Are Receivers "Good Enough"?

[Lexmark3200]

Of course, we would all love to have the budget for multi-channel power amps to send juice to EACH of our loudspeakers in our home theater systems, and parametric EQs to control the sound of EACH of those amps with 100s of thousands of watts, but for those of you running more "realistic" systems such as I am, with a receiver at the heart of that system, do you feel that it's sufficient in satisfying your home theater needs? Are receivers, for the most part, if they are of a good grade, "good enough" to power a home theater system alone WITHOUT going separate power amp and pre/pro combos?

How many of you are running just one simple receiver to power your surround sound system, and how are you finding the kind of job it is doing?

[Geoffcin]

Of course, we would all love to have the budget for multi-channel power amps to send juice to EACH of our loudspeakers in our home theater systems, and parametric EQs to control the sound of EACH of those amps with 100s of thousands of watts, but for those of you running more "realistic" systems such as I am, with a receiver at the heart of that system, do you feel that it's sufficient in satisfying your home theater needs? Are receivers, for the most part, if they are of a good grade, "good enough" to power a home theater system alone WITHOUT going separate power amp and pre/pro combos?

How many of you are running just one simple receiver to power your surround sound system, and how are you finding the kind of job it is doing?

For most consumer grade speakers with a benign 8 ohm resistance, and decent 88dB or better efficiency a typical 100 wpc receiver will do fine. When you start to get into speaker with lower efficiencies, and harder to drive loads that dip to 4ohm or lower then a receiver might not cut it. Also, for people who are into multi-channel music the absolute BEST setup would be a totally discrete system with 5 identical speakers. For home theater this is NOT nessasary.

[GMichael]

Of course, we would all love to have the budget for multi-channel power amps to send juice to EACH of our loudspeakers in our home theater systems, and parametric EQs to control the sound of EACH of those amps with 100s of thousands of watts, but for those of you running more "realistic" systems such as I am, with a receiver at the heart of that system, do you feel that it's sufficient in satisfying your home theater needs? Are receivers, for the most part, if they are of a good grade, "good enough" to power a home theater system alone WITHOUT going separate power amp and pre/pro combos?

How many of you are running just one simple receiver to power your surround sound system, and how are you finding the kind of job it is doing?

Hi Lex,

I love my system. It has fantastic sound to me. 95% or more of the average people looking for a HT system would probably agree with me. In fact, I bet if you put the other 5% in my room with a blindfold on they would even say that it sounds good to them.

It's just this stuppid improvement bug that I've cought. Now that I've had a taste of how good it can sound, I want more, more, and still more improvements. It's got to be better at any cost! I've heard better speakers. But those speakers need more amps than my receiver can give. I have been to a few hi-end shops and heard some very expensive equiptment over the last few months. Do they sound better than mine? Sure. Are they 10, 20 or 30 times better? H.ll no! But I want them anyhow.

Want and need are not the same. The receiver I have is plennty for anyone who hasn't been spoilled yet. I have it on every chance I get. In fact, wait, do you hear that? It's calling me now. Listen, "play me.... play me.... Sorry, have to run for now......

[Lexmark3200]

"For most consumer grade speakers with a benign 8 ohm resistance, and decent 88dB or better efficiency a typical 100 wpc receiver will do fine."


Thanks Geo,

I appreciate your input; but what about folks like me with receivers with UNDER 100 watts per channel (rated full bandwidth or so Onkyo claims)? This TX-SR600 seems to have "just enough" power to fill the MASSIVE room it's in with sound, but its rated at 80 watts x 6........

[Lexmark3200]

Hi Lex,

I love my system. It has fantastic sound to me. 95% or more of the average people looking for a HT system would probably agree with me. In fact, I bet if you put the other 5% in my room with a blindfold on they would even say that it sounds good to them.

It's just this stuppid improvement bug that I've cought. Now that I've had a taste of how good it can sound, I want more, more, and still more improvements. It's got to be better at any cost! I've heard better speakers. But those speakers need more amps than my receiver can give. I have been to a few hi-end shops and heard some very expensive equiptment over the last few months. Do they sound better than mine? Sure. Are they 10, 20 or 30 times better? H.ll no! But I want them anyhow.

Want and need are not the same. The receiver I have is plennty for anyone who hasn't been spoilled yet. I have it on every chance I get. In fact, wait, do you hear that? It's calling me now. Listen, "play me.... play me.... Sorry, have to run for now......

Hahhahahaha Thanks Michael!

Thank you for your thoughts; like Geo, they are putting me a bit at ease knowing I'll be "okay" with "just" my receiver for now.....

I see it in your signature, but what brand is your receiver.....Yamaha or Harmon Kardon?

[N. Abstentia]

You can always add a good 5 channel amp to your receiver (if it has preamp outputs) which will make a huge difference if you have capable speakers. A good amp can be had for under $500 on the used market.

[Lexmark3200]

You can always add a good 5 channel amp to your receiver (if it has preamp outputs) which will make a huge difference if you have capable speakers. A good amp can be had for under $500 on the used market.

Yes, Abstenia, this is knew.....thank you.....I was hoping to one day use the Onkyo Im running now as the pre/pro and add an amp, the only problem is this unit HAS no preamp outs.....for this reason, do you think I can be put at ease with the statement "the receiver is 'good enough'" even though you say the amps make a huge difference?

Can receivers be cosidered "good enough" though, even in your opinion, as the heart of most people's systems?

P.S. Is there ANY way around adding a five channel power amp to a receiver WITHOUT preamp outputs? I have heard this is possible using some kind of "converter" device, much like is used in car audio, where a factory radio's speaker-level lines are "convered" with an "RCA converter" to run a clean line to a car power amp; I have this setup in my own car. Is this possible somehow in home audio?

[GMichael]

Hahhahahaha Thanks Michael!

Thank you for your thoughts; like Geo, they are putting me a bit at ease knowing I'll be "okay" with "just" my receiver for now.....

I see it in your signature, but what brand is your receiver.....Yamaha or Harmon Kardon?

Mine is a Yamaha. But I looked at Denon, Onkio and HK before I bought it. The 75 & 80 wpc systems sounded good too. I'm sure that's much more than you would get with one of those $3k Bose systems. And even they sound pretty good. The average Joe would think they just bought the best system available.

[Geoffcin]

"For most consumer grade speakers with a benign 8 ohm resistance, and decent 88dB or better efficiency a typical 100 wpc receiver will do fine."


Thanks Geo,

I appreciate your input; but what about folks like me with receivers with UNDER 100 watts per channel (rated full bandwidth or so Onkyo claims)? This TX-SR600 seems to have "just enough" power to fill the MASSIVE room it's in with sound, but its rated at 80 watts x 6........

Not to worry! Onkyo, like HK, is notorious for underating their power, so a move to a 100wpc receiver would net you almost no gain, or added available gain as the case may be.

A massive room means a LARGER subwoofer is needed. I would budget my $$$ for this first. A move to a larger sub can net a LOT more bang-for-buck, than switching receivers.

[Lexmark3200]

Mine is a Yamaha. But I looked at Denon, Onkio and HK before I bought it. The 75 & 80 wpc systems sounded good too. I'm sure that's much more than you would get with one of those $3k Bose systems. And even they sound pretty good. The average Joe would think they just bought the best system available.

For the average "Joe" idiot consumer who knows NOTHING about audio, Bose is like the Holy Grail to them, when in reality, Bose is overrated crap. Denon and Onkyo are definitely doing the best receivers right now, and I wouldnt consider another brand if I were to buy all over again --- except for maybe a Yamaha like you have. The build quality and performance of Denon, (Yamaha) and Onkyo receivers seem light years superior to the likes of JVC, Kenwood, and ANY NON-ES designated Sony receiver models.....I wouldnt even consider anything Sony outside of a portable CD walkman product or a TV.

[Lexmark3200]

Not to worry! Onkyo, like HK, is notorious for underating their power, so a move to a 100wpc receiver would net you almost no gain, or added available gain as the case may be.

A massive room means a LARGER subwoofer is needed. I would budget my $$$ for this first. A move to a larger sub can net a LOT more bang-for-buck, than switching receivers.

When you say "underrated" you mean this unit MAY be pumping out, at certain peaks or times, MORE than the advertised 80 watts per channel? And I had thought that jumping to a higher-powered receiver would net little audible gain....I suspected this, even if I went with a "flagship" receiver from Onkyo, or another of my favorite brands, Denon.

I can see where a larger subwoofer would be needed in my case; my Polk is a 10" powered sub and definitely rocks the walls when it needs to, but I can only imagine what a LARGER sub would do......

[GMichael]

Not to worry! Onkyo, like HK, is notorious for underating their power, so a move to a 100wpc receiver would net you almost no gain, or added available gain as the case may be.

A massive room means a LARGER subwoofer is needed. I would budget my $$$ for this first. A move to a larger sub can net a LOT more bang-for-buck, than switching receivers.

I agree with Geo. When listening to HT I never get anywhere near max volume before it's too loud. It's only when I listen to music that I turn it up past -15db. Even then I don't leave it that high for long. The sub would make the biggest difference for HT. Love those big explossions and crashes.

[N. Abstentia]

Can receivers be cosidered "good enough" though, even in your opinion, as the heart of most people's systems?

P.S. Is there ANY way around adding a five channel power amp to a receiver WITHOUT preamp outputs? I have heard this is possible using some kind of "converter" device, much like is used in car audio, where a factory radio's speaker-level lines are "convered" with an "RCA converter" to run a clean line to a car power amp; I have this setup in my own car. Is this possible somehow in home audio?

Yes I think receivers can be good enough for most people as long as it's good quality. It just depends on how serious you want to get. For most people a Ford Escort is good enough, as it does the job of getting you from point A to point B. However other people prefer to get serious, spend some money, and get to point B in style and comfort.

If you don't have preamp outputs, don't even bother with an amp. Going through some crappy convertor would just rob you of any quality you would gain with the amp. Upgrade to a newer receiver first, and if you spend $1000 or so on a new receiver you might find you don't even need the amp.

[Lexmark3200]

I agree with Geo. When listening to HT I never get anywhere near max volume before it's too loud. It's only when I listen to music that I turn it up past -15db. Even then I don't leave it that high for long. The sub would make the biggest difference for HT. Love those big explossions and crashes.

Funny thing, Michael, on my Onkyo, the volume display scale is supposed to go from ZERO (0) to "99" with "99" being max output --- but this unit tops out NOWHERE NEAR "99"; it seems that near "99" there would be nothing but distortion anyway, even though my system is calibrated correctly and to my liking, but I often find myself needing to approach those high numbers --- like way past "50" in order to fill this big room with sound and drown out the ambient noises Im dealing with in this room, like four dogs barking, people talking and rustling snack food bags, etc.....are these ambient noises expected in a home theater setting, and should I be worried that I need to turn my volume up so high sometimes to achieve room-filling sound?

[Lexmark3200]

"Yes I think receivers can be good enough for most people as long as it's good quality. It just depends on how serious you want to get. For most people a Ford Escort is good enough, as it does the job of getting you from point A to point B. However other people prefer to get serious, spend some money, and get to point B in style and comfort."

I hear what you're saying; I feel the Onkyo I have --- and Onkyo receivers in general --- are of great quality.

"If you don't have preamp outputs, don't even bother with an amp. Going through some crappy convertor would just rob you of any quality you would gain with the amp. Upgrade to a newer receiver first, and if you spend $1000 or so on a new receiver you might find you don't even need the amp."

Thank you. I guess thats what I wanted to know.

[GMichael]

Funny thing, Michael, on my Onkyo, the volume display scale is supposed to go from ZERO (0) to "99" with "99" being max output --- but this unit tops out NOWHERE NEAR "99"; it seems that near "99" there would be nothing but distortion anyway, even though my system is calibrated correctly and to my liking, but I often find myself needing to approach those high numbers --- like way past "50" in order to fill this big room with sound and down out the ambient noises Im dealing with in this room, like four dogs barking, people talking and rustling snack food bags, etc.....are these ambient noises expected in a home theater setting, and should I be worried that I need to turn my volume up so high sometimes to achieve room-filling sound?

I guess that's a question that I can't really give you a quality answer on. Best I can do is say, if it doesn't sound distorted, then it should be ok.

Geo? Flo? any other high tech guys?

[Lexmark3200]

I guess that's a question that I can't really give you a quality answer on. Best I can do is say, if it doesn't sound distorted, then it should be ok.

Geo? Flo? any other high tech guys?

No, I am not getting ANY distortion at ANY sound level.......

[Geoffcin]

When you say "underrated" you mean this unit MAY be pumping out, at certain peaks or times, MORE than the advertised 80 watts per channel? And I had thought that jumping to a higher-powered receiver would net little audible gain....I suspected this, even if I went with a "flagship" receiver from Onkyo, or another of my favorite brands, Denon.......

I wouldn't go that far. I've heard nearly all of the mid-priced receivers and I'm hard pressed to state that any one brand bests the rest in sound quality. You do get a lot of bang for the buck with a mid-priced receiver though.

The flagships are a different breed entirely, and I DID notice a difference when one of these was hooked into the system. Most of these are rated 140 watts or better, and some, like the HK flagship, can dump 275 watts per channel into 4ohms( gobs above the "rated" performance). That's a lot of current, and it can drive most speakers like nobodies business.

Here's a link to some more info on receivers;

http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/



I can see where a larger subwoofer would be needed in my case; my Polk is a 10" powered sub and definitely rocks the walls when it needs to, but I can only imagine what a LARGER sub would do......

A 10" subwoofer is good for a moderate sized room, but once you hear what a high output 12", or even 15" subwoofer will do you will wonder how you ever got along without one.

[Lexmark3200]

"I wouldn't go that far. I've heard nearly all of the mid-priced receivers and I'm hard pressed to state that any one brand bests the rest in sound quality. You do get a lot of bang for the buck with a mid-priced receiver though."

When I auditioned home theater gear at J&R Music World in New York City, where I ultimately purchased all the equipment, I heard a definite difference between the Onkyos they had on display, and, say, the Harmon Kardons or other brands......J&R doesnt carry crap like JVC, so there wasnt much "crap" to compare to, but I have to be honest, even between these mid-priced receivers I was demoing, testing and feeling for BUILD QUALITY, I found the Onkyos to be and sound the best.....TO MY EARS. I have also been told by some friends I have on the editorial staff at Home Theater Magazine, based in Florida, that inside sources tell them that Onkyo and Denon are making the best receivers right now; its a bit of an inside secret, according to them, and they advised me not to consider another brand, but I did audition other brands while I was in J&R; ultimately, the salesman that spent three hours with me and my friend as I gathered up the gear for my system I was going to buy, recommended the TX-SR600 personally as well as stating that HE HIMSELF uses Onkyo in his own system and recommends the product tremendously. I can remember hearing an Onkyo stereo receiver this same friend that came with me had hooked up to his home system, and when cranked, this thing sounded like a good two channel power amp --- I'm not kidding. From that day, I was kind of sold on the brand's receiver abilities.

"The flagships are a different breed entirely, and I DID notice a difference when one of these was hooked into the system. Most of these are rated 140 watts or better, and some, like the HK flagship, can dump 275 watts per channel into 4ohms( gobs above the "rated" performance). That's a lot of current, and it can drive most speakers like nobodies business."

Hmmmmm.....interesting.....I will have to go demo some flagships. I have been told, on other home theater oriented websites, that many times jumping to these flagship receivers do not yield as much of a power difference as one would think --- especially compared to going separate amp/pre-pros as compared to a flagship receiver.


"A 10" subwoofer is good for a moderate sized room, but once you hear what a high output 12", or even 15" subwoofer will do you will wonder how you ever got along without one."

I suspected this; I have TWO Rockford Fosgate 15" subs in my car, so I know what 15's can do.....its just that this 10 has been doing fine for my movie-watching needs, and actually shakes the walls of this large room I'm in now, believe it or not........

[topspeed]

I will have to go demo some flagships. I have been told, on other home theater oriented websites, that many times jumping to these flagship receivers do not yield as much of a power difference as one would think --- especially compared to going separate amp/pre-pros as compared to a flagship receiver.
Power wise, I think you're absolutely right. However, a lot of flagship receivers, such as the mighty Denon 5805, bring a truck load of serious technology to the table. The DAC's, video processing chips, and auto EQ in this monster are absolutely state-of-the-art. It also offers multi-room, multi-source control that is a dream for installers. Imagine being able to run TWO separate 5.1 HT's from one receiver! From what I understand, the 5805 is up to the task. That's impressive.

That said, it is still a serious chunk of change and I'd be hard pressed to unload that many dead presidents on anything other than separates. You just have more choices with separates.

As for your situation, the fact that your Onkyo is fulfilling your needs with no sign of distortion pretty well answers your own question. Clearly, it's enough. I'm not into HT enough for me to run a killer pre/pro like a Halo C2 or Halcro SSP 100 w/ God-knows-what kind of multi-channel monster. I reserve that insanity for two-channel :p. For me, a good, high-quality receiver does just fine for my HT.

[Lexmark3200]

"Power wise, I think you're absolutely right. However, a lot of flagship receivers, such as the mighty Denon 5805, bring a truck load of serious technology to the table. The DAC's, video processing chips, and auto EQ in this monster are absolutely state-of-the-art. It also offers multi-room, multi-source control that is a dream for installers. Imagine being able to run TWO separate 5.1 HT's from one receiver! From what I understand, the 5805 is up to the task. That's impressive."

Yes, that is what I have come to understand about flagship receivers --- that they are on the absolute CUTTING EDGE of technology, and are the test beds for these manufacturers and their new decoding schemes, etc --- however, for me, these massive, multi-room-powering functions are of absolute no use to me, being that I ALWAYS run JUST ONE dedicated home theater system at a time, in one room. To me, these multi-room-purpose $6000 receivers are just unnecessary for certain overkill reasons; but this is a personal view.

"That said, it is still a serious chunk of change and I'd be hard pressed to unload that many dead presidents on anything other than separates. You just have more choices with separates."

This is what Im worried about ---- that separates may foot the bill better for the money than going with these so-called flagships....but, you address this below.....

"As for your situation, the fact that your Onkyo is fulfilling your needs with no sign of distortion pretty well answers your own question. Clearly, it's enough. I'm not into HT enough for me to run a killer pre/pro like a Halo C2 or Halcro SSP 100 w/ God-knows-what kind of multi-channel monster. I reserve that insanity for two-channel :p. For me, a good, high-quality receiver does just fine for my HT."

Well, I am REALLY into multichannel home theater cinema viewing/DVD viewing and audio analyzing to the point that its an obsessive hobby ---- I was just wondering if there were others out there with home theater setups relying on simple receivers and their internal power without the need for separate amps and the like; with my Onkyo, though, it seems I need to bring the volume level to a pretty high stage to fill this big room with sound ---- with NO distortion, mind you, but do you think this is normal, that we would need to bring our systems up pretty high to really get "immersed" in a DVD's soundtrack? And is it normal to be able to HEAR distracting ambient noises around you if you are watching in a NON DEDICATED, non-noise-treated home theater room, such as dogs barking or snack bags rustling or someone next to you talking? Would all this be considered "normal" in a home theater when running a receiver for main power?

[topspeed]

[QUOTE=Lexmark3200do you think this is normal, that we would need to bring our systems up pretty high to really get "immersed" in a DVD's soundtrack? And is it normal to be able to HEAR distracting ambient noises around you if you are watching in a NON DEDICATED, non-noise-treated home theater room, such as dogs barking or snack bags rustling or someone next to you talking? Would all this be considered "normal" in a home theater when running a receiver for main power?[/QUOTE]
I dunno, most people consider me pretty well abnormal anyways :p.

Seriously though, for 99% of the population, hearing ambient noises is just life happening. Who hasn't gone to a movie where some doughnut is yapping away on their cellphone, slowing prying open the celophane wrapper on their candy, or doesn't have the good sense to walk out of the theatre with their crying infant? At home we have dogs barking, washing machines going, kids screaming, et al. In other words, the answer to your question is "Yes."

[Lexmark3200]

"Seriously though, for 99% of the population, hearing ambient noises is just life happening. Who hasn't gone to a movie where some doughnut is yapping away on their cellphone, slowing prying open the celophane wrapper on their candy, or doesn't have the good sense to walk out of the theatre with their crying infant? At home we have dogs barking, washing machines going, kids screaming, et al. In other words, the answer to your question is "Yes."

Thank you very much. You have made me sleep better tonight! Seriously! :)

[alexperl]

I am in stereo new and i have Pre Power and Power Amp From rotel.
I whant to enjoy movies as well i enjoy my music.
I deside to buy another Power Amp and a Prossesor insted of a reciever, becouse i really whant to keep the sound quallity that i have right now.
And i think that the same quallity of a reciver will coast much much more.

[Glen B]

A few years ago I traded up (or is it down) separates for an Onkyo HT receiver. I just got tired of the mixing and matching and trying to find the right pre-processor. So far I have been happy with the receiver. One thing though, I made sure the receiver I bought had pre-outs for all channels just in case I ever decided to add an external multichannel amp.

[Lexmark3200]

A few years ago I traded up (or is it down) separates for an Onkyo HT receiver. I just got tired of the mixing and matching and trying to find the right pre-processor. So far I have been happy with the receiver. One thing though, I made sure the receiver I bought had pre-outs for all channels just in case I ever decided to add an external multichannel amp.

This is the same reason I simply went to a receiver instead of separates because at the time, I just didnt want to deal with picking a five channel power amp, plus a processor and the price that would have been attached to that, so I just went with the Onkyo receiver. Unfortunately, I dont have the preouts for an amp.....

So, would you conclude that receivers, for the most part seem "good enough" to power home theaters?

[Glen B]

So, would you conclude that receivers, for the most part seem "good enough" to power home theaters?

In all but the largest rooms, with efficient speakers -- yes.

[cam]

This is the same reason I simply went to a receiver instead of separates because at the time, I just didnt want to deal with picking a five channel power amp, plus a processor and the price that would have been attached to that, so I just went with the Onkyo receiver. Unfortunately, I dont have the preouts for an amp.....

So, would you conclude that receivers, for the most part seem "good enough" to power home theaters?
I, like you, have a receiver that does not have pre outs for an external amp. I have the Denon 1804 which I find has plenty of power for HT. Now in my case my front three speakers are 93db efficient (in room) and my surrounds are 94db (in room) so my need for power might be less then most. But when you think about it, in an HT set up, you will have all 5 speakers set to small with a crossover setting at 80hz (I personally like 100hz with my set up) and hopefully a very capable sub. A lower or mid level receiver will have no problem filling a mid or large room with clean undistorted sound at loud levels aslong as it is only producing sound at 80 hz on up with hopefully some efficient speakers. When it comes to your sub, it is alot harder to fill a room with good quality undistorted sound at loud levels. To know for sure whether your receiver is crapping out and ruining your sound or if it is your sub that cannot keep up, throw on Attack of The Clones at your reference level, now go up to your sub and turn down the gain all of the way. Does the overall sound, sound less strained. If so, I would say that your receiver and speaker set up is working fine but your sub is just not keeping up. I at one time thought that my 1804 just wasn't cutting it. Only to realize that my 1804 with my speakers were sounding clean and loud and my old paradigm ps-1000 was not keepin up. I bought a paradigm pw-2200, problem solved. If I didn't really examine my situation, I would have upgraded my receiver to only realize that it wasn't the receiver after all. With money no object, (and if I had extra money to burn) I would upgrade to a denon 3805, or, to save a few bucks a yamaha 2500.

[Lexmark3200]

"To know for sure whether your receiver is crapping out and ruining your sound or if it is your sub that cannot keep up, throw on Attack of The Clones at your reference level, now go up to your sub and turn down the gain all of the way. Does the overall sound, sound less strained. If so, I would say that your receiver and speaker set up is working fine but your sub is just not keeping up"

I have done this test PLENTY of times with ATTACK OF THE CLONES, specifically where the senator's ship explodes in the beginning.....beyond reference level, my sub used to crack and snap during this sequence, so I had to bring the sub's calibration level down a decibel in the setup menu. This seemed to stop that "snapping" that accompanied this scene when the ship explodes.....

[cam]

So what you are saying is that your sub is your limiting factor with your HT system, not your receiver. While we all want a bigger and better receiver, sometimes we have a lesser piece within our system that should get attended to first. Your sub is crack'n and snapp'n, sounds like a recipe for a ruined sound. Your receiver should be adequate as long as your sub is adequate. Crack'n and snapp'n from your sub might lead you to thinking you need seperates, but really you need a capable sub. If I was you, I would look at a SVS sub, email them and they will be more then helpfull to what you will need to fill your room with clean undistorted bass. If you do not like to buy online without hearing, I can atleast recommend the Paradigm PW-2200 V2. It will cost you about $1000 Can. or less. Huge output, it would be hard to reach the pw-2200's limits unless you have a extra huge room.

[Lexmark3200]

But has the question in this forum been answered, even with the suggestion of a sub.....are receivers, for the most part, GOOD ENOUGH for home cinema use or are separates recommended?

I guess its a matter of budget and taste, in the end....I dont know....Im just hoping I have enough "receiver" in the end to get good, home theater sound......of if turning to a multichannel amp is the way to go.....

[cam]

But has the question in this forum been answered, even with the suggestion of a sub.....are receivers, for the most part, GOOD ENOUGH for home cinema use or are separates recommended?

I guess its a matter of budget and taste, in the end....I dont know....Im just hoping I have enough "receiver" in the end to get good, home theater sound......of if turning to a multichannel amp is the way to go.....
If you own an HT receiver, it will be totally adequate for HT, only as long as you have a capable sub. Even the lowest receiver, lets say the denon 1705, as long as it is crossed over and you are powering somewhat effecient speakers and you have a capable sub, you should be in HT heaven. If you decide your receiver is not up to par and you have pre outs and you add a seperate amp and it still does not sound like it should, change out your little 10 inch sub.

[Lexmark3200]

If you own an HT receiver, it will be totally adequate for HT, only as long as you have a capable sub. Even the lowest receiver, lets say the denon 1705, as long as it is crossed over and you are powering somewhat effecient speakers and you have a capable sub, you should be in HT heaven. If you decide your receiver is not up to par and you have pre outs and you add a seperate amp and it still does not sound like it should, change out your little 10 inch sub.

How can it be that the only primary ingredient or limiting factor whether or not a receiver is good enough to power a home theater is dependent on a subwoofer alone?

[drseid]

But has the question in this forum been answered, even with the suggestion of a sub.....are receivers, for the most part, GOOD ENOUGH for home cinema use or are separates recommended?

If we take your specific situation out of the equation, then with *most* receivers the answer is "yes." I think it really just depends on what speakers the receiver has to drive, and the "real" power of the receiver itself...

So if you want a blanket answer, then it would have to be "maybe."

To your specific example, I agree with others that it sounds less like your receiver is letting you down, and more like it is your sub. Assuming you are using a sub pre-out from your receiver, then it sounds like the subwoofer does not have enough power... Shaking the walls is not necessarily a measure of good HT sound, IMO... That *could* just be unwanted low-bass distortion (emphasis on "could," as I am mearly speculating here). I would try a larger (and/or more powerful) sub before looking to replace your receiver... The SVS suggestion made by another poster is a good one, IMO.

---Dave

[cam]

How can it be that the only primary ingredient or limiting factor whether or not a receiver is good enough to power a home theater is dependent on a subwoofer alone?
Your sub is the foundation for the rest of your sound. If it isn't keeping up with your overall levels, it may make you think that you need a more powerfull receiver or even seperates. Think of it this way, lets say that in your car you have 4 5x7 size speakers powered by a 50 watt x 4 amp. Should sound pretty good, right. Ok then, what would make that system sound better, going to a 100 watt x 4 amp or adding a capable sub. Trust me Lex, anybody can make their overall sound, sound better, just by adding a good sub and keeping the receiver that one is using. Any receiver out there will sound better match with a GOOD sub. Lots of people get receivers like the denon 3805 or the yamaha 2500 only to muddy up their system with a $300 sub. It should be the other way around, get the denon 1905 ot yamaha 650/ 750 and spend $1000 on the sub. I guarantee the latter will sound WAAAAY better.

Your onkyo will sound way better anchored to a good sub.

[Lexmark3200]

Well, I guess, due to everyone's thoughtful replies, that I have to consider the subwoofer upgrade issue, although I am still wondering if a receiver in general is "good enough" as the heart of a home theater system.

[Lexmark3200]

"If we take your specific situation out of the equation, then with *most* receivers the answer is "yes." I think it really just depends on what speakers the receiver has to drive, and the "real" power of the receiver itself...

So if you want a blanket answer, then it would have to be "maybe."

Also, Dave, this above comment you make concerns me.....its almost like now I should be maybe considering a multi channel power amp and pre/pro instead of a receiver to power the home theater; I was trying to buy an all-in-one QUALITY solution for driving the home theater, and was suggested toward the TX-SR600 for this task. So a blanket answer of "maybe" worries me very much, that PERHAPS receivers are not good enough for home theater enthusiasts.....I just dont know if I can economically justify buying a massive power amp right now and connecting it to a pre/pro and everything that goes along with that......

[drseid]

"If we take your specific situation out of the equation, then with *most* receivers the answer is "yes." I think it really just depends on what speakers the receiver has to drive, and the "real" power of the receiver itself...

So if you want a blanket answer, then it would have to be "maybe."

Also, Dave, this above comment you make concerns me.....its almost like now I should be maybe considering a multi channel power amp and pre/pro instead of a receiver to power the home theater; I was trying to buy an all-in-one QUALITY solution for driving the home theater, and was suggested toward the TX-SR600 for this task. So a blanket answer of "maybe" worries me very much, that PERHAPS receivers are not good enough for home theater enthusiasts.....I just dont know if I can economically justify buying a massive power amp right now and connecting it to a pre/pro and everything that goes along with that......
Just for reference, while it is true that I use a separate pre/pro and actually a *couple* power amps in my HT system, I am not trying to convert you to this way of thinking, and certainly my goal was not to worry you. :-)

I fully realize everyone can't just go out and spend 5-10K+ on separates... Financial and other constraints definitely play a role for us all, and we all have to compromise in certain places to make things work for us... My belief is that your receiver can drive your Polks just fine, and I doubt you would notice much, if any improvement in sound with separates...

Now if you said that you were powering 5 Magnapan 20.1 low impedance, low sensitivity speakers with that receiver (as crazy as that may sound) *then* I would have said " definitely no." Again, it really is dependant on several factors... In your case, I think the Polks will be just fine with your current receiver, so don't lose any sleep over my non-comittal answer. I was talking in general terms, not specific to your situation. :-)

---Dave

[Lexmark3200]

Thank you Dave!

[nick4433]

You answer the question first and ask it later in your post thus making your point rather moot. Reason being you say "You'd love to have seperates" but have a receiver in a realistic world so you know somewhere that you can do better than a receiver.
Anyway, to answer your question, I have used unlimited receivers in my setup and also used a combination of seperates and am now using a receiver as a prepro with seperate amplifiers and I believe I have what could be a very good substitution to higher priced seperates. The department where a receiver lacks is power and believe me when I say this that I had flagship receivers in my setup but an amps clean 150-200W/C make a lot of difference mainly in the center channel and just makes music sound much cleaner IMHO.

[Lexmark3200]

"You answer the question first and ask it later in your post thus making your point rather moot. Reason being you say "You'd love to have seperates" but have a receiver in a realistic world so you know somewhere that you can do better than a receiver."

Well, I ASSUMED I would love to have separates --- I think you read too much into my original post; this was not meant to be taken on such a word by word literal basis --- Im just trying to "ascertain" or "figure out" if I can "be satisfied" knowing a receiver is simply "good enough" for the majority of the home theater universe, by getting some opinions of others. I wish you hadnt said "I could do better than a receiver" because now Im having visions of power amps rocking my walls instead of this receiver powering the speaker array of my system.....because I CAN do better....


"Anyway, to answer your question, I have used unlimited receivers in my setup and also used a combination of seperates and am now using a receiver as a prepro with seperate amplifiers and I believe I have what could be a very good substitution to higher priced seperates. The department where a receiver lacks is power and believe me when I say this that I had flagship receivers in my setup but an amps clean 150-200W/C make a lot of difference mainly in the center channel and just makes music sound much cleaner IMHO."

So, what are you saying essentially, that "flagship" receivers provide ENOUGH power instead of going with separates and power amps and the like? I WISH I could use this receiver I have now as a pre/pro and add an amp, but it has no pre-outs.

[nick250]

But has the question in this forum been answered, even with the suggestion of a sub.....are receivers, for the most part, GOOD ENOUGH for home cinema use or are separates recommended?

With all do respect, this question has been answered about 10 times already in this thread. So enough with your keeping asking it. To add to what has been posted so far is that the receiver/amp has very little to do with the sound you hear in your listening room, it's 95% speakers and room acoustics. That is where you should focus your obsesstion to get the best sound.

[Lexmark3200]

With all do respect, this question has been answered about 10 times already in this thread. So enough with your keeping asking it. To add to what has been posted so far is that the receiver/amp has very little to do with the sound you hear in your listening room, it's 95% speakers and room acoustics. That is where you should focus your obsesstion to get the best sound.

Well, people, because Nick here says that "enough with my keep asking it," I guess thats the be all end all of this discussion --- so being that his comment means so little to me and that the question in fact has not been answered in a definitive sense, let me get a sense again from other receiver owners aside from folks like Nick here who dont "wanna hear it no more"......

Do most of you guys find receivers are pumpin' out enough and giving enough for home theater duties where we dont really need to jump to multi-thousand-dollar separates setups? In general, whats your consensus? Anyone else?

[GMichael]

Well, people, because Nick here says that "enough with my keep asking it," I guess thats the be all end all of this discussion --- so being that his comment means so little to me and that the question in fact has not been answered in a definitive sense, let me get a sense again from other receiver owners aside from folks like Nick here who dont "wanna hear it no more"......

Do most of you guys find receivers are pumpin' out enough and giving enough for home theater duties where we dont really need to jump to multi-thousand-dollar separates setups? In general, whats your consensus? Anyone else?

Hi Lex

Yes, my receiver is plenty for HT. I believe that yours is too. Don't worry about what the volume knob says as long as it goes loud enough for you.

me

[sam9]

Forget the issue about speakers and room accoustics.

AVRs cover a huge, I mean H*U*G*E, range of capabilities and quality. Some will most certainly satidsy the needs of nearly any sane person. Some are best used as boat anchors.

The question was way too general for any definitive answer. Lawyers would love a question like that because they could begin with "Well, that depends . . ." and carry on for days. Especially if being reimbursed for billable hours.

[topspeed]

Lex, I think you might be going about this the wrong way. There's really no use in asking us if we think a receiver is good enough because we all have different associated equipment, room acoustics, and most importantly, priorities. For some people, separates is just as much about ego as it is sound quality. There's nothing wrong with this mind you, it's just a matter of priorities. For others, separates are required by their associated equipment. Consider trying to push a full set of 4 ohm Dynes with your garden variety Denon, Onkyo, or insert-your-favorite-brand-here. It just wouldn't work.

Bottom line, our opinion really doesn't mean squat. The question is whether you think your Onkyo is handling the task? What areas do you feel are lacking? If you're not sure, why not go to a dealer and demo a pre/pro and multichannel amp? Most good dealers allow home demo's and this is truly the only definitive way to determine if your receiver is "good enough." Besides, it's fun :).

Good luck.

[Lexmark3200]

Hi Lex

Yes, my receiver is plenty for HT. I believe that yours is too. Don't worry about what the volume knob says as long as it goes loud enough for you.

me

Thanks a MILLION Mike.....these are the kinds of opinions I wanted from everyone......and I trust your judgement a great deal especially after all the kind replies you make regarding my reviews!

Thanks again for putting my mind at ease......

[Lexmark3200]

"AVRs cover a huge, I mean H*U*G*E, range of capabilities and quality. Some will most certainly satidsy the needs of nearly any sane person"

This is probably more what I wanted to know, without the other remaining parts of your reply. Thank you for your assistance.

[GMichael]

Thanks a MILLION Mike.....these are the kinds of opinions I wanted from everyone......and I trust your judgement a great deal especially after all the kind replies you make regarding my reviews!

Thanks again for putting my mind at ease......

Glad to be of service.