There is a difference in Sounf Quality on Fiber Optics Cables!

[EdwardGein]

Despite what many sell appointed audio geniouses insist here, there is a difference in the sound quality of optic fiber cables or at least between glass and plastic ones. Based on someones comments on this forum, I checked out glass cables and got someone to give me a good deal on Ebay as I did need some anyway. I figured if there was no difference like alot of people insisted, so what. Well, it turns out there is a significant difference in the sound quality between glass & optic cables which I observed first hand. Strangely, for my tastes, even though the glass cable produced a significantly stronger signal with much more power in the sound, I still prefer for at least music, the generic plastic one, as the weaker signal and sound, sounded more natural to me if that makes sense. It comes down to preference. If anyone is looking for these at a good price, please contact me here & I'll even give you a
free 7 day period to return them if you're not happy. I'll probably still use them for my TV but
for my music purposes I prefer the weaker plastic one. Will sell the 6.5 foot glass optic cables for $30 each postpaid in the US.

[kexodusc]

Exactly what about the plastic or glass would make a digital signal better or worse for short lengths such as home audio?

Hershon, you've compared 2 cables, one example of glass and plastic, don't ya think it's a bit early to be stating you've found the differences?

[popolz]

if all the 0 and 1 go through.... how can the signal change in a plastic or a glass fiber??? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[EdwardGein]

if all the 0 and 1 go through.... how can the signal change in a plastic or a glass fiber??? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

First of all irregardless of what I'm saying about the cables, your 0 and 1 premise is naive though I believe it is shared by a majority of people on this board. Most if not all people professionally involved in high end audio or recording studios will tell you what is produced is more than 0 & 1's- no I don't understand the technical reasons why but people who believe you're just producing 0 & 1's clearly don't know anything about audio sound. Yes I'll go on record as saying that. I think if you'd contact most recording studio engineers as well as manufacturers of audio equipment they'll tell you the same. But I fully expect you guys to put me down for telling you the truth.

As far as the technical reasons why the cable sounds better here is what ROYPHIL345 posted on another thread:

"In my experience a glass optical cable sounds better. I compaired a modestly-priced glass cable ($30.00) from eBay to a plastic Monster Cable that costed a little more. I heard a very noticeable difference between the two. Seemed some of the 1s and 0s were getting lost in the plastic cable. Less bass and detail.

I had it explained to me that the plastic cables are quite wide and jitter is caused by light going straight through the cable and light reflected off the walls of the cable arriving at slightly different times. I was told that a better DAC would correct the jitter. My equipment is pretty modest.

The glass cables are thinner to begin with and made up of many smaller strands, so there is much less jitter. I have seen a plastic cable that was made up of many small strands. My guess is that this cable would also perform well. It was expensive though."

Based on his comments & how the seller advertised his glass cables on Ebay, I decided I should check this out. You ask me how I can say I noticed an immediate difference. Easy. Unlike a bunch of people here who are to scared of what their peers think, I'm at least willing to go on record with a statement. I played the same CD, same tracks back and forth with the different cables and same settings , and I noticed a night and day difference. The glass cables had a stronger, more pronounced powerful sound, but for my own personal tastes, I prefer a less in my face type sound.

[N. Abstentia]

Then again, 2 months ago you swore up and down that a $199 All-In-One JVC system was the best sounding thing on the planet at any price and you called anyone who disagreed a "f*cking moron" becuase you knew better and we didn't know squat. That was about the time you were banned the first time.

Such idiocy tends to call into question your knowledge of the subject.

Your optical cables sound identical because it's optical. The difference is, you WANT to hear a difference. If you really gave a crap, you'd get better speakers.

[EdwardGein]

As usual you're distorting and taking things out of context. What my brother Hershon said at an earlier time was that his JVC RX-DV31SL when combined with Orb Audio speakers produced the best sound he ever heard- the JVC retailed for $450 not your $199 figure & that when he tried High end receivers and DVD/CDplayers they did not sound as good with the speakers. Finally he did notice significant improvement in the sound when he combined a Denon 3801 receiver, a Harmon Kardon 31 DVD player and an optical cable together & he said as much. At the time many people on this board stated categorically, I don't remember if you were one of the people, that Hershon was limited by his speakers which he loved and that no receiver or DVD/CD player would change the sound so much. Well they were wrong and Hershon had a witness to this.

In regards to the 0's and 1's argument, discussing this with you is like trying to discuss things with the OJ jury- even if they saw him do the crime on video they still would aquit and say there was not enough evidence to prove his guilt.

[N. Abstentia]

Uhh..yeah. Just how many 'alter egos' do you have?

I'm starting to worry about your mental state there, Phil. You might want to lay off the crystal meth.

I'm fairly well convinced you're just a simple troll by now. Nobody can actually be as stupid as thinking there is a difference in sound of a beam of light that transmits a digital signal. Anybody with half a brain knows that digital has two states...on or off. There is no inbetween. Either the signal gets there or it doesn't. There is no 'some 0's get there before other 0's' like you think.

So, you either:
1) Are a troll and just like to start these pointless arguments because you need attention.
2) Have no grasp on reality.

Either way, you and 'your brother Phil' are a danger to society. Which of your multiple personalites will be responding next? Your Daddy Jacko? Remind me to keep my kids away from you.

[cam]

Hey ed/hersh/gein, one thing that I have found out that makes a dramatic improvement in your system that I thought I would share with you and your daddy Jacko, hook up your entire system to the lower plug in of your receptacle. That's where all the power is because electricity is so heavy that it produces more power to the lower plug in. If you use the upper plug in with that denon 3801 then you would be lucky if you got 8 watts x 7 all channels driven, while the lower plug in will give you about 575 watts x 7 all channels driven. Trust me, this is totaly true. Tell as many people as you can. Now get to it.

[N. Abstentia]

Adding to that, you want to make sure your house wiring comes DOWN the wall from the celing and not UP from the floor to the receptacle. Because as everyone knows, electricity flows downhill and if the wire goes down from the ceiling all the juice pools up at the receptacle and you get better power. Think of it as getting that last sweet-ass chicken wing that was at the bottom of the pile and has been sitting in the sauce the whole time soaking it up.

[EdwardGein]

To quote Mr. T, I pity the fools.

[N. Abstentia]

Despite what many sell appointed audio geniouses insist here,

Next time you want to bless us with your endless wisdom and superior intellect, learn how to spell first.

[EdwardGein]

Next time you want to bless us with your endless wisdom and superior intellect, learn how to spell first.

Rather mispell than deliberately distort the truth!

[kexodusc]

Hey ed/hersh/gein, one thing that I have found out that makes a dramatic improvement in your system that I thought I would share with you and your daddy Jacko, hook up your entire system to the lower plug in of your receptacle. That's where all the power is because electricity is so heavy that it produces more power to the lower plug in. If you use the upper plug in with that denon 3801 then you would be lucky if you got 8 watts x 7 all channels driven, while the lower plug in will give you about 575 watts x 7 all channels driven. Trust me, this is totaly true. Tell as many people as you can. Now get to it.
Good advice cam, but if he really wants to minimize the crosstalk and maximize performance, he should plug the receiver in to its own auxiliary outlets and run it in passive mode. The 3801 has 480 + watt power supply, more than enough to run the receiver...

[shokhead]

Next time you want to bless us with your endless wisdom and superior intellect, learn how to spell first.

Dont worry about someones spelling,please.

[N. Abstentia]

Well normally I DON'T worry about someone's spelling as I don't bother to correct my mistakes on here either.

HOWEVER, in this case I find it freaking hilarious that this guy is here trying to tell us how he's so much smarter than everyone on this board and everyone but him is an idiot...and he can't even spell 'genius'. Plus, it's not like it's a typo..every time he explains how smart he is he misspells 'genius' (this isn't the first time he's been on his high horse...I guess 'high' is the operative word here!).

Don't you see the irony here?

[GMichael]

A transmission method employing a sequence of discrete, distinct pulses that represent the binary digits 0 and 1 to indicate specific information, in contrast to the continuous signal of analog.

[agtpunx40]

"Most if not all people professionally involved in high end audio or recording studios will tell you what is produced is more than 0 & 1's- no I don't understand the technical reasons why but people who believe you're just producing 0 & 1's clearly don't know anything about audio sound."

it is just 1s and 0s. You do know that right. There's no ifs, ands, buts, or anything else. That's what digital means. One component sends a series of signals, in the case of an optical cable flashes of light, signifying 1s and 0s. These ones and zeros are then interpreted as a sound wave by what is essentially a small computer in your reciever. All your reciever or pre gets from any digital source is a series of 1s and 0s. In fact, digital material, such as cds and dvds, is already just a series of 1s and 0s, in the form of small pits on the disk. Any data or programing in a computer is, at a very basic level, interpreted by the computer as a series of 1s and 0s, switch on or switch off. Even numbers are written in binary. The ONLY way the signal could change is if the 1s and 0s are somehow changed. Is it possible that a few ones and zeros could be changed? I guess. Now, I personally don't see why glass vs plastic would make a difference, but that's another matter.

[shokhead]

Well normally I DON'T worry about someone's spelling as I don't bother to correct my mistakes on here either.

HOWEVER, in this case I find it freaking hilarious that this guy is here trying to tell us how he's so much smarter than everyone on this board and everyone but him is an idiot...and he can't even spell 'genius'. Plus, it's not like it's a typo..every time he explains how smart he is he misspells 'genius' (this isn't the first time he's been on his high horse...I guess 'high' is the operative word here!).

Don't you see the irony here?

Nope! Imo,i think its rude.

[Jim Clark]

even though the glass cable produced a significantly stronger signal with much more power in the sound, I still prefer for at least music, the generic plastic one, as the weaker signal and sound,

Well, spelling and innuendo aside, what I'm curious about is your above statement. Just how exactly did you measure signal strength? If in a sighted personal trial with massive time lag to swap out cables you decided you preferred one over the other I still wouldn't place much faith in your conclusion, but I wouldn't argue it. It's making blanket statements suggesting there was some sort of scientific methodology leading to a factual conclusion that causes me concern.

jc

[N. Abstentia]

Nope! Imo,i think its rude.

Oh well. Too bad you don't have a sense of humor.

FYI it's not nearly as rude (or childish) as YOU butting in with your whining. 'whhaaa..you shoudn't correct people's spelling..whaaaaa'.

If you can't grasp the joke, don't bother replying to it.

[EdwardGein]

[QUOTE=Jim Clark]Well, spelling and innuendo aside, what I'm curious about is your above statement. Just how exactly did you measure signal strength? If in a sighted personal trial with massive time lag to swap out cables you decided you preferred one over the other I still wouldn't place much faith in your conclusion, but I wouldn't argue it. It's making blanket statements suggesting there was some sort of scientific methodology leading to a factual conclusion that causes me concern."

What is so difficult and hard to grasp about this. I connect 2 fiber optic cables, one glass & the other plastic, to my receiver & DVD player, don't alter the settings and play the same CD tracks back to back, each time plugging in and unplugging the 2 fiber optic cables. I immediately notice a night and day difference in the sound- to make an analogy like the difference between someone whispering to you and that same person screaming at you. Most people would notice the difference between a whisper and a scream. Likewise on these cables the volume goes up drastically, the sound is more powerful and more in your face. I don't know what is so difficult to grasp how I have the audacity to state the obvious on this board. Personally, I prefer the more subtle sounds of the plastic fiber optics cable, but that is my taste only, and I may be preferring that simply because I'm use to that sound.

[N. Abstentia]

You've got some serious equipment problems going on there, Hershon. There should be NO difference between the 'sound' of the optical cables.

I think you're a troll. If you were actually this anal you would have already upgraded the power cords on your equipment. Now THAT would improve the sound quality.

[EdwardGein]

You've got some serious equipment problems going on there, Hershon. There should be NO difference between the 'sound' of the optical cables.
I think you're a troll. If you were actually this anal you would have already upgraded the power cords on your equipment. Now THAT would improve the sound quality.

You're the ignorant one and I think you do more harm than good to people who listen to you here for the most part. The thing that gets me is you make blanket statements telling people
that their claims are totally wrong and they're not hearing what they hear, without you being there to witness it, which is total ignorance and stupidity on your part. Your the troll as you seem to delight in trying to debunk peoples claims without knowing what your talking about.

No there are no equipment problems. You just are the most ridiculously close minded person I've ever encountered.

[N. Abstentia]

Okay, I think I'll just say this:

You're on your FIRST system that uses a digital optical cable. I was on MY first around 8 years ago. Since then I've installed at least a thousand of them. Who's ignorant now? You've seen ONE.

Up until recently you said we were all ignorant because we didn't believe your $199 JVC amp/receiver/dvd player/toaster was the best sounding system on the planet. Then you got a $300 receiver and realized your JVC sounded like crap, just like we all said. What makes you think you're not wrong yet again?

I guess everyone in the audio industry are 'closed minded morons' and you're doing something that no human has been able to do...defy the basic laws of physics. Either that, or you're just drunk again.

[shokhead]

Oh well. Too bad you don't have a sense of humor.

FYI it's not nearly as rude (or childish) as YOU butting in with your whining. 'whhaaa..you shoudn't correct people's spelling..whaaaaa'.

If you can't grasp the joke, don't bother replying to it.

Wow,if your not a joke then you've got a problem. Childish? Better go look in the mirror hadnt you? Geez.

[N. Abstentia]

Wow,if your not a joke then you've got a problem. Childish? Better go look in the mirror hadnt you? Geez.

News flash - nobody voted you 'netcop' of this forum.

[shokhead]

They didnt?

[Jim Clark]

What is so difficult and hard to grasp about this.

Well for me it would start with volume changing drastically between two different optical cables. If you could give me one semi-plausible reason why some pulses of light from the same source are louder (not just louder, drastically louder) than others based on a cable you would be helping me get a handle on this. You know what-never mind. Happy Fourth.

jc

[EdwardGein]

Well for me it would start with volume changing drastically between two different optical cables. If you could give me one semi-plausible reason why some pulses of light from the same source are louder (not just louder, drastically louder) than others based on a cable you would be helping me get a handle on this. You know what-never mind. Happy Fourth. jc

My general problem with this web site- yes it has been helpful to me in the past I admit, and this isn't personally directed at you, is, people aren't as willing to accept things as fact even if they are, unless someone can explain why technically things happen. I'm sorry, if someone like NAbsentia, I'll give him his due here, tells me there is a free online program called DVD Shrink and it will enable you to make a backup DVD of a commercial DVD, all I care about is if it works, not why it works.

I've listed below in its entirety the complete description & endorsements of one of the people selling fiber glass optic cables on Ebay. Maybe that will help you out. Again, irregardless of whether you agree with this or not, if all optic cables sounded the same there would not be a market and huge price differential on them if they all produced the same results as contrary to what some of you think, not everyone with money is an idiot and people do not just spend $400 for a pair of optic cables just because they can, if it produces the same sound as a $10 Radio Shack one.

FROM EBAY SELLER:

THIS BUY IT NOW LISTING IS FOR MY NEW 2 METER (6.56ft)GLASS TOSLINK WHICH FEATURES 280 STRANDS OF HIGH PURITY GLASS OPTICAL FIBER

READ BELOW WHAT MY CUSTOMERS ARE SAYING ABOUT THESE PREMIUM GLASS TOSLINKS!

DID YOU KNOW THE WEAKEST LINK IN YOUR HOME ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM IS MOST LIKELY THE PLASTIC FIBER TOSLINK CABLE YOU ARE USING!!!

EXPERIENCE THE DRAMATIC DIFFERENCE A GLASS FIBER OPTIC CABLE WILL MAKE IN YOUR HOME ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM!!!

Premium Glass fiber optical cable is the highest quality digital optical cable available. Unlike most consumer grade optical cable that use plastic fiber optics, this cable uses real glass fiber optics and mirror polished ends for the highest possible quality data transmission. This cables ensures the least signal loss and least jitter possible.

The series utilize glass fiber optic conductors and precision connectors to reduce digital jitter for a dramatic upgrade over conventional toslink optical cables, which utilize plastic fiber optic conductors. Glass fiber optic transmission allows superior high resolution, amazing clarity reproduction, ultra spatial effects and dynamic impact. It's ideal for use with DVD, DVD Audio, SACD, CD, D-VHS, game console, S/PDIF, Dolby DigitalR and DTSR professional audio applications.

Features:

High purity medical grade glass fiber optic core

Allows highest resolution digital audio transmission

Widest bandwidth transmission and frequency response

Tuned spectral attenuation for optimum signal admittance and low loss

High velocity of propagation for lower time smear

Precision polished TOSLINK core end for wider bandwidth with lower insertion loss

Multi-sheilding protection from damage and interference

Spring loaded alloy tip for best possible position and closer lens contact

Automatically in focus for accurate data transfer with minimal loss

Precision molded plug and durable 24k gold plated plug ends

Cable length: 2 Meter (6.56 ft)

All Glass Toslink Cables are new, finest quality in factory sealed poly bag.

Here are just a few of the many positive comments my customers have said about these fabulous Glass Toslinks!

Hi Stuart,

I just wanted to write to say "Thank you" for your excellent cable. Upon the first 10 seconds of listening to music with the glass optical cable hooked up in place of my regular digital cable (the Stereovox HDXV), it was clear that something special was happening. Bass and spatial cues were revealed with startling vivacity. A slight electronic edge, or brightness, that I used to hear outlining the upper harmonics of notes, which was the one weakness of my system that broke the illusion of listening to live music, was now banished. In its absence, fine musical elements like the leading edge of notes, and the tone and texture of its sustain and decay were rendered with precision and clean, unforced, natural detail. As an admittedly jaded audiophile and music lover, I tried this cable on a lark, but I can scarcely believe how good it truly is. It is not merely "good for its price". It is excellent, without equivocation. It delivers all of the audiophile goodness that guys like me crave, at a most un-audiophile (down to earth) price. It therefore must rank as one of the all-time audio bargins and best finds.

Best regards,
David

I received the cable today. Excellent cable!! Very revealing I cant imagine a better value out there for three times the price that would give that much of an improvement over other cables. I am very happy I would recommend your cable to anyone out there who uses an optical cable.

Thank you Stephen

Hi Stuart - Thanks for getting my order right out. The cable arrived today and man, it sounds great. It's a major improvement over the plastic-fiber Radio Shack cable I have been using. The sound is dramatically clearer, with much more detail and dynamics. I was, of course, expecting some improvement... but nothing of this magnitude. And it cost just ten bucks more than the Radio Shack cable. I'm really amazed.

David

Hi Stuart, I was using a Purple Harmony Toslink cable which i thought was better than most. Bought from Dick Smith Electronics. I thought it sounded quite good, but found it did lack excitement and oomph (that's after I heard other, more expensive systems). When I changed the toslink to the Glass Toslink, it was totally amazing! It sounded sweet. Everything was tighter and very punchy. The details of the guitar strings and the other instruments in the background could be heard - crystal clear! You really need to hear the difference to believe it! It was definately worth the investment. I'm glad I found your Auction and chose to go with the Glass Toslink. Cheers Kev

hi very pleased with the glass toslink cable.. I was using a high end coaxial cable. now notice more depth definition , and overall more accurate sound.. very pleased.. thank you again, not only for a very good product but for the professoional manner in which the transaction was completed.. my regards.. Jake

Hello Stuart- I was using a high end Monster Cable (RCA) purchased several years ago. I upgraded my receiver and went to a dvd/cd player and decided to use an optical connection. The improvement was quite noticeable, especially the highs. Overall, I'm quite impressed with the Glass Toslink. Thanks again for an excellent product. Have a good one. Sincerely, Jason

Well all I can say is WOW. I was using standard Monster Cable crap. This made a huge different. The dynamic of the audio is so much more brilliant. The soundstage has also gotten wider.

I can weigh in on the glass toslink v. digital RCA cable by saying that I A/B'd the Audioquest Optilink 5 with their comparable digital cable and the result was not even close. The glass toslink was significantly better on every criterion, and was significantly louder as well (we volume matched the outputs for the test, BTW). I bought two toslinks and replaced my digital cable!

I originally was using the Monster Interlink 100. It had deeper bass, but the mids and highs are were not as detailed. I also purchased the Wireworld Supernova III (glass toslink) cable prior to the order from you. There was no sonic difference between these and the cables I ordered from you. But I did notice that intermittently there were clicks and pops with the Supernova III's. Especially when using the ABS (bit splitting) function from my Apogee PSX-100 Special Edition A/D/A converter! I choose to use your cables as primary and the Supernova III's as backups.

[agtpunx40]

it's not that you have to understand how everything happens. What you are claiming, however, is very difficult to understand, since it doesn't seem to make any sense given how the cable works. The the volume of a digital source is encoded in the same 1s and 0s that the rest of the audio wave is encoded as, changing the volume would involve a corruption of those bits, it wouldn't really be possible for a cable to pick out and alter those individual bits. The reviews by the ebay seller may not even be real, although they could be. (especially considering that the seller lists sacd and dvda as two of the potential uses, and if I'm not mistaken, these formats only use analoge outs so you can't copy it digitally)

"Again, irregardless of whether you agree with this or not, if all optic cables sounded the same there would not be a market and huge price differential on them if they all produced the same results as contrary to what some of you think, not everyone with money is an idiot and people do not just spend $400 for a pair of optic cables just because they can"

As for this, you don't actually think this is true do you? People pay hundreds of dollars on a pair of jeans just because they can. They don't go on any easier, or last any longer than your average pair of levis. People buy very expensive shiny rocks just because they can. Does an expensive marble chess set in some way make chess easier or better than with a cheap set? The reason there is a large variety and price differential for cables is because people will buy them, and nothing else. That's why anything is produced. If there is a huge difference between cables, but no one would buy the expensive one, it would not be produced, while if there is no difference, but lots of people are willing to pay lots of money, it will be. Just because someone is willing to charge you alot for something doesn't make it better. That's just silly. I'm not making a statement about cables, just this silly logic you're using.

[EdwardGein]

In regards to my logic, I still maintain that some people with money are not idiots & do have brains and those brains helped them get that money, like Marc Cuban who owns the Dallas Mavericks. I can't see someone like Cuban (I don't know if he does) spend extra money on Optic Cables, if they will accomplish the exact same thing as a cheap Radio Shack one.
In the examples you're sighting, yeah I've seen differences in $40 jeans and expensive designer jeans- not saying they're worth the money but there are differences. Same thing with optic cables. There are differences.

Again, music that is coming out is more than 0's and 1's.

[N. Abstentia]

Again, music that is coming out is more than 0's and 1's.

There is NO music coming out of a digital cable, it's a RAW UNDECODED BITSTREAM of 1's and 0's.

RAW.

UNDECODED.

If you could amplify it (like a preamp signal in an RCA cable) you know what you would hear? NOTHING. IT'S A RAW BITSTREAM.

It has to be decoded before it can be turned into music. You know how when you play a record on a turntable you can put your ear next to the needle and actually hear the music? Digital does not work like that.

And as far as your Ebay shill ad...wow. Imagine the guy selling these cables trying to convice everybody that they are better. The guy is buying the cables for $3 and selling them for $50, of course he's going to lie and say the cables are better. He probably even wrote all the 'testimonials' himself...and you fell for it. Congrats. Think about how you got ripped off before you call someone else an idiot.

[EdwardGein]

[QUOTE=N. Abstentia-"And as far as your Ebay shill ad...wow. Imagine the guy selling these cables trying to convice everybody that they are better. The guy is buying the cables for $3 and selling them for $50, of course he's going to lie and say the cables are better. He probably even wrote all the 'testimonials' himself...and you fell for it. Congrats. Think about how you got ripped off before you call someone else an idiot.[/QUOTE]


I didn't put a shill bid for this and I wasn't ripped off for this. You do get a stronger pronounced sound on this and in fact I'm using the cables for 2 of my TV's. For my CD/DVD sound because I'm use to a weaker less powerful signal I'm sticking to my $40 audio quest optic cables.

:D :D :D :D