Bass Extension???

[oddeoowphil38]

Do any of you know of a bookshelf (besides the Paradigm offerings) size speaker that has tight controlled low bass extension. I know the Paradigm mini monitor, monitor 3, and the studio 20 are notorious for having excellent low bass extension but are there any others in the same price ranges? If so how do they compare to the Paradigm line-up? For example, I find the mini monitor to have good tight bass extension but a little restrained in the upper registers whereas the monitor3 has much better bass extension and is much more open with respect to the upper registers. Likewise, the studio 20's just seem to do everything right. That is, extremely controlled low frequency extension, huge soundstage, and very airy and open on the top end as well. Hence, the studio 20's have top notch imaging capabilities. It is just they are a bit out of my price range so as a result I am looking for something close to the performance level of the studio 20's w/o the studio 20's price tag. Many have mentioned the Ascend CBM-170 as being as good as the studio 20's with the exception of low frequency extension. I dont have to have real low bass but I do want tight controlled accurate bass that typically extends to the 50-60 Hz range w/o breaking a sweat so to speak. Ok people please help. Thank you for your time.
Phil

[Pat D]

Do any of you know of a bookshelf (besides the Paradigm offerings) size speaker that has tight controlled low bass extension. I know the Paradigm mini monitor, monitor 3, and the studio 20 are notorious for having excellent low bass extension but are there any others in the same price ranges? If so how do they compare to the Paradigm line-up? For example, I find the mini monitor to have good tight bass extension but a little restrained in the upper registers whereas the monitor3 has much better bass extension and is much more open with respect to the upper registers. Likewise, the studio 20's just seem to do everything right. That is, extremely controlled low frequency extension, huge soundstage, and very airy and open on the top end as well. Hence, the studio 20's have top notch imaging capabilities. It is just they are a bit out of my price range so as a result I am looking for something close to the performance level of the studio 20's w/o the studio 20's price tag. Many have mentioned the Ascend CBM-170 as being as good as the studio 20's with the exception of low frequency extension. I dont have to have real low bass but I do want tight controlled accurate bass that typically extends to the 50-60 Hz range w/o breaking a sweat so to speak. Ok people please help. Thank you for your time.
Phil
Your profile says you have a subwoofer, so why are you so concerned about low frequency extension? Just curious.

Anyway, that's your privilege. The Energy C-3 is quite a nice little speaker and the measurements indicate it does have useful bass down to around 40 Hz. The measurements are quite good and I like it when they confirm my listening impressions. I though it was a very good value.

http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/energy%5Fconnoisseur%5Fc3/

PSB makes a speaker that looks like a good bet for an audition, the Image B25. I haven't heard it but it measures very well indeed for an inexpensive speaker. Stereophile's measurements in the bass are not quite as accurate as the NRC measurments, but it looks good down to below 40 Hz.

http://stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/1204psb/index4.html

There are lots of other speakers in your price range that might do. How did you like the Paradigm Monitor Series? I have heard the Monitor 5 and thought it was quite good.

[Florian]

The VMPS 626 also has very solid bass performance. www.vmpseurope.com

[nightflier]

The VMPS 626 also has very solid bass performance. www.vmpseurope.com

Well there's a speaker I never heard of before. But I doubt any of these speakers are anywhere near the Paradigm or Energy speakers the other mentioned. What do these cost, anyway? And where would you buy them?

[oddeoowphil38]

Pat the reason I am much more interested in the low frequency extension with bookshelf speakers is because my neighbors complain that my sub is too loud. I have not been able to really use it much since. I have it turned down to such low levels I ponder whats the use in having a sub. Yes, I know all about the Paradigm monitor series but I have not gotten the chance to audition the monitor 5. My local dealer claims it does not sell very well so they dont even stock it. I do, however, like the monitor 3 and chances are that is the speaker I will end up with for my fronts. Just was trying to find out if there might be others just as good. Personally, I would love to just go buy the Studio 20's and be done with it. But, my budget wont allow it at this time. Also, I do not want a floorstander because I may be moving to a much smaller place where space will be an issue. And, there will also be neighbors to be concerned about so it looks like my sub is useless to me. I may down the road look at getting an 8" powered sub that could provide some low end extension but not to the point or on the level of my Paradigm PS1000 v.4 does. That way, I wont be disturbing my neighbors too much and still enjoy a bit more low end punch. My titans are ok for surround duties but not near what I need for fronts. Likewise, my cc-170 v.3 is ok but I want better. Maybe the monitor 3's or 5's v.4 would work for my front stage and the cc-370 v.4 for my center stage. I just want to have a little more slection and maybe move away from Paradigm monitor series. Sure the Studio 20's and the cc-470 would work just fine up front and use my titans for rear duty but at $800 for the 20's and $650 for the cc-470 even with 10-15% off is beyond my budget. Cant find a PSB dealer near me and the Energy speakers are sold on-line if you live in the western part of US from what I have heard. Good Guys or Tweeter has Conisseur Line at great prices if you live in the mid-west. Once again I am SOL on that one. What concerns me about the monitor 5's is I have to "special order" them from my local Paradigm dealer AND if I dont like them well too bad I am stuck with them. I personally did not care for the Studio 40's at all. For some reason or another I thought the Studio 20's were much much better epsecially with imaging. The studio 40's did not seem to add any benefits whatsoever. My preference is on 2-channel stereo music at a 65% music vs 35% HT. I do not listen to music in multichannel format. I do, however, want good HT effect with proper front to back panning. Therefore, keeping my titans in the rear is no problem but my front stage has to be voice matched as perfectly as possible. Personally, I do not believe the rears of a 5.1 system really makes that much of a difference with respect to voice matching. Now if I listened to multichannel music that would be another story. Thanks for the advice.
Phil

[PAT.P]

Energy C3 or their C1 are some fine speaker also the Dahlquist QX5 45- 20 and the QX 6 37-20 .All of these great speaker and room sensitivity db are comparable to the Paradigm.If you live in Canada check out www.audioshop.on.ca ( Marc Hallam is a great guy to deal with) they also ship and most time have the display model at reduce price .They use to sell Paradigm but replace with the Dahlquist because more bang for the $$$.Anyway their all great speakers and I own some and I also have Axiom .All these are proudly Canadian speaker .Pat.P

[noddin0ff]

Suggesting things I know nothing about...
Couldn't you just get a parametric equalizer (such as the often discussed Behringer feedback destroyer) for a little over $100 and experiment with filtering out or attenuating the very low frequencies of your sub? There is likely a particular frequency range that is being reinforced and resonating throught the walls to your neighbors. Target that one for removal.

I don't see the point in finding new speakers to supply the same low frequencies your sub already supplies.

If your neighbors are friendly enough to help you trouble shoot it could be 'win'-'not lose as much' for your neighbors and you.

[Florian]

Actually VMPS is a very well known High End speaker maker that will easily beat any of those you mentioned. They won best High End speaker at CES several times. They cost 2000 a pair without options.

:-)

[T BOMB25]

The Paradigms do have good bass a little exagerrated though,im no B&W fan but the 602s3 bass is the most extended by far under $1000us by far a little dry but very tight and fast but price no object Totem Mani 2

[topspeed]

Didn't I see this on a Volkswagen Jetta commercial?

Like Noddin, I'm a little confused at what you're trying to achieve. You have a sub to provide low freq. information but your neighbors are less than thrilled. Therefore, you've turned off your sub and instead are looking for new standmounts to provide the same bass your neighbors have been whining about? :confused: Bass is bass, no matter where it comes from and unfortunately, bass tends to travel through walls very well. At least with the sub you can turn it down. With a standmount, all you'll be able to do is adjust the tone controls.

Now if you're just looking to upgrade, that's something else entirely. One of the most dynamic standmounts I've heard are these Von Schweikert VR1's. (thttp://vonschweikert.com/vr1.html) Rated to 40hz (-3dB), these provide more than enough low octave energy in my BR system. The capper is their huge sweet spot, the off-axis response has to be experienced to be believed. You can find nice used ones at audiogon for around $5-600. Definitely worth an audition.

[Florian]

How about bass traps?

[T BOMB25]

yeah the Vr-1 go very low,also the Totem Rainmaker,great with percussion music,and the PMC DB-1 very amazing for their size my advice though if you really something that goes low and destroy all of these monitrs in imageing and soundstaging that takes up less space than any of them and with the right match the Totem Arrows magic very impressive with the Unison Unico tntergrated amp

[noddin0ff]

How about bass traps?

??? What are these ???

[Florian]

Well bass traps are devices that eat the waves :-)

I sell them from R-T-F-S which are a tad better than Fast-Audio and cheaper too. Here are some pics...
http://www.maggiefanclub.de/5.jpg
http://www.maggiefanclub.de/2.jpghttp://www.maggiefanclub.de/3.jpghttp://www.maggiefanclub.de/4.jpg

http://www.maggiefanclub.de/1.jpg

[topspeed]

Bass traps are great for absorbing unwanted standing waves, but how will they stop the initial wave from going through the side, ceiling, and floors? The only way the OP is going to satisfy his neighbors is to either line his entire listening space in acoustimat or move. That's about it.

[Florian]

Well he can use ceeiling absorbers, reflection absorbers and bass traps. It will quite it down quite a bit. All a question about need and money.

-Flo

[oddeoowphil38]

Didn't I see this on a Volkswagen Jetta commercial?

Like Noddin, I'm a little confused at what you're trying to achieve. You have a sub to provide low freq. information but your neighbors are less than thrilled. Therefore, you've turned off your sub and instead are looking for new standmounts to provide the same bass your neighbors have been whining about? :confused: Bass is bass, no matter where it comes from and unfortunately, bass tends to travel through walls very well. At least with the sub you can turn it down. With a standmount, all you'll be able to do is adjust the tone controls.

Now if you're just looking to upgrade, that's something else entirely. One of the most dynamic standmounts I've heard are these Von Schweikert VR1's. (thttp://vonschweikert.com/vr1.html) Rated to 40hz (-3dB), these provide more than enough low octave energy in my BR system. The capper is their huge sweet spot, the off-axis response has to be experienced to be believed. You can find nice used ones at audiogon for around $5-600. Definitely worth an audition.
Well topspeed I am upgrading a bit. True bass waves are bass waves but doubt very seriously that a standmounted bookshelf is going to reproduce low frequency extension at the same intensity of my powered sub. This is wht I am trying to kill several birds with one stone so to speak. By obtaining a standmount speaker with decent low frequency extension will require me to make an upgrade. The MTX towers I own are on their way out just as soon as I can sell them. Right now they more or less have been serving as speaker stands because I moved the Titans to the front and have not been using any surrounds. The Titans do an okay job but do not give me what I want. Both the mini monitor and the monitor 3 do a much better job especially as far as low frequency extension is concerned. However, I am just trying to consider some other brands that may give me what I want and in the same price range as the Paradigm monitor series speakers. The studio 20 would do just fine but coupled with the cc-470 is just out of my price range. My plan is to keep my titans and to use them only for surround duties for 5.1. I know there are other bookshelf speakers with excellent low frequency extension but many are on the expensive side or at least beyond my budget. BTW, I have owned several VW's and have had very good luck with them.

[topspeed]

The studio 20 would do just fine but coupled with the cc-470 is just out of my price range. My plan is to keep my titans and to use them only for surround duties for 5.1. I know there are other bookshelf speakers with excellent low frequency extension but many are on the expensive side or at least beyond my budget. BTW, I have owned several VW's and have had very good luck with them.Consider yourself lucky. Based on VW's JD Power IQS, you're one of the few :p. Fun cars tho and most sport class leading interiors.

The 20v3's are really nice speakers. I almost bought them before I heard the VR1's. If you really are looking for a nice standmount that doesn't need a sub, you should take the time to audition the VSA's. There are very few monitors that will play to a true 40hz and provide a FR graph to prove it (signed by Albert Von Schweikert no less). At 500 bones used, they won't break the bank either.

Good luck

[T BOMB25]

Yeah the VR-1 will shock you they are and increadible buy that rear firing tweater hepls the soundstsage out to but you may wont a new pair i think they have a verson 2 out.

[topspeed]

The VR1's are the only one of the VR's that doesn't sport a rear ambience tweeter. You can get a ribbon super tweeter module to compliment it, but other than that, it's a normal dual driver array.

BTW Tbomb, I'll give you a dollar if you'll start using some punctuation. Your threads, especially the longer ones, are a bit tough to read.