Tyler Feedback!!!!!!!!!!!! [Archive]

oddeoowphil38

07-08-2005, 11:56 AM

Well people went to Tyler Acoustics today and got to meet Ty. I must say he is one heck of a nice guy. One thing is for sure Ty knows how to build top-notch speakers. All I can say is WOW!!!!!!!!!!! For the very first time I got to listen to a Vifa tweeter. The Freedom F-2's use a 7" aluminum Seas driver with a Vifa tweeter. Talk about clarity and wide dispersion capabilities. The Vifa delivers. One thing that really stood out about the F-2's is the very controlled low frequency extension that characterizes this speaker. I asked Ty what size sub he was using and he informed me that only the F-2's were playing. Depening on your room size I would say for most 2-channel listening a sub will not be required. The tweeter had great extension as well but NEVER seemed to be too forward. Just simply played whatever it was ask to do without adding anything. Ty had a Jolida CD player and a Jolida amp set up in his demo room. It was so kool watching Ty build the X-overs WHILE he was talking to me. I asked him if he could do it in his sleep and not suprisingly he replied "Yes". Ty also answered any question I had not only about his products but "audio" in general. Ty's brother, wife, and of course, his daughter help him with his business. They were all very nice people and I really appreciated the way Ty made me feel welcome. I can not say that the Freedom F-2's are better than the Paradigm Studio 20's because of not being able to do an A/B test. But, I can say the F-2 cabinet is far superior to the Studio series cabinets. Ty is the real deal people. His cabinetry is second to none. Ty also brought is some Linbrook Signature speakers for me to listen to. At 55 lbs. each these are not for the faint at heart. The sound from these speakers is the ABSOLUTE best speakers I have ever heard period. Wow does not even begin to describe the sound of these speakers. The Seas magnesium drivers are a big step up from their aluminum drivers. The Millenium tweeter by far exceeds the Vifa. The Linbrooks were just breath taking. The details I heard were so clear and pure that they honestly did disappear. Lastly, I got to listen to the Taylo Mini Reference as well. The soundstage this little speaker produced was incredible. Definately lacking in the low end but after all it is a 5" Seas Magnesium driver. The Scan Speak tweeter was just as impressive. One thing that stood out immediately was how the Mini presented the soundstage. It was a little bit forward but nothing harsh or bright but kinda cocky like if you know what I mean. Very clear but definatley not laid back so to speak. Once again, the clarity was off the charts and I liked the tweeter better than the Vifa. I listened to my various cd collection--most store bought but a few were recorded in to mp3's. Even the mp3's sounded great on all three speakers I got to demo. My choice of the day was without a doubt the Linbrooks followed my the Mini's. Then, the Freedom F-2's. IMHO, I would say that the F-2's sounded a bit better than from what I remember of the Studio 20's. The F-2's are more refined and extended on the top end as well as more defined and controlled on the low end. I do believe the studio 20's may be a bit more punchier in the upper midbass region but that is about all. But, keep in mind this is basically going from memmory and not an A/B test. However, I do know the Paradigm products very well especially the Studio 20's. Congradulations to Ty, his wife, and his brother for producing top notch products. And the fact he is a very nice guy makes it all the better. Have a good day people.
Phil

N. Abstentia

07-08-2005, 12:40 PM

So what are you gonna buy?

PAT.P

07-08-2005, 12:49 PM

Where the pictures.The way it sounds it was a piture perfect moment.Pat.P

oddeoowphil38

07-08-2005, 01:23 PM

Well, it looks very good for Ty. We are working a deal on a pair of speakers that are much better than the F-2's but not expensive as the Linbrooks. If I had it my way, I would have brought the Linbrooks home with me today. But, like many money is really hard to come by right now. I have a soon to be 17 year old already hinting for "School Chlothes". School starts is a lilttle over 3 weeks for her. And, had to renew tags, liscense, and insurance on my van. Anyways, I am sure you know what I mean. I will take full advantage of Ty's layaway plan and get a set as soon as possible. They are a lot like the Taylo's but Ty said the driver I am getting is no longer made and it is a wee bit smaller. Anyways, it will take me a while to get them but it will be worth it. Not gonna worry too much about a center right now because my preference is on 2-channel listening anyways. My Paradigm center will do an "ok" job and really that is all I need. I will then use my Titans for my rears and be done with it. Later, hope to get an SVS PB10-ISD 10" sub and get rid of my Paradigm. May use the MTX towers in the far rear corners until I sell them. I still like the Studio 20's very much but at $800 a pair I have found something significantly better by all counts and it is hard to not go in that direction. Just wish I could afford the Linbrooks.

oddeoowphil38

07-08-2005, 01:29 PM

Yeah wish I had taken some pics. But I am just not a camera guy. Good idea though I may look in to it next time. I will be going back when I have more time and maybe Ty is not so busy. Shoot, I could stay there all day it was so much fun. Kinda like a kid in a candy store feeling. Maybe i could just move in eh???? LOL! LOL!

drseid

07-08-2005, 04:07 PM

Glad to hear you had a good time at Tyler... I pretty much knew you would, but felt I would let your ears decide...

As an owner of the Linbrook Signatures (although I also own the bass modules for each of them to make up the full 3 way Linbrook Signature System), I of course concur with your praise of those... Believe it or not, they sound *much* better in Linbrook System form (the bass modules are just unbelievable, and they free up the monitor sections from low bass duty for even better sound) ... but I guess at over 5K/pr. and weighing 155 pounds each they should. :-) Still, if you go back, it is definitely worth hearing them just once, not to mention the top-of-the-line Woodmeres.

It really is too bad Ty does not advertise much, I almost feel guilty being one of the few that has had the privalege of hearing his speakers every day. Over the past month, I have let a couple people come over and audition them... Both are now Tyler owners. :-)

I wish you luck with your choice... Also, keep in mind, Ty has a full value trade-up plan, so some day you may indeed be able to get those Linbrooks you crave so much. :-)

As for me, I am saving for those Woodmeres (who knows, maybe in 10 years) ... ;-)

---Dave

oddeoowphil38

07-08-2005, 04:56 PM

drseid

07-09-2005, 02:48 AM

Yeah I had a great time. The F-2's were by all acounts better than the Studio 20's with the 20's maybe being a little better in the tightness of the bass. However, as I forgot to mention in my earlier post the F-2's were playing full range w/o any crossover filterring whatsoever. Perhaps, once X-overed at say 70-80 Hz chances are the F-2's may be a lot tighter. Everytime I have done extensive listening to the Studio 20's they are usually X-overed at 80 Hz. Ty's cabinets are THE best I have seen to date. 1" MDF with a real wood veneer finish---just awesome. Believe you me the cabinets are solid and quite heavy not to mention the drivers aren't paper weights per se. In time I would love to own a set of the Linbrooks---dont need anything else. I am sure what you have is even better but to me the Linbrooks are now my dream speakers period. Have a great evening.
Phil
By the way Phil, did you happen to audition the regular Taylo Reference Monitors (they use a Scanspeak Revelator tweeter and a 7 inch SEAS Magnesium mid-bass)?

I know Ty can substitute the SEAS Millenium for the Revelator if requested at no additional charge (he now calls them Linbrook Reference Monitors in that form)... As they retail new for $1600, they probably are out of your range... But as I alluded to earlier, Ty receives a lot of trade-ins so people can move up in the line... If someone traded in some Taylo Reference Monitors with the Millenium tweeter swap, you may be able to do a deal with Ty on the used ones... These should sound *very* much like the Linbrook Signature Monitors you heard (as they use the same drivers and wiring)... The only difference is they won't go as low, and the soundstage depth may be a smidge less. On the plus side, I think the Taylo/Linbrook Reference Monitors have a wider soundstage, and they are front ported, so they are easier to place...

Just a thought...

---Dave

kexodusc

07-09-2005, 05:44 AM

Hi Tyler Fans:

These really do like like terrific speakers.

If you like the Linbrook line, you should look at the kits by Dr. Joe D'Appolito (the guy who invented the MTM configuration Tyler uses in several of their designs among many other things, a speaker designing guru revered by all in the industry). They were designed for SEAS and are available at Madisound...(some are quite similar to a few Tyler models, coincidence?)

I love the Thor T-line, you haven't heard real accurate bass until you've heard a transmission line.

Compare the Odin at $1400 (less if you build your own cabinets) to the Signature Monitors $3250, less than 1/2 the price for

http://www.madisound.com/thor.html
http://www.madisound.com/odinmk3.html
http://www.madisound.com/orion.html
http://www.madisound.com/froymk3.html

These kits are easily a match for several of the Tyler products, not hard to put together for those willing to try, a great example of the superior value the DIY route can be, even against "factory direct" retailers. Might be something to look into for those who can't justify dropping $4000 on a pair of speakers...
DIY a sub to go with these and don't look back.

oddeoowphil38

07-09-2005, 08:33 AM

No Ty did not have any on hand to demo. But, I did get to demo the refernce Mini's but they had 5" Seas Magnesium drivers and the millenium tweeter. I was blown away by this little speaker. There is no doubt whatsoever that the Seas Magnesium drivers are one of the best out there. I really did like the Vifa tweeters but they are no where as good as the millenium tweeters IMHO. The deal Ty and I have made were not trade ins but he had a few 6.5 " Seas Drivers that are very much like the magnesium drivers but are no longer made. I believe the cabinet was already cut for the millenium tweeter if I remember. And I am saving quite a bit of money. But you are absolutely correct about some of the deals Ty can make. My favorite speaker period is the Linbrooks. One day I hope to own a pair. Thanks for the info. Have a great day.
Phil

oddeoowphil38

07-09-2005, 08:36 AM

Thanks Kex I will check them out. You have already given me several good ideas. I appreciate that very much. Have a good day.
Phil

drseid

07-09-2005, 10:13 AM

Jim Clark

07-09-2005, 10:16 AM

Looking at their demo list it occurs to me that the guy should give me one hell of a deal so he can open a showroom in the Kansas City Area. Somehow I don't think he'd go for it though.

Oh well.

jc

kexodusc

07-09-2005, 11:10 AM

Yep Kex, they are indeed very similar, and I too recommend those kits at Madisound...

The main differences in Tyler's favor are in the internal crossover components and design, the cabinet build quality, size and looks, and the tweaks Ty has made to the overall frequency response...
---Dave

Any "improvement" in the crossover component and build quality aren't necessarily going translate into anything substantial at this point. Tolerances of less than .02% compounded still add up to nothing audible. Madisound's xo components are not cheap, and there is no compromise in that kit for the money. Spend extra for the premium xo parts and they use the same brand components (or better in some cases) and still lie well under 50% of the cost. I wouldn't be surprised if Madisound was their supplier. There's a lot of debate on whether 1" cabinets don't overdamp the speakers too. A well braced .75 cabinet will work just fine for dual 8" woofers or smaller, and these have the 1" baffle anyway. I doubt most of us could tell which cabinet was thicker by listening. Unless you're planning on dropping your speakers a lot the cabinet build quality is moot between these. Looking at the Ty speakers that use the same # of drivers as the Madisounds, and I'm skeptical that they can keep up with Joe D's models.

Biggest difference IMO would be the slight personality differences the two designers put in them, and that's a crapshoot. Some will like one over the other of course.

Tweaking any fr of the drivers can be done on your own anyway, a good reason for mounting you xo's outside the cabinet. Everyone's got different tastes and ears.

I really can't se one of these brands can being much better than the other. Except Tyler offers a few more different models to fit your needs if you aren't up for designing your own. I could see these being anywhere from 98%-110% the performance of the Tyler Acoustic speakers. Invest a few hundred into tweaks and have your cake and eat it too.

The Tyler speakers really do look better though, and some of that cost is for the more exotic veneers. I don't discredit that, if you're going to spend this kind of money on a speaker it SHOULD look as good as you want it too as well. I suspect you'd get a better.

Does Tyler offer a T-line?

oddeoowphil38

07-09-2005, 12:23 PM

Kex Ty told me he did modify the x-over design somewhat and tweeked them to satisfy his requirements. It was very obvious to me Ty knew what he was doing. He doesn't get caught up in the mumbo jumbo per se but rather focuses on what is much more important. That is, over all speaker performance. Ty even explained to me that he prefers 2-channel music listening and does not get too caught up in home theater. He went on to mention that he doesn't even like subwoofers. Ty prefers large tower like speakers that can play the full range of sound. I was kinda shocked really. You know coming from a guy who is in the speaker selling business. Like I said Ty is the real deal. He knows how to build a speaker from the ground up using many high end drivers and crossover components. I have seen first hand the cabinets that Ty produces and I will tell you now it is the best I have seen to date. The kits you speak of I am sure are very very good but Ty does bring more to the table w/o all the overly done technical garble. Personally, I hope to one day own a set of the Linbrook Sigs myself. Who knows what the future holds. Maybe I will win the powerball or something and just go all out. Sure would be nice.
Phil

kexodusc

07-09-2005, 12:49 PM

Kex Ty told me he did modify the x-over design somewhat and tweeked them to satisfy his requirements. It was very obvious to me Ty knew what he was doing. He doesn't get caught up in the mumbo jumbo per se but rather focuses on what is much more important.

I'm not trying to discredit Tyler at all, and I can appreciate why Tyler owners/fans would be a bit defensive, but let me make it clear I'm not saying Tyler is doing anything wrong or worse. For the time and effort involved in building a speaker, I believe Tyler's prices are pretty fair. His speakers cost only double those Seas kits, most comparable speakers I've heard to the Thor cost 4 or 5 times as much. I was just pointing out to the benefit of those who might be looking for a more economical approach that there are comparable kits out there for the willing.

I have little doubt Tyler's offerings will smoke a lot of mass market speakers, when you take a no nonesense, no compromise approach to driver and crossover selection like they do, good things happen.. But what you've just said above describes exactly what every designer at this level does, even amateurs like me do it...You don't think he's the only one who puts hundreds of hours of tweaking into every design, do you? When I built my Vifa/Scan-speak towers (my Vifa woofer is about the equivalent of the Seas in these speakers, the Scan-speak tweeters a step below though until I can afford the Revelator) I spent over 6 months, tried 7 different crossover topologies, and dozens of values of components in each. I have a whole notebook of observations, component values etc. I probably have 1000 miles clocked on my car from the trip to the lab and back. And I'm just a hobbyist, this isn't my job. In some ways I think I might appreciate more the steps taken to make a great speaker. If I was selling mine I'd probably be even fussier.

That said, rest assured D'Appolito would have been just as discriminating, he doesn't put his name on just anything. These are marketed to the DIY-er who knows a thing or two about what to look for in a speaker design, safe to say he couldn't and wouldn't slip something by in those designs. They might sound different but there's no reason to believe one or the other is better.

Ty does bring more to the table w/o all the overly done technical garble.
Phil
More than Joe D? You do of course realize the alignment with crossover topologies Tyler uses were CREATED and published by Joe D'Appolito. That guy really revolutionized speakers. I have no doubt Tyler's speakers are every bit as good as the Seas kit designs, but what "more to the table" does he bring exactly? You and I can't just sit here and say one brings more to the table without discrediting another individual who obviously knows what he's doing.

Anyway, you've finally gone out and listened to these speakers and have an idea what to expect now. Can you tell us a bit more about the speakers he's doing for you?

oddeoowphil38

07-09-2005, 01:50 PM

Kex, I was not even trying to imply Ty brought more to the table than Jo D-App at all. I was referring to the "theorectical" X-over design was somewhat modified to Ty's prefernces. In other words, Ty knows what sound he is looking for and how to achieve his goal. So sorry if you misunderstood what I meant. As far as the speaker he is going to sell me it has a 6.5" Seas driver that is very similar to the 7" Magnesium drivers he uses now. The tweeter I believe is the Seas Millenium Tweer. The cabinets are a lighter color oak. I am getting a good deal because they are very similar to his Taylo Reference Monitors. Either way, it is a good deal. At least, considerably better than than the Paradigm Studio 20's and for not much more money than what the 20's would cost. I know I would be more than happy with them. For now, I am not gonna worry about a center channel speaker. My Paradigm cc-170 will work fine and I will use Titans for rear when watching DVD's. My preference is on 2-channel music listening and not on HT. I will use my sub on occasion for music listening and use it a lot more for HT. I may even look into getting a 2-channel amp down the road. Depends on the money flow. But, one day I may try one of the madisound kits such as the Froy or the Odin. If I do I will have to get an amp because they are both 4ohms. That way, just use my Yammie for pre-amp purposes. I just plan on focusing on 2 channel music listening. I been thinking about moving the MTX towers to the rear and use my Titans and cc-170 for my frontstage. Thus, the front stage would all be voice matched. Then, the speakers I get from Ty I could use solely for 2-channel listening. Chances are my sub will be used for HT in order to get LFE. I thought this may give me more of what I am after. The only other things I have been thinking about is to get rid of my Paradigm sub and go with an SVS PB10-ISD 10" sub or buy a better cd player (burr brown) and a 2 channel amp. My yammie does have the speaker A or speaker B option. I will put the speakers I get from Ty on the B terminals. If my yammie does them justice I may not need an amp. Will just have to see. I know Outlaw Audio has some "mono" amps B-stock for like $230 each. And av123.com has Onix Amps B-stock all the time for only $299. So there are some options. You have any other ideas? let me know.
Phil

drseid

07-09-2005, 02:14 PM

Any "improvement" in the crossover component and build quality aren't necessarily going translate into anything substantial at this point. Tolerances of less than .02% compounded still add up to nothing audible. Madisound's xo components are not cheap, and there is no compromise in that kit for the money. Spend extra for the premium xo parts and they use the same brand components (or better in some cases) and still lie well under 50% of the cost. I wouldn't be surprised if Madisound was their supplier. There's a lot of debate on whether 1" cabinets don't overdamp the speakers too. A well braced .75 cabinet will work just fine for dual 8" woofers or smaller, and these have the 1" baffle anyway. I doubt most of us could tell which cabinet was thicker by listening. Unless you're planning on dropping your speakers a lot the cabinet build quality is moot between these. Looking at the Ty speakers that use the same # of drivers as the Madisounds, and I'm skeptical that they can keep up with Joe D's models.

Biggest difference IMO would be the slight personality differences the two designers put in them, and that's a crapshoot. Some will like one over the other of course.

Tweaking any fr of the drivers can be done on your own anyway, a good reason for mounting you xo's outside the cabinet. Everyone's got different tastes and ears.

I really can't se one of these brands can being much better than the other. Except Tyler offers a few more different models to fit your needs if you aren't up for designing your own. I could see these being anywhere from 98%-110% the performance of the Tyler Acoustic speakers. Invest a few hundred into tweaks and have your cake and eat it too.

The Tyler speakers really do look better though, and some of that cost is for the more exotic veneers. I don't discredit that, if you're going to spend this kind of money on a speaker it SHOULD look as good as you want it too as well. I suspect you'd get a better.

Does Tyler offer a T-line?

In answer to your last question about a T-Line... No, not to the best of my knowledge yet...

As for the rest, I don't think I am going to convince you in an email. :-)

I stand by my complete statement about the Odins... I have heard them, and I compared them to the Linbrook Signatures and the Tylers were superior to my ears... Again, you may disagree, but as you have not heard the Tylers, I would argue you really *should* before making too many assumptions as to how they compare... You are welcome at my house anytime to do so if you come near Washington, DC. :-)

Just in case you think I have a bias against DIY, I actually have built speakers before... Just as an example, I built my Dad his fronts using some great top-of-the-line Focal drivers (sadly not sold DIY anymore) and finished them in real Ebony... I truly enjoyed the project, and plan on continuing the DIY quest for sound. My point though is that I am firmly in the camp that says "If you can build it for less and get the same or better performance, than do so." The problem is in the case of the Tylers, I can't to my chagrin... Maybe you, or some others could.

Keep in mind, all of this said, 90% of the Tyler's performance is nothing to take as an insult to Joe D'appolito... The speakers I built were more like 50% of the Linbrooks, and I thought them rather good at the time (and they were not that much less expensive than the Odins)... I actually was paying the Odin's a great compliment, as for the price they can't be beat in my mind. Joe *does* know how to design a brilliant speaker... I would just argue that so does Ty. :-)

---Dave

drseid

07-09-2005, 02:22 PM

I know Outlaw Audio has some "mono" amps B-stock for like $230 each.

Just one word of warning for these with the Tylers... I tried the Outlaw Monoblocks out (coupled with an Outlaw Pre/Pro), and I had to return all of it, as they did not match well with the Tylers... Your experience may differ of course, but I just thought I should let you know...

---Dave

oddeoowphil38

07-09-2005, 03:38 PM

kexodusc

07-09-2005, 04:01 PM

Kex, I was not even trying to imply Ty brought more to the table than Jo D-App at all. I was referring to the "theorectical" X-over design was somewhat modified to Ty's prefernces.

This is good, and what separates speakers like Tyler Acoustics from more general, mass produces speakers. "theoretical" xo designs assume each speaker behaves like a resistor of fixed value (usually 8 ohms) at the xo, point, most speakers vary significantly across their range though, so mods are almost always necessary. Shouldn't say necessary, stock, theoretical xo's can sound really good, but to be optimized requires a bit more work.

Your Paradigm will do fine for awhile, if you're like me you'll notice that for movies, having mismatching speakers isn't too big of a deal. For multichannel audio it is, but for movies, you don't really notice. Sounds like you're getting a heck of a speaker. Be sure to post us some pics when you finally get it!!!

kexodusc

07-09-2005, 04:14 PM

I stand by my complete statement about the Odins... I have heard them, and I compared them to the Linbrook Signatures and the Tylers were superior to my ears... Again, you may disagree, but as you have not heard the Tylers, I would argue you really *should* before making too many assumptions as to how they compare... You are welcome at my house anytime to do so if you come near Washington, DC. :-)

I could be real cheap here and say that unless you've compared both models in the same room, in the same physical location at the same time on the same equipment, that any comparison is absolutely and perfectly invalid, but I won't :D. I don't dispute that you prefer your speakers, I suspect many others would as well.. But I'm sure you can agree that opinions differ...and some might sway the other way...at any rate, at 1/2 the price for 95% of the performance my suggestion to those who couldn't justify the Linbrooks to consider these as an option is still a good one, IMO.

Those who know me know I am biased towards sealed cabinets, dual chamber reflex, or transmission line speakers. Simple reflex speakers are simply sacrifice too much to group delay, decreased transient response, and overall sound quality for a few extra Hz IMO. I say this as I'm working on 2 ported speaker designs, so take that for what it's worth. :D

DIY isn't for everyone...no doubt about it...throw in costs for time, tools, and studying, and it easy to see why it might not be a good option, even economically. For people like me that have woodworking tools, know a bit about electronics, and need a hobby, it's a good payoff.

The other, often overlooked benefit of buying speakers like Tyler Acoustics, is that resale value can be much higher. And Tyler seems to be among the few that offer an exchange/upgrade program. Every DIY speaker I've sold, was for 50% or less of what I paid for it, simply because only other DIY ers have the knowledge to appreciate the value
of the speakers. I found out the hard way you usually get more stripping the speaker down and selling it as parts. When I sold my Paradigm Studio 20's and CC though, I managed to get about 60% of what I paid for them, and managed to buy enough components and material for 7 superior speakers and a sub. The Studio 40's I keep as $1000 reference for my designs.

I'm stuck in Canada these days, but if anyone in NB, Canada has any Tyler speakers, I'd love to hear them. These are even recommended on some DIY boards, high praise indeed considering the fussy bunch these guys are!

oddeoowphil38

07-09-2005, 04:46 PM

Yeah I think I am getting a good deal. Ty assured me the speakers i am getting are a significant step up from the Freedom F-2's. As I said earlier, IMHO the F-2's are slightly better over all than the Paradigm Studio 20's. As long as i get general home theater effect from my speakers I am happy. I think using the Titans for fronts, and the cc-170 as my center will better assure general ht effect due to the voice matching. The MTX towers will do fine as rears. Now, as far a music goes I do not listen to multichannel music. I much more prefer 2-channel. At times, i may use my Paradigm sub and at others I may not. However, when watching movies I will always use my sub. After I get my speakers from TY I plan on getting a better cd player with the Burr Brown DAC's. I will also know if my yammie is going to give me enough oomph for my new speakers. If not then I will get an amp just to power my new speakers. I have gotten interested in tube amps but most are so darn expensive. Finally, if all goes well then my next step up will be to buy a SVS PB10-ISD 10" sub and get rid of my Paradigm sub. If I ever sell my MTX towers I will get a pair of Paradigm Atoms or another pair of Titans for the rears and be done with it. Oh well, as I am sure you already know so many things happen over time that causes us to make adjustments in our plans. Eventually, I still think I may try the AR.com kit and see what I can do on my own. If I am successful then I may try a Froy or Odin kit. Who knows. But, thanks for your help. I will see what I can do about taking some pics when I get my speakers.
Phil

drseid

07-10-2005, 02:13 AM

I could be real cheap here and say that unless you've compared both models in the same room, in the same physical location at the same time on the same equipment, that any comparison is absolutely and perfectly invalid, but I won't :D. I don't dispute that you prefer your speakers, I suspect many others would as well.. But I'm sure you can agree that opinions differ...and some might sway the other way...at any rate, at 1/2 the price for 95% of the performance my suggestion to those who couldn't justify the Linbrooks to consider these as an option is still a good one, IMO.

Those who know me know I am biased towards sealed cabinets, dual chamber reflex, or transmission line speakers. Simple reflex speakers are simply sacrifice too much to group delay, decreased transient response, and overall sound quality for a few extra Hz IMO. I say this as I'm working on 2 ported speaker designs, so take that for what it's worth. :D

Yes, I have heard that one before about the same time, same room, same equipment... ;-)

As for preferences, your point is well-taken. I never meant to imply everyone would draw the same conclusions as me... I was just stating my own opinion based on my experience with the two speakers.

As for your Odin recommendation, I reiterate that I feel it is a good one for exactly the reason you stated, except I would switch 95 to 90 percent. ;-) The bottom line is that the amount of buyers willing to pay 3K for any pair of speakers (no matter what they are) is rather sparse. The Odins, at their much lower price point give us all hope.

As for speaker design... that is catagory in and of itself. :-)

As a general rule, I agree that ceterus parabus, a sealed design would be my choice over a ported one too (I don't have a lot of experience with T-lines, so I can't comment on those).

I have had to really reevaluate my biases on a number of things though after hearing the Tyler speakers (in particular my Linbrook System floorstanders)... These puppies have a *huge* rear port in the rather deep and bulky bass module chamber (these speakers are very large in general), not to mention the smaller rear port for the Linbrook Monitor section. I would expect this to deteriorate the sound with respect primarily to the low bass... I'll be darned if I notice any deterioration though. I don't know how Ty did it, but on these, the bass is *super* tight, "fast," and goes quite low as well (nearly flat to 20hz in my room). Maybe a sealed design with an even *larger* enclosure to provide as low a bass extension, compensating for the lack of a port could achieve a better result with respect to tightness and transients (the laws of physics have obviously not changed here or anywhere else), but I confess I would be hard pressed to be able to tell the difference. I guess once you get to certain levels of performance, the differences get harder and harder to notice even if they are there.

Good luck with your latest projects Kex... By the way, a tip for a great DIY monitor design is the Ellis 1801B (www.ellisaudio.com)... That is a very nice mini-monitor using a Hiquphon OW1 (?) tweeter and a SEAS Excel Magnesium 7 inch mid-bass driver. Someday I may give that one a shot at building for fun for use in my office.

Regards,

---Dave

drseid

07-10-2005, 02:30 AM

Thanks Dave I will keep that in mind. Maybe the Onix would do much better. Ty was usung a Jolida JD1000A which I think is 100X2 and a Jolida JD100A cd player. The remote for the cd player had to weigh at least if not more than 1 lb. Thats a lot for a remote. I did notice the Jolida amp sure got hot but never waivered at all. I spent a good while demoing the speakers. The amp just kept playing w/o any problems. Jolida is nice equipment. I will check them out as well. Knowing my luck, Jolida will be expensive as well. Thanks for your help.
Phil
Jolida I have heard with many of the Tyler speakers, and it does indeed produce good results... As tube gear goes, Jolida is about as affordable as it gets, BTW.

Onyx I have heard, but not on Tylers... I do know that the elctronics sound quite nice in general, and provide excellent value...

Another value based recommendation I have used (and still do for my rears) is Rotel (although this is solid state). Not pricey relatively speaking, and powers the Tylers quite well until you get to the Linbrook System and Woodmere models (that in my opinion are best powered by very expensive CODA)... For the speakers you are considering Rotel would be a good fit, IMO.

---Dave