New hdtv, aspect ratio problem (I know there will still be black bars sometimes)

[agtpunx40]

Just got a new tv, ran my avia setup and don't know if I have a problem. When I have the TV on normal mode (as opposed to the theater wide modes which stretch the image), I get grey bars on the sides, so about a 4:3 size image with black bars on the top and bottom to make the resulting image widescreen. It's a Toshiba CRT 51 H 84. I have the dvd player set to output to a widescreen tv so I don't think that's the problem. When watching a dvd in normal mode, it should just have black bars on the top and bottom, shouldn''t it? Am I missing something in the manual and menus, or is this how it's supposed to be? Any suggestions. I know Sir Terrance recently bought a similar model, maybe you would know if I forgot something?

quick edit just to clarify: when in the theaterwide mode, it doesn't fill the whole screen, there are still black bars as there should be in wider aspect movies.

[EdwardGein]

While I'm having trouble understanding your questions/concerns in simple English, maybe this will help. When renting DVD's and playing them on my HDTV. on more than one occassion I have rented a DVD marked widescreen but it is still shown in a letterbox format with some kind of border instead of occupying the whole screen. If this bothers you, you can then try to use your TV's picture format settings to expand, stretch, zoom, or whatever the picture but in all likelyhood it will make viewing worse for you because you will probably notice some distortion.

If you don't do this automatically, everytime you rent a DVD go to the picture/audio settings on the DVD's menu assuming it has this) and set it the way you want.

[agtpunx40]

Yea, I guess I didn't explain very well. Let me try again. This seems to be with every movie I've tried (only three or four so far). There are thick grey bars on the sides of the screen. This leaves a box covering the entire height of the screen, that looks like about 4:3, and this block displays the movie much as it would on a 4:3 tv, black bars on the top and bottom. So the picture is only being displayed on this smaller center portion of the TV. It's as if the TV is recieving a signal for a 4:3 TV, but like I said, I set the dvd player to output to a 16:9 widescreen tv. It said my MS Paint file was too large so here's an ascii drawing maybe that will clear it up a little?

[----------------------------------------------------]
[ [ ] ]
[grey [ movie image ] grey]
[ [ with black bars at ] ]
[ [ top and bottom ] ]
[----------------------------------------------------]

sorry, that didn't come out right, oh well

[Quagmire]

Just got a new tv, ran my avia setup and don't know if I have a problem. When I have the TV on normal mode (as opposed to the theater wide modes which stretch the image), I get grey bars on the sides, so about a 4:3 size image with black bars on the top and bottom to make the resulting image widescreen. It's a Toshiba CRT 51 H 84. I have the dvd player set to output to a widescreen tv so I don't think that's the problem. When watching a dvd in normal mode, it should just have black bars on the top and bottom, shouldn''t it? Am I missing something in the manual and menus, or is this how it's supposed to be? Any suggestions. I know Sir Terrance recently bought a similar model, maybe you would know if I forgot something?

quick edit just to clarify: when in the theaterwide mode, it doesn't fill the whole screen, there are still black bars as there should be in wider aspect movies.
Just to clarify a few things:

I'm not familiar with your TV set but I am assuming it is a widescreen set (16:9 aspect ratio). Does your TV do this with ALL widescreen movies or just some? There is more than one method of transferring a widescreen movie to disc and they are not equal. If a movie is "Anamorphic" widescreen it is said to be "enhanced for widescreen TV's"; a phrase you will see printed on the back of many DVD cases. With the DVD player and TV properly set up, the movie image will display these types of widescreen movies all the way to each side of the screen without black bars on either side; although there is often still black bars above and below the image portion of the picture. The other way of transfering a widescreen movie to disc is akin to painting the widescreen image, including the black bars above and below, into a 4:3 space. These types of movies will look like widescreen or letterboxed movies on a regular 4:3 TV set but they're really not. When you display one of these types of movies on a 16:9 set it places this whole image into the space normally occupied by a 4:3 picture, thus creating the black bars on either side of the letterboxed image as well as above and below. In order to get these types of movies to fill the whole screen, side to side, you will have to use some type of stretch, zoom, or fill mode that you normally use to do this with standard 4:3 movies. Although most of the movies being released as widescreen are now Anamorphic Widescreen, there are a surprising number of the other types out there and they are not limited to low budget films either. "Titanic" and the first "Mission Impossible" movie are just two that I can think of right away with these inferior widescreen transfers.

If your TV isn't doing this with ALL of your widescreen movies, chances are you are just coming accrossed a few Non-anamorphic widescreen films.

Q

[EdwardGein]

The easiest thing to do is to rent a DVD labeled widescreen that is also full screen. Off the top of my head I don't know any, one way or the other, but maybe someone here does. Then rent it and if it is not full screen on your TV then you know your TV or DVD settings need to be changed.

I'd also double check you settings regularly as several times I've watched DVD's that I've had to expand on Composite 1 Input and forgot to change the setting back to standard when I was done watching.

[agtpunx40]

it's not an anamorphic problem, I just had the last lord of the rings in there and it did the same thing. It seems to be doing it with everything I've tried. It's like the TV is trying to put widescreen images into a 4:3 box on a widescreen tv. Maybe I'll call up toshiba and see if they can advise me. If anybody has any other ideas, I'm still open.

[EdwardGein]

Go to your HD Discovery channel. That should be shown as full widescreen TV, If its not you're in trouble to begin with. Then put on a regular TV channel- that should be shown as a 4:3.

Now lets move on to your DVD input. Go to menu What is the size set on? It should be 16:9

Now go on to your DVD player. What is the size or default set on their? Again should be 16:9

I would double check and bring your Lord of the rings to the nearest HiFi stores and then have them play it and see if its full screen.

If all that fails, maybe God is giving you a message and give your DVD player and TV set away to charity. :p :p :p :D

[agtpunx40]

update:
OK, now it seems that the dvd player is sending a "squeezed" signal to the tv. When I use the "full picture size mode" which the manual says is for "16:9 source squeezed (4:3) program" it looks right. There are small black bars on top and bottom, which is expected for many movies but the proportion looks right and everything. When in "normal" mode, it looks compressed horizontally, and has the grey bars on the sides as described above, so I think that is the issue. Although, the way it is, in "full picture size mode" it looks great. Is there any real reason or disadvantage to my dvd player sending the TV a "squeezed" signal as the TV manual calls it? The DVD manual doesn't say anything about that. Is this just the wa some dvd players work or something? The picture looks really clean, so it doesn't seem like I'm losing any resolution. Still another week or two before I get HD, but can't wait. Thanks for all the help so far.

[Wireworm5]

In my dvd player settings I have 4:3 output setting. It's either full or normal. I have mine set to 'full' when I switched in to 'normal' its seems to look more or less as you describe. Also check your tv setting there are a ton there as well. On my tv I have to set it to what the input signal is.
Good Luck

[EdwardGein]

You should have a "standard" 16:9 setting That should be your default When a 4:3 DVD or TV show is shown at this setting it does not fill your entire sntire screen. When you go to discovery channel HD the screen is full. When you play a DVD that was recorded in full widescreen that will fill the screen. As I said, your best test is, bring the DVD that your not happy with to your closest hifi store and see how it looks there.

[edtyct]

If I'm reading this problem correctly, your TV, which is set to normal, is trumping your DVD player, which is set to widescreen. "Normal" is a standard term for 4:3, even if the TV using the term is 16:9. You should have your TV programmed to accept anamorphic signals by default. You don't mention whether you're getting the DVD feeds via component or HDMI/DVI. If the latter, films in widescreen letterbox that are not anamorphic may display with bars all around them (pillar- and letterbox), in which case you'd do well to display them via component so that you can retain zoom functions. Hope I didn't miss your point.
Ed

[agtpunx40]

I'm getting the dvd feed through component. The "normal mode" on my tv says that it just displays the signal it's given with not stretching or fitting. The picture in the manual, for example, shows a few possible pics it could be displaying, one filling the whole screen, one with the thinner black bars on top and bottom, one with grey bars on the side displaying a 4:3 image, and one as I seem to have, showing grey bars on the sides, and a 4:3 box in the middle with black bars on the top and bottom. This image seems to be compressed horizontally, and when I use the "full picture size mode" which the manual says is for "16:9 source squeezed (4:3) program" it displays correctly. The proportion is back to normal. I can't imagine that I'm losing resolution, because it really looks pretty clear. I watched most of Return of the King yesterday and I didn't notice any stretching or lack of clarity, so I think this is what I'm supposed to be doing, and that this is just the way the dvd player is sending the signal for some reason. I'm getting the HDTV box soon, so we'll see. I'm really happy with the picture I've seen so far, I'm just sort of worried I'm missing out a little. I'll double check the TV, as ed mentioned, but I haven't been able to find any setting I'm missing. The TV manual says you can't use the "full" mode I'm using for 1080i so I guess I'll find out once I get the HDTV box

[EdwardGein]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but right now you're saying you have an HD TV but are not actually receiving HD TV signals and therefore are not actually seeing TV Shows- am I interpreting that correctly? If that is the case, that will in all likelyhood explain some of the problems you are having or lead up to your problems causing more to multiply by making adjustments for problems that didn't exist. Maybe I'm totally misinterpreting everything because it makes no sense for you to spend big bucks on an HDTV and then not pay to get Cable or Satellite HD Service.

When I got my HDTV it took about 4 days till I actually had the cable company put in my HD Receiver (for which you also need a decent set of component cables for which the cable company doesn't give you- they give you cheap ones). During those 4 days when I watched TV the picture was not as good (I was watching out of my then standard cable connection) & I obviously couldn't get HD CHannel receptions- on Time Warner they are in the 1100 channel series. When the cable guy came out, he then made whatever settings he made to my HD TV on its input channel which was Composite 2.

The bottom line of what I'm trying to tell you is if somehow you're not hooked up to HD reception in the first place everything will seem distorted to you in the first place and will cause you to make further errors when trying to correct things pertsaining to DVD. If someone is actually installing HD Reception for you, let themcheck on your DVD.

[edtyct]

At the risk of adding another layer of misapprehension, a 2.35:1 widescreen, or letterbox, film mastered at 4:3 when shown in full-screen, anamorphic mode will display as you've described and so will a 2.35:1 anamorphic film mistakinly sent to a 4:3 mode, which cannot unsqueeze it. Any picture that doesn't use the full complement of scan lines or pixels on the screen is losing resolution or incapable of taking advantage of it. However, if the resulting display is small, you wouldn't necessarily notice; the eyes wouldn't be able to resolve the difference.

Ed

[agtpunx40]

The HD box is coming in a few days, right now, it's just dvds. And I've tried a number of dvds, all of which are anamorphic. The dvd player is definatly set to send the signal to a 16:9 tv, and the tv, as far as I can tell, doesn't really have a mode that would be interfering with the signal getting passed properly. The "natural picture size" mode just shows whatever the tv is sent. Basically my tv is displaying the same image when it is set to 16:9 tv shape, and 4:3 letterbox tv shape, only when set to 16:9 tv, the image is compressed horizontally, so it looks right when the tv is set to "full picture size (for 16:9 source squeezed (4:3) program)".

[agtpunx40]

just got off the phone with toshiba, and the customer service rep seemed pretty sure it's the dvd player, I guess I'll exchange it and find out tomorrow.

[edtyct]

The "natural picture size" mode just shows whatever the tv is sent. Basically my tv is displaying the same image when it is set to 16:9 tv shape, and 4:3 letterbox tv shape, only when set to 16:9 tv, the image is compressed horizontally, so it looks right when the tv is set to "full picture size (for 16:9 source squeezed (4:3) program)".
agtpunx, I wrote this before I saw your last message. Skip to the last paragraph for what may be the most relevant comment:

Do you mind my pursuing this for a moment? Forgive me if I'm really confusing the issue. I can't help thinking that a simple solution is lurking somewhere. The natural picture size mode is the one that puzzles me; I'm not familiar with it. I don't understand what it accomplishes. You're saying now that it isn't the same thing as "normal," right? I could understand if they reduced to the same thing, since "natural picture size" might then mean a pristine 4:3 image that hadn't undergone any zooming to fit the widescreen format. If this mode "shows whatever the TV is sent" in a more general sense, however, then it apparently isn't working. Let's say that your DVD player, set to 16x9, sends a nonanamorphic widescreen film to your TV while it's in widescreen anamorphic mode. To show what's sent to it correctly, the TV would have to flip out of anamorphic widescreen and into normal (4:3), for you to zoom or leave alone as you see fit. Or if it sends an anamorphic film, it would automatically show it in its unsqueezed glory if the TV were in a 4:3 mode. Is that how it's supposed to work?

I'm familiar with Toshiba 's traditional five modes, which I believe are on your TV: normal (for 4:3), full (anamorphic 16:9), and the three TWs for filling the screen with a nonanamorphic picture--one for uniform zooms, one for zooms that leave the center intact, and one that zooms mostly horizontally. If your TV is in the full mode, then an anamorphic film sent from a DVD player correctly set for 16x9 will display the film correctly without anything else needing to be done. At 1.78:1, it will fill the screen; at a wider aspect ratio (like 2.35: 1), it will leave black bars at the top and bottom, which cannot be eliminated. If this isn't happening, then the TV, for whatever reason, is in the wrong mode, the DVD player is sending the wrong format. Does the DVD player break down its options further within the basic 16x9 setting? Which player is it? How does it perform with nonanamorphic material?

Ed

[agtpunx40]

Ed, after typing this whole post out, I think I misread your post. You are saying that for an anamorphic movie, it is supposed to be in the full mode? This does not seem to be what the manual said, as described above. If it is though, it wouldn't surprise me. Does that mean that the normal mode is only for 1080i (which I should be getting soon)? Really, it's not the small black bars at the top and bottom, I completely understand what is going on there, people film in different aspect ratios and such. It's the grey bars that reduce the image to 4:3. If this is the case, then my manual is awful. It in no way says that this is the case, only that the full mode is "for source squeezed (4:3) program." Why would the video signal from my dvd player fit this description? That is an honest question, I don't understand. All the manual says is that 1080i can't be displayed using the full picture size. If I read you right, that explains all of this except the manual and the CSR.

Ed, after typing this whole thing out, I think I misread your post. You are saying that for an anamorphic movie, it is supposed to be in the full mode? This does not seem to be what the manual said, as described above. If it is though, it wouldn't surprise me. Does that mean that the normal mode is only for 1080i (I should be getting HD soon))? Really, it's not the small black bars at the top and bottom, I completely understand what is going on there, people film in different aspect ratios and such. It's the grey bars that reduce the image to 4:3. If this is the case, then my manual is awful. It in no way says that this is the case, only that the full mode is "for source squeezed (4:3) program." Why would the video signal from my dvd player fit this description? That is an honest question, I don't understand. All the manual says is that 1080i can't be displayed using the full picture size. If I read you right, that explains all of this except the manual and the CSR.

[s dog]

or
Ed, after typing this whole post out, I think I misread your post. You are saying that for an anamorphic movie, it is supposed to be in the full mode? This does not seem to be what the manual said, as described above. If it is though, it wouldn't surprise me. Does that mean that the normal mode is only for 1080i (which I should be getting soon)? Really, it's not the small black bars at the top and bottom, I completely understand what is going on there, people film in different aspect ratios and such. It's the grey bars that reduce the image to 4:3. If this is the case, then my manual is awful. It in no way says that this is the case, only that the full mode is "for source squeezed (4:3) program." Why would the video signal from my dvd player fit this description? That is an honest question, I don't understand. All the manual says is that 1080i can't be displayed using the full picture size. If I read you right, that explains all of this except the manual and the CSR.

Ed, after typing this whole thing out, I think I misread your post. You are saying that for an anamorphic movie, it is supposed to be in the full mode? This does not seem to be what the manual said, as described above. If it is though, it wouldn't surprise me. Does that mean that the normal mode is only for 1080i (I should be getting HD soon))? Really, it's not the small black bars at the top and bottom, I completely understand what is going on there, people film in different aspect ratios and such. It's the grey bars that reduce the image to 4:3. If this is the case, then my manual is awful. It in no way says that this is the case, only that the full mode is "for source squeezed (4:3) program." Why would the video signal from my dvd player fit this description? That is an honest question, I don't understand. All the manual says is that 1080i can't be displayed using the full picture size. If I read you right, that explains all of this except the manual and the CSR.
Agtpunx40 i have a 57'' crt h 84 hd toshiba tv , As far as i know the normal setting is for watching 4:3 stuff only .Other words it is for the guy who wants to watch 4:3 tv with out stretching it, stuff like movies on vcr tape or non high def programing ,know matter what you feed it , it will be 4:3 because that is all the normal setting can do. I THINK IM KNOW EXPERT, but that is why the grey bars are on the sides. I dont think you can make them go away know matter what you do ,I would not even use this setting because it may cause burn in on your screen ,that is why toshiba went from black bars to grey bars, grey does not burn in as bad as black. that should tell you somethiong right there , And btw why would you what to use this setting at all unless you dont like stretching 4:3 stuff ,As for my opinion anything played on a wide sreen tv besides hd and wide screen dvds looks really bad. What i do is watch all my standered tv on my old 50'' standred toshiba tv and save the hd tv for dvds and hd ,btw you got a really go deal on that tv, hell i gave $ 1800.00 for a 57'' I hope this helps you out and if my info is wrong im very sorry . One other way to look at it , it is like makeing your wide screen tv a standred tv in this mode. I cant wait till every thing on the planet go hd then we wont have to deal with all these darn settings

[s dog]

Ed, after typing this whole post out, I think I misread your post. You are saying that for an anamorphic movie, it is supposed to be in the full mode? This does not seem to be what the manual said, as described above. If it is though, it wouldn't surprise me. Does that mean that the normal mode is only for 1080i (which I should be getting soon)? Really, it's not the small black bars at the top and bottom, I completely understand what is going on there, people film in different aspect ratios and such. It's the grey bars that reduce the image to 4:3. If this is the case, then my manual is awful. It in no way says that this is the case, only that the full mode is "for source squeezed (4:3) program." Why would the video signal from my dvd player fit this description? That is an honest question, I don't understand. All the manual says is that 1080i can't be displayed using the full picture size. If I read you right, that explains all of this except the manual and the CSR.

Ed, after typing this whole thing out, I think I misread your post. You are saying that for an anamorphic movie, it is supposed to be in the full mode? This does not seem to be what the manual said, as described above. If it is though, it wouldn't surprise me. Does that mean that the normal mode is only for 1080i (I should be getting HD soon))? Really, it's not the small black bars at the top and bottom, I completely understand what is going on there, people film in different aspect ratios and such. It's the grey bars that reduce the image to 4:3. If this is the case, then my manual is awful. It in no way says that this is the case, only that the full mode is "for source squeezed (4:3) program." Why would the video signal from my dvd player fit this description? That is an honest question, I don't understand. All the manual says is that 1080i can't be displayed using the full picture size. If I read you right, that explains all of this except the manual and the CSR.
For get that last part of my post on the good deal you got i was thinking about another post sorry about that

[agtpunx40]

Ok, now we're getting somewhere with this simple explanation thing. Anamorphic dvds are supposed to be displayed in full mode. so apparently, the "natural mode" is only for 1080i and 4:3 programs, correct? Why does the manual seem call an anamorphic signal "16:9 source squeezed (4:3) program?" I assume I use "natural picture size" is what I'll be using for HD, since I don't want to stretch it, and it says I can't use full mode.

well, can't wait for my hd box to get here, now that I've got this stuff figured out. Thanks for the help. I think I'm going to write toshiba and recommend that they change their manual to more clearly label this stuff. I've gotta say, I would have just figured that out if it weren't for this stupid manual.

Actually I did get a pretty good price, 1299, although I did have to break my no shopping at Best Buy rule. I did find out that they don't sell any sort of setup disks in store. Nothing. Of course, at least the guy I was talking to there knew what I was talking about. I decided to check Circuit City, since there was one on the way home, and no one there had any idea what I was talking about. After explaining in detail how to set up a tv, I had 2 emplyees, and the person in charge of the tv department tell me that they didn't know such a thing existed. They were polite and trying to help but common. Sometimes I need a reality check to remind me the percentage of people who spend 2, 3 or more times what I spent and do anything more than take the tv out of the box and turn it on is so small that it isn't even profitable for them to sell setup disks in-store.

anyway, thanks for the help everyone.

[edtyct]

Ed, after typing this whole post out, I think I misread your post. You are saying that for an anamorphic movie, it is supposed to be in the full mode? This does not seem to be what the manual said, as described above. If it is though, it wouldn't surprise me. Does that mean that the normal mode is only for 1080i (which I should be getting soon)? Really, it's not the small black bars at the top and bottom, I completely understand what is going on there, people film in different aspect ratios and such. It's the grey bars that reduce the image to 4:3. If this is the case, then my manual is awful. It in no way says that this is the case, only that the full mode is "for source squeezed (4:3) program." Why would the video signal from my dvd player fit this description? That is an honest question, I don't understand. All the manual says is that 1080i can't be displayed using the full picture size. If I read you right, that explains all of this except the manual and the CSR.
agtpunx,

I just got a copy of your manual. I've had a couple of Toshiba's RP CRTs around within the last few years, so I had a general idea of the menu system. But this one has a slightly new wrinkle, which doesn't amount to much in the end, except maybe to confuse an issue or two.

On p. 31, the directions for aspect ratio control of 480i/p sources lists the various options. The first, "natural," is a new term for unprocessed 4:3, which is basically what the manual means by as close to the original signal as possible (more on this mode below). On your TV, it will display with Toshiba's grey bars on the sides. The TheaterWide modes 1-3 allow you to tinker with these original 480 signals as you see fit. TW2 is expressly for letterbox widescreen movies that aren't mastered anamorphically. The ones in 1.78:1 will fill the screen in this mode; wider ones will have black bars at top/bottom. Option 4, "full" is the accepted term for 16X9 anamorphic, which means that it unsqueezes anamorphic material to the full extent of its resolution. There is absolutely no reason to use this setting for SD 480i 4:3 material, since the stretch will make everyone look like Spanky in the Our Gang series. The reason that this mode appears in the list for 480i signals is simply that you can switch into it if you are a glutton for visual punishment. Any 480p material that enters your screen as anamorphic (with black bars inherently attached) shouldn't need this mode to display. It will come across as "natural" and stay there. But since Toshiba includes 480p as a format permitting aspect ratio control, manually switching to "full" might be necessary, though I would think, and hope, not.)

The reason for the confusion is Toshiba's sidebar, which rightly states that none of these modes is applicable to 720p and 1080i material, which is anamorphic and thus not subject to external control of aspect ratio. But then Toshiba says that these formats display as "natural," which might give you the idea that you must switch into "natural" to get them. But you don't have to. "Natural" is actually something of a default term for both unprocessed 4:3, which you can choose to process in TW, and 1080l/720p, which is not subject to further processing in TW. In fact--the source of further confusion--these hi def formats automatically display as "full," which is also, in Toshiba's terminology, a "natural" (unprocessed) mode.

On p. 34, Toshiba explains the auto aspect setting. In the box at the top of the page, you'll notice the options. The second is Full 16x9; the first is 4:3, which is defined as "normal" (Toshiba's old term for 4:3) and classified as natural.

So anamorphic films at 480 (films usually listed on the box as either anamorphic or enhanced for 16x9 TVs) should flip automatically into their "natural" "full" format, whereas 4:3 material will display as either normal/natural or as one of the TW modes that you program into auto aspect. If you find that your anamorphic films don't display correctly--that is, either filling the screen completely or leaving black bars only at the top and
bottom--see if you can manually switch the TV to the "full" mode for them (since 48op is supposed to allow manual mode switching). If not, check again how the DVD player is sending its signal. I agree with the Toshiba customer service that the DVD player is probably at fault if you can't get anamorphic films to display properly. This should be the easiest and most painless of processes. It would be helpful, however, if you could get another DVD player to test so that you can rule out the TV altogether.

Ed

[agtpunx40]

I did switch the dvd player and get the same result so that's not it. In natural mode, they are displayed 4:3 with the grey and black bars, and compressed horizontally. In full mode, it looks right (ie not stretched in weird ways). For example, return of the king had black bars at the top and bottom, and looked about right. I can manually switch to full mode, but I was under the impression that the natural mode would be the more ideal choice, and was confused as to why I would have to switch to full mode for anamorphic dvds. I think what really has me confused is on page 31, where it shows the different resulting pics with "natural picture size" mode. I would assume that the dvd player would be giving it a full size, or near full size (depending on aspect ratio) widescreen image.

[edtyct]

I think what's going on is that in including 480p with 480i as a format capable of aspect-ratio control, Toshiba was forced to make the user switch into full mode manually for anamporphic films. The reason is that many previous HDTVs automatically displayed all 480p signals as anamorphic as if they were 1080i, and thus incapable of further control, even if the 480ps weren't anamorphic. The upside of placing them under your control is that you won't be forced to watch them stretched when they shouldn't be; the downside is that you have to switch to full yourself, which in the scheme of things isn't much of a hardship. Unless I'm mistaken, that's how it goes. At least you know that nothing is broken. But the manual is confusing about "natural." It turns out that the only reason why "full" was included in the list of possible aspects for 480i/p was so that you could switch to it with anamorphic ED films. BTW, LOTR should display as you've described in full mode.

Ed