An Issue Directed Specifically Toward ONKYO Receiver Owners.....

[Lexmark3200]

If anyone on the board owns an Onkyo home theater receiver, I was wondering if you are experiencing the same "volume" issues I am with my TX-SR600 model....although the "specs" say this thing puts out 80 watts x 6 (I'm running it in five channel mode, plus a sub) and although I have also been told by reliable audiophiles (some on here) that Onkyo is famous for underrating their watts on their products, it still seems that, in my listening room in which this receiver is installed, I need to bring the volume up to "50" on the volume display or beyond to get a DVD soundtrack REALLY going; this is all depedent, of course, on how well the DVD was mastered and what kind of soundtrack it is --- DTS soundtracks always sound louder in my system than Dolby Digital ones --- but for the most part, on standard Dolby Digital-encoded surround mixes, I need to bring the volume on my Onkyo's display screen to the "50" mark and beyond to get LOUD audio.....does this seem normal for anyone else running an Onkyo receiver?

Another interesting note is that while according to the manual, this receiver is supposed to go up to "99" as maximum volume output on the display, but in reality, this receiver goes nowhere near "99" as the max number.....it is much lower than that before the display reads "MAX"; I have been told by others on another home theater oriented board not to worry about this because even with all system settings on ZERO (0), the receiver should STILL not be able to reach "99" in reality because at that point it should be nothing but distortion anyway ---- I was told this is much like a car's speedometer, which may read 140 as top MPH, but the car wont go that fast ---- can this be? I am worried that as I get higher than "50" on the volume display to get "satisfyingly loud output," I am too quickly approaching that maximum cutoff of the amplifier ---- should I be worrying about this or no?

Id like to hear from some other Onkyo receiver owners if, in general, they need to bring their volume levels up to beyond "50" (when its set on the ABSOLUTE volume scale) in order to get satisfying power out of their units......Im wondering if this is just an Onkyo thing....

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide.

[kexodusc]

Hi Lex, I hate to chim in since it's been years since I had an Onkyo, but I think you're okay.

Some of the older Onkyo's use to be under rated, but a lot of the newer ones are over rated....the TX-SR501 was rated at 65 X 6 and only managed to put out 47 watts/channel with 5 channels driven, less with 6. I have some S&V magazine reviews that aren't as favourable for some even newer models. This isn't them being cheap though, most a/v receiver will see their max output decrease as you add channels. Whenever you see a rating such as 60 X 5 watts withouth the qualification "all channels driven", you can assume this is just what each channel is capable of delivering if it was the only channel operating.

That said, the difference between 47 and 65 watts isn't a whole lot.

The volume knob is not a great indication of power output. A lot depends on the strenght of the input signal as well. I don't know who told you that the receiver would be delivering distortion at 99, that's not necessarily true. Even at the max position on the volume knob, the receiver isn't necessarily delivering it's maximum power. Sounds like Onkyo has a limiting mechanism that prevents you from exceeding the "max" position on the volume knob.

This scenario is one of the reasons I'm glad more companies are switching to the -dB way of displaying volume, it can give you a better indication of how much headroom you have left.

If you have an SPL meter, it's worth determing how loud you are listening to your movies at. From here you can use some conservative math to get a safe estimation of how much more you dare turn the receiver up. A lot of volume pots take an aweful lot of movement to generate the first few dB's of volume, and then not much more movement will crank the volume to unbearable limits. Some behave in the opposite manner.

Your speakers have reasonably high sensitivity around 89 dB IIRC. That means at 1 watt those things should be movie theater loud at a distance of 1 meter/3 feet. Grab an SPL meter, and drive only one channel with a good, loud recording, and see how loud you're getting at "50" on your display. Then you can proceed to turn it up and see how much headroom you have left. As always, follow markw's first rule of audio: "if something starts to sound bad, turn it down".

If you find you can't get to 90 dB much louder than 90 dB on your receiver, then I'd be a bit more concerned. But I'm confident you won't have a problem.

[Lexmark3200]

Hi Lex, I hate to chim in since it's been years since I had an Onkyo, but I think you're okay.

Some of the older Onkyo's use to be under rated, but a lot of the newer ones are over rated....the TX-SR501 was rated at 65 X 6 and only managed to put out 47 watts/channel with 5 channels driven, less with 6. I have some S&V magazine reviews that aren't as favourable for some even newer models. This isn't them being cheap though, most a/v receiver will see their max output decrease as you add channels. Whenever you see a rating such as 60 X 5 watts withouth the qualification "all channels driven", you can assume this is just what each channel is capable of delivering if it was the only channel operating.

That said, the difference between 47 and 65 watts isn't a whole lot.

The volume knob is not a great indication of power output. A lot depends on the strenght of the input signal as well. I don't know who told you that the receiver would be delivering distortion at 99, that's not necessarily true. Even at the max position on the volume knob, the receiver isn't necessarily delivering it's maximum power. Sounds like Onkyo has a limiting mechanism that prevents you from exceeding the "max" position on the volume knob.

This scenario is one of the reasons I'm glad more companies are switching to the -dB way of displaying volume, it can give you a better indication of how much headroom you have left.

If you have an SPL meter, it's worth determing how loud you are listening to your movies at. From here you can use some conservative math to get a safe estimation of how much more you dare turn the receiver up. A lot of volume pots take an aweful lot of movement to generate the first few dB's of volume, and then not much more movement will crank the volume to unbearable limits. Some behave in the opposite manner.

Your speakers have reasonably high sensitivity around 89 dB IIRC. That means at 1 watt those things should be movie theater loud at a distance of 1 meter/3 feet. Grab an SPL meter, and drive only one channel with a good, loud recording, and see how loud you're getting at "50" on your display. Then you can proceed to turn it up and see how much headroom you have left. As always, follow markw's first rule of audio: "if something starts to sound bad, turn it down".

If you find you can't get to 90 dB much louder than 90 dB on your receiver, then I'd be a bit more concerned. But I'm confident you won't have a problem.

Thank you VERY much, Kexo, for your input.....

Are there any other current Onkyo owners out there who can relate to the volume DISPLAY issue I am talking about, where they feel, in general, they need to bring that number to "50" or above to get DVD soundtracks really going? Im just trying to ascertain if this is just an Onkyo design characteristic in terms of what it takes to get power out of their amps.....

Kexo, the source input, which is my Pansonic DVD player, must be giving maximum gain output because I have Onkyo's "IntelliVolume" input control for the DVD player maxed out at "+12 dB", meaning the DVD player is giving full signal strength to the receiver......so Im wondering why, on most Dolby Digital soundtracks, I need to bring the volume display up to the number "50" just to get "immersed" in the soundtrack ---- but I AM dealing with a massive room, so this may be an issue, too.....the room may be too big for the receiver's ratings.

I was told this TX-SR600 is actually underrated in terms of power, but you could be right that its the opposite.

[kexodusc]

Like I said, the under-rating/over-rating of your receiver is pretty much moot, the difference in real measured power isn't terribly substantial. How much more are you able to increase the volume on your receiver?

How big is your room and how far back are you? My room is 20' X 24', I have an RX-V1400 and a few power amps, I sit about 10 feet from the speakers and I need the extra output to really get things going when all 7 channels are being driven. For 2-channel, the receiver would do fine I suspect.

[Lexmark3200]

"Like I said, the under-rating/over-rating of your receiver is pretty much moot, the difference in real measured power isn't terribly substantial. How much more are you able to increase the volume on your receiver?"

Well, if I'm beyond "50" on the display, the receiver seems to top off somewhere in the mid to high "70"s; I did not confirm this with audio --- my cousin was playing with the volume knob on the receiver one day and was just curious as to how loud the thing could go, but with no source playing, and the display read MAX way under "99".......

"How big is your room and how far back are you?"

The sweet spot on the couch is 15 FEET from the front soundstage --- that is, from the center, mains and TV set. The in-ceiling surrounds are 9 FEET above the listener's head down to the sweet spot........

[Glen B]

I have an Onkyo TX-DS696 HT receiver (100W x 5) which I believe is one of the models supposed to be overrated. My room is 16' x 24.' Main speakers are Paradigm Monitor series. In actual use, this receiver is more than adequate to the task. At the loudest levels I am willing to tolerate, it plays without any hint of strain.

[kexodusc]

"Like I said, the under-rating/over-rating of your receiver is pretty much moot, the difference in real measured power isn't terribly substantial. How much more are you able to increase the volume on your receiver?"

Well, if I'm beyond "50" on the display, the receiver seems to top off somewhere in the mid to high "70"s; I did not confirm this with audio --- my cousin was playing with the volume knob on the receiver one day and was just curious as to how loud the thing could go, but with no source playing, and the display read MAX way under "99".......

"How big is your room and how far back are you?"

The sweet spot on the couch is 15 FEET from the front soundstage --- that is, from the center, mains and TV set. The in-ceiling surrounds are 9 FEET above the listener's head down to the sweet spot........

Well, you've got a lot of room to fill with sound, so apparent loudness is going to be down quite a bit. Still, I wouldn't be afraid to turn the system up. Your results don't sound troublesome to me.
A lot of receivers these days have those digital display units represent dB increments. Not sure if your Onkyo does this, but if you can play to 70 "units" on the display, this could represent an aweful lot of power remaining above the arbitrary 50 unit point you're at.

My Yammie displays up to +15 dB or so. To get 80 dB in my room I need to have it at about the -15 dB position. There's 30 points left on my volume dial, but at the postion of -15 dB, I'm only using about left. .25 watts per channel or so. I think the volume knob starts at around -78 dB., so the first 60 display units don't get far.

Hopefully some other Onkyo users will chime in to confirm my suspicions that you've got lots of juice left in the receiver before hitting anywhere near max. And as I said, even with the volume at max, and the input voltage at max, it doesn't mean the receiver will output it's maximum power.

[N. Abstentia]

The numbers on the display mean nothing. They are just for reference. If you like the sound at '50' then the next time you sit down you know to dial it to 50 and you know what to expect. The number has nothing to do with the number of watts the receiver is putting out. If you turn it up to where you can barely stand it you're probably hearing 25 watts at the most.

But to answer your question, I do most of my 'loud' listening with my Onkyo's dial at 83, which is labeled 'reference'. Keep in mind I use external amplifiation and not the recievers amp so I can adjust the amp on down the line.

[nightflier]

I used to have an Onkyo TX-SR601 that was incredibly loud. With the dial at 50% the volume was enough to send the neighbors over to complain (I live in a detached house). From your comments it sounds like you are between 50 and 70% of the totla volume. That should be far too loud for comfortable listening (unless you are going deaf).

You might also want to take another look at your speakers. You're using a Polk bookshelf speaker for the center, right (RTi38)? So if what you aren't hearing is the voices, then that may be the problem. Polk recommends the CSi245 for the center in that setup, I believe.

That said, I also remember that in the setup menu of my TX-SR601 there were two scale settings for volume which were off by 30 (?) units from each other. If you have this set different from the default, then this may be why you can't reach 99.

[Lexmark3200]

"Well, you've got a lot of room to fill with sound, so apparent loudness is going to be down quite a bit. Still, I wouldn't be afraid to turn the system up. Your results don't sound troublesome to me."

So, you're saying dont "be afraid" to go into the high-50's on the display or maybe above?

"A lot of receivers these days have those digital display units represent dB increments. Not sure if your Onkyo does this, but if you can play to 70 "units" on the display, this could represent an aweful lot of power remaining above the arbitrary 50 unit point you're at."

Yes, this receiver has a way of switching over to the dB increments, but I havent figured out how; I keep it on absolute number scale, which I find needs more amplification that reaching this "50" mark --- but as you said, perhaps there is a lot more audio headroom to deal with there between 50 and the absolute "70" or so maximum number......do you honestly feel there is plenty of power left between those two numbers if I keep turning the volume up?

"My Yammie displays up to +15 dB or so. To get 80 dB in my room I need to have it at about the -15 dB position. There's 30 points left on my volume dial, but at the postion of -15 dB, I'm only using about left. .25 watts per channel or so. I think the volume knob starts at around -78 dB., so the first 60 display units don't get far."

So are you saying in the case of my Onkyo, this could relate to not getting much audio below this "50" mark on the display?

"Hopefully some other Onkyo users will chime in to confirm my suspicions that you've got lots of juice left in the receiver before hitting anywhere near max. And as I said, even with the volume at max, and the input voltage at max, it doesn't mean the receiver will output it's maximum power"

But why is this? And thank you for your continued assistance.

[Lexmark3200]

"The numbers on the display mean nothing. They are just for reference. If you like the sound at '50' then the next time you sit down you know to dial it to 50 and you know what to expect. The number has nothing to do with the number of watts the receiver is putting out. If you turn it up to where you can barely stand it you're probably hearing 25 watts at the most."

Yes, I know these numbers mean nothing, but I was just wondering if OTHER Onkyo receiver owners are finding that, in general and for arguments sake, they ALSO need to turn their dials up past this arbitrary "50" mark in order to really get some juice going from their units, whether they are better than my TX-SR600 or not; Im just trying to see if this is a normal "Onkyo thing" so to speak.

"But to answer your question, I do most of my 'loud' listening with my Onkyo's dial at 83, which is labeled 'reference'. Keep in mind I use external amplifiation and not the recievers amp so I can adjust the amp on down the line."

Well, being that you're using the Onkyo as a preamp, this makes all the difference in the world.....your reference to "83" is irrelevant then to my situation because you're not using the amps inside the receiver.....but that STILL seems mighty high of a number to be at even using the Onkyo as a pre/pro..........

[Lexmark3200]

"I used to have an Onkyo TX-SR601"

What happened to it? You didnt like it?

"that was incredibly loud. With the dial at 50% the volume was enough to send the neighbors over to complain (I live in a detached house). From your comments it sounds like you are between 50 and 70% of the totla volume. That should be far too loud for comfortable listening (unless you are going deaf)."

Well, it seems EVEN WITH the "IntelliVolume" input gain control for the DVD player set to maximum, I'm not getting the results you were.....at 50% up, you can EASILY carry a conversation with the person next to you over this system --- especially if its a dialogue-driven film.....of course, Im running a massive media room for this home theater, so perhaps 80 watts x 5.1 isnt enough power; if I am watching a DVD with a massively well done DTS soundtrack, such as SAVING PRIVATE RYAN during that Omaha Beach attack scene, dont get me wrong ---- I cant get the volume much past that "50" mark before the scene becomes too ear bleeding.....its just that, on the whole, MOST Dolby Digital 5.1 standard soundtracks seem to need a lot of amplification just to get going on this SR600; I dont know, maybe I just got a defective unit or something. I was hoping other Onkyo receiver owners could put me at ease as to where their volume displays are at.

"You might also want to take another look at your speakers. You're using a Polk bookshelf speaker for the center, right (RTi38)? So if what you aren't hearing is the voices, then that may be the problem. Polk recommends the CSi245 for the center in that setup, I believe."

The RTi38's are running as mains only, not the center.

"That said, I also remember that in the setup menu of my TX-SR601 there were two scale settings for volume which were off by 30 (?) units from each other. If you have this set different from the default, then this may be why you can't reach 99."

My scale is set to the absolute setting, which is SUPPOSED to read ZERO to 99, according to the manual --- the only other scale is that "dB" scale which I dont have set up because I never learned how to tap into it......

[syberman]

I have an Onkyo Tx-sr601 and I have a 5.1 setup, Bose speakers. Hey guys, I'm working on upgrading my speakers :) Anyway, I have optical going from DVD player to the Onkyo and I am experiencing something similiar. I have to turn mine up to 50 or higher to get good sound also I had trouble with the receiver with detecting Dolby sound. It was under warranty and the issue was resolved. I just never thought about too much as long as I hear all the sounds of the movie or soundtracks that I'm listing to.

GEAR:
61" Samsung DLP
Onkyo TX-SR601
Bose speakers (I'm workin' on it guys!!)
Dish Network 811 HD Reciever
Panasonic DVD player



"I used to have an Onkyo TX-SR601"

What happened to it? You didnt like it?

"that was incredibly loud. With the dial at 50% the volume was enough to send the neighbors over to complain (I live in a detached house). From your comments it sounds like you are between 50 and 70% of the totla volume. That should be far too loud for comfortable listening (unless you are going deaf)."

Well, it seems EVEN WITH the "IntelliVolume" input gain control for the DVD player set to maximum, I'm not getting the results you were.....at 50% up, you can EASILY carry a conversation with the person next to you over this system --- especially if its a dialogue-driven film.....of course, Im running a massive media room for this home theater, so perhaps 80 watts x 5.1 isnt enough power; if I am watching a DVD with a massively well done DTS soundtrack, such as SAVING PRIVATE RYAN during that Omaha Beach attack scene, dont get me wrong ---- I cant get the volume much past that "50" mark before the scene becomes too ear bleeding.....its just that, on the whole, MOST Dolby Digital 5.1 standard soundtracks seem to need a lot of amplification just to get going on this SR600; I dont know, maybe I just got a defective unit or something. I was hoping other Onkyo receiver owners could put me at ease as to where their volume displays are at.

"You might also want to take another look at your speakers. You're using a Polk bookshelf speaker for the center, right (RTi38)? So if what you aren't hearing is the voices, then that may be the problem. Polk recommends the CSi245 for the center in that setup, I believe."

The RTi38's are running as mains only, not the center.

"That said, I also remember that in the setup menu of my TX-SR601 there were two scale settings for volume which were off by 30 (?) units from each other. If you have this set different from the default, then this may be why you can't reach 99."

My scale is set to the absolute setting, which is SUPPOSED to read ZERO to 99, according to the manual --- the only other scale is that "dB" scale which I dont have set up because I never learned how to tap into it......

[RJW1138]

Warning. The following is not helpful or relevant to the topic at hand in the least. I just had a rant triggered, and felt like sharing it.

I've always found Onkyo to be one of THE WORST offenders in terms of overrating their power specifications. I've read countless lab measurements where the all-channels-driven, 20 Hz - 20 KHz, 0.1% THD power ratings were rediculously inferior to their advertised/marketed power output. Every time I see these shenanigans, I get so frustrated and disgusted. Now I know that technically they're not lying and there's nothing illegal about it because they're NOT claiming that the marketed power rating is all channels driven, 20 - 20K, 0.1% THD. I just resent the company because such tactics are SO dirty and deceptive. Yeah, there's a lot of other companies doing it too, and I understand the idea of doing it to keep up with your competition (blast whoever started this nonsense!), but if they're going to compete in such petty, deceptive nonsense, then I want them to know that I'm going to take my cash to someone else. I shouldn't have to congratulate honesty, but kudos to NAD, Harman/Kardon, Marantz, Yamaha, and the others who are in this mid-fi, highly competitive segment of the market and still choose to be honest to their customers about their power ratings.

I just read the recent Home Theater mag with a review of a "100W x 5" Onkyo receiver in it, and the full lab-tested power rating was ~45W x 5. They still gave the thing a score of 91 (if memory serves correctly) without even writing one word about this huge discrepancy! I find this so shameful from all parties involved.

I've never heard an Onkyo receiver in a competent setup, and that's a shame, because I would like to know how they compare with regards to sound quality with the rest of their competition. But honestly, whenever I recommend home theater products to friends and family, I refer them to the brands that I respect, and don't suggest ones like Onkyo and Kenwood. When there's such intense competition involving highly capable products from manufacturers who are honest with their customers, why would I open up the options to include manufacturers who have lost my respect?

I'd like to think that this is their loss, and people are realizing this and taking their business elsewhere, but the truth is that they're still probably benefiting from this. Oy vey.

[Lexmark3200]

I have an Onkyo Tx-sr601 and I have a 5.1 setup, Bose speakers. Hey guys, I'm working on upgrading my speakers :) Anyway, I have optical going from DVD player to the Onkyo and I am experiencing something similiar. I have to turn mine up to 50 or higher to get good sound also I had trouble with the receiver with detecting Dolby sound. It was under warranty and the issue was resolved. I just never thought about too much as long as I hear all the sounds of the movie or soundtracks that I'm listing to.

GEAR:
61" Samsung DLP
Onkyo TX-SR601
Bose speakers (I'm workin' on it guys!!)
Dish Network 811 HD Reciever
Panasonic DVD player

Hey Syber,

I have an optical digital connection as well from the receiver to the DVD player; does your 601 have that "IntelliVolume" control? You may want to turn the DVD player's input up to maximum ("+12") in order to at least hear SOMETHING under "50"......yet, Im experiencing something similar and my IntelliVolume IS turned up to maximum for gain.....

Its beyond me.....I LOVE Onkyo products too, ever since I heard a friend of mine's two channel stereo receiver from the company which sounded like a good power amp --- Im not kidding. Thats gonna bring me to a reply to the poster beneath you now.....

[Lexmark3200]

Warning. The following is not helpful or relevant to the topic at hand in the least. I just had a rant triggered, and felt like sharing it.

I've always found Onkyo to be one of THE WORST offenders in terms of overrating their power specifications. I've read countless lab measurements where the all-channels-driven, 20 Hz - 20 KHz, 0.1% THD power ratings were rediculously inferior to their advertised/marketed power output. Every time I see these shenanigans, I get so frustrated and disgusted. Now I know that technically they're not lying and there's nothing illegal about it because they're NOT claiming that the marketed power rating is all channels driven, 20 - 20K, 0.1% THD. I just resent the company because such tactics are SO dirty and deceptive. Yeah, there's a lot of other companies doing it too, and I understand the idea of doing it to keep up with your competition (blast whoever started this nonsense!), but if they're going to compete in such petty, deceptive nonsense, then I want them to know that I'm going to take my cash to someone else. I shouldn't have to congratulate honesty, but kudos to NAD, Harman/Kardon, Marantz, Yamaha, and the others who are in this mid-fi, highly competitive segment of the market and still choose to be honest to their customers about their power ratings.

I just read the recent Home Theater mag with a review of a "100W x 5" Onkyo receiver in it, and the full lab-tested power rating was ~45W x 5. They still gave the thing a score of 91 (if memory serves correctly) without even writing one word about this huge discrepancy! I find this so shameful from all parties involved.

I've never heard an Onkyo receiver in a competent setup, and that's a shame, because I would like to know how they compare with regards to sound quality with the rest of their competition. But honestly, whenever I recommend home theater products to friends and family, I refer them to the brands that I respect, and don't suggest ones like Onkyo and Kenwood. When there's such intense competition involving highly capable products from manufacturers who are honest with their customers, why would I open up the options to include manufacturers who have lost my respect?

I'd like to think that this is their loss, and people are realizing this and taking their business elsewhere, but the truth is that they're still probably benefiting from this. Oy vey.

With regard to the above rant, you can believe what you will and you may be correct, but I, for one, will not buy ANY receiver brand outside of Onkyo or Denon (or perhaps maybe Yamaha) as I have been told by friends I have on the editorial staff of Home Theater Magazine that they are doing "the best" receivers right now and to STAY AWAY from the likes of JVC, Kenwood, ANYTHING SONY (except for their ES line), or even Panasonic (in terms of Panasonic's receivers --- their DVD players are purported to be excellent).

The heft of the Onkyo receivers, their beautiful, all-aluminum brushed faceplates and uncluttered front displays, the oversized components they use like heat sinks and capacitors.....they may not be delivering full on rated power (much like a car wont give you its advertised horsepower either most of the time) but the BUILD QUALITY of the Onkyo --- and even Integra --- line are light years beyond the likes of Kenwood or JVC. Like I said, if I were recommending a receiver to someone, I wouldnt go beyond Denon or Onkyo.

[syberman]

Lex, I have that feature on my Onkyo and personally, I just thought that it would work itself. I did not know that I had to do something special to this function for it to perform. And as for my DVD player, how do I turn it up to +12? I like my Onkyo and it give me sufficent power to push my Bose and they sound fine. I am in the upgrade itch starting with my speakers and then ultimatly the Denon 5805, one day. But for now, I am content.







With regard to the above rant, you can believe what you will and you may be correct, but I, for one, will not buy ANY receiver brand outside of Onkyo or Denon (or perhaps maybe Yamaha) as I have been told by friends I have on the editorial staff of Home Theater Magazine that they are doing "the best" receivers right now and to STAY AWAY from the likes of JVC, Kenwood, ANYTHING SONY (except for their ES line), or even Panasonic (in terms of Panasonic's receivers --- their DVD players are purported to be excellent).

The heft of the Onkyo receivers, their beautiful, all-aluminum brushed faceplates and uncluttered front displays, the oversized components they use like heat sinks and capacitors.....they may not be delivering full on rated power (much like a car wont give you its advertised horsepower either most of the time) but the BUILD QUALITY of the Onkyo --- and even Integra --- line are light years beyond the likes of Kenwood or JVC. Like I said, if I were recommending a receiver to someone, I wouldnt go beyond Denon or Onkyo.

[kexodusc]

So, you're saying dont "be afraid" to go into the high-50's on the display or maybe above?

That's exactly what I'm saying, but use good judgement, if things start to sound bad, turn it down, when incresing volume, do it slowly to test your system out. If all seems well, then you know in the future you can go that loud withot worry.


Yes, this receiver has a way of switching over to the dB increments, but I havent figured out how; I keep it on absolute number scale, which I find needs more amplification that reaching this "50" mark --- but as you said, perhaps there is a lot more audio headroom to deal with there between 50 and the absolute "70" or so maximum number......do you honestly feel there is plenty of power left between those two numbers if I keep turning the volume up?

I don't know for sure, but don't be afraid to turn it up to see...an SPL meter would be great for $40 to verify what kind of volumes your reaching. If you hear distortion or something funny, you can turn it down without doing any damage...leaving it distorting for a long period of time isn't good though...always increase volume in small increments though when doing it the first time, just to be safe.


So are you saying in the case of my Onkyo, this could relate to not getting much audio below this "50" mark on the display?
Yes, it is possible, keep in mind, if you were using the dB scale, the last 50% of power/channel wouldn't be delivered until the final 3 dB or so. But you don't want to be that loud or you risk loosing headroom...



"Hopefully some other Onkyo users will chime in to confirm my suspicions that you've got lots of juice left in the receiver before hitting anywhere near max. And as I said, even with the volume at max, and the input voltage at max, it doesn't mean the receiver will output it's maximum power"

But why is this? And thank you for your continued assistance.

Volume controls for the most part use a resistor, they often don't operate in a linear fashion. That means at 25% volume indication on the knob/display, doesn't mean it's at 25% power. Depending on the resistors used it can be all over the map.
You see this a lot with subwoofer plate amps. When I was building my sub, I felt the 240 watt amp wasn't delivering all of it's rated power, I was worried it was defective, or wasn't reading the input signal correctly. So I dissected the plate amp to see what was going on. I had a 250 watt unit from the same manufacturer that I referred to the values in resistors where quite a bit different. Long story short, the larger amp's level knob on the back would go from silence to ear bleeding loud at the 11 o'clock position. The 240 watt unit had to be cranked all the way to the 3 o'clock position. I measured the voltage on each to verify the power output, both were outputing around 3 watts at the level I operated this experiment at, yet the volume knobs where in much different positions. The difference was the resistor value used.
To answer the "why" to your question, my 240 watt amp's volume knob was almost at the max position when fed a signal but was nowhere near max power output. Changing the resistor would make the volume control much more sensitive to moving the dial. I could have it cranked to the max, but it was still only instructing the amp to deliver a few watts of power. The reason why your Onkyo MIGHT not be at max power output when the volume is at max is because the volume control is arbitrary, it's just a reference point, and it's quite possible Onkyo left headroom available in the unit even when users cranked the dial all the way to max.

It's difficult for us to troubleshoot over the web. If you can find an SPL meter or figure out all the display options, it would help us a bit more. Dolby Digital is, IIRC recorded at a lower volume than DTS, so it's not surprising you have to exceed "50". Remember, if the input signal strength is lower (Dolby Digital), the volume will be lower. The pre-amp stage in the receiver is what uses that volume control...it'll amplify the input signal some, then feed it to the amplifer stage which does the serious amplification...three different forces at work here...

[Lexmark3200]

Lex, I have that feature on my Onkyo and personally, I just thought that it would work itself. I did not know that I had to do something special to this function for it to perform. And as for my DVD player, how do I turn it up to +12? I like my Onkyo and it give me sufficent power to push my Bose and they sound fine. I am in the upgrade itch starting with my speakers and then ultimatly the Denon 5805, one day. But for now, I am content.

No, the "IntelliVolume" input control, which is like a gain control on an amplifier --- be it a car stereo amp or home amp --- does not automatically "perform"; in fact, from the factory, I believe they're all set at "ZERO" (0)......see, EACH component you have hooked up to your Onkyo (CD player, DVD player, tape deck, etc) have an INTELLIVOLUME control if you go under the input setup menu.....just bring these levels up to the maximum, which is "+12" and this will guarantee you are getting maximum voltage gain from the DVD player when watching films.....select "DVD" on your Onkyo's front panel and then go under the input setup menu and jack the IntelliVolume up to "+12" and this yields much better sound from the DVD player, believe me.

Still, I am finding this unit, on MOST DVD soundtracks, needs more than "50" on the display, even properly calibrated, to sound "sufficiently loud"; of course, I may need to get realistic here and realize that I am dealing with an "80 watt x 6" receiver............

[Lexmark3200]

"That's exactly what I'm saying, but use good judgement, if things start to sound bad, turn it down, when incresing volume, do it slowly to test your system out. If all seems well, then you know in the future you can go that loud withot worry."

Okay; yeah, when I increase volume, its usually in one step increments anyway because as you get further up the volume scale on this Onkyo (beyond high "50"s I would say), the more sensitive the volume becomes --- meaning with each step at that point, the volume becomes noticeably louder than when, say, only in the "30"s or "40"s......



"I don't know for sure, but don't be afraid to turn it up to see...an SPL meter would be great for $40 to verify what kind of volumes your reaching. If you hear distortion or something funny, you can turn it down without doing any damage...leaving it distorting for a long period of time isn't good though...always increase volume in small increments though when doing it the first time, just to be safe."

I am experiencing NO distortion, myseriously, at ANY volume level I run. I think this is a really good receiver, its just that Im wondering WHY I need to get the amp to "50" and above to get sound out of it, but you address this below:


"Yes, it is possible, keep in mind, if you were using the dB scale, the last 50% of power/channel wouldn't be delivered until the final 3 dB or so. But you don't want to be that loud or you risk loosing headroom..."

Thats what Im afraid of......that as I go into the "60"s (if I need to) on the volume display, Im slowly "running out of headroom" on this receiver because, like I said, I have visually seen that the receiver DOES NOT max out at the advertised "99".........


"Volume controls for the most part use a resistor, they often don't operate in a linear fashion. That means at 25% volume indication on the knob/display, doesn't mean it's at 25% power. Depending on the resistors used it can be all over the map."

Understood.


"To answer the "why" to your question, my 240 watt amp's volume knob was almost at the max position when fed a signal but was nowhere near max power output. Changing the resistor would make the volume control much more sensitive to moving the dial. I could have it cranked to the max, but it was still only instructing the amp to deliver a few watts of power. The reason why your Onkyo MIGHT not be at max power output when the volume is at max is because the volume control is arbitrary, it's just a reference point, and it's quite possible Onkyo left headroom available in the unit even when users cranked the dial all the way to max."

I see, but because I have some input control gains, such as this "IntelliVolume" control set to high decibel numbers, I believe I am robbing the receiver of maximum headroom available......but under +12 on the IntelliVolume setting, the DVD player's audio output is NOT that satisfying......this IntelliVolume kind of guarantees that Im getting maximum voltage gain from my DVD player. But I have compensated by leaving OTHER settings flat, like bass and treble......in the end, I think I have robbed the receiver myself of available headroom --- yet, I am just concerned that its OKAY to bring the receiver past this "50" mark and above, EVEN THOUGH I may be running out of gain north of "60" or higher......

"Dolby Digital is, IIRC recorded at a lower volume than DTS, so it's not surprising you have to exceed "50". Remember, if the input signal strength is lower (Dolby Digital), the volume will be lower. The pre-amp stage in the receiver is what uses that volume control...it'll amplify the input signal some, then feed it to the amplifer stage which does the serious amplification...three different forces at work here..."

Now THIS is what I was trying to confirm and make me feel better about, and you have done just that my good friend.......I KNOW Dolby Digital is recorded at a lower rate than DTS tracks, and THATS EXACTLY what I am experiencing when playing back Dolby Digital soundtracks --- that on average (unless they're a REALLY pumped up Dolby track like on TERMINATOR 3) I need to bring that display on the volume past the "50" count in order to really get "immersed" in the soundtrack --- but DTS requires slighly less volume power. I guess this is what is going on. Thank you for confirmation that Dolby Digital tracks ARE recorder lower than DTS ones.