tune-up on it. I think he summarized vintage equipment best in his answer: "It's still running after all these years and you want to know if it's any good? What do you think?!?"

In this day of disposable receivers, truer words were never said.

Florian
07-22-2005, 11:24 AM
Forgive me Paul for partially disagreeing here...

With respect to B&W being all that it is hyped to be?... I disagree *somewhat*... It isn't that I feel B&W is anywhere *near* the over-hyped speakers Bose are (and I agree they sound disappointing, to be sure)... But I would argue that there could be an argument made that B&W gets more hype than it deserves (along with many other brands, for that matter).

As for feeling "ripped off" if B&W were the choice...? I don't know if I would go as far as to say the answer was "no" to everyone. It depends on the listener's preferences, and experience with other brands...


---Dave
I agree, they are good but definetly overhyped. :p

RGA
07-22-2005, 11:42 AM
It's completely irrelevant - if you liked what you heard and you heard a good amount of other stuff then they offer good build construction, a good name to impress your friends, generally good sound (certainly some I don't like but others I do and ultimately I ain't buying so that's why this is in brackets).

I think with B&W you are buying a package rather than just sonics for your money. You are paying for the marketing engine and the appearance and name brand recognition. And this is not a negative thing so long as you know what you're getting. I recommend B&W as a good and safe company to start your journey into a generlaly better class of speaker over the stuff one finds at Futureshop. Most B&W I know tend to eventually leave the brand when they get more listening experience...otoh some move up to the N801.

Do they live up to the hype? To me they do not. But to someone who loves the sound -- then sure to them they very well may.

Woochifer
07-22-2005, 02:30 PM
"Better" or "good sound" depends on your preferences. In general, B&W is a safe brand to go with. The company has legitimate high end credentials and aspirations, and a history of producing well regarded and competitive products. Their prices are typically on the high side for the different markets that they compete in, but still provide reasonable value for the performance that they deliver.

If you're looking for reasonably accurate speakers that will work with a variety of music sources and not have a lot of extremes in the tonal characteristics, then B&W should be included in the discussion. That said, some people have criticized B&W in the past for a somewhat bland sound, and now people are harping about their newer models sounding overly "bright" and have compromised performance for more style on some lines. Generally, you need to do your homework, and do some listening to figure out your preferences before you start relying on generalized opinions as to whether one speaker line is better than another. Depending on what you like, you might end up preferring a different speaker company's offerings, which might cost less than the equivalent B&W model.

As far as using with a vintage Yamaha receiver, that amp should provide sufficient power for most of the B&W lineup, except maybe the Nautilus models, which are a bit more demanding. Yamahas have a reputation for sounding bright, and while I think that's an erroneous reputation-driven label with their newer HT receivers, it definitely applies with their older two-channel systems. I generally think that vintage amps tend to sound different from one another because the different companies have slight variations in the "zero states" for their preamp sections. Even with the tone controls and loudness settings set at zero, the sound might not necessarily be totally flat.

With that in mind, a vintage Yamaha amp might not match too well with B&W's 700 series, but might work with the 600 or 300 series. And that assessment needs to account for the type of sound that you prefer. If you like a little extra in the highs, then a brighter sounding combination might work for you. Again, do your listenings and figure it out for yourself.

csukasem
07-22-2005, 05:00 PM
i was wondering if b & w is what they are hyped up to be....do they have good sound? are they any better brands?

There are so many good speakers and better. This is fact of life. I think you need to spend sometime to gain more mileages to find yourself and you tastes. I am using B&W 805s and HTM 2 and very happy with them. Might they be replaced ? Yes, can be.

I would strongly suggest that you go audition a lot lof alternatives and settle down. What I found out in AV hobby is that the more experienced you are the more stable and you tend to stay with your system longer until one day it comes the new information.

Anyway, B&W has many models and some might be bad(for someones) and some good but my personal thought is that B&W's total scores is really above average.

Good luck with your search.

abstracta
07-24-2005, 08:10 PM
That said, some people have criticized B&W in the past for a somewhat bland sound, and now people are harping about their newer models sounding overly "bright"


I think the 'bland' accusation comes from B&W designs being overly clinical on mid/lower bass response. With all due respect to B&W fans, the B&W line is among the 'dryest' in terms of bass extension I've heard next to perhaps planars.

What B&W is not given enough credit for is, IMHO, the 'open' soundstage that's a result of their tweeter design and exellent midrange-tweeter integration. While most competitors are trying to design better boxes, it seems like B&W has kind of thrown in the towel and taken a tangent.

oddeoowphil38
07-25-2005, 09:33 AM
i was wondering if b & w is what they are hyped up to be....do they have good sound? are they any better brands?
Ryan I have listened extensively to the B&W602s3's and IMHO they are an excellent speaker in the $600 per pair price range. Got to do an A/B comparison between the 602's and the Paradigm Mini Monitors and the Paradigm Studio 20's as well as the Polk Audio Rti 4's/Rti 6's.
Of these, the Studio 20's were no doubt the best period. However, the B&W 602s3's were not far behind. The 20's had much better low end extension, imaged better, and were a more open and airy. The B&W's were much more lush sounding and laid back. The mini's sounded a bit boxy and blanketed in the upper registers. The Polk Rti6's were impressive but could be a bit on the bright side at times to the point of sounding kinda harsh. The Rti4's were very smiliar to the Rti6's. So, for the money the B&W 602s3 is top notch and remain one of my favs. The studio 20's win hands down but are $800 a pair. The final answer is what do YOU prefer---only you can decide that for yourself. Happy hunting.
Phil

newbsterv2
07-26-2005, 07:28 AM
In my opinion B&W makes nice speakers and use sound engineering principles to design their speakers. They also have very nice finishes and can look very attractive in most living quarters. B&W has been known to have a slightly pronounced midrange to give that "british" sound but their newest revision of speakers really seem to be the most neutral I've heard. I'd say compared with Paradigm, Axiom, and PSB, The B&W's are better designed and sounding speakers even if they are priced higher than the brands previously noted.



i was wondering if b & w is what they are hyped up to be....do they have good sound? are they any better brands?

snickelfritz
07-26-2005, 10:53 AM
B&W is known for their advanced driver technology, expert speaker engineering and long association with the professional recording industry.
IMO they deserve their status.

Florian
07-26-2005, 03:35 PM
In my opinion nothing changed in the last 20 years. The Infinity IRS-V, Genesis 1.1, Apogee's and Dunlavy SC1 are the still the best speakers in the world and they dont use no Kevlar midrange or some papercoated drivers with some nautilus tweeter. To me its all a gimmick since they need to sell their speakers. Everytime i read something about Axiom, Paradigm, Dynaudio, B&W and about some new box and how dry the bass with the crispy midrange is, i just shake my head and laugh because the people fall for it everytime. Just look for a old Infinity Sigma, Epsilon, Dunlavy speakers, or the old B&W Matrix 800 etc... and get it over with. And if you have money to blow and the big room then look for giant planars and experiecne what "characterless" really means.

Is B&W good compared to Paradigm, Axiom, Infinity, Dynaudio etc... ?!? Of course they are, but this new driver and kevlar mumbojumbo is ridiculous.

-Flo

Peter Duminy
07-26-2005, 06:02 PM
Quote: "Is B&W good compared to Paradigm, Axiom, Infinity, Dynaudio etc... ?!? Of course they are, but this new driver and kevlar mumbojumbo is ridiculous".


I don't usually disagree with your posts that much - but this time I do.

I have spent many of my years working for B&W in Worthing in their R&D Dept, and can assure you that at no time did we find Kevlar ever to be "mumbojumbo". It has taken many years to perfect the biasing of the fibers, and finding the best combinations of resins to use. It has proved itself now as a very worthy contender for a high quality driver material. Also many other Companies are also using variations of Kevlar such as Eaton Ltd to name just one. I hope this clears up many of the misconceptions I have read from you.

oddeoowphil38
07-26-2005, 06:33 PM
Peter I personally believe it all boils down to the old addage "to each his own" so to speak. That is, we all have our own IDEAS as to how a speaker is suppose to sound and like it or not our perceptions(biases) are always with us no matter what. In other words, speaker preference is by far a very subjective thing. Thank God himself for that. If it weren't so we all would have the same exact speakers and listen to the same exact material. I say the heck with that!!! Personally, I prefer a stand mounted speaker that is very open and airy while maintaining superb articulation. Others prefer a more forward sounding speaker whereas others prefer the more laid back approach. Who is to say that one is right or that one approach is superior to the other???? Is there really only one way to define the "ideal" speaker???? The truth is we all have certain things we look for and prefer whether it be buying loudspeakers or buying a car AND thus it is that which defines us as individuals--each having his own likes and dislikes. IMHO, B&W makes excellent speakers and do so on various levels of refinement. I said it before and I will say it again the B&W 602s3 is one of the, if not the best, speakers in the $600 US price range period. Have a great evening.
Phil

ryanpreusser
07-26-2005, 08:02 PM
thank you all for your help.....i didnt get b&w's instead i got a pair of NHT 1.5's. killer but lack bass, bigtime. guess ill have to get a subwoofer:D

paul_pci
07-26-2005, 08:48 PM
thank you all for your help.....i didnt get b&w's instead i got a pair of NHT 1.5's. killer but lack bass, bigtime. guess ill have to get a subwoofer:D

Cool; hope you enjoy. Now we need to start a new thread: Are SVS subwoofers overhyped?

ryanpreusser
07-26-2005, 11:21 PM
wats SVS??

Florian
07-27-2005, 02:09 AM
Quote: "Is B&W good compared to Paradigm, Axiom, Infinity, Dynaudio etc... ?!? Of course they are, but this new driver and kevlar mumbojumbo is ridiculous".


I don't usually disagree with your posts that much - but this time I do.

I have spent many of my years working for B&W in Worthing in their R&D Dept, and can assure you that at no time did we find Kevlar ever to be "mumbojumbo". It has taken many years to perfect the biasing of the fibers, and finding the best combinations of resins to use. It has proved itself now as a very worthy contender for a high quality driver material. Also many other Companies are also using variations of Kevlar such as Eaton Ltd to name just one. I hope this clears up many of the misconceptions I have read from you. I am not saying its a bad material, i am saying that its overhyped. I was trying to make a point. There is not much new to build, design anymore. We know what air volume we need, how to absorb resonant frequencys etc... but we need to make NEW speakers that are even more neutral, faster, crsiper blah blah blah and the use of a Kevlar midrange, Diamond tweeter etc.. is in my book a gimmick name that is picked because it reflects high class.

What slogan is more catchy?

Our paper drivers are the neutralest on the planet!

OR

Our krevlar midrange is the neutralest on the planet.

We all know what KEVLAR is and what a DIAMOND is and those materials and names are picked on purpose.

-Flo

Peter Duminy
07-27-2005, 02:55 AM
There will be another name that will be used a lot more too, and that is Rohacell for the woofer cones made under license from Rohm GmbH. Excellent damping and strenghth characteristics.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/voicecoil/PeterRD.jpg

Of course B&W use the words Kevlar and Diamond names in their products, as they use these materials during manufacture.

kexodusc
07-27-2005, 03:28 AM
There will be another name that will be used a lot more too, and that is Rohacell for the woofer cones made under license from Rohm GmbH. Excellent damping and strenghth characteristics.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/voicecoil/PeterRD.jpg

Of course B&W use the words Kevlar and Diamond names in their products, as they use these materials during manufacture.

I think Florian has a point here. I certainly won't blame B&W for doing this, maybe just their marketing department. Does anyone here really think the average consumer knows the benefits of Kevlar over wooven wool, paper, polypropylene, aluminum, magnesium, etc ?
Not a chance.
And the few that do know aren't going to buy into the suggestion that Kevlar woofers are superior to woofers of different material.

At the same time, I have yet to see one single speaker company not "hype" their own products in one fashion or another. It's unfair and pointless to look at advertising, no matter how exaggerated it may seem, as being deceptive or somehow wrong.

snickelfritz
07-27-2005, 09:57 AM
The true benefit of Kevlar is in the FST midrange driver, in which the fibers are biased to produce a driver that varies it's effective radiating surface over frequency, and launches what is essentially a square wavefront. The driver literally pulsates rather than operating as a true piston.
The benefit is improved dispersion and breakup characteristics near the upper crossover frequency. A common problem with midrange drivers, which operate over a relatively wide and important frequency range.
The purported advantage of diamond tweeter diaphragms is the significantly higher resonance frequency; the driver is more linear within the audio range as a result.

IMO, the "hype" is mostly just interesting information for audiophiles, which B&W speakers have traditionally been intended for. Pure music lovers will just appreciate the transparent and natural sound reproduction.
The measurements of the latest $1000 603 indicate outstanding engineering; virtually flat response, very well controlled dispersion, no significant resonances, and very clean decay over the entire audio range.
These measurements would not be out of place attached to a $5000 speaker!

BTW, loudly touted frequency response and power handling specs are the most common form of misleading speaker marketing hype, similar to CPU "speed" in the computer market.
Both are aimed squarely at unsophisticated consumers, and usually have little to do with the acceptability or actual performance of the product.

Kevlar, on the other hand is fundamental to the performance characteristics of the Nautilus series, and is unique AFAIK to B&W.
One can hardly blame them for sharing the details of this innovative driver design with consumers.

Florian
07-27-2005, 10:05 AM
Now there are a few things wrong with your "holy grail of B&W".

1. You have 3 or 4 different drivers with different mass, different material etc.. and all sound different at a given frequency. The B&W's or almost any other box out there will not sound neutral or transport a given note over the driver range in unison.

2. B&W's are not known for the perfection but are known for their advertising.

3. In a box you will always have compression, coloration etc...

B&W makes good speakers, but fast, neutral, characterless etc.. are definetly not what B&W stands for.

-Flo

And without trying to start a war but

"will just appreciate the transparent and natural sound reproduction."

if you think that the B&W's (800D, 800 Matrix, Nautilus PJ) life up to that...than you have heard nothing yet :p

RGA
07-27-2005, 10:20 AM
I have to agree with Kex -- no one can blame them I guess for the advertising hype -- but please let us recognize that that is ALL it is. I'm not overly surprised that many audiophiles consider them to be the Bose of the "audiophile" world. You generally pay a lot more to get less with B&W. They would not be the first to use their name to ride weaker products or products that are no better than compatitors for a lot less money -- See the Sony Corporation and Bose for models for businesses to copy. B&W is doing well grasshopper.

Kevlar or metal may not be a problem -- integrating the two in my view has been with an audible lack of cohesion. Still there are some I'd recommend -- but when yuo hear more speakers the B&W's tend to fall back behind the pack -- Comparing them to the big makers with a similar business model means little to me.

kexodusc
07-27-2005, 10:22 AM
The true benefit of Kevlar is in the FST midrange driver, in which the fibers are biased to produce a driver that varies it's effective radiating surface over frequency, and launches what is essentially a square wavefront. The driver literally pulsates rather than operating as a true piston.
The benefit is improved dispersion and breakup characteristics near the upper crossover frequency. A common problem with midrange drivers, which operate over a relatively wide and important frequency range.
The purported advantage of diamond tweeter diaphragms is the significantly higher resonance frequency; the driver is more linear within the audio range as a result.

IMO, the "hype" is mostly just interesting information for audiophiles, which B&W speakers have traditionally been intended for. Pure music lovers will just appreciate the transparent and natural sound reproduction.
The measurements of the latest $1000 603 indicate outstanding engineering; virtually flat response, very well controlled dispersion, no significant resonances, and very clean decay over the entire audio range.
These measurements would not be out of place attached to a $5000 speaker!

BTW, loudly touted frequency response and power handling specs are the most common form of misleading speaker marketing hype, similar to CPU "speed" in the computer market.
Both are aimed squarely at unsophisticated consumers, and usually have little to do with the acceptability or actual performance of the product.

Kevlar, on the other hand is fundamental to the performance characteristics of the Nautilus series, and is unique AFAIK to B&W.
One can hardly blame them for sharing the details of this innovative driver design with consumers.

B&W was not the first or only to use Kevlar in speakers...Usher, Davis, Eton, Hi-Vi Research, and Scan-speak are just a few big names that manufacture Kevlar drivers...
They're never cheap, and some are quite highly praised.

snickelfritz
07-27-2005, 12:49 PM
If we get back to the original topic; "are they as good as they are cracked up to be?"
The short answer is probably yes.

Yes, it's true that the recording industry has a long history with B&W.
Yes, it's true that Skywalker Ranch has a pair of N802s in their theater.
Yes, it's true that B&W develops their own drivers and has state of the art facilities in which to do it.
Yes, they're better than a pair of JBLs from Bestbuy.
Yes, B&W is a globally respected name for good reasons.

Not sure if someone has "cracked them up" to be something other than a highly respected World-class loudspeaker developer and manufacturer.
That, they certainly are.

BTW, I was not aware that other companies were manufacturing Fixed Suspension Transducers with Kevlar diaphragms.
B&W has the only FST driver I have ever seen anywhere. (the fact that it uses Kevlar is secondary)

Florian
07-27-2005, 12:55 PM
If we get back to the original topic; "are they as good as they are cracked up to be?"
The short answer is probably yes.

Yes, it's true that the recording industry has a long history with B&W.
So does M&K, Apogee, Magnepan, Dynaudio and JBL
Yes, it's true that Skywalker Ranch has a pair of N802s in their theater.
They also use M&K THX speakers and Teufel Theater 10
Yes, it's true that B&W develops their own drivers and has state of the art facilities in which to do it.
So does Dynaudio, Dali, Magnepan, Infinity etc...
Yes, they're better than a pair of JBLs from Bestbuy.
True, but that aint hard ;-)
Yes, B&W is a globally respected name for good reasons.
They are good speakers, but they dont live up to the hype. And there are many speakers better.

Not sure if someone has "cracked them up" to be something other than a highly respected World-class loudspeaker developer and manufacturer.
That, they certainly are.

Noone is saying they are bad, but you make them sound like they are the holy grail. AND THAT, THEY CERTAINLY ARE NOT .

snickelfritz
07-27-2005, 01:26 PM
Actually, you are inferring from my support of B&W that I see them as the "Holy Grail".
Their speakers are neither better nor worse than a dozen other companies that make high quality audiophile speakers.
I would certainly audition at least a dozen speakers in addition to the N800 if I had $16000 burning a hole in my pocket.

I won't dispute that there are literally dozens of speaker manufacturers that supply the recording industry, but B&W is ubiquitous in the recording industry and are legendary in the speaker industry, for whatever it's worth. It doesn't make them the Holy Grail though; just successful.
And it ain't advertising hyperbole that did it either.
LOL, if that were true, Bose would have an equal stature.

I happen to own a pair of B&Ws, but I certainly wouldn't mind owning Sonus Faber, Paradigm Signature, Vienna, JBL K2, Wilson, etc...
Are any of these speaker manufacturers "what they're cracked up to be?"
Who knows.
I'm sure somebody somewhere on crack still thinks Cerwin Vega "is the Holy Grail".
They RAWK!.

Florian
07-27-2005, 01:26 PM
I still disagree to some extend. B&W has the largest marketing machine in the audio indsutry and many young audiophiles buy into it. BOSE and B&W share a lot of marketing strategies and BOSE is definetly at least as popular as B&W. Now i could say that is because of their great advances in technology and design, but you would disagree because they just dont sound good. I definetly think that you can get more for you money if you dont sponsor B&W's marketing machiene.

Flo

Florian
07-27-2005, 01:42 PM
I would like add-on something. The question was

"B & W, are they as good as they are cracked up to be?" (http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?p=97208#post97208)

The question could be forumalted like this

B&W, are they as good as the hype/commercials suggest?

And the answere is simply no. Yes they are good, but they are not the best in their category. There are better speakers for the same amount of money.

Peter Duminy
07-27-2005, 01:45 PM
B&W are amongst the best in their respective categories. History has proved that. The late John Bowers told me "If you build a better product - people will buy it" He lived up to his reputation.

paul_pci
07-27-2005, 02:55 PM
wats SVS??

SVS is an online-only dealer/manufacturer of cylinder and box subs which are very popular among members of this and other related boards.

ryanpreusser
07-27-2005, 03:53 PM
are they good subs...?

RGA
07-27-2005, 04:22 PM
B&W are amongst the best in their respective categories. History has proved that. The late John Bowers told me "If you build a better product - people will buy it" He lived up to his reputation.

Well peter they should hire you back. The speakers have bene getting worse over the years not better and the prices have been going UP not down. FWIW most of the rest of the industry has done the exact same thing which is why I can keep recommending the B&W 602S3. But the 705 --- c'mon have you heard this for yourself against other speakers for $2300.00Cdn. I mean sorry but it has to be the worst speaker I have heard for $2300.00 Cad. And considering that people know my stance on Paradigm that says a lot.

It just seems like they;re resting on their laurals(SP?) rather than pushing the envelope.

On the other hand and to be fair --- it may be that my preference is interfering with my opinion of B&W. Still the 302 is IMO far superior to the 303 musically -- despite using off the shelf cheap woofer and soft dome tweeter. The new one is good mind you but it's brittle and fatiguing in comparison and costs 50%+ more money. I assume it's for home theater pyrotechnics and not for music -- if so that's fine by me.

Peter Duminy
07-27-2005, 04:52 PM
That may well happen - however these chaps have me in their fold (Tannoy & Dynaudio):

http://www.tcgroup.tc/Files/Static/Default.htm

I know of no manufacturer who makes a perfect line of speakers that everyone loves. I personally find the B&W CM2 not to be my cup of tea. One thing I can say is though, is that there are some major developments on the way from the Sussex Downs of Steyning! :)

paul_pci
07-27-2005, 08:13 PM
are they good subs...?

Supposedly if you go by consumer opinion. They're wildly popular and supposedly have good customer service. I'm sure there's more than a few folks here who own one ( I don't) if you can coax them out of their lurking.

www.svsubwoofers.com