Echo from RXV-650 Yamaha Tech says its Normal

[rokybird]

I have a new rxv 650 receiver that has an ECHO (audio delay) when watching my TV with the TV speakers on.
I am using a standard tube tv (HDTV) (Philips) with a standard analog cable connection without any cable box. I am connecting the tv audio ouputs to the Yamaha Rxv-650 for surround sound and better quality stereo sound. When the tv speakers are ON there is a distinct echo when watching cable tv. This echo dissappears when the receiver is in PURE DIRECT MODE, therefore it seems this echo is in the receiver. I tried another stereo receiver and there was no echo.

The YAMAHA Tech Guy says,"

"If you are using the TV speakers in conjunction with the receiver you
can and will experience some echo or sound delay/distortion. The TV and
the receiver do not have the same audio processor and in pure direct
mode there is no audio processing going on in the receiver.There is an audio delay option on the receiver but you would have to play with that to see if it could solve that problem.
"

Is the Yamaha Tech correct that my receiver in any mode other than pure direct will have an audio delay? Do all new receivers have this defect? Is this progress marching backwards?


What i have tried: I have adjusted the audio delay all the way max
and then back to zero delay. Adding delay just makes the echo worse. I
have tried using different inputs with no change in echo. The echo is
present in 2 or 7 channel mode. The echo is present in all effects
modes, I have set them back to default and the echo is still there.
The ECHO does stop when the receiver is set to PURE DIRECT MODE.
While turning off the TV speakers would eliminate the hearing of
the echo it would not correct the delay of the sound and is not a proper
fix. (Getting a 3,000 dollar plasma tv with a video delay that would
match the audio delay is not in the budget.)

Is this echo normal? I have thought that audio processors did not induce a noticeable delay.

[kexodusc]

This is perfectly normal and is not a defect at all. Any stage of processing introduces some delay, how much depends on each receiver. Yamaha's processors are as good as anybody's at that price range of receiver.

You should have the ability to change the distance of your speakers from your sitting location to compensate for this. Are they the same distance from you as the tv speakers? Exactly? If not, expect some delay. The speaker distance setting is just another delay setting as well, in fact it's the more relevant delay setting to adjust, Yamaha calls it "distance" to make it easier for people.
Make sure the distances are accurate. Could be that you have too much delay, in which case the processing is not at fault at all.
It could very well be that the TV is at fault, not the receiver, but you can't adjust the tv delay settings.

Delay is a funny thing. 1 ms isn't very much in terms of time, but it's enough for the human ear to pick up on and equates to about 1 foot on the distance settings. That would be all it takes to create the echo you're hearing. For me, even 1/2 foot or 0.5 ms is enough to skew things a bit.

[rokybird]

I just tried out my ten year old sony str d511 ,digitaly delayed dolby prologic receiver and there is no delay present. Adjusting front speaker distance in the setup does not eliminate the delay. On pure direct mode (no processing) there is no delay on the Yamaha. So the delay is the result of the processing. Does anybody notice this problem with their Pioneer,Denon,Marantz,HK ,etc. receivers?

[Geoffcin]

I just tried out my ten year old sony str d511 ,digitaly delayed dolby prologic receiver and there is no delay present. Adjusting front speaker distance in the setup does not eliminate the delay. On pure direct mode (no processing) there is no delay on the Yamaha. So the delay is the result of the processing. Does anybody notice this problem with their Pioneer,Denon,Marantz,HK ,etc. receivers?

All Home Theater capable receivers will adjust for delay/distance. If you want to use the TV speakers for a center channel in HT, check to see if there's a speaker binding posts, or RCA jacks on the back of the TV for INPUT (my Panasonic Tau TV has them) so your receiver can drive the TV speakers.