Alright, Let Me Try This Another Way...For Those of You That DO Collect Cinema on DVD [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

PDA

View Full Version : Alright, Let Me Try This Another Way...For Those of You That DO Collect Cinema on DVD



Lexmark3200
07-15-2005, 10:22 AM
With the advent of high definition video disc on the horizon, and while many home theater enthusiasts have already slowed down their purchasing ---- or stopped altogether ----- of standard DVD titles (I have not because I simply cannot live without cinema as a hobby), what is going to happen to the future of this home theater hobby? Are there going to be so many titles released at the same time, if HD DVD succeeds, that we are going to HAVE to replace most if not all the titles in our DVD collections we have now?

I have to say, that is going to be FINANCIALLY IMPOSSIBLE for someone like me, and I am not even sure if the technology is going to improve some titles way beyond what HD DVD promises in terms of audio and video quality; are any of you guys preparing to replace your ENTIRE DVD collection if and when this format arrives? Is it REALLY going to be that good of an improvement? Will it be the SAME kind of jump, say, as going from VHS to DVD, or it wont be THAT noticeable?

I just dont think I can re-purchase the massive collection of standard DVDs I have gathered already and spent just crazy loot on; when and if HD DVD arrives, will the hardware be "backward compatible" to be able to play our standard DVDs if we want as well, with improved clarity on THOSE standard discs?

I fear that the more I keep buying standard DVD, the closer Im getting to the whole expensive collection being completely obsolete, and Im going to have to replace that whole library with HD DVD, as I did going from VHS to DVD, and THAT was a VERY EXPENSIVE STRETCH for me......is it going to be THAT big of a jump, from DVD to HD DVD, as VHS was to DVD?

I mean, I havent even put a SMALL DENT in my DVD WANT LIST, which just continues to grow......and here comes HD DVD......what do we do?

Eric Z
07-15-2005, 10:35 AM
Here's some information i've read in various articles. Anyone- please correct me if i'm inaccurate. thanks.

*The quality from regular DVD to HD/Blu-ray will be noticeable. Some people say it will be the same difference between DVDs now and HDTV. I'm not sure how much of a change that is since I'm still in the SDTV world.
*The current DVDs will be compatible with the new HD/Blu-ray media players. However, if you want HD quality, you will need to purchase the DVD in the HD/Blu-ray format.
*Not sure how quickly HD/Blu-ray DVDs will be produced
*I read many different articles stating it will be a long long while (few years) for the HD/Blu-ray prices to be competitive. Not sure if that's accurate, but I just think about any new technology like HDTVs- the prices have dropped a lot, but still not as affordable as SDTVs.

I'm looking forward to others' responses- again, please correct my info if necessary.

Thanks.
Eric

EdwardGein
07-15-2005, 10:40 AM
I'm curious as to how this will look different. My regular DVD's I watch on my HD TV look great anyway via a Harmon Kardon 31 DVD player & I can't imagine them looking better, but I'll keep an open mind to check this out.

For HD TV, there is a night and day difference between watch HD TV, I just can't imagine there would be the same difference in movies. Hope they do DVD Shrink the HD version!
The guys who put that on the web for free ought to get a Nobel Award!

Lexmark3200
07-15-2005, 10:52 AM
"I'm curious as to how this will look different."

THATS what Im worried about --- WILL HD DVD look SO MUCH BETTER that we need to replace EVERY TITLE, if that happens, in our current collections?

"My regular DVD's I watch on my HD TV look great anyway via a Harmon Kardon 31 DVD player & I can't imagine them looking better, but I'll keep an open mind to check this out."

Well, I do have some discs in my collection which COULD DEFINITELY look better --- but Im not sure if any of these are even going to GET a high definition remaster or if the remaster will make any noticeable change to the print quality ---- I mean, if PREDATOR comes out on HD DVD, will it look LESS GRAINY than the version thats out now?

P.S. Did you take your name from the character the Texas Chainsaw Massacre was based on?

edtyct
07-15-2005, 10:54 AM
They will all look better, eventually to the point where if your favorite films exist in the superior format, you will not want to watch them any other way. The only saving grace is that many old, or cult, films might not make it to HD for a long time, if ever (as in my case), and you won't have to worry about spending the money. But then you may well start driving yourself crazy wishing that they would. It took a long time for me to reconcile to the fact that many of my faves on LD never made it to DVD (Criterion didn't, or couldn't, get the licensing, for example).

Ed

Lexmark3200
07-15-2005, 10:55 AM
Thanks for the info, Eric...

"The quality from regular DVD to HD/Blu-ray will be noticeable."

Oh boy.....what I didnt want to suspect because it may mean replacing an entire DVD collection.......

"The current DVDs will be compatible with the new HD/Blu-ray media players. However, if you want HD quality, you will need to purchase the DVD in the HD/Blu-ray format."

Figured as much; so the new HD DVD decks wont improve STANDARD DVD looks at ALL?

"Not sure how quickly HD/Blu-ray DVDs will be produced"

Do we have ANY information on when ANY of these are supposed to hit market?

Lexmark3200
07-15-2005, 11:07 AM
"They will all look better, eventually to the point where if your favorite films exist in the superior format, you will not want to watch them any other way."

Oh boy.....not what I wanted to hear ----- for selfish, economic problem reasons! Are they going to look TREMENDOUSLY BETTER than DVD thats out now? I mean are we talking a jump from VHS to DVD quality here? I dont know how to justify re-buying my entire catalog......I simply wont be able to......

"The only saving grace is that many old, or cult, films might not make it to HD for a long time, if ever (as in my case), and you won't have to worry about spending the money."

Well, as amazing as a saving grace this is, I HOPE there are MORE saving graces that will allow us to hold on to our existing DVD libraries.....

HAVIC
07-15-2005, 11:15 AM
From what I have read is that the jump from DVD to HD-DVD/Blu-Ray will not be as noticeable as when it went from VHS to DVD.

That being said I'm sure that there will be some poorly made HD-DVD discs at first that you can not see a difference. For example some of the first run dvd's look horrible compared to the re-re-mastered versions put out today. The best example I have is Hunt for the Red October. My friend bought this dvd when it first came out, when I put this dvd on my hdtv using progessive scan it looked like I was watching VHS. Fast forward a few years and I saw a newer remastered version and it looked great.

I would say as a whole you would not need to replace all of your dvd's to HD-DVD's because a 480P disc made really well can look better than a poorly made 1080i/720p. Also as with the original DVD's it may take a little while for the to remaster the dvd's to a point that it will look much better than 480p. And here is the real kicker, with 1080P reaching the market eventually there will be 1080p discs, so do you wait until then or jump out early and buy the hd-dvd right away.

Also for me I only plan to repurchase those titles that are visually spectacular. No reason to get the hd-dvd version of a movie like "school of rock" as it still looks good on dvd. Just my opinions. However movies like star wars will be repurchased.

I love technology but, the industry as a whole needs to settle on a standard and stick with it. It just seems that the change is coming faster and faster. Now I love the change as far as my computer goes and the small peripherals, but when I spent $3500 on a tv about 3 1/2 years ago and I'm told I might not be able to run hd-dvd it really pisses me off.

Greg

edtyct
07-15-2005, 11:33 AM
"Jumps" are relative. When DVD was announced, many LD aficianados doubted whether a popular medium, even one with better specs than our beloved LD, could possibly be handled well enough to dethrone a format that was pretty much confined to a bunch of slap-happy enthusiasts. Since DVD was slated to be a mass medium, would the providers be interested in maximizing video quality as much as the LD people were? Although the jump from LD to DVD was certainly not on the order of the one from VHS to LD, it made quite an impact on the LD market. If it had not run LD out of business purely on marketing grounds, LD would have died because of the mass exodus of its once-devotees to the DVD format, which, from the very beginning, surpassed it in every way, despite the existence of some lousy transfers, or of films that deteriorated too much to showcase the new potential. A format is as good as its best, not its worst.

We are now adjusted to a new video reality, which is based on the jump from analog and digital NTSC and ED DVD to a whole new standard. Does anyone dare to dispute the obvious superiority of HDTV over everything else? If so, check out the stations that film and broadcast in HD (like DiscoveryHD). Film is an inherently hi def medium. It has the potential to look much better on disk than on TV ( a lot of films have already been mastered in HD but plastered on DVD as 480). I respectfully disagree that the visual impact of high def DVD introduction will pale in comparison to that of DVD as we know it now. In fact, I don't believe that they are comparable situations.

Ed

Lexmark3200
07-15-2005, 11:35 AM
"From what I have read is that the jump from DVD to HD-DVD/Blu-Ray will not be as noticeable as when it went from VHS to DVD."

Thank God......some hopeful news........

"That being said I'm sure that there will be some poorly made HD-DVD discs at first that you can not see a difference. For example some of the first run dvd's look horrible compared to the re-re-mastered versions put out today."

VERY VERY TRUE ---- and if you have ever read any of my DVD reviews, Warner Brothers seems to be the biggest victim of this of all the studios.......

"The best example I have is Hunt for the Red October. My friend bought this dvd when it first came out, when I put this dvd on my hdtv using progessive scan it looked like I was watching VHS. Fast forward a few years and I saw a newer remastered version and it looked great."

Agreed; the new version of HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER with the added DTS track was a big improvement over Paramount's first release; but is THIS what is going to continually happen with HD DVD, too? We are going to have to wait for REMASTERED VERSIONS of HIGH DEFINITION titles? WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS TECHNOLOGY then?

"I would say as a whole you would not need to replace all of your dvd's to HD-DVD's because a 480P disc made really well can look better than a poorly made 1080i/720p."

Ahhhhhhhh......some comfort......okay......

"Also as with the original DVD's it may take a little while for the to remaster the dvd's to a point that it will look much better than 480p. And here is the real kicker, with 1080P reaching the market eventually there will be 1080p discs, so do you wait until then or jump out early and buy the hd-dvd right away."

Oh boy.....can this be confirmed though because Im losing hair here.....lol.....there will be a SOFTWARE STANDARD that is going to EXCEED HD DVD's FIRST RELEASE? Oh no.....when does it END?

"Also for me I only plan to repurchase those titles that are visually spectacular. No reason to get the hd-dvd version of a movie like "school of rock" as it still looks good on dvd. Just my opinions. However movies like star wars will be repurchased."

Good point......perhaps titles that are ABSOLUTELY necessary in HD DVD should be purchased, like you said, Star Wars or perhaps Star Trek.......

"I love technology but, the industry as a whole needs to settle on a standard and stick with it. It just seems that the change is coming faster and faster. Now I love the change as far as my computer goes and the small peripherals, but when I spent $3500 on a tv about 3 1/2 years ago and I'm told I might not be able to run hd-dvd it really pisses me off."

Tell me about it......this whole friggin hobby thats supposed to be fun is beginning to piss me off and turn me off because I feel like I cant "keep on top of" all the new emerging technologies; I mean, like I said, I havent even put a DENT in my REGULAR DVD want list, and here comes new formats like wildfire......

Thanks for the input, Greg!

Lexmark3200
07-15-2005, 11:45 AM
"Film is an inherently hi def medium. It has the potential to look much better on disk than on TV ( a lot of films have already been mastered in HD but plastered on DVD as 480)."

Yes, this I know Ed, as on the back of many Columbia/TriStar DVDs, the transfer says "MASTERED IN HIGH DEFINITION".....but are we getting that high definition "look" by playing these DVDs back on our regular DVD players now without HD DVD decks?

"I respectfully disagree that the visual impact of high def DVD introduction will pale in comparison to that of DVD as we know it now. In fact, I don't believe that they are comparable situations."

So, what are you saying? I dont think anyone in here was even attempting to suggest HD DVD will look WORSE than DVD --- unless you are referring to the comments that first-pressing HD DVD will have the same problems DVD had when they first came out, which I agree with you on that I DONT BELIEVE that will happen.

edtyct
07-15-2005, 12:11 PM
No, you don't get a specifically hi def look when you play anything mastered in hi def at non-hi def resolutions, but you might get a more elusive benefit as a kind of trickle down.

My other point is that the visual impact of hi def DVD on our current video world will not somehow be smaller than the impact of DVD on the VHS world, if the two impacts are even measureable on the same scale. The terrain has changed dramatically since VHS fell, economically as well as techonologically. Those who care will be very excited about the look of hi def DVD, as were those who cared about the first wave of DVD. I don't believe that the extent of the jump, as measured in scan lines (or pixels), has anything to do it. And the truth is, if it did--that is, if hi def DVD's impact is to be dependent on improvement in measured resolution alone--then the impact of hi def DVD over ED DVD stands to be greater than the impact of DVD over VHS, because the change in resolution is even greater.

I'm done with this topic. I'm beginning not to understand myself.

Ed

shokhead
07-15-2005, 12:17 PM
I'm not replacing my DVD's because they are good enough of a format to please me and because it's what THEY want. I belive THEY already have another format but THEY will wait until THEY have got more of our money before THEY release it. Super Duper HD DVD or something like that.

Lexmark3200
07-15-2005, 12:30 PM
"No, you don't get a specifically hi def look when you play anything mastered in hi def at non-hi def resolutions, but you might get a more elusive benefit as a kind of trickle down."

So, is that why the DVD studios market these as "MASTERED IN HIGH DEF" as just some kind of marketing ploy? If we're just getting a trickled down improvement in quality, would these "mastered in high def" DVDs play back better on HD DVD decks when they come out, or does it have more to do with the DISPLAYS were watching them on?

"My other point is that the visual impact of hi def DVD on our current video world will not somehow be smaller than the impact of DVD on the VHS world, if the two impacts are even measureable on the same scale. The terrain has changed dramatically since VHS fell, economically as well as techonologically. Those who care will be as excited about the look of hi def DVD as they were about the first wave of DVD. I don't believe that the jump in quality has anything to do with it."

So, are you saying the LOOK of HD DVD ---- which was my main concern ---- will not be, in your opinion, AS DRAMATIC a change as everyone is expecting? What Im concerned with here is that HD DVD is going to make out standard DVDs we watch now as bad looking as VHS looks to us now-------will it be THAT much of a difference? I wont be able to justify buying my whole DVD collection all over again.......

edtyct
07-15-2005, 12:42 PM
Okay, one more time. "Mastered in high def" might have some marketing ploy about it, in the same sense that loudspeakers, headphones, TV antennas, etc. were marketed as "digital ready" when "digital" was novel and "all the rage." But the truth is that the people who manufacture this equipment keep improving it. Hi def mastering is now the state of the art, and it carries improvements, some you probably could understand off the cuff and some you couldn't. It isn't all just a conspiracy to take your money. Knowledge and know-how keep evolving; the culture and the economy don't always keep up. You may want to dig your heels in the sand for one reason or another and say, "I'm stopping here. Everything that's offered to me from now on is just larceny." But that's an arbitrary position. Why didn't you say that during the VHS day, which, to some people, was just fine and dandy--until the world, and they, changed in spite of the particular moment in time that they decided was a proper conclusion? It ain't gonna stand still for you forever; even in utopia, people and things will change. Somehow, we'll need an economy and culture that supports the fact that life keeps plunging forward, whether you choose, or are able, to buy into everything that progresses or not. But I guarantee that the new things will not come without some price, even if it isn't in dollars and cents, and that eventually all of your lines in the sand will wash away.

Ed

Sir Terrence the Terrible
07-15-2005, 01:37 PM
There is alot of speculation about the benefits of HD-DVD, but very few have really seen demos. I have seen demo's of 1080i which is HD-DVD resolution, and its benefits are easily seen when compared to 480i or 480P. IMO it does compare to the LD to DVD transition based on picture improvements. I think the real benefits of both new formats will be bit for bit uncompressed audio with the potential of more channels, interaction, meta data for motion control on seats, and uncompressed music at 24/96khz for HD DVD and 24/192khz for BlueRay.

I was an earler adopter for beta, LD, DCC SACD DVD-A, and DAT. I will not be one for these formats. Either a universal player would have to be offered, or one format will have to emerge as the winner. As of a couple of days ago, universal players may be possible thanks to a company that developed an adjustable laser that can play everything under the sun.

Lexmark3200
07-15-2005, 01:50 PM
Thanks for the great info, Terrence....

"I have seen demo's of 1080i which is HD-DVD resolution, and its benefits are easily seen when compared to 480i or 480P. IMO it does compare to the LD to DVD transition based on picture improvements."

But does that mean that there is going to be AS DRASTIC a "jump" in picture quality from standard DVD to HD DVD --- a jump AS dramatic as VHS to DVD, do you think?

"I think the real benefits of both new formats will be bit for bit uncompressed audio with the potential of more channels, interaction, meta data for motion control on seats, and uncompressed music at 24/96khz for HD DVD and 24/192khz for BlueRay."

And do you think enough hardware will come out to support the extra channels on HD DVD titles? Well, I guess so because some flagship receivers already have almost 10.1 powers of amplification! Well, not THAT far, but you know what I mean......do you really think its going to go ABOVE and BEYOND 6.1 or even 7.1 for HOME THEATER use?

"I was an earler adopter for beta, LD, DCC SACD DVD-A, and DAT. I will not be one for these formats. Either a universal player would have to be offered, or one format will have to emerge as the winner. As of a couple of days ago, universal players may be possible thanks to a company that developed an adjustable laser that can play everything under the sun."

So, you personally are sticking with STANDARD DVD that we have now?

steamboy 2
07-15-2005, 02:14 PM
I think that the only real titles i will be in a rush to replace is my LD's & non anamorphic DVD's, but replace my whole collection that has at least 300 DVD'S & not to encluding my LD'S ? the only way that going to happen is the new formats have to be a night & day in overall performance. sure there's going to be improvements, but to give up alot of high performance current DVD'S ? that's too much money to reinvest for a everyday working man like myself. for now just enjoy what we home theater men & women have right now untill this new format war has cleared up.


mike

Lexmark3200
07-15-2005, 02:27 PM
I think that the only real titles i will be in a rush to replace is my LD's & non anamorphic DVD's, but replace my whole collection that has at least 300 DVD'S & not to encluding my LD'S ? the only way that going to happen is the new formats have to be a night & day in overall performance. sure there's going to be improvements, but to give up alot of high performance current DVD'S ? that's too much money to reinvest for a everyday working man like myself. for now just enjoy what we home theater men & women have right now untill this new format war has cleared up.


mike

Great, level-headed answer to this, Mike, thanks..........I cant justify replacing ALL my discs, either........and I think you're right......for now, lets just watch standard DVD and not upgrade our players even until this format war finds its bitter end.........

Woochifer
07-15-2005, 04:26 PM
So long as there's a format war going between Blu-ray and HD-DVD, I'm going to sit it out as will quite a few other consumers. No sense in committing to one format versus the other, when there's a very real possibility of one format disappearing from the market within the first few years.

When VHS reigned, I barely purchased any movies because VHS was primarily a pan & scan format, tapes would wear out, the soundtracks were limited to two-channel, and there were no other features that enhanced their collectability. Laserdisc addressed those shortcomings, but the players and discs were expensive and cumbersome to use. DVD addressed all of VHS's shortcomings and has the added advantage of ubiquity, low cost, convenience, and better multichannel audio implementation. My current DVD collection is closing in on 300 titles, and the only justification for repurchasing any of them would be if my future video and audio systems allow for Blu-ray/HD-DVD's improvements to make a difference.

The benefit to HD will depend on the display. The bigger the display, the more noticeable the benefit. And on the audio front, DTS-HD and DD+ will be the new audio formats, but it remains to be seen if the audio tracks included on the actual release discs will take advantage of the higher resolution, potential for additional audio tracks, and lossless capability that these formats offer. But, like I said at the outset, so long as we got two formats in the market with no means of resolving between them (i.e. a universal player), then I'll stick with DVD.

musicman1999
07-15-2005, 04:29 PM
good question
my dvd collection is about 125 discs,and i cant see myself replacing more than 20-25
discs.star wars(george will get my money for the 4th time)lord of the rings trilogy,maybe
star trek,movies such as that will get the upgrade treatment.movies like bull durham,mars attacks,the generals daughter,will most likely not.
we have time though,because the new hardware will not be cheap and only early adopters will jump on that bandwagon right away.i,for one,am just finishing a 2 year journey down the upgrade path and really dont want to start again.every component in my system has been replaced over the last two years,but i am weak.cant wait for my first demo.
i am interested in the audio end of these new formats,i think there is a chance for great things with them

anyway just my two cents
bill

topspeed
07-15-2005, 05:41 PM
I've been thinking about this a lot lately as I've finally ordered my HD set and am now upgrading everything upstream: New Dish stb w/ dvr, new dvd player (my old Sony doesn't even have DTS or prog scan!). Now originally, I was planning on getting a nice universal player like a Denon 2910, but now I'm not so sure sacd and dvda are even viable mediums. It certainly seems like the releases have dwindled in recent months. Still, I've got so much money invested in my speakers it seems like a damn shame to not utilize their potential with multi-channel hi-rez. To compound the confusion, we have HD-DVD and Blu-Ray to consider. I've heard the PS3 is going to have both SACD and Blu-Ray capability so I might just wait for that, but I'm not sure how good the audio quality will be. Ughhh...

So now I'm thinking of getting a cheap $250 dvd player with 720p as a stopgap and then upgrade again once this whole HD-DVD/Blu-ray debacle shakes out. I've heard Samsung and Panny both make excellent dvd players for <$200, but more research is in order.

EdwardGein
07-15-2005, 11:04 PM
P.S. Did you take your name from the character the Texas Chainsaw Massacre was based on?[/QUOTE]

Actually Eduardo was the devine inspiration for Tony Perkins.

Lexmark3200
07-16-2005, 12:50 AM
P.S. Did you take your name from the character the Texas Chainsaw Massacre was based on?

Actually Eduardo was the devine inspiration for Tony Perkins.[/QUOTE]

Well, I was referring to the "Ed Gein" who was the guy they based the "Leatherface" character off of in Texas Chainsaw Massacre.........

Lexmark3200
07-16-2005, 03:11 AM
Thanks for all the replies, fellas.......I guess this has been a pretty hot topic amongst home theater enthusiasts, as I suspected.....

So, do we have any "final consensus" in here? I think we're all in agreement that we're gonna hold onto our DVD collections for now (well, we have no choice AT THIS VERY MOMENT) until one of these new formats proves itself or wins the consumer war, and when that happens, we'll upgrade titles we REALLY deem as important?

I dont know about anyone else, but there is simply NO WAY I am going to be able to upgrade my entire standard DVD collection, even IF every title WERE available, which, as suggested in here already, probably wont be. Although, I said the same thing about my MASSIVE VHS collection, that I wouldnt switch over to any other format because it would seem impossible to re-collect all those films......but when I got sold on DVD, that was it----no more VHS for me. Of course, though, keep in mind.....my VHS collection was MAINLY made up of stuff I TAPED OFF OF CABLE, not STORE BOUGHT films, so now that I am investing a ton of cash on DVD titles, I just dont know if I can re-buy most of them again, and spend that money AGAIN, if they come out on HD-DVD......I havent even finished replacing all my VHS TITLES I want on standard DVD yet, and now Im going to have to worry about replacing DVD TITLES with HD DVD TITLES?

shokhead
07-16-2005, 04:32 AM
A bit different going from tape to a whole new format such as a round disc was. HD is to me just an improved disc. Now if it was like the size of a quarter or a chip then that might tweak my interest a bit more. I would'nt have a problem recording HD onto a hard drive you could take out and replace with a new,empty one into my TiVo.

Lexmark3200
07-17-2005, 10:20 AM
Does anyone have a final word on this; are we going to sit out the HD DVD Blu Ray wars and see what happens, and are we going to NEED to replace our DVD collections which I sure as hell hope not because mine is growing beyond budget and beyond belief?

Does anyone think HD DVD will last, as the industry is still trying to figure out about SACD and DVD Audio, once it does come out? Do we need to worry that our current standard DVD collections are going to be completely obsolete --- or not as drastic a move from VHS to DVD?

markw
07-17-2005, 11:00 AM
When cassettes came out I didn't have to replace my vinyl.
When three variants of quad stereo came out I didn't have to replace my 2 vchannel vinyl.
When MoFi came out with remastered vinyl I didn't have to replace my standard vinyl.
When CD's came out I didn't have to replace my vinyl & CD's.
When MoFi came out with remastered gold Cd's I didn't have to replace my regular CD's
When DVD's came out I didn't have to replace my VHS tapes.
When SACD and DVD-Audio came out I didn't have to replace my other CD's.
when either one of these formats takes over I won't replace my current DVD's.

Unless you get rid of what you play them on, there's no need to ever replace anything.

Lexmark3200
07-17-2005, 11:02 AM
When cassettes came out I didn't replace my vinyl.
When MoFi came out with remastered vinyl I didn't have to replace my standard vinyl.
When CD's came out I didn't replace my vinyl & CD's.
When MoFi came out with remastered gold Cd's I didn't replace my regular CD's
When SACD and DVD-Audio came out I didn't replace my other CD's.

Unless you get rid of what you play them on, there's no need to ever replace anything.

Yes, I realize you NEVER NEED to replace any medium, Mark, but lets be honest here....the jump from VHS to DVD was APPARENT in quality and I IMMEDIATELY began replacing my VHS collection once hooked on DVD ---- I AM HOPING, is what Im saying, THAT THIS DOESNT HAPPEN WITH THE MOVE TO HD DVD.........

EdwardGein
07-17-2005, 11:44 AM
I'm not really into collecting DVD's per se. Generally once I see a movie that's that but every once in a while I'll make a DVD copy for a particularly memorable one & generally am able to find a DVD cover of it online to print as well. So in direct answer to the question, no I won't buy DVD's to replace other DVD's which I don't bu anyway.

CD's were a whole different story. I hate vinyl probably due to my own lack of care of them- I scrached up most of the 2000 albums I had & was only to happy to replace them with CD's.
I no longer own either a record player or a record. The problem I face and I'm sure alot if you as well is the way the record industry has scammed us, which I feel falls between intentional and unibtentional. The cycle generally goes like this (I'm referring basically to reissued material). The record company puts out a CD of an old album. The sound generally isn't that good. Company claims the master recordings were lost and they put out the CD from the album. 10 months go by and the company says, wow we found the original recordings. They put this new improved version out. People complain about the sound. Company says, wow you're right we were given a safety copy of alternative mixes. Company then claims to find the real masters, They put this out.9 months later company claims to have made a technological breakthrough and has remastered the CD with bonus tracks. It's an endless cycle & I 've wasted many a buck on this.

Lexmark3200
07-17-2005, 01:12 PM
"I'm not really into collecting DVD's per se. Generally once I see a movie that's that but every once in a while I'll make a DVD copy for a particularly memorable one & generally am able to find a DVD cover of it online to print as well. So in direct answer to the question, no I won't buy DVD's to replace other DVD's which I don't bu anyway."

Well, Ed, being that this is a home theater forum (well, this PARTICULAR forum that were in now is) and I AM a serious home theater hobbyist with nearly 2,000 DVD titles on multiple shelves, I do take the art of collecting cinema very seriously and so my question I guess is more directed to those with massive DVD collections that feel one day they may need to actually replace those with High Definition DVD......

Wireworm5
07-17-2005, 03:24 PM
I have an upscaler and that's good enough for me. I know I'll be tempted to get a Blu-ray player when they come out, but realisticlly for me I would only buy new released movies that are filmed in HD resolution. And I find very few movies that interest me as it is. I prefer movies that actually have a story line and not just special effects, which just happens to be mostly older movies. So until the price drops to an affordable level for Blu-ray, I'd just be throwing my money away.
I'm more likely to get an HD satelite receiver when it becomes industry standard that all channels and movies are filmed in HD. The way I see it now, except for a few sporting events and documentaries, what your getting from HD cable/satelitte is an upscaled version of movies. Basically what I'm getting now when I buy regular movies to view with my upscaler, rather than spending money on rental fees for an HD receiver. I'm content with watching tv shows that are broadcast in widescreen viewed at 480p on my tv.
But that's me, for someone like yourself that has a real interest in movies whatever the subject then I wouldn't hesitate in purchasing Blu-ray if you are going to get enough use out of it to justify having one.

robert393
07-17-2005, 03:28 PM
Last week I HAD TO HAVE (don't we always...lol?) THE UNFORGIVEN & CASINO. Immediately upon opening my new movies, I told my wife "remind me not to buy anymore DVD's, because the new HD format will be out by Christmas".

I have about 200 dvd's and I am not at all happy with the idea of replacing my collection, BUT I am happy that I will have the OPTION! Personally I think my DVD's look wonderful when projected on my 133" screen, but I believe the new HD format will make my dvd collection (480p) look pretty bad in comparisone.

I will ahve the new HD format, and I will purchase HD-DVD's, but I will build my collection slowly...not trashing the existing collection.

I am very excited about the new format, and look forward to seeing it!~

Robert

EdwardGein
07-17-2005, 03:48 PM
"Well, Ed, being that this is a home theater forum (well, this PARTICULAR forum that were in now is) and I AM a serious home theater hobbyist with nearly 2,000 DVD titles on multiple shelves, I do take the art of collecting cinema very seriously and so my question I guess is more directed to those with massive DVD collections that feel one day they may need to actually replace those with High Definition DVD" -Lexmark 3200

My interpretation of this forum is a place to get information about audio and video home theater related equipment. Discussions on collecting DVD's aren't suppose to be on this specific forum as the moderators are only to happy to take any questions I have on audio magazines & cables and put them on another less perused part of this forum. I don't think 95% of this board actually collects DVD's the way you do & think most of the people are on this board for audio and video information.

Anyway, if you collect DVD's more power to you, I personally don't see the point at all as what are you going to do, watch the same DVD's over and over again. I basically feel the same way about books- yes I've kept a few books I considered classics, but for the most part didn't see a purpose in keeping them after I read them.
:D :D :D :D

markw
07-17-2005, 08:02 PM
Yes, I realize you NEVER NEED to replace any medium, Mark, but lets be honest here....the jump from VHS to DVD was APPARENT in quality and I IMMEDIATELY began replacing my VHS collection once hooked on DVD ---- I AM HOPING, is what Im saying, THAT THIS DOESNT HAPPEN WITH THE MOVE TO HD DVD.........So, what you are really saying is that you hope these new formats aren't that much of a difference?

That's quite a conundrum... On the one hand you say that, as a collector, you want the best money can buy. Yet, on the other hand, you don't want this to be a breakthrough in the quality so you can save money.

Remember, the jump from VHS to DVD was more than just small, incremental improvement. It was a magnitude of improvement from VHS picture and four matrixed audio channels to an all digital format, which now can have up to six (or more) DISCRETE audio channels.

But I didn't go out and buy DVD versions of the movies I already had. Of course, If I buy a movie today, you can bet it'll be on DVD. We watch some VHS tapes 'cause that's what some movies were on when I bought 'em and ya know what??? We can still enjoy the heck outta them and DPL2 does quite a credible job on the sound also.

StanleyMuso
07-17-2005, 11:00 PM
something, whether its music or film, is because we love or enjoy something about it? Just because it comes out in a new format doesn't mean it automatically gets better. I can't see how an old black and white classic could look better in a new format - after all, it was not filmed in HD in the first place, and sound recording technology was not as good either. Admittedly, a DVD copy is much more convenient to store than a VHS, and the VHS will fade and wear out over time, but until it does, why throw it out? I recently bought a film on DVD which I already owned on VHS - what a let down. The transfer to DVD was abominable - the picture was fuzzy, the colours ran into each other and the there was a hiss on the sound track. The VHS version is still perfect. So I say, until it wears out, don't throw it out.

edtyct
07-18-2005, 05:16 AM
How you define "better" has a lot to do with it. When CD first arrived, it certainly didn't sound better than vinyl, but it had other more important advantages for most people (and for manufacturers). And the enjoyment of a movie isn't logically connected with its viewing format. But one of the strong arguments for improving formats in both audio and video is that it promotes the willing suspension of disbelief; in other words, it encourages total immersion in the experience of watching/listening by further approximating "reality" and having fewer distracting artifacts. Agreeing with this point, however, might depend on holding the hidden premise that audio and video quality already matter. For some people, however, it simply doesn't. Personally, I get all excited about the march of technology (though not at the expense of ethics or otherwise humane issues). To each his own. By the way, I don't agree about black and white classics not looking better on higher-resolution formats. Film is a high rez format that can stand up to whatever video format we throw at it. In fact, not even high definition as we know it can capture the detail and the nuance that belongs inherently to film. A good print of a film noir is much smoother and deeper in contrast than a digital reproduction, and a VHS tape isn't even in the ballpark.

Ed

MCF
07-18-2005, 06:32 AM
I didn't really care until I got my new set this past weekend and can really tell a difference between HD cable (720p) and DVD (480p).....I want HD DVD now so I can start buying them...I only have about 25 regular DVD's so I won't mind building a new collection of HD DVD's....and what resolution is HD DVD's going to be at? And before you ask, I got a Pioneer Elite 1120HD...no buzzing sound or anything from the set and I am actually very satisfied with it so far...only thing I have noticed is that in VERY dark scenes there is a VERY small 'ghost affect' which I understand is typical for plasma..this only happens on DVD's and not HD tv....

Lexmark3200
07-18-2005, 09:38 AM
.......do you THINK we are going to need to REPLACE our DVD collections --- for those of you that DO buy films to keep in a "collection" --- once HD DVD arrives, or will it be more of an "addition" to our collections? I cannot financially justify replacing all my standard Digital Versatile Discs which I havent even came CLOSE to finishing collecting; will this be as big a jump to HD DVD as VHS was to standard DVD?

Should we just, as most have been suggesting, sit out this high definition war and see where we are when the dust settles?

Woochifer
07-18-2005, 11:44 AM
As others have already stated repeatedly in your other repetitive threads, nobody ever "needs" to replace anything so long as they got the titles in their collection, and the hardware available to play it back. People will replace a title if the new version offers something of value TO THEM. For some people, the extra resolution on HD-DVD and Blu-ray will matter enough to upgrade their entire DVD collection, for others, it won't matter enough to upgrade anything. For some people, the DD+ and DTS-HD soundtracks will be the greatest thing ever and feel that the sound resolution increases alone justify the upgrade, while for others it won't matter at all.

In general, it's pointless to even speculate on whether a mass migration to the new formats will occur when:

1) we don't even know the final output specs on the new players yet (i.e. will they output in HD thru the analog component video outputs or only through the copy protected HDMI connections? will they support 1080p? etc.);
2) there's still a format war looming, which will impede the progress on any format until universal players come out or one format prevails or both formats crash and burn in the market;
3) we have no idea whether or not the new HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs will add any compelling extras beyond what we already have with DVD; and
4) DD+ and DTS-HD decoders aren't even out yet, and we have no idea how or even if the lossless and extra channel capabilities of the new sound formats will be utilized on the new HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs.

Lexmark3200
07-18-2005, 11:56 AM
As others have already stated repeatedly in your other repetitive threads, nobody ever "needs" to replace anything so long as they got the titles in their collection, and the hardware available to play it back. People will replace a title if the new version offers something of value TO THEM. For some people, the extra resolution on HD-DVD and Blu-ray will matter enough to upgrade their entire DVD collection, for others, it won't matter enough to upgrade anything. For some people, the DD+ and DTS-HD soundtracks will be the greatest thing ever and feel that the sound resolution increases alone justify the upgrade, while for others it won't matter at all.

In general, it's pointless to even speculate on whether a mass migration to the new formats will occur when:

1) we don't even know the final output specs on the new players yet (i.e. will they output in HD thru the analog component video outputs or only through the copy protected HDMI connections? will they support 1080p? etc.);
2) there's still a format war looming, which will impede the progress on any format until universal players come out or one format prevails or both formats crash and burn in the market;
3) we have no idea whether or not the new HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs will add any compelling extras beyond what we already have with DVD; and
4) DD+ and DTS-HD decoders aren't even out yet, and we have no idea how or even if the lossless and extra channel capabilities of the new sound formats will be utilized on the new HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs.

Alright, relax there buddy.....I guess what you summed up is what I was asking in a more simple way; guess we shall wait.....I just wanted to know if there were others --- and if you feel inclined not to participate in this discussion any further because you feel its too "repetitive" thats fine --- that are already wondering what they are going to do with their DVD collections once this new format arrives, if it arrives, or what. I was just asking for OPINIONS, thats all.....curious as to how others are going to handle the new technology......if they're gonna keep their DVDs, replace them all, etc.......

Inkjet3200
07-18-2005, 12:54 PM
I have a ENORMOUS collection of DVDís.Just to give you a BIG sense...of the SIZE of my COLLECTION...IMAGINE if YOU will a really BIG ONE. I just canít BUY them fast enough . I'm going to HAVE TO burn of THESE DVD's. The ARRIVAL of a new yet INCREMENTALLY BETTER format is going to COMPLETELY RUIN my appreciation of everything I have EVER PURCHASED and even though the players will BE backward compatible, just KNOWING the player is capable of playing a NEWER format will bug me SO much I'm not only going to REPLACE my DVD's with the new format--I'm collecting a BIG PILE of wood and COMBUSTIBLES so I can be ready to burn THESE when the next format comes out. I would want to ask ONLY those persons who ALSO INTEND to BURN their DVDís what THEY think the BEST WAY to BURN DVDís is. I was always told that GASOLINE was best. Is that normalÖ.I donít THINK.

Woochifer
07-18-2005, 01:01 PM
I didn't really care until I got my new set this past weekend and can really tell a difference between HD cable (720p) and DVD (480p).....I want HD DVD now so I can start buying them...I only have about 25 regular DVD's so I won't mind building a new collection of HD DVD's....and what resolution is HD DVD's going to be at? And before you ask, I got a Pioneer Elite 1120HD...no buzzing sound or anything from the set and I am actually very satisfied with it so far...only thing I have noticed is that in VERY dark scenes there is a VERY small 'ghost affect' which I understand is typical for plasma..this only happens on DVD's and not HD tv....

One point I think you've missed is that TWO incompatible and competing HD disc formats are coming out. HD-DVD was developed by the same Toshiba/Warner consortium that developed the DVD format and holds most of the DVD patents, while Blu-ray is a format being pushed by Sony and a consortium of hardware manufacturers that include Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Apple, Dell, and others.

HD-DVD comes out at the end of the year, and Blu-ray is due sometime early next year (the new Playstation 3 is supposed to come with Blu-ray drive, and that could play a decisive role). The output specs are not complete on either format, but they will at least support 720p through a copy protected digital connection such as HDMI. Neither side has finalized what resolution will output through the analog component video connections (studios have pushed for manufacturers to limit the analog video resolution to 480p -- the same as progressive DVD), or whether the first batch of players will support 1080p.

When people talk about a format war, this is what they have referred to. With players projected to cost around $1,000 at launch, and neither format with a decided studio support advantage (it's pretty much split down the middle with Sony, MGM, Fox, and Disney backing Blu-ray, and Warner, Paramount, and Universal backing HD-DVD), it would be foolhardy to throw all that much money behind one format or another, given how much uncertainty there is about which format or even both of them might fail in the market. If the parties involved come to their senses and negotiate a single HD disc format, then it will better the prospects of a successful format launch, but also delay the introduction as both sides iron out the technical details.

Lexmark3200
07-18-2005, 01:02 PM
I have a ENORMOUS collection of DVDís.Just to give you a BIG sense...of the SIZE of my COLLECTION...IMAGINE if YOU will a really BIG ONE. I just canít BUY them fast enough . I'm going to HAVE TO burn of THESE DVD's. The ARRIVAL of a new yet INCREMENTALLY BETTER format is going to COMPLETELY RUIN my appreciation of everything I have EVER PURCHASED and even though the players will BE backward compatible, just KNOWING the player is capable of playing a NEWER format will bug me SO much I'm not only going to REPLACE my DVD's with the new format--I'm collecting a BIG PILE of wood and COMBUSTIBLES so I can be ready to burn THESE when the next format comes out. I would want to ask ONLY those persons who ALSO INTEND to BURN their DVDís what THEY think the BEST WAY to BURN DVDís is. I was always told that GASOLINE was best. Is that normalÖ.I donít THINK.

Hmmmmmmm.......interesting screen name you have there.....very clever.....and I wonder who could have written this and created this overtly clever, clever screen name.....hmmmmmmmm.......the options are actually endless when you think about it, but a few names come specifically to mind...........

JSE
07-18-2005, 01:21 PM
Wooch,

You make some good points. There will always be people who have to be at the front edge of every new technology out there. Me, I will sit back, wait and see. Why worry about something that you have no control over.

What about this? Do you think a disk will even be necessary in the near future? Look at Mp3. I wonder if movies will move that way? Download and burn. You will probably be able to download music and movies right into your A/V receiver before long or some other external audio/video component. You can already use your computer to play Mp3 files through a A/V receiver. I doubt it will be to much longer before the computer and A/V receiver are fully integrated. Why build a library now when the future is sooooo uncertain. It's just a matter or time and I bet it's sooner than later.

JSE

edtyct
07-18-2005, 01:29 PM
Actually, Microsoft's WMV/HD isn't disk-based at all like DVD of the past. It's a purely hard-drive driven format, though set-top units are available. Some people regard it as a major player capable of upsetting the Toshiba and Sony camps.

Ed

EdwardGein
07-18-2005, 01:39 PM
I have to admit, I don't get this hobby. Is the purpose to build a film library or just to collect DVD's in boxes with nice artwork? If the purpose is to build a film library, then just get a burner, Nero software, get DVD shrink (decrypts movies) for free online & join Netflix & save a large amount of cash. You can get cases cheaply on Ebay & there are some free web sites that you can download the commercial DVD covers of your movies as well.

If the purpose is just to accumulate a dvd in a box put put by a commercial company, then if you have the money to spend on that on a large scale it won't make a difference if you have to buy the same stuff again on HD because you habve the money in the first place,

JSE
07-18-2005, 01:44 PM
Actually, Microsoft's WMV/HD isn't disk-based at all like DVD of the past. It's a purely hard-drive driven format, though set-top units are available. Some people regard it as a major player capable of upsetting the Toshiba and Sony camps.

Ed

Interesting! I really think physical storage devises for movies and music will be a thing of the past eventually. Now, how long? I don't know. ALl the more reason to rent! Cheaper and future proof. Especially since you can now rent DVDs for about $1/day.

JSE

Sir Terrence the Terrible
07-18-2005, 01:50 PM
I have to admit, I don't get this hobby. Is the purpose to build a film library or just to collect DVD's in boxes with nice artwork? If the purpose is to build a film library, then just get a burner, Nero software, get DVD shrink (decrypts movies) for free online & join Netflix & save a large amount of cash. You can get cases cheaply on Ebay & there are some free web sites that you can download the commercial DVD covers of your movies as well.

If the purpose is just to accumulate a dvd in a box put put by a commercial company, then if you have the money to spend on that on a large scale it won't make a difference if you have to buy the same stuff again on HD because you habve the money in the first place,

Edward, the police is knocking at your door man.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
07-18-2005, 01:53 PM
Interesting! I really think physical storage devises for movies and music will be a thing of the past eventually. Now, how long? I don't know. ALl the more reason to rent! Cheaper and future proof. Especially since you can now rent DVDs for about $1/day.

JSE

I agree with you, but I loath renting because I have gotten more scratched, dirty, unplayable disc from my rental stores than I can live with. Plus, I tend to look a movies more than one time, and sometimes more than three times and I wouldn't like paying rental charges twice or three times for the same movie. There is just something about having a DVD at your touch, at your control that is appealing to me. I just never know when the urge to watch Star Wars for the three hundreth time will hit me.

JSE
07-18-2005, 02:00 PM
I agree with you, but I loath renting because I have gotten more scratched, dirty, unplayable disc from my rental stores than I can live with. Plus, I tend to look a movies more than one time, and sometimes more than three times and I wouldn't like paying rental charges twice or three times for the same movie. There is just something about having a DVD at your touch, at your control that is appealing to me. I just never know when the urge to watch Star Wars for the three hundreth time will hit me.


I do buy DVDs. There are some I can just watch over and over. These are generally comedies. Van Wilder ($6 at wallyworld), Harold and Kumar, Old School, Animal House, Caddy Shack, Princess Bride, etc. And, some action and dramas. I just don't go out and buy every new release to hit the shelves like some people do. I own about 30 DVDs. I might buy 1, maybe 2 a month. Now Concert DVDs, that's another story. I have many.

JSE

Lexmark3200
07-18-2005, 02:06 PM
"There is just something about having a DVD at your touch, at your control that is appealing to me."

.....and THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT DVD COLLECTING IS ALL ABOUT, in a nutshell.....you summed it up yourself perfectly, Terrence......what people who DONT collect recorded cinema media dont understand is that there is something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT about watching a piece of cinema on cable and watching it out of YOUR OWN DVD collection, where you can pause, skip, adjust Dolby Digital and DTS sound algorithms......there is something MUCH MUCH different about having and touching pre-recorded media in a collection than simply "catching it" on TV..............

Lexmark3200
07-18-2005, 02:06 PM
Just to provide some feedback to some folks that "dont get" the whole DVD collecting hobby thing, just jump onto Home Theater Forum.com or Home Theater Discussion.com and take a look under their "DVD" threads ---- there are guys who take this so seriously they have rooms devoted to storing their media; I am on my way there too, with nearly 2,000 titles of all genres devoted to the hobby; so THIS is why I am so concerned about this new format that's about to rear its head (HD DVD) because of my unbelievably MASSIVE investment in standard DVD titles......will these titles and their quality on the standard DVD format become obsolete totally like VHS is becoming? THIS is what I wonder......

And Im not kidding about those websites.......in particular, go on Home Theater Forum.com and look under FILMS ON DVD.......these guys are FANATICAL about their DVD collections.......

Lexmark3200
07-18-2005, 02:14 PM
"I have to admit, I don't get this hobby. Is the purpose to build a film library or just to collect DVD's in boxes with nice artwork?"

Read the above replies................

"If the purpose is just to accumulate a dvd in a box put put by a commercial company, then if you have the money to spend on that on a large scale it won't make a difference if you have to buy the same stuff again on HD because you habve the money in the first place,"

Not necessarily true; I have burned a ton of cash on buying standard DVD titles, and that doesnt proportionally mean that Im gonna have the money to do this with HD DVD --- THATS what the point is; I will in no way be able to financially justify re-BUYING ALL my DVDs for HD DVD, ON TOP OF THAT, add NEW TITLES that come out......its simply financially impossible, whether you believe that or not.

SlumpBuster
07-18-2005, 02:51 PM
I don't know Lexmark, I think you've actually proposed a pretty good question. But I think the answer may be decidedly non-technical and more reliant upon market forces. DVD achieved historic market penetration in large parts to the players becoming a loss leader for many companies. i.e. Sony says "here buy our $79.00 DVD player that actually costs us $85.00 to produce and distribute." Now buy the new TV that you need that has a pretty good profit margin. Then the HTiB that has an even better margin. And finally, buy the DVD with a 60% profit margin. Sony owns the whole chain. It's called vertical integration and it works great. Problem is that your not going to convince the vast majority of consumers to do it twice in a period of less than ten years. The world doesn't change as fast as Sony, JVC, and Toshiba would have us believe. Remember, you still can't even get a Volkswagen with an indash CD player, and my mom will simply never understand why Pan and Scan sucks. Couple that with the fact that the mainstream usually moves towards the lower fidelity format (i.e. LPs to cassettes, CDs to MP3) and I don't see a new format breaking out to replace DVD anytime soon.

So to answer your question, I'd keep buying. Especially if you get into more and more obsure stuff that simply may never make it onto new formats.

Lexmark3200
07-18-2005, 02:56 PM
"I don't know Lexmark, I think you've actually proposed a pretty good question."

Thank you, slump......I thought I did, too.....

"Remember, you still can't even get a Volkswagen with an indash CD player"

You cant? My friend has a Jetta with one.........

"Couple that with the fact that the mainstream usually moves towards the lower fidelity format (i.e. LPs to cassettes, CDs to MP3)"

You call that going to the "lower fidelity format"?

"So to answer your question, I'd keep buying. Especially if you get into more and more obsure stuff that simply may never make it onto new formats."

Thank you.

Lexmark3200
07-18-2005, 03:26 PM
"I can rent it and then tough it, feel it, rub it, fast forward it, pause it, whatever, for about a $1 a day."

STILL COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY DIFFERENT from the experience a collector and hobbyist receives by OWNING the discs rather than renting them, even if you can feel and rub it (now THAT sounds naughty.......)

Like I said, hop on Home Theater Forum.com and look under their FILMS ON DVD threads......you'll see the difference Im talking about.

"You have to remember, not all people have to own something to enjoy it"

Right, and Im not saying they do; Im simply asking if other COLLECTORS of cinema media who ENJOY the hobby of collecting feel that their collections are going to be obsolete with the advent of High Def DVD.

"and not all people can or choose to heavily invest in formats that will change every decade or so."

THATS EXACTLY what I am worried about------that while I can afford, for the time being, adding to my 2,000 title collection little by little as I do, Im not going to be able to afford to REPLACE ALL THOSE titles with another format; Im trying to ascertain if the jump from DVD to HD DVD will be like that of VHS to DVD.....

"However, it just seem somewhat pointless to invest in something everyone knows will be a obsolete format in the next several years."

And thats ANOTHER point I was trying to have addressed ---- if people THINK DVD will be COMPLETELY and UTTERLY obsolete, which others are saying will not really happen, depending on who you talk to or ask ---- some on another site swore to me that HD DVD will not REPLACE our DVD collections, but just ADD to them, ESPECIALLY if the machines are backwards compatible.....

"And, the people who have huge DVD libraries now, will change and begin their new quest to build a library of the newest format. And then, in about 10 more years, you will be asking the same question."

Ahhhhhhhh.....but WILL they? Or will HD DVD simply AUGMENT a standard DVD collection?

"Again, you seemed to have asked a question that only you can answer. "

And again, I disagree with you here because even Slump Buster, in another thread, admitted that I "bring up a very good question here....." It seems others are thinking about this too.

"No one else can tell you how to spend your money. Who cares what others think."

I do. But you're missing the point regarding trying to get OPINIONS from people on whether or not this new format will MAKE our current DVD libraries obsolete and will MAKE us start over again......

JSE
07-18-2005, 03:36 PM
"There is just something about having a DVD at your touch, at your control that is appealing to me."

.....and THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT DVD COLLECTING IS ALL ABOUT, in a nutshell.....you summed it up yourself perfectly, Terrence......what people who DONT collect recorded cinema media dont understand is that there is something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT about watching a piece of cinema on cable and watching it out of YOUR OWN DVD collection, where you can pause, skip, adjust Dolby Digital and DTS sound algorithms......there is something MUCH MUCH different about having and touching pre-recorded media in a collection than simply "catching it" on TV..............


I can rent it and then tough it, feel it, rub it, fast forward it, pause it, whatever, for about a $1 a day. You have to remember, not all people have to own something to enjoy it and not all people can or choose to heavily invest in formats that will change every decade or so. The bulk of my "hobby" money goes to photography equipment. I am afraid to add it up. It's easily more than my car. But, I make money at it so I see a return, although small. Different strokes for different folks. However, it just seem somewhat pointless to invest in something everyone knows will be a obsolete format in the next several years. I guess it's the smokem while you gottem train of thought. It's not wrong or right. It just depends on the individual. Are they willing to invest moneyin the format. One thing is for sure though, the format will change. Change is certain. And, the people who have huge DVD libraries now, will change and begin their new quest to build a library of the newest format. And then, in about 10 more years, you will be asking the same question. I

Again, you seemed to have asked a question that only you can answer. No one else can tell you how to spend your money. Who cares what others think. If it makes you happy, so be it. I just bought a $4k lens a few months ago. My wife, thinks I am crazy but she understands it makes me happy.

JSE
07-18-2005, 04:24 PM
The only thing guaranteed is that DVD "WILL" be obsolete some day. Will HD DVD takes it's place? Who knows and it really does not matter. Another format will replace HD DVD at some point, if HD DVD even gets off the ground. Technology is advancing faster than you can blink an eye. To think that DVD will be around forever is just not reasonable.

I know I am not your target audience on this, but it's a public forum. By limiting your responses to other fanatics only, is just looking for affirmation and comfort. Your hoping someone else is in the boat with you. Again, who cares what others think. If your happy with your collection, then fine. When a newer format comes out, adopt it from this point foward and replace your favorites. It will happen. Trust me.

No one can tell you HD DVD will replace DVD because no on knows for sure. Your asking an impossible question. Seems to be a common occurence with you. If all these people on these other great sites are debating it, maybe you can find an answer there. Although, I doubt you will get a concrete answer because there is no concrete answer. And if there was, you would have already found it on the other fanatic sites and would have no need to ask it here. It's OK for there not to be an answer. Sometimes you just have to ride it out and see what happens.

PAT.P
07-18-2005, 04:29 PM
I wont be in a rush to replace my DVD movies,got 4 dvd player and still have 2 VCR for my VHS movies.I rather wait and see what all the rave about and wait until price drop .As long that I have extra DVD players I dont care .The grass aint always greener on the other side and dont have to keep up with the rest of the crowd.Im satisfy as is the way DVD is played.Rather have a great sound system than a better DVD player.Pat.P.

Woochifer
07-18-2005, 06:46 PM
The only thing guaranteed is that DVD "WILL" be obsolete some day. Will HD DVD takes it's place? Who knows and it really does not matter. Another format will replace HD DVD at some point, if HD DVD even gets off the ground. Technology is advancing faster than you can blink an eye. To think that DVD will be around forever is just not reasonable.

I know I am not your target audience on this, but it's a public forum. By limiting your responses to other fanatics only, is just looking for affirmation and comfort. Your hoping someone else is in the boat with you. Again, who cares what others think. If your happy with your collection, then fine. When a newer format comes out, adopt it from this point foward and replace your favorites. It will happen. Trust me.

No one can tell you HD DVD will replace DVD because no on knows for sure. Your asking an impossible question. Seems to be a common occurence with you. If all these people on these other great sites are debating it, maybe you can find an asnwer there. Although, I doubt you will get a concrete answer becasue there is no concrete answer. And if there was, you would have already found it on the other fanatic sites and would have no need to ask it here. It's OK for there not to be an answer. Sometimes you just have to ride it out and see what happens.

I think you got it right. The question is not only impossible, but way premature as well, given that the hardware specs have not even been finalized yet. Plus, negotiations are still ongoing to come out with a unified HD disc format that will avoid a format war. If a unified HD disc format gets created, then by accounts I've read that will delay the introduction of the HD disc until at least the end of next year, but give the format a much better shot to succeed in the market. Also, the first 1080p HDTVs have only now gotten introduced, so that puts added pressure for the HD discs to support 1080p.

A lot of things need to happen before we even speculate whether or not HD-DVD, Blu-ray, or some unified HD disc format will tread water in the market. For starters, we have to see some actual production titles and players, and get an actual look at what benefit they provide before we figure out whether or not people will see enough benefit to warrant upgrading their DVD collections.

Keep in mind that for the first two years or so of the DVD, there was still uncertainty as to whether it would survive. Several studios (Paramount, Fox, and Disney in particular) had not fully committed to the DVD format, and instead threw their initial support behind the competing DivX format, the pay-per-view disc format jointly created and marketed by Circuit City (rather than owning a title, you would pay into a debit account everytime you played a movie). It wasn't until DivX failed that all of the studios fell solidly behind the DVD, and started releasing titles in earnest. Once that happened and prices started going down, then DVD player sales took off.

With a potential HD-DVD/Blu-ray format war, that makes the startup for those formats all the more uncertain, given that the studios have divided right down the middle on which format they will support. Until somebody creates a universal player or one format definitively wins out over the other, upgrading someone's entire DVD library would require buying two separate players. With expected prices at about $1,000 for the first production players, I doubt you'll find too many takers for quite a while. Add the possibility that HD-DVD/Blu-ray will, in the name of copy protection, limit the video resolution of the analog component video outputs to 480p, and you have the makings of a market failure similar to SACD/DVD-A.

The same question could've been posed with SACD and DVD-A -- do you plan to upgrade your CD collection? Given the higher resolution and multichannel sound, the simple answer would be yes, but the reality is there aren't enough titles available in those formats to replace even a small percentage of the CDs out there. Who would've known how badly the format launch would get botched, and how badly the format war and inane copy protection restrictions would impede the growth of the formats to the point that the major labels have now all but abandoned the formats?

markw
07-19-2005, 03:51 AM
The main questions you should be asking yourself is "Are YOU going to replave your DVD's with the newer versions."

Don't bother answering. Any more on this and you will have definitely crossed over into hte pure troll territory. Up to now, you've been on the border, tauntingly putting your toe over the line.

Tarheel_
07-19-2005, 04:23 AM
preparation of the new format. Back in October 04, Blockbuster was paying $8 per dvd with no limit. So, i took back over $300 dollars worth of dvds. THey gave me a credit, which i used to buy/order my favorites i need to keep until the new format....like Star Wars boxed set, LOTR SEs, etc.

Now, they only give $3-5 so your better off keeping them unless you never watch a certain flick. I'm down to around 50, which is a good number i think.

Lexmark3200
07-19-2005, 08:49 AM
I wont be in a rush to replace my DVD movies,got 4 dvd player and still have 2 VCR for my VHS movies.I rather wait and see what all the rave about and wait until price drop .As long that I have extra DVD players I dont care .The grass aint always greener on the other side and dont have to keep up with the rest of the crowd.Im satisfy as is the way DVD is played.Rather have a great sound system than a better DVD player.Pat.P.

Thanks for your thoughts Pat.

Lexmark3200
07-19-2005, 08:50 AM
"Don't bother answering. Any more on this and you will have definitely crossed over into hte pure troll territory. Up to now, you've been on the border, tauntingly putting your toe over the line."

LMAO......LMAO.......

Lexmark3200
07-19-2005, 02:44 PM
preparation of the new format. Back in October 04, Blockbuster was paying $8 per dvd with no limit. So, i took back over $300 dollars worth of dvds. THey gave me a credit, which i used to buy/order my favorites i need to keep until the new format....like Star Wars boxed set, LOTR SEs, etc.

Now, they only give $3-5 so your better off keeping them unless you never watch a certain flick. I'm down to around 50, which is a good number i think.

You serious, Tar? You SOLD YOUR DVD collection in preparation of the new format? You are THAT convinced of its pre market success?

steamboy 2
07-19-2005, 03:50 PM
I will not jump ship when HD-DVD comes. this is just like when DVD hit the market in 97 &
LD owners give up the whole collection because of a new format.i still own all my LD's,even the THX star wars( not the 97 version ) & the criterion release of blade runner,
just because a new wave of DVD comes along does not mean dump your collection & buy them over.those who have & will do this must have money to burn.

mike

GMichael
07-20-2005, 07:00 AM
If it catches on I'll get on board then. Even then I won't replace my old collection. I may re-buy a few favorites in the new format. But for the most part I'll be keeping what I have and slowly building up another collection.
Not sure if this will be the format that takes over, but something will some day.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
07-20-2005, 08:25 AM
If it catches on I'll get on board then. Even then I won't replace my old collection. I may re-buy a few favorites in the new format. But for the most part I'll be keeping what I have and slowly building up another collection.
Not sure if this will be the format that takes over, but something will some day.

I have about 1100 DVD's right now, there is no way I am going to replace every one of them. So just like yourself I am going to replace only my most premium ones(if offered), and keep the rest. I did the same thing for my LD collection. Thank God that most all of my premimum LD's do have a DVD counterpart and I was able to sell them to a very happy LD collector.

Lexmark3200
07-20-2005, 08:57 AM
Agreed Terrence and Michael; Terrence, I have more discs than you in MY obssessive collection and I cant see replacing every single one of them, no matter WHAT other members in here say about me not targeting a "primary audience" with this question ---- you guys are getting to the core of the issue. Thank you.

nick4433
07-20-2005, 12:57 PM
Originally Posted by EdwardGein
"I have to admit, I don't get this hobby. Is the purpose to build a film library or just to collect DVD's in boxes with nice artwork? If the purpose is to build a film library, then just get a burner, Nero software, get DVD shrink (decrypts movies) for free online & join Netflix & save a large amount of cash. You can get cases cheaply on Ebay & there are some free web sites that you can download the commercial DVD covers of your movies as well.

If the purpose is just to accumulate a dvd in a box put put by a commercial company, then if you have the money to spend on that on a large scale it won't make a difference if you have to buy the same stuff again on HD because you habve the money in the first place,"


Great. Now everyone knows.

nick4433
07-20-2005, 01:03 PM
For those who know me know me for being an audio fan and not much into the Video side of things. But, for anyone concerned with HD-DVD and Blu Ray(?), etc. I have a feeling that one of these things might happen.
1) An upconverter will converts all present DVDs to that format
2) A HD-DVD or Blu ray fairy will happily buy all our DVD collection and magically present us with the newer formats discs.
3) Manufacturers of DVD players will happily let us "exchange" our DVD players for newer format players.
4) Most of us will have to find a way (which we always do) to smuggle these newer players and the newer discs in the house and give some unthinkable reason to our better halves for the switch.

I am still working on the reason for my brand new 9.1 receiver.

GMichael
07-20-2005, 02:02 PM
For those who know me know me for being an audio fan and not much into the Video side of things. But, for anyone concerned with HD-DVD and Blu Ray(?), etc. I have a feeling that one of these things might happen.
1) An upconverter will converts all present DVDs to that format
2) A HD-DVD or Blu ray fairy will happily buy all our DVD collection and magically present us with the newer formats discs.
3) Manufacturers of DVD players will happily let us "exchange" our DVD players for newer format players.
4) Most of us will have to find a way (which we always do) to smuggle these newer players and the newer discs in the house and give some unthinkable reason to our better halves for the switch.

I am still working on the reason for my brand new 9.1 receiver.

I cast my vote for number 2. Always had a thing for blu fairies. Will she have her own wand or will I have to let her use mine?

Lexmark3200
07-22-2005, 12:39 PM
I will not jump ship when HD-DVD comes. this is just like when DVD hit the market in 97 &
LD owners give up the whole collection because of a new format.i still own all my LD's,even the THX star wars( not the 97 version ) & the criterion release of blade runner,
just because a new wave of DVD comes along does not mean dump your collection & buy them over.those who have & will do this must have money to burn.

mike

Thanks for your thoughts on this, Mike......so, if we dont dump our DVD collections, what do you suggest we do as enthusiats --- simply "add" the titles we want on HD DVD when they arrive and get a backward compatible player?

Lexmark3200
07-22-2005, 12:55 PM
"The only thing guaranteed is that DVD "WILL" be obsolete some day."

Some experts in audio say no; that we have arrived at the definitive medium for the next good century.

"Will HD DVD takes it's place? Who knows and it really does not matter."

Well, it matters to me and people who are investing 100s of thousands of dollars into DVD collections over the years --- whether you see that as mysterious or not, it is a recognized hobby.

"Another format will replace HD DVD at some point, if HD DVD even gets off the ground. Technology is advancing faster than you can blink an eye. To think that DVD will be around forever is just not reasonable."

Well, FOREVER is a subjective term because we're all not even going to live forever.

"I know I am not your target audience on this, but it's a public forum. By limiting your responses to other fanatics only, is just looking for affirmation and comfort."

No, not really if you KNEW inside my HEAD what I am really trying to get at here; I am WELL AWARE that it is a PUBLIC FORUM.....but what is the point of having others who dont share an enthusiasm of this hobby, nor wish to contribute anything relative to the discussion, JOIN IN THIS DISCUSSION then? What is the point of that, just to solidify the fact that this is a public forum? I know it, I got it.

"Your hoping someone else is in the boat with you."

Why do you care so much about this theory even it was true?

"Again, who cares what others think."

Thats YOUR take on it, not mine.....I CARE what others think.

"If your happy with your collection, then fine. When a newer format comes out, adopt it from this point foward and replace your favorites. It will happen. Trust me."

THESE are the kinds of things I was getting at with regard to the POINT of the thread question; if we are going to most likely just ADD to our collections or replace entire collections. Sure Im happy NOW with my collection, but I worry what this new format will bring in terms of earth-shattering quality differences and the need to replace EVERY title in my standard DVD collection, which probably wont be feasible anyway because HD DVD probably wont offer EVERY SINGLE DVD title ever produced anyway.

"No one can tell you HD DVD will replace DVD because no on knows for sure. Your asking an impossible question. Seems to be a common occurence with you."

Its the way you are interpretting the questions; theyre not impossible to answer. Nothing is when you use your mind.

"If all these people on these other great sites are debating it, maybe you can find an answer there."

Just hop on and take a look for yourself-----they ARE continuing to debate it on Home Theater Discussion.com and Home Theater Forum.com as VERY hot topics right now. I just thought I would try the discussion in here, but I guess you feel your input regarding the subject should the final word on it regardless of what other members have to say.

"Although, I doubt you will get a concrete answer because there is no concrete answer. And if there was, you would have already found it on the other fanatic sites and would have no need to ask it here. It's OK for there not to be an answer. Sometimes you just have to ride it out and see what happens."

Thats what DEBATE and DISCUSSION is all about on these other fanatic sites.....they want to DISCUSS this and I see nothing wrong with that at all; perhaps like you said there ISNT a definitve answer, but I can explore the POSSIBILITY of what others may THINK they are going to do with their collections, cant I?

JSE
07-22-2005, 01:25 PM
"The only thing guaranteed is that DVD "WILL" be obsolete some day."

Some experts in audio say no; that we have arrived at the definitive medium for the next good century.

"Will HD DVD takes it's place? Who knows and it really does not matter."

Well, it matters to me and people who are investing 100s of thousands of dollars into DVD collections over the years --- whether you see that as mysterious or not, it is a recognized hobby.

"Another format will replace HD DVD at some point, if HD DVD even gets off the ground. Technology is advancing faster than you can blink an eye. To think that DVD will be around forever is just not reasonable."

Well, FOREVER is a subjective term because we're all not even going to live forever.

"I know I am not your target audience on this, but it's a public forum. By limiting your responses to other fanatics only, is just looking for affirmation and comfort."

No, not really if you KNEW inside my HEAD what I am really trying to get at here; I am WELL AWARE that it is a PUBLIC FORUM.....but what is the point of having others who dont share an enthusiasm of this hobby, nor wish to contribute anything relative to the discussion, JOIN IN THIS DISCUSSION then? What is the point of that, just to solidify the fact that this is a public forum? I know it, I got it.

"Your hoping someone else is in the boat with you."

Why do you care so much about this theory even it was true?

"Again, who cares what others think."

Thats YOUR take on it, not mine.....I CARE what others think.

"If your happy with your collection, then fine. When a newer format comes out, adopt it from this point foward and replace your favorites. It will happen. Trust me."

THESE are the kinds of things I was getting at with regard to the POINT of the thread question; if we are going to most likely just ADD to our collections or replace entire collections. Sure Im happy NOW with my collection, but I worry what this new format will bring in terms of earth-shattering quality differences and the need to replace EVERY title in my standard DVD collection, which probably wont be feasible anyway because HD DVD probably wont offer EVERY SINGLE DVD title ever produced anyway.

"No one can tell you HD DVD will replace DVD because no on knows for sure. Your asking an impossible question. Seems to be a common occurence with you."

Its the way you are interpretting the questions; theyre not impossible to answer. Nothing is when you use your mind.

"If all these people on these other great sites are debating it, maybe you can find an answer there."

Just hop on and take a look for yourself-----they ARE continuing to debate it on Home Theater Discussion.com and Home Theater Forum.com as VERY hot topics right now. I just thought I would try the discussion in here, but I guess you feel your input regarding the subject should the final word on it regardless of what other members have to say.

"Although, I doubt you will get a concrete answer because there is no concrete answer. And if there was, you would have already found it on the other fanatic sites and would have no need to ask it here. It's OK for there not to be an answer. Sometimes you just have to ride it out and see what happens."

Thats what DEBATE and DISCUSSION is all about on these other fanatic sites.....they want to DISCUSS this and I see nothing wrong with that at all; perhaps like you said there ISNT a definitve answer, but I can explore the POSSIBILITY of what others may THINK they are going to do with their collections, cant I?


I think the solution is to start investing it Betamax. I hear it's the next big thing. I'm buying stock!

Lexmark3200
07-22-2005, 01:32 PM
I think the solution is to start investing it Betamax. I hear it's the next big thing. I'm buying stock!

LOL.....it may just be simpler to go backwards like that I think sometimes, I swear........