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Brianphoto
06-01-2005, 03:11 PM
I have to post to convey my experience with customer service at Paradigm Electronics. I had purchased $8500.00 worth of Studio Reference speakers including a Servo 15v1 subwoofer. After 1 month the sub developed a an internal rattle which could not be fixed by my dealer so it was sent to Paradigm and they sent me a new unit. The new unit had obvious defects in the cabinet, chipped wood around the driver opening as well as 2 places where the laminate had separated from the wood. I sent the sub back to Paradigm and after more than 2 months their response was the sub had water damage and all they were willing to do was "fill" the areas and send it back to me. They sent me photos of the repair job and I told them that it was not acceptable to me. Since the v1 was no longer made they said there was nothing they would do. I offered to pay the difference for a new v3 model but they would not consider that as an option and just sent the sub back to me. I have posted pictures of the sub at www.prophotographics.ca/paradigm.htm for people to see what they have sent me. Their final comment was to leave the grill on and nobody will notice. In my opinion this is just not good enough. This is an expensive piece of equipment and I think I deserve to be treated better. So if you are thinking about purchasing Paradigm equipment, go ahead, if you don't mind dealing with lousey customer service when you need it! Come on Paradigm, remember it is us, the little consumer who keeps you in business. I don't know where to go from here so if anyone has any comments or suggestion I would appreciate it.....

Geoffcin
06-01-2005, 03:31 PM
I have to post to convey my experience with customer service at Paradigm Electronics. I had purchased $8500.00 worth of Studio Reference speakers including a Servo 15v1 subwoofer. After 1 month the sub developed a an internal rattle which could not be fixed by my dealer so it was sent to Paradigm and they sent me a new unit. The new unit had obvious defects in the cabinet, chipped wood around the driver opening as well as 2 places where the laminate had separated from the wood. I sent the sub back to Paradigm and after more than 2 months their response was the sub had water damage and all they were willing to do was "fill" the areas and send it back to me. They sent me photos of the repair job and I told them that it was not acceptable to me. Since the v1 was no longer made they said there was nothing they would do. I offered to pay the difference for a new v3 model but they would not consider that as an option and just sent the sub back to me. I have posted pictures of the sub at www.prophotographics.ca/paradigm.htm for people to see what they have sent me. Their final comment was to leave the grill on and nobody will notice. In my opinion this is just not good enough. This is an expensive piece of equipment and I think I deserve to be treated better. So if you are thinking about purchasing Paradigm equipment, go ahead, if you don't mind dealing with lousey customer service when you need it! Come on Paradigm, remember it is us, the little consumer who keeps you in business. I don't know where to go from here so if anyone has any comments or suggestion I would appreciate it.....

Perhaps someone here can help you out of your pain.

Brianphoto
06-01-2005, 03:40 PM
Perhaps someone here can help you out of your pain.

I certainly hope so, this has gotten to be very time consuming as well as frustration to say the least. Not easy trying to take on big business by yourself.

RGA
06-01-2005, 04:23 PM
I was just about to say Post this on audioasylum but I see you already have.

I can;t tell from your post but is paradigm fully aware of the problem. From what I can see you just purchased a paradigm Reference system - V2?? and you just purchased it from an Authorized dealer and it is just one month old. am i correct?

You have a problem with the sub and you took it back to the dealer? Correct?

Then Paradigm sends you a DIFFERENT badly finished subwoofer?? Correct?

Now if the sub you purchased has a five year warranty which I believe is the case then in Canada you they either fix the sub, replace the sub with a NEW current equiveleant model OR they give you your money back. Indeed, if they can't replace it with the exact model then i believe in Canada YOU the customer get the choice of your money back or the new model. You can write them a firm letter of the steps you will take if they don't resolve the issue properly -- actually I'd be going through your dealer as much as possible.

1) Write a letter e-mail of the situation from start to finish with all correspondence
2) Send this to Paradigm with the date at the top and a CC at the bottom so they know you are keeping copies of all correspondence - that CC will usually scare them because they know the next step is a lawyer. Some companies that get big are bullies and they bluff you -- call them -- the last thing they are ever going to want to do is send some $250,000 a year lawyer to small claims court to LOSE to you anyway.
3) by now something should get done -- if not
4) send another letter witht he intention of going to a lawyer and to the better business review board (By the way keep track of all the time this is wasting you so that when the time comes you can nail them for a few thousand dollars of wasting your time and distress and any other thing you can possibly concoct along with any lawyer bills)
5) Find small claims lawyer. Lawyer will send them a letter -- this will in all likelyhood get the problem solved.

It's rare for a company to do all of this but if you are indeed in the right and you don;t get ti resolved just keep bashing them on audio forums - punish them the only place they are interested in -- the bank account...lots of other speakers people can buy instead.

Woochifer
06-01-2005, 05:12 PM
Have you checked back with your dealer to see what your options are? They're actually the first point of contact on these matters. Dealing directly with the company can be a major headache because an individual customer does not have as much pull as a dealer might, since they have to maintain regular contact.

If your dealer does not know about the problems you've been having, then you should talk to them, since they're the ones that probably have more at stake by keeping you happy as a customer. The unit is still under warranty, and you should have other options open.

In a way, you're stuck because that model indeed is no longer manufactured, so Paradigm probably does not have any spare Servo 15 enclosures lying around. And I doubt that they keep much of the laminate that went with that series either, since they've now gone to a different color scheme.

But, my bigger question to you is why does all this matter? Looking at the pictures, the blemish is in an area not immediately visible when the grille is on. And looking at the pictures on that website, the blemish doesn't look like it's all that big when it's not magnified. In audio, the most important aspect of a system is its sound performance. The first problem that you encountered with the rattle was consequential because it affected the sound quality. The problem that you've thus far been unable to resolve does not affect the sound quality.

But, from what your website says, if the laminate defect was there from the beginning, then why did you raise a stink about it until after you sent the unit back to Paradigm? If the workmanship was not to your liking from the very beginning, then you should have immediately alerted your dealer to the issue.

Basically, it comes down to whether some cosmetic defects are worth crusading in public over. If some blems hidden behind the grille mean that much to you, then by all means follow RGA's scream-bloody-murder-until-somebody-notices prescription. The problem with that approach is that going onto these audio boards just to vent and complain, without contributing anything else useful, is pretty much a red flag for the regulars to tune you out.

Brianphoto
06-01-2005, 05:37 PM
Woochifer, I appreciate your comments as well as any comments from any other posters here. Believe me the defects are much more noticable in person than the photos actually show. After spending alot of hard earned money on this sub I guess I expect it to be mechanically and sonically perfect and not feel like I have to cover up flaws with a grill when company comes over. It is after all a show peice as well. And sorry to disagree with you but I feel informing others on this forum of my experience with Paradigm is a viable contribution. The people who have thanked me seem to think so. Would you be satisfied if you were in my position?

bjornb17
06-01-2005, 05:41 PM
i feel your pain.

it sucks when you put your trust into a company and get shafted like this.

Brianphoto
06-01-2005, 05:58 PM
Thanks bjornb17, most people feel the same, appreciate your comments.

Wireworm5
06-01-2005, 06:19 PM
Just to be a Devils advacate. I find it hard to believe that a authorized Paradigm dealer wound sell you a model that was no longer in production. If however as you claim you purchased this out of date sub recently from an authorized dealer and it is still under warranty. Then I would assume that Paradigm views this kind of damage as negligence on your part and therefore not covered by the warranty. If so, from their point of view they are not obligated to do anything for you. But they're giving you the benefit of a doubt by replacing a sub that was mis-used by you or whom ever, for one that works.
Maybe your looking a gift-horse in the mouth?

Brianphoto
06-01-2005, 06:35 PM
Wireworm5, I appreciate the devils advocate approach but you are way off base here. Paradigm did not replace the second sub, they merely repaired it in a manner that was not acceptable to me. The defects were manufacturing related and not a result of any sort of abuse, they just refuse to take resposibility for it.

Woochifer
06-01-2005, 07:26 PM
Woochifer, I appreciate your comments as well as any comments from any other posters here. Believe me the defects are much more noticable in person than the photos actually show. After spending alot of hard earned money on this sub I guess I expect it to be mechanically and sonically perfect and not feel like I have to cover up flaws with a grill when company comes over. It is after all a show peice as well. And sorry to disagree with you but I feel informing others on this forum of my experience with Paradigm is a viable contribution. The people who have thanked me seem to think so. Would you be satisfied if you were in my position?

That depends on what you have done thus far to help yourself. You still haven't told us whether or not you've contacted your dealer to help you out with this problem, or why this matters to you so much now and did not seem to matter until after you sent the sub back to Paradigm. After all, your website says that these cosmetic flaws were there from the beginning, yet it did not seem to bother you until after the unit got sent in for repair.

Personally, I feel that any speaker with a laminate cabinet is not a "show" piece of any kind. It's strictly a functional box that does its job, and hopefully does it well. If it looks anywhere close to decent, then consider it a bonus. My sub's got all kinds of uneven seams and cheap looking paint on the front fascia, but it doesn't matter to me one bit because the driver is properly sealed into the cabinet with no air leaks (without the grille, the thing looks butt ugly because the driver mounting gasket sticks out of the cabinet and the hole is visibly bigger than it needs to be), and any cosmetic flaws are either covered by the grille or in the back where nobody's looking anyway.

Mechanical and sonic "perfection" I would regard in how it sounds, not how it looks. If this process is about some need to show your friends an impressive looking set of speakers, then you might as well go back to the beginning and make the whole process of speaker selection a beauty contest. Plenty of nice looking wood veneered speakers out there, if you're willing to sacrifice some of the sound quality to get that look.

Contributing to forums means making regular contributions and sharing experiences. Thus far, you've come on here and just griped about the customer service and through your website urge people to "never" buy Paradigm products and say that there are "much better quality products out there." No comments at all about the sound quality or about the product itself or any suggestions about what other companies have better customer service or better quality products.

Wireworm5
06-01-2005, 07:35 PM
Wireworm5, I appreciate the devils advocate approach but you are way off base here. Paradigm did not replace the second sub, they merely repaired it in a manner that was not acceptable to me. The defects were manufacturing related and not a result of any sort of abuse, they just refuse to take resposibility for it.

I understand your disappointment with the second sub. But I'm saying Paradigm probably doesn't feel obligated to warranty your first sub. The fact they sent you a working second sub blemished or not is a bonus, rather than have no sub at all.

RGA
06-01-2005, 09:54 PM
Woochifer

After reading it again it sounds like he bought a brand new sub after 2 months it rattled - sends it back -- they replace it with a new one (I assume a V2) but the one they sent has water damageand blemishes thatthe original one did not.

Granted to you and I and many the blemishes may not be a big deal. On the other hand I think it's a matter of principal -- yoy buy a pristine product and you pay hard earned money for it. The product fails which the company admits to as they send out another -- the one they send him as a replacement is a scuffed up water damaged mess "The new unit had obvious defects in the cabinet, chipped wood around the driver opening as well as 2 places where the laminate had separated from the wood. I sent the sub back to Paradigm and after more than 2 months their response was the sub had water damage and all they were willing to do was "fill" the areas and send it back to me."

if their response was that it had water damage then I'm sorry this is just wrong -- whether it is a sionic masterpiece or not -- if i buy a Red Ferrari and I have an engine problem send it to the dealer and they sdecide to give me a replacement loaded with dents and a pink door I'd be pretty choked -- even if it goes from point a to point b as good as ever. Speakers are part of ones furniture after all.

I would expect a company this size frankly to just send him a brand spanking new subwoofer in mint shape - iot really does nto cost them much in the big sceme of things. And in Canada they are SUPPOSED to keep a sufficient supply of all parts including the cabinets for 7 years beyond the last year the unit was sold (same goes for car parts) Pretyt sure on this unless the Canadian Government changed it.

If Paradigm admits that tthe replacement has water damage then in a couple of years it is conceivable that the sub cabinet will completely fall apart. So if I got that message even if the cabinet was in reasonable shape I'd be wanting a replacement.

To me it's principle -- why should this guy accept anything less than what he paid for -- he paid for a working subwoofer wiothout water damage without a bunch of blemishes -- and that is exactly what he should get nothing less.

I don't see what his post count has to do with anything -- for all we know this could be his first system. My only complaint is they he has not been as descriptive of the events and messages back and forth...I like the details to be presented and i get the sense there is some information we're not getting -- namely Paradigm's side of the story.

Wireworm5
06-02-2005, 01:00 AM
If in fact BP purchased a pristine Servo 15 v1 sub at and authorized dealer then I too believe Paradigm should honour the warranty if no negligence was involved on his part with a brand new up to date sub of the same model. But if this is the case then this dealer hasn't sold a Servo sub in at least 5 years, not a location Paradigm would want to have for very long. If on the other hand the dealer had this used servo 15 v1 which he threw in to sweeten the deal, which at best is worth $300 to $500 bucks. BP buys it not knowing it was previously damaged by previous owner or purposely damages it in the hopes of getting a brand spanking new one for a mere $500, in either of these two scenarios the sub is damaged due to negligence and the warranty void, but Paradigm replaces it with sub of equal value giving him the benefit of a doubt. Lets take this logic further, he's trying to tell us that if he made the same deal on a newer improved Servo 15 v2 sub for $500 bucks he would not have bought it cause it had a cosmetic blemish on it that you can't see with the grill on. So now he's willing to foot the difference on a brand spanking new Servo 15 v3 which his authorized dealer never carried cause he still hasn't sold his old stock from over 5 years ago. Something smells fishy here.

Brianphoto
06-02-2005, 03:39 AM
RGA, the analogy about the re Ferarri is great. It may perform great but it should also look great as well. And you also brought up the point about a manufacturer having to stock parts for a discontinued item for a period of 7 years is a great point as well, although I think the time period is 5 years. I am in Canada so this is an angle I will look into further for sure. Thanks for that RGA!

Brianphoto
06-02-2005, 03:44 AM
Woochifer, sorry your sub is so butt ugly. With all of the uneven seams and chep looking paint you may want to get a new one. I have a Servo 15 for sale if you like, just leave the grill on and it looks brand new, you'll love it.

kexodusc
06-02-2005, 03:45 AM
Lets take this logic further, he's trying to tell us that if he made the same deal on a newer improved Servo 15 v2 sub for $500 bucks he would not have bought it cause it had a cosmetic blemish on it that you can't see with the grill on. So now he's willing to foot the difference on a brand spanking new Servo 15 v3 which his authorized dealer never carried cause he still hasn't sold his old stock from over 5 years ago. Something smells fishy here.
I think you're on to something, there does appear to be more to this story than we're getting so far. I think we should all reserve comments until Brianphoto contacts his Paradigm Dealer and goes through that channel.

Brianphoto
06-02-2005, 04:09 AM
Wireworm5, there is nothing fishy here but it is great to have comments from the opposite side in here as well we all appreciate opposite opinions as it makes for a much better debate.

The longer threads go the more they get diluted and more of the post is lost so I will repost with in more dtail.

In October 2003 I purchased a brand new reference system from my local dealer including a new Servo 15 v1. Two months later, in December, the sub developed an internal rattle which could not be repaired by my dealer so it was sent to Paradigm which they replaced with a brand new Servo 15v1. I noticed defects in the cabinet, under the grill a couple of weeks later. It was now a few days before Christmas and I did not want to deal with it during Christmas so my dealer wan not informed right away about it. I wanted to wait until Christmas was over. Unfortunately immediately after Christmas I was faced with a personal crisis, which I will not elaborate on here in this forum. It has been a year since I was physically able to have the subject of the sub seen to but the sub has not been used for a year. I have moved provinces since then and brought the sub to a local dealer here, not the original place of purchase. They sent the sub away for me over 2 months ago and never got any satisfaction from Paradigm so they basically told me I should deal with Paradigm myself. Since they never sold the sub to me originally they were not very helpful. 3 weeks ago Paradigm told me that the v1 was not made anymore and there was nothing they could do for me, only repair the damaged wood. I was not happy with the results and told them I would pay the difference for a newer v3. They would not do that and just sent the sub back to me in it's present state. Hope this clarifies thing more.

Eric Z
06-02-2005, 04:43 AM
Brianphoto-

So, what I gather from your last post is that you waited approximately a year to send the damaged sub back to Paradigm. Is that correct? If that's the case, I bet that's why Paradigm not cooperating too well. It still frustrates the heck out of me because of their service- they sent you an inferior product that you bought from an authorized dealer, so it's their responsibilty to replace it or give you the cash back (or you pay the difference for the next version). Some people may say, it's fine as long as the defect/damage doesn't affect the sound. What I say (and you probably, too) is that you paid for a brand new mint condition sub, not one with water damage.

I recommend staying on them for this- just be sure to clearly explain their situation.

I had to deal with a similar situation when I bought cabinets for my kitchen. I know it's a different industry, but customer service is customer service in any industry. Cabinets were delivered and 11 of the 15 were damaged. I called Home Depot and they had new cabinets mailed to me. The new cabinets weren't damaged this time, they had a warp defect, so the doors on 8 of the 11 new cabinets didn't close all the way. Home Depot didn't help anymore so I went to the manufacturer and needed to write them a couple letters. The last letter, I copied in the VP of consumer relations and CEO. Wow, they acted very fast after that- I received a phone call and then the new cabinet doors next day air.

Enough about my story- just wanted to share it to let you know it does work.

I bet Paradigm's argument lies in how you waited a decent amount of time to notify them of the damaged product you received. I apologize if I misunderstood your post if that isn't accurate.

Good luck- please keep us updated.
Eric

Brianphoto
06-02-2005, 04:56 AM
Eric Z, thank you for your response and sharing your experience. I agree with you in every word! And you are right, Paradigm is not cooperating because of the time frome but as I explained physically there was nothing I could do during that year. Full disclosure was made to Paradigm but they are not sympathetic at all to my case. As I stated the damage was done at the manufacturing end and not caused by me, the stereo was basically not used during that time period. Even if they were understanding of my situation they would not do anything since this version is not made any more. My suggestion to them was to sned me a newer version and I will pay the additional 5 or 6 hundred dollars myself just to have my stereo looking perfectly new again since I am able to use it now and enjoy it. I think this was a fair offer to resolve this. For those of you who think I am trying to scama new sub from Paradigm you are totally wrong. I was quite happy with the sound quality with the old sub and would have been very satisfied if the cabinet was repaired to my satisfaction. I am the customer right?

Eric Z
06-02-2005, 07:01 AM
Good points, Brianphoto! It's interesting because some may say, it's your fault you waited so long- I can sort of see that point, however, I (as you) wish they would handle it better. I know some others will say, Paradigm can't replace any speaker at anytime because of dishonest people trying to get something for nothing- definitely not you in this situation.

If anything, this is a good learning experience for all- if at all possible, connect with the dealer/manufacturer ASAP when you have issues.

I wish you the best of luck!

JSE
06-02-2005, 07:05 AM
I gotta say I agree with Paradigm on this one. I'm not impressed with how they handled it but the end result is just.

You waited over a year to bring the "blemish" to their attention and now you want them to warranty it? Personal physical issues aside, it seems they have gone above and beyond to help a customer out. You gave them a damaged sub. You can't prove they damaged it and you can't prove you did not. If I was Paradigm, I would be thinking.....

" Hmm, our customer took delivery of this replacement sub over a year ago and never brought any problems to our attention upon receipt. The customer now, over a year later, says it was delivered to him with blemishes and water damage. The sub has been sitting in his house for over a year. There are a million gazzilion ways the damage could have occurred in this time. We sent a good sub to the customer, now over a year later he has a problem with it? Well, let's offer to repair the blemish for free as a "good will gesture". "

Seems pretty reasonable. They replace your v2 sub with a v2 sub and now over a year later you have a problem with something that should have been obvious from day one and delt with from day one. Hard fact? You can't prove they sent you a damaged sub and waiting over a year does not help your case. Count yourself lucky and move on. Your not going to win this one.

JSE

LVMF
06-02-2005, 07:08 AM
I emailed Paradigm for info on a bass driver for a speaker 13 years old, and their response was they had no idea which driver I should use or what they could supply me.

All I can say is I'm glad it was only a $500 pair of speakers, and that I got 13 years out of them!

Plain and simple, they s@@k when it comes to customer service!

Brianphoto
06-02-2005, 07:26 AM
JSE, Regarless of the time frame involved, and my inability to respond to this sooner I feel I have evidence that the sub had manufacturer defects. First of all I saw it after a couple of weeks. It is under the grill so it was not noticed right away. Secondly the wood that was chipped and splintered has rosewood stain underneath the actual raised wood so that tells me that the cabinet was sprayed in the factory with these defects visable. If the damage happened after, the wood underneath would be natural colour with no stain visible. For example, If you take a piece of stained wood with no blemishes in it and remove a splinter from it, the wood under the splinter would be clear right? If the splinter was there before the spray finish was applied there would be stain all over the splinter and below correct? It is easy to tell this defect was just sprayed over in the factory.

anamorphic96
06-02-2005, 07:36 AM
JSE nails it with his assesment. You are probably not gonna win this one Brian. If you had dealt with it from day 1. Im sure Paradigm would have been more than willing to do something. But you waited a YEAR. Thats a LONG time to wait to report something. Heaven only knows what could have happend in that time frame. Im sure your an honest guy but you waited a year and thats the problem here.

Even them not accepting the upgrade path you offered is not that irrational since they would probably have lost money.

I think Paradigm has done nothing wrong in this situation.

Sorry.

Brianphoto
06-02-2005, 07:45 AM
Yeah you are probably right, will have to chaulk it up to a learning experience. Hope others have learned something as well.

GMichael
06-02-2005, 08:47 AM
Yes, the waiting (or delay) is what is hurting you now. I don't think you are trying to pull anything on them but I do see their point. From their side they figure that you damaged it within the 1 year time and are trying to get something for nothing. Unless you get a very understanding Sales Person or Manager I doubt you'll get anything out of them short of going the RGA method of rattling their cage with letters and CC's. Even then It may be a tough battle. I have been doing business with a lot of companies all over the world for over 20 years. One thing most of them agree on is that damage must be reported immediately to get any credit or replacements.

Good luck, as I know that this must be very disappointing to you.

Brianphoto
06-02-2005, 09:25 AM
GMichael, thanks for your comments.

Woochifer
06-02-2005, 10:23 AM
Woochifer

After reading it again it sounds like he bought a brand new sub after 2 months it rattled - sends it back -- they replace it with a new one (I assume a V2) but the one they sent has water damageand blemishes thatthe original one did not.

Granted to you and I and many the blemishes may not be a big deal. On the other hand I think it's a matter of principal -- yoy buy a pristine product and you pay hard earned money for it. The product fails which the company admits to as they send out another -- the one they send him as a replacement is a scuffed up water damaged mess "The new unit had obvious defects in the cabinet, chipped wood around the driver opening as well as 2 places where the laminate had separated from the wood. I sent the sub back to Paradigm and after more than 2 months their response was the sub had water damage and all they were willing to do was "fill" the areas and send it back to me."

Sure, it's a matter of principle, but I also look at matters of practicality. Are the issues at hand worth all the trouble and hassle in the name of principle? Personally, I don't think that cosmetic issues are, particularly those that aren't readily visible. The other issue is that the original poster waited so long to raise a stink about it, and his website said that these cosmetic flaws were there from the beginning. So long as the driver is properly sealed with no air leaks, the appearance of the juncture is inconsequential to me. If anything, I'm surprised that Paradigm went with a flushed driver mount on the Servo 15 because the tolerances have to be so much tighter than with the surface mounting that all of Paradigm's bookshelf and tower speakers use.


if their response was that it had water damage then I'm sorry this is just wrong -- whether it is a sionic masterpiece or not -- if i buy a Red Ferrari and I have an engine problem send it to the dealer and they sdecide to give me a replacement loaded with dents and a pink door I'd be pretty choked -- even if it goes from point a to point b as good as ever. Speakers are part of ones furniture after all.

Once again, your car analogy does not work because the cosmetic flaw in question is not in a normally visible area. A more appropriate car analogy would be finding paint chips and scratches on the engine block. You could choose to raise a stink about it just because it's there, or you could just go on enjoying your Ferrari, since no one will notice it anyway with the hood down.

Besides, laminate cabinets are not exactly fine furniture. Doesn't matter how well it approximates the look of wood, it is what it is -- a vinyl stickyback that covers the MDF layer. If you want something that looks good, go for the wood veneer option. If you prefer utilitarian function and saving a few bucks, go with the laminate.


If Paradigm admits that tthe replacement has water damage then in a couple of years it is conceivable that the sub cabinet will completely fall apart. So if I got that message even if the cabinet was in reasonable shape I'd be wanting a replacement.

Completely fall apart? Let's not get too far removed from reality here. It would take a lot of water damage to rot away the structure of a braced MDF cabinet. I've left cheap particleboard bookcases outdoors for an entire rainy season, and they did not fall apart. If the water damage were that debilitating, then it would stand to reason that the first sign that something's amiss would be air leaks around the driver. That would be a justifiable reason for cabinet replacement since it has a direct bearing on the performance of the subwoofer.


I don't see what his post count has to do with anything -- for all we know this could be his first system. My only complaint is they he has not been as descriptive of the events and messages back and forth...I like the details to be presented and i get the sense there is some information we're not getting -- namely Paradigm's side of the story.

It's not the post count, it's when people come onto a board for the sole purpose of venting and complaining, without contributing anything else. Seems that the original poster has gone onto other boards and posted the same message. It's fine, since it doesn't violate any board rules. But, on the other hand, people whose messages only consist of complaints are often viewed with skepticism. That's why I disagreed with your suggestion that the poster just keep bashing them on audio forums. If complaints and bashing represent the only contributions to those audio forums, then people will tune out in a hurry.

Woochifer
06-02-2005, 10:40 AM
Woochifer, sorry your sub is so butt ugly. With all of the uneven seams and chep looking paint you may want to get a new one. I have a Servo 15 for sale if you like, just leave the grill on and it looks brand new, you'll love it.

My sub looks fine -- that's what grilles are for. It also sounds fine, which is why I'm not looking to buy a new one any time soon.

If you're serious about selling the Servo 15, you'll have no shortage of takers. Sealed acoustic suspension subs that extend down past 18 Hz and sell for $1,500USD are few and far between. In fact, the Servo 15 very well might have been the only sub in its price class with those kinds of performance credentials in a sealed box design. The new v.2 version extends below 15 Hz and has a higher peak SPL, but the price also got bumped up by $700USD. Because of that price jump and because the older Servo 15s already had more than enough bass for most rooms, you should have no problem getting a high resale.

Then the question becomes, what do you replace it with? Most of your options in that price range that can deliver the Servo 15's bass output are ported designs, and those have a noticeably different type of sound. Louder, more assertive, but not as clean and tight as a sealed box.

RGA
06-02-2005, 01:56 PM
Woochifer

I did not realize the grill covers the blemish anyway -- persoannly if it works well I would not care. people are saying he waited a year to tell them -- not sure I read this in his post -- sounds to me he bough a sub a year in it broke down - sent it back they give him a replacement sub --- he gets the replacement with all the blemishes so he sends it back -- 2 months later it comes back to him and they say they won't do anything about it. I might gripe if I paid $1500.00US for a sub which first fails and then they give me the one engineers play while their working, as my replacement. I dunno perhaps I read the whiole thing incorrectly. i know at Future Shop here if you buy a printer say an HP and in year 3 (if you have their warranty) if it breaks 3 times or it takes more than 30 days to fix or they can't fix it, they repolace it with whatever the new replacement model is.

I can't see too many Paradigm Subs failing and strangely I can't see why they could not fix the older one to begin with -- replace the driver. I can understand them maybe not wanting to give him a new one so just give the money back and get him out of your hair.

Florian
06-02-2005, 02:11 PM
Can you fix the optics by yourself with some fill-in sandpaper and then the same color?

-Flo

corwin99
06-02-2005, 02:45 PM
Are the issues at hand worth all the trouble and hassle in the name of principle? Personally, I don't think that cosmetic issues are, particularly those that aren't readily visible.


To me they would be, but not in the name of principle... but in the name of resale value. I like to always have the option of reselling anything I buy, and if it's damaged, that's going to cost me on resale. The Audio Note AN/K Spe's I bought have slight damage to the cabinets.. I am still waiting on a response. The speakers were incredibly cheap made with leftover cabinets from the previous model year so the blems might have to be acceptible. I just want to know if Soundhounds was aware of the blems and if they were why wasn't I notified. At $1500CAD a pair (even tho they are normally $3000) I'd like them to not have blems.

In this case I probably won't "scream bloody murder" as someone so wonderfully put it, but I will definately let them know i am unhappy about it. I listen with my grills off, so damage under the grills bothers me.

Florian
06-02-2005, 02:48 PM
I have the same issue. If i know something is not right, even tough i dont see it right away ir still bothers me.

-Flo

JSE
06-02-2005, 02:57 PM
Hey RGA,

He got the replacment sub, saw the problem and then waited over a year to bring the problem to Paradigm's attention due to health concerns. Paradigm them repaired the sub and sent it back to him. He gave a time line in one of his posts.

Just FYI.

JSE

Brianphoto
06-02-2005, 03:37 PM
Ok gentlemen (not sure if there were any lady posters) I think we got about as much milage out of this thread as possible. There were a lot of varying opinions here and be sure that I have read them all and really appreciate the input that everybody had here. As a new HT person I look forward to learning from all of the forums here and hopefully have something pertinent to contribute. I have already started another thread under projectors so check it out and let me know if you have any info to offer. Thanks again............

RGA
06-02-2005, 05:39 PM
To me they would be, but not in the name of principle... but in the name of resale value. I like to always have the option of reselling anything I buy, and if it's damaged, that's going to cost me on resale. The Audio Note AN/K Spe's I bought have slight damage to the cabinets.. I am still waiting on a response. The speakers were incredibly cheap made with leftover cabinets from the previous model year so the blems might have to be acceptible. I just want to know if Soundhounds was aware of the blems and if they were why wasn't I notified. At $1500CAD a pair (even tho they are normally $3000) I'd like them to not have blems.

In this case I probably won't "scream bloody murder" as someone so wonderfully put it, but I will definately let them know i am unhappy about it. I listen with my grills off, so damage under the grills bothers me.

Huh? My understanding was that they were simply a prior model -- they should still be new just a prior model. The new models use better cabinets and from a new cabinet maker. I bought the AN K at the reduced price as well and I don;t believe I had any blemishes. My J's are not free of them though but they were half off and because they're black you have to really get close to see them. though I dropped the speaker and it put a whole in the wall -- so there is some scuffing on the bottom corner where it rubbed against the stand. but that's my bad. I never really looked close at them out of the box.

I don't believe they should have defects is my point though - and if so then they should tell you that up front..."these are $1500.00 because they are a year old and have some blemishes" So I doubt they are aware of it.

corwin99
06-03-2005, 08:34 AM
I don't believe they should have defects is my point though - and if so then they should tell you that up front..."these are $1500.00 because they are a year old and have some blemishes" So I doubt they are aware of it.

Hmm.. i will definately call them on Saturday and try to straighten this out since i am getting nowhere via email. Thanks for your input on this.

HAVIC
06-03-2005, 10:45 AM
The issue here is Customer loyalty and if Paradigm had given the Brianphoto what he wanted then he would consider them for his next set of speakers. He may not of even looked at another brand because of the customer service they gave him. However this is not the case and because of his post here I myself am very glad that I did not choose Paradigm for my speakers and went with another and I'm sure others have been turned away as well.

Granted there are many people in this world who take advantage of companies but companies also take advantage of their customers as well.

I am a big fan of a companies who have great customer service, because everyone has problems from Ferrari down to small company x. I don't care who you are S*** happens, but it is the companies that are willing to resolve these matters that stand out from the rest.

Quick example, I bought a $70 USD Logitech Wireless Xbox remote control that went bad on me, I called them up and the said ok I will send you a wired controller until our new model comes out. When it comes out we will send you the new wireless and keep the wired for the inconvience.

I did not have to say a word because they wanted to keep me as a customer. For all they knew I dropped the remote down a flight of stairs and that is why it doesn't work (that is not what happened though), and I always have and will remain a Logitech customer.

Now with a much smaller company like Paradigm they need all the customers they can get in the limited hi-fi speaker arena becuase most people are buying the cheapo speakers at Circuit city, best buy etc...

On the other hand I bought a VW jetta in 2000 and have had over $15,000 worth of repairs and had to fight volkswagen through the whole experience. I even had to video tape several problems till they "believed" me. They treated me like someone who did not know what I was talking about and I will never buy a VW/AUDI again.

So it's not the problems you encounter it is how it is handled.

Greg

RGA
06-03-2005, 11:12 AM
it's funny you mention volkswagon because everyone our family knows or has known over the years reports the IDENTICAL thing. Their attitude to my friends parents when their engine head cracked after 4 months was that "well our cars are the best and therefore it must have been your fault" and they are roayal pains in the ass. Considering how often they break down I always laugh when I hear their tag line "German engineering" Yeah like thanks for the warning. Looking through the Lemon-Aid it would seem most new Mercedes and B&W are poorly engineered and poorly built -- Hmm can you say Lexus?

Customer service is dissapearing in most industries because big companies really don;t care about you the little guy - I say most because some like you Logitech know that in the computer field you'll be a repeat customer so if you're happy today then the next 30 items for the computer you buy you will at least seriously consider or BUY a logitech.

Speaker companies in the mid-fi realm chances are are not going to sell you another speaker -- 1 because the buyer may keep the speakers 20 years and 2 if they go upscale they probably leave your brand anyway - so why really go the extra mile on service?

I remember talking to the owner of a GM car dealer who said thatthe best cars they sold in terms of not falling apart was the Chevy SPRINT and by a very wide margin. (confirmed by lemon-aid as well). He said that the average person buys about 10 cars in his her lifetime -- chances are the first car they buy will be a cheap car like a Sprint -- so they want to HOOK you on the brand with a relaile economical car that goes pretty good around the city. GM basically bought them all From Suzuki (who made the Swift).

Anyway, he said the WORST cars by a mile in the line-up was the Cadilac. they figure this is your LAST car and typically sell to retirees. It's loaded with surface niceties but is easily the worst put together highest profit margin car in their line-ups...they got your money and they know they are not getting any more. He told me that customer satisfaction across British Columbia for that vehicle was under 20% (this was 4 years ago so things may have changed). Yet the sprint was over 80% - still pathetic compared to Honda's 98% across the board.

A fellow not long ago here had tons of trouble with PSB and after badgering and internet postings they resolved it -- but really should it take all that? I worked at McDonalds and we'd have people come in saying that we forgot to put their fries in the bag. Some managers would get into an argument with the custmer asking for a receipt (which in a rush we probably forgot to give them). The customer would say he didn't get a receipt - so ten minutes of arguing goes by and the manager grudgingly give the guy his fries... or does not and the guy never goes back to McDonalds.

Me, I say sorry sir what size of fries did you order "a Small?" please take a large Fries and tasty a apple pie for your trouble. Sure maybe Mcdonalds got hosed out of this .25 cent cost to us for both items but on the other hand maybe we truly were in the wrong and we made this guy happy enough to not complain to anyone about his bad exoperience or better yet more than happy to say gee that McDonalds was pretty damn good to me.

I went to Tim Hortons - a donut restaurant that is HUGE in Canada. I asked for a Chile in a Bread bowl -- I ordered a combo $6.00 after tax. Anyway, they had no bread bowls for the Chile ready -- they said it would be about 7 minutes. I kinda frowned but said tht;s fine.. The manager comes over gives me all my money back hands me the cash and said the meal's on us. I am now writing this on this forum and maybe people want to go to Tim Hortons instead of KFC next time.

The cost of the stupid subwoofer to Paradigm or the speakers to PSB are a pittance -- deal with the service -- because a good experience people might talk about 1 in 10 -- but a bad experience will be talked about every time!!

HAVIC
06-03-2005, 11:34 AM
Speaker companies in the mid-fi realm chances are are not going to sell you another speaker -- 1 because the buyer may keep the speakers 20 years and 2 if they go upscale they probably leave your brand anyway - so why really go the extra mile on service?

RGA will this may be true word of mouth referrals and the internet can have a great impact on your business. The amount of information and misinformation on the web can cost a company millions.

remember the febreeze disaster, it was either an email or websites that said using febreeze will kill your pets. Febreeze spent millions of dollars on an ad campaign to show you that it is safe for your pets.

The internet is a very powerful medium and ALL companies need to realize this.


A fellow not long ago here had tons of trouble with PSB and after badgering and internet postings they resolved it -- but really should it take all that?

Wow not want I want to hear because PSB is the brand I went with, but because I was able to get brand new unblemished speakers a wholesale which was 40% below MSRP so I know that the cost for replacing Brianphoto's sub would not have cost Paradigm a thing. I;m sure even at the discount I got for the PSB's, they still made money.

maybe a customer service thread/forum could be started that tracks the way companies handle customer service to help people make decisions on the products that they are looking at. Just a thought

Greg

RGA
06-03-2005, 12:04 PM
Well I would not personally be put off by either paradigm or the PSB incident because even poor customer service can happen to comapnies noted as being good in this area -- maybe they have a temp employee in when the regular is on vacation and something gets screwed up -- bottom line is eventually PSB gave the guy a model up the line -- his cabinets came apart or something and like Paradigm had no replacement. basically divide a speaker by 10 that's about what it costs the manufacturer to build -- smaller makers are often lower in this regard not higher like some believe. My B&W 302 at $300.00 Cad I'd be surprised if it cost B&W more than $30.00 in parts - ditto for that speaker's competitors...and IMO it's worse in the higher models. You consider that the 302 costs roughly the same to ship to Canada that their N805 costs. The costs of physical materials and drivers even at a multiple of 10 which is unlikely would cost them $300.00 and the sepaker goes for $3k. I'm not surprised so many are turning to DIY. At least then with DIY you can buy real woods. Not that I think there is necessarily anything wrong with the speakers pricing BTW -- they are supplying the labour and "know-how" and the designing...If I had to buy all the equipment to build the DM 302 it would probably cost me more money buying the equipment -- and then without the design I may end up bulding a weaker sounding speaker -- but if these companies are not making at LEAST 50% mark-up over costs then why not sell clothes. My dealer has to have 25% to keep his doors open to cover overhead and employees and still make a buck. Bose is attractive to many because they're in the 70% range.

dave123456@mail.com
06-03-2005, 12:08 PM
Woochifer


if i buy a Red Ferrari and I have an engine problem send it to the dealer and they sdecide to give me a replacement loaded with dents and a pink door I'd be pretty choked



lol thats hilarious. I can imagine a pink door slipping past QC at the last minute ( probably due to a disgruntled temp worker) and then sent to you like everything is fine .

I also read what you wrote about Hondas. My first car was a 99 Black Civic dx coupe and I loved it. Great car. It was stolen so now I drive an 02 civic.

Woochifer
06-03-2005, 12:23 PM
RGA, PLEASE stop bringing up the car analogies. They just don't work, and the information you present is laughably out of date.

Chevy Sprint?! Are you kidding me? That thing went out of production in 1988, and you think it has ANY relevance to GM's current business model? Why don't you at least bring in some information that was at least current back in the 1990s?

GM's "lifecycle" marketing model where a consumer would come in as a youngster and buy a Chevy, move up to a Buick/Oldsmobile/Pontiac as the family grows, and eventually wind up in a Caddy for the golden years, was jettisoned a LONG time ago. Pretty much any business nowadays knows that they have to be adaptable and serve the needs of today's consumers, and not worry about what consumers will buy from them 20 years from now. Why do you think Cadillac is aggressively marketing to upper income 40somethings (basically the consumers who buy BMW, Lexus, and Mercedes)? The whole idea that there's some ruse to create reliable entry level products so that a company can rip the consumers off 40+ years from now when they retire is completely out of touch with today's business climate, which moves much more rapidly.

And while we're at it, let's look at the information that you're bringing up. The current JD Power survey debunks almost everything. Guess what, BMW and Mercedes have moved back into the top 10 on the latest IQS survey. The data that you're citing reflects the slide that began with those nameplates in the late-90s. The JD Power survey first flagged the quality problems with BMW and Mercedes more than five years ago, and that was eventually confirmed in the Consumer Reports reliability reports in subsequent years. These latest rankings indicate that they've reversed that trend with the current model year.

Buick and Cadillac are those GM nameplates that are supposed to have piss poor quality, y'know to rip off those retired bluehairs, right? Hmmm, GM must have done something wrong, because Buick and Cadillac are in the top 5, and have been there the last few years.

And Honda and Acura? They've slipped the last couple of years and are now right about at the industry average.

But, if you look at the overall average, you'll see that the automotive quality in general has improved dramatically since 1998. Suzuki (makers of your ultra high quality Sprint) ranked dead last in the 2005 IQS survey, yet their quality rating exceeded the industrywide average for every year prior to 2001. This should give you an idea that the entire industry has raised the bar.

http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005069

Brianphoto
06-03-2005, 12:25 PM
You guys are right about the whole customer service thing. Big companies may win on single customer issue but in the long run they lose. When I sent the sub back to Paradigm I had no idea that my version 1 was not available anymore and had been replaced with a version 2. I was quite happy with my version1 and do not need a version 2 model, but I offered to pay Paradigm the difference which would be about another 5-6 hundred dollars out of my own pocket. I am sure this would have covered the full manufacturing cost of a sub, it would not have cost them a thing really.

RGA
06-03-2005, 12:34 PM
Dave

I've had three cars in my life -- a 1990 Ford Escort -- which was ok for an American Car -- only had a few problems:

Driver seat broke so I had to sit a little sideways 73,000km
Wheel bearings needed replacement 70,000km
Automatic transmission need replacing $79,000km
Widow roller broke off --- replaced but windows would never roll all the way down again :rolleyes:
Engine failure at 101,000km

Yet what made me sell it was when I was racing my friends Hyandai Pony up a hill -- lets say it was not much of a race as he killed me. My car never liked hills.

Then I went to a GM Pontiac Grand Am 1994: I had it 16 months Ior thereabouts and had in the shop about 8 times with two brake replacements, an alternator, power door locks, power windows, paint peeling, passenger seat failing to lock onto place so pasenger would fly forward in heavy braking, cruise control failed, but hey the radio always worked. And don;t get me started on rattles -- the Lemon-aid had three pages JUST on fixing the rattles :o Ohh and if you tromped iot off the line the car veered left -- you know into on-coming traffic - and the ABS sucked. this was a car recommended by the Consumer Reports back int he day as well -- So much for reviews. I bought the car with 20,000km on it and sold it by 45,000km -- the straw that brioke it was hitting the back of another car at 4km and the front end practically fell off.

The I got fed up and bought a Honda Civic hatchback in 1996 -- I had it new for 3 years. Automatic. Emergency brake handle got looseso it rode up the shaft making it difficult to push the button. 5 minutes and some glue. Then i flooded the engine somehow so it would not start...I had to keep my foot fully depressed on the gas pedal while starting it...which was odd (they had to do it at the dealer though so it was a pain. But other than this 89,000km I sold it and it still had 30% on the pads and no problems no rattles no cheap plasticay crap -- even the dashboard had a soft rubber feel instead of the cheap hard palstic which always rattled in the Grand Am when you had the air-conditioner on.

Oh and the 4 cylinder Civic went up the Coquahala(A major freeway to kelown BC with killer hills) better than the V6 supposeldy more powerful GM.

I do have to say though that GM custmer service was always impeccable -- they're certainly experts -- probably because they never need to drum up business. My friend had a Beretta -- the computer chip went and cost her $1800.00...the dealer's repairman said that they all go and deliberately so --- that;s how they make their money -- same for the altenrators which were designed to run extra hot so that they would fail -- he suggested that one should neer run more than two items at a time -- so never run the air conditioner power windows and the radio all at once. :rolleyes:

Pat D
06-03-2005, 12:43 PM
RGA will this may be true word of mouth referrals and the internet can have a great impact on your business. The amount of information and misinformation on the web can cost a company millions.

remember the febreeze disaster, it was either an email or websites that said using febreeze will kill your pets. Febreeze spent millions of dollars on an ad campaign to show you that it is safe for your pets.

The internet is a very powerful medium and ALL companies need to realize this.



Wow not want I want to hear because PSB is the brand I went with, but because I was able to get brand new unblemished speakers a wholesale which was 40% below MSRP so I know that the cost for replacing Brianphoto's sub would not have cost Paradigm a thing. I;m sure even at the discount I got for the PSB's, they still made money.

maybe a customer service thread/forum could be started that tracks the way companies handle customer service to help people make decisions on the products that they are looking at. Just a thought

Greg
Now, now! Here we have a fellow who said he just got a subwoofer and it turns out he got it a couple of years ago and there was quite a hiatus before he notified Paradigm of the problem with the replacement. No wonder Paradigm seems rather sceptical. I wondered about his story from the beginning as it was the first version of the Paradigm Servo-15 and I couldn't figure out how he had "just" acquired it. I am still wondering if there is more he left out--in any case, he has a fully operational Servo-15, v. 1 with a minor cosmetic defect which is under the grille, for God's sake. I don't see a horror story here and so far my sympathies lie with Paradigm. From everything I've heard, Paradigm's service is very good.

As I recall, the PSB speaker had some of the veener come unglued. It was eventually replaced with a Stratus model, a line above what the customer had had. Just what the breakdown in communication was I was not sure at the time and it was pretty bad, but when Paul Barton heard about it, he sent him some Stratus Silvers.

I went ahead and got PSB Stratus Minis irrespective of the story because it really was the only story of dissatisfaction with PSB's service I had ever heard--and PSB resolved it well. After all, I had been listening to some very fine speakers by B & W, Dali, Sonus Faber, and others up to four times the price and the Stratus Minis seemed as good as they were and also had an overall balance giving a somewhat more distant perspective which I prefer for most recordings.

JSE
06-03-2005, 01:03 PM
My friend had a Beretta -- the computer chip went and cost her $1800.00...the dealer's repairman said that they all go and deliberately so --- that;s how they make their money -- same for the altenrators which were designed to run extra hot so that they would fail -- he suggested that one should neer run more than two items at a time -- so never run the air conditioner power windows and the radio all at once.


RGA, that's why I always get a kick out of your post, right or wrong. You almost always start your posts with good solid experiences and believable information and then.....

BAM!

You hit us with the conspiracy theory, delusional, far out, undocumented, magic dust testimonials. I've had 4 GM vehicles over the years and had only 1 alternator go out at about 130k miles. I also had a Corvette with a chip problem, mainly because I tampered with it. I was young and thought I needed to go faster. I think the chip was about $300 installed.

Anyway, Keep'um coming!

JSE

corwin99
06-03-2005, 01:10 PM
RGA, I also have to disagree with some of your car analogy there... take for example Mercedes, who have slipped in recent years, I agree, but they have one of the best (if not the best, but it is slipping) brand loyalty in the industry. Actually, their S-Class if I recall correctly, has better Brand Loyalty than any other line. I know many many mercedes owners that just buy one Benz after another, one of these people are my dear folks, who have owned 4 consecutive Benzes, and have felt that their most recent acquisition is not as nice as it should have been... At any rate, Cars aren't necessarily always upgraded, there are lateral upgrades as well. A person may move from a S-Class Sedan to an M-Class SUV because they find the G-Class ugly, but still want a Mercedes.

The AN/K Spe I recently picked up wouldn't really be considered an upgrade from the Gershman X-1/SW-1... but of course my purchase isn't the norm, since I do have more speakers than most people.

That Tim Horton's experience is quite cool actually. That leads me to another thing.. like you said about the bad day/timing situation, that could have just as easily gone the other way had you been at a difference Timmy's Franchise. My girlfriend used to work at a Timmy's that would NEVER do that. The Owner was far too cheap. Just like you could just have dealt with a Customer Service rep that was in a bad mood... or even perhaps with companies like Lenbrook who are distributors for many companies. They don't reflect the actual companies commitment, just perhaps poor management of personnel or something.

dave123456@mail.com
06-03-2005, 01:21 PM
The 99 Civic was my brothers, he bought it when it had 40,000 miles on it, and It was mine at about 90,000 miles. Not a damn thing wrong with it. The only thing I can remember them doing to it was changing the battery. I know 90k isnt awhole lot, but some companies can barelly do that. My moms S- 10 from the 80's, which was taken care of my mom drives like a farmer, crapped out at 100k at was struggling for many miles before that. My friends dads explorers transmission ( 00 Explorer) stopped working at around 90k as well. Mustangs, samething with these theyre junk. We now own 00 Monte Carlo at 60k miles that felt worse ( steering problems) than the civic at 90k. Im glad I never got the late 90's S-10 I had originally planned on buying. Im sure there are many American cars that go beyond 200k, but thats pretty rare.

GMichael
06-03-2005, 01:26 PM
Well sense this has turned into a car thread, my last car was a 1992 Mazda MX3-GS. Bought it new, drover it hard, sold it with 196K miles still running like new. The Acura I have now has 145K and still going. I've had several GM's Chevy, Old, Pontiac. They were OK. Most I got out of any of them was 130K.

Eric Z
06-03-2005, 01:34 PM
Very cool to hear about the positive customer service experiences. I agree that customer service has slipped dramatically in the past 5-7 years- the world is all about making the money up front! I liked the McDo example of the fries- it's pennies to McDonalds, but means tons to the customer. Same with the Tim Horton's experience- the cost of a frickin' bread bowl and chili is next to nothing.

I worked at a large department clothing store in high school and part of the training was, return anything! Even if someone brought in a noticeably worn pair of jeans- return it, or store credit without a receipt- the customers were so darn happy. Did some customers take advantage of it? Of course they did, but a pair of jeans or button down dress shirts once in a while didn't affect their profits too much!

Nice to hear the positive stories of customer service.

JSE
06-03-2005, 02:40 PM
Well, hopefully all those people interested in Paradigm "SPEAKER" customer service issues will know to look in the Off-Topic forum? :confused: Oy!

JSE

RGA
06-03-2005, 05:01 PM
I emailed Paradigm for info on a bass driver for a speaker 13 years old, and their response was they had no idea which driver I should use or what they could supply me.

All I can say is I'm glad it was only a $500 pair of speakers, and that I got 13 years out of them!

Plain and simple, they s@@k when it comes to customer service!

Well like I said before many of these companies are not interested in you or what they sell. OR it may be that the one person you contacted was a chowderhead - I wonder which side of the country paradigm's plant is located at -- I always had a tougher time dealing with people in the Eastern part of the countyr fro some reason.

The strange thing about your situation is that I don't recall Paradigm changing ownership so they should have all the designs of prior models on hand.

My Wharfedale speakers stopped selling in 1993 and the company had been bought and sold twice over the period since. Anyway a couple years back I e-mailed them about my Vanguards. Anyway the guy there sent me in the MAIL from England at their expense the oiginal advertising bochure and the specs of my speakers (photocopied) but not bad. I tried to get the same from Sugden and they were going to charge me 13 GBP or just over $30.00Cdn.

My current speakers keep measurements of all the drivers because all they match by hand and to the computer to very tight tolerance -- so they keep the serial number on file and the measurments of the speaker so if you should poke your finger through the woofer all they need is the serial number and they can tune their woofer so that it will match the driver in the other loudspeaker and they do it for life. Rolls Royce used to do the same thing with their dashboards and other wood trims -- so if half gets wrecked they had the exact cut of wood to match with your wood. this kind of effoprt takes some time and it does get added to the price of the product - but you don;t get the "duh I don;t know what woofer we used in one of our speakers" routine.

dave123456@mail.com
06-03-2005, 11:04 PM
I went ahead and got PSB Stratus Minis irrespective of the story because it really was the only story of dissatisfaction with PSB's service I had ever heard--and PSB resolved it well. After all, I had been listening to some very fine speakers by B & W, Dali, Sonus Faber, and others up to four times the price and the Stratus Minis seemed as good as they were and also had an overall balance giving a somewhat more distant perspective which I prefer for most recordings.

I also own the Stratus Mini's, and I also enjoy their dark midrange and mellow ( somewhat cut off) highs. My cd collection has a lot of not so good recordings, lots of pop and rock, so not having everything upfront is a good thing imo. At first I was having a lot of problems with my system, but after some placement and room acoustics changes ive realized these are pretty good speakers. I still havent gotten these speakers to sound exactly how I want them, but im guessing after more work to the room then they will become much more enjoyable.

Pat D
06-04-2005, 06:35 AM
I also own the Stratus Mini's, and I also enjoy their dark midrange and mellow ( somewhat cut off) highs. My cd collection has a lot of not so good recordings, lots of pop and rock, so not having everything upfront is a good thing imo. At first I was having a lot of problems with my system, but after some placement and room acoustics changes ive realized these are pretty good speakers. I still havent gotten these speakers to sound exactly how I want them, but im guessing after more work to the room then they will become much more enjoyable.
I particularly was impressed with their smooth performance with massed upper strings, better than most speakers. They sounded very nice on all sorts of music, and still do, whether full orchestra, male and female vocals, mixed chorus, piano, harpsichord, guitar. They really are a first class speaker and seem to have no significant faults, things that one notices while listening to them.

PSB informed me that there has been a minor crossover modification since the review in Stereophile, but I doubt if it changed the highs. In any case, their measurements indicate a very flat response (for a speaker) which declines very gently. The high frequencies are certainly there, but not as prominently as with many.

http://stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/629/index4.html

Yes, the upper treble (triangles, tinkly bells, and so on are not as prominent as with many other good speakers. On some recordings, a somewhat more forward presentation is nice but with others this can sound colored or unnatural. My Quad preamp has its Tilt control rather than conventional bass and treble controls, but I suspect a little touch to the treble control would bring up the extreme highs, if desired for some recordings. Had I wanted a somewhat more forward balance, I could have gotten the B & W 705 (they work well with a subwoofer) or the Paradigm Signature S2 (and might have had I been able to get one in for a direct comparison).

My speakers are placed about 20 inches from the rear wall, which is where the balance with male voices seems best, and about 3 feet from the side walls. The speakers are about 7 feet apart and the center listening position is a bout 9.5 feet from the speakers. They re toed in some but I can still see the "inside" side of the speakers from the center listening position (much as the owners manual suggests!), which seems to give me the smoothest presentation of the massed strings on some recordings. The room set up is a bit peculiar and can't much be helped. The equipment cabinet (open, no glass doors) is on the left side wall but all there is on the right is a large overstuffed chair. A room friendly speaker with a wide and even dispersion, like the Stratus Mini, can take this in stride.

Eric Z
06-06-2005, 11:30 AM
i know this isn't the "share your personal car story" section of an automobile forum, but thought i'd share because it goes with what some have talk about before- basic can be better.

my wife's family bought a ford festiva in the mid-80s so all their kids (6 of them) can learn a manual trans and just take short drives to and from work (they paid about $5K for it). it finally died with 280K miles- about 15 years old. the only major repair was the clutch.

talk about getting your money's worth!