On Dual Discs...

[J*E*Cole]

I had to try one of these new Dual Discs, and the only slightly palatable one I could justify so far was the new Dave Matthews, "Stand Up", which is a "Let Down." Except for the sound itself. I haven't listened to the PCM side, but the DVD side does sound really good. I'm happy that at least there is this something out there that's a good recording from the get go, however the album itself is pretty disappointing. With the exception of about 4 tracks, the rest are really kinda flat, not really bad, but flat. Anyhoo, what do you think of the new Dual Discs?, have you come across any GOOD ones yet? Please tell.

[newtrix1]

I had to try one of these new Dual Discs, and the only slightly palatable one I could justify so far was the new Dave Matthews, "Stand Up", which is a "Let Down." Except for the sound itself. I haven't listened to the PCM side, but the DVD side does sound really good. I'm happy that at least there is this something out there that's a good recording from the get go, however the album itself is pretty disappointing. With the exception of about 4 tracks, the rest are really kinda flat, not really bad, but flat. Anyhoo, what do you think of the new Dual Discs?, have you come across any GOOD ones yet? Please tell.

I've seen these too, in fact I was considering the new Dave Mathews on a recent trip to CC (it was one of the $9.99 cd's). Anyhow, my question is regarding the DVD layer, is it DVD-A (i.e. hi-res audio), or is the DVD layer DVD video content?

[kexodusc]

I love DualDisc, if nothing else, it's a small, small step forward after years of stagnancy. I only have 6 DualDiscs I think, but 4 of them have DVD-A layers. I think the Top 40 stuff is less likely to have a DVD-A layer from what I've seen, but that's okay, even the now aging Dolby Digital in 5.1 sounds much better than CD Audio.
My only complaint is that these could all be hi-rez, and they're not...but ya can't have it all.

[Dave918]

Picked up 4 DualDiscs so far:

Greatest Hits / Lee Ann Womack

The Girl In The Other Room / Diana Krall

...Something To Be / Rob Thomas

All That We Let In / Indigo Girls

I've enjoyed them all, except for the Rob Thomas disk which I should have passed on. The rest have excellent content and recording quality IMO, with 'The Girl In The Other Room' edging out the others. Only issue that I have experienced is that slot-loaded players will not read them. That rules out the car player, but I wouldn't use one of these in the car anyway – That’s what CD-Rs and the iPod are for. Picked these up primarily for the DVD side.

I don't give this format much of a chance of making it because of all the reported problems have scared off a lot of buyers and because neither side truly conform to established standards, but it has been interesting giving them a try.

-Dave

[kexodusc]

Yeah, both of my slot-loaded players have no problem accepting these...I have an ancient discman that I pulled out of the garage just to test this out, and sure enough it didn't read it...I think this was straight out of 1992 though, so maybe that was expecting a bit much...

I have little doubt this format will survive...95% of players work fine, and they're cheap to make and they present an aweful lot of value added to the consumer.

An interesting side-note though, I spent 3 hours on a flight yesterday talking with a Sony sales-rep (in the record sales business) about the new formats. He actually mentioned that the biggest hurdle to SACD and DualDisc (and I assume DVD-A too) isn't the lack of consumer demand or titles, but that the average music store manage is a mid to late 30 year-old woman who simply keeps ordering the CD version because it's less work at the store end. He confirmed my suspicions that Sony at least is heavily considering abandonning the CD format altogether in favor or hybrid SACD's or DualDisc.
This IMO, is the best way for either format to survive. Time will tell. We're way to early in all of these to judge whether they'll stick around - the music industry's been focused on suing 12 year old girls for piracy instead of improving the product in a tougher entertainment marketplace.

[Dave918]

You may be right on the future of DualDisk kexodusc, I was just stating my opinion. They certainly do offer more bang for the buck. Concerning certain players not being able to read DualDisks, I have two slot-load players (in my vehicle, a 2002 Dodge Ram factory in-dash, and my iMac G5) and neither can read the CD side. However, the iMac G5 can read the DVD side. My other players (Music Hall CD25, Jolida JD100A, and Pioneer Elite DV-45Ai) and my Power Mac Dual G5 read them just fine.

-Dave

[ForeverAutumn]

I haven't ventured into the dual disk realm yet. Frankly, I just haven't seen a CD released on it yet that I've wanted to spend an additional $5 - $6 on to have the DVD side.

My new car comes equipped with a 6 CD changer. The manual specifically states to stay away from non-traditional sized CDs and CDRs with paper labels on them. I'm not sure whether non-traditional is referring to dual disks or to something like a mini-disk. But since most of my listening is done in my car, I'm hesitant to try a dual disk.

[kexodusc]

FA: $5-$6? Here in cheapo New Brunswick they're priced the same or $2 more...
Good point about the changer...though if it'll play a CD it should play anything...Can't say I blame you for erring on the side of caution. I know firsthand how hard a car company will blame you for inserting non-spec cd's into the slot to avoid warranty. Had that happen with an Incubus Enhanced CD a few years back, and I was a Honda employee :mad:

[ForeverAutumn]

FA: $5-$6? Here in cheapo New Brunswick they're priced the same or $2 more...
Good point about the changer...though if it'll play a CD it should play anything...Can't say I blame you for erring on the side of caution. I know firsthand how hard a car company will blame you for inserting non-spec cd's into the slot to avoid warranty. Had that happen with an Incubus Enhanced CD a few years back, and I was a Honda employee :mad:

Hmmmm. It would appear that I'm living in the wrong province. :(

[Olivertmc]

Newtrix1,

The dvd side is called an "enhanced stereo mix". What that is, I can't really tell you. It isn't DVD-A, and it isn't DTS, DD, or any other format I know of. It comes through as PCM, and it sounds fine (nothing too special). There is some interesting dvd content that you may enjoy. In fact, watching the "making of" documentary on the dvd side of the dual disc greatly increased my enjoyment of the album and understanding of what they were trying to accomplish.

All in all, the album, musically, is decent. It is growing on me, but it will never be a favorite.

[kexodusc]

Olivertmc: Dolby Digital's 2.0 codec is the PCM info on the DVD side. It's 48 kHz sampling rate, 20 or 24 bit resolution, my understanding is usually the 24 bit. The extra sampling rate does help a fair bit but it's not as good as say DTS 24 bit 96 kHz or DVD-A's MLP. Better than cd audio.

[Slosh]

Olivertmc: Dolby Digital's 2.0 codec is the PCM info on the DVD side.
That makes no sense whatsoever. DD is a lossy bitstream format. I don't have any DualDiscs but I have plenty of concert DVDs with Dolby Digital and 20/48 or 24/48 LPCM and in every case they sound a lot better than Dolby Digital.

Dolby licenses MLP and sometimes markets it as their own, but unless the stereo track is 24/192 there really isn't a reason to use MLP. Standard DVD video 24/96 stereo doesn't need compression.

DualDisc tries to be too many things for too many applications. A jack of all trades but a master of none. IMO hybrid SACD got it right by focusing on the audio only.

[kexodusc]

That makes no sense whatsoever. DD is a lossy bitstream format. I don't have any DualDiscs but I have plenty of concert DVDs with Dolby Digital and 20/48 or 24/48 LPCM and in every case they sound a lot better than Dolby Digital.

Dolby licenses MLP and sometimes markets it as their own, but unless the stereo track is 24/192 there really isn't a reason to use MLP. Standard DVD video 24/96 stereo doesn't need compression.

.

My bad...did a bit more looking into it...dualdiscs shoul have as a minimum a 24 bit, 48 kHz LPCM (lossless) format, however you occasionally you get the odd horrible release like Dave Matthew's new one that's 16-bit 48kHz sampling rate...don't know why, that might be a 1% improvement over CD in some recordings...maybe.

There's also Dolby's stuff on there (5.1 and 2.0 in some cases).



DualDisc tries to be too many things for too many applications. A jack of all trades but a master of none. IMO hybrid SACD got it right by focusing on the audio only.

That's probably why SACD is the overwhelming success that it is.

The problem with the relatively minimally improved resolution on DualDisc has absolutely nothing to do with the format or the DualDisc forum at all. Recommendations were made by the DVD-A proponents to use hi-rez. The record companies are chosing otherwise in their infinite wisdom, much like they've chosen not to adopt Hybrid SACD as the standard format. While you and I might not like it, I guess the majority of people just don't care and want the supposed "value-added" video content at the expense of hi-rez audio.

I don't really care at this point. I have several DualDiscs now, they all have significantly better than Dolby or CD audio on them, and multi-channel capability. For $1 or $2 more, it's a no brainer. We can sit and ***** that it's not SACD or 192/48 DVD-A till the cows come home, I'd rather enjoy the better sound that is available in the meantime.

[Slosh]

I'd rather enjoy the better sound that is available in the meantime.Me too. That's why I have a turntable :D

Actually, I probably would buy a DualDisc album if I could find something I like with a hi-rez track that I don't already own on another format. Of course, I've been saying the same thing about SACD and DVD-A for three years . . . . . :(

[kexodusc]

Me too. That's why I have a turntable :D
Agreed :D


Actually, I probably would buy a DualDisc album if I could find something I like with a hi-rez track that I don't already own on another format. Of course, I've been saying the same thing about SACD and DVD-A for three years . . . . . :(
Agreed :(

[hmmmm]

Just bought my first DualDisc. ACDC. It sounded great in my Denon DVD 2200.
I had to mow the lawn so I threw it in my Sony Sports Discman (about 4 months old) and it didn't work the first time. I pressed start again and it played perfectly. Later, I took the disk out and it had a perfect "circle" scratch on the DVD side from the portable disc player. That stinks! I did play through some of the dvd side but haven't had the time to see if it will skip. Anyway, I think the dualdisk is pretty cool. I just won't play it in the Sony anymore.